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Adam……..Amen brother…….> Just trust God He is giving you the true understanding and it is oblivious Nick does not understand what he is quoting with regards to preexistence of Jesus.You have the deeper spiritual understanding God has given it to you, don't let mens opinions cause you to stumble. Trust in God Alone like Jesus Did and He will continually guide you .
love and peace to you and yours……….gene
Hi brother Gene,
Thanks for that I can tell you one thing here God is using you, Jerry , Mandy and few others who are having different understanding than many in this forum. I learnt many things from all of you especially unlearning of many old things like Trinity, preexistence, free will myth, eternal torment myth so on and soforth.
Thanks for all your encouragement in my life.
AdamHi GM,
The Son of Man is saying this.
Scripture even calls him the man from heaven.1Cor15
47The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.He is a man, and he is also from heaven.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2008,08:03) God begat a man-son in heaven before the worlds were? What happen to him begetting a spirit-son?
MandyAgreed. Yeshua could not have been a man in heaven.
Men are also flesh and blood. Yeshua is the man from heaven when he left heaven and took on the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fasion as a man. Phil 2
This is why he could not have been a Son before he was born a Son. Then ironically they say he was born again in the ressurection.
NH believes that Yeshua in the begining before all things, was born a Son (man) then he believes he was born again through Mary, then he believes he was born again at the Jordan, and then he believes he was born again in the ressurection. Thats 4 times Yeshua was born.
Sounds like reincarnation to me. Yehshua basically evolved to what he is today.
Therefore he was either the Word that was with God and was God, or the Henotheist and Arians would be better off being Unitarian. IMHO
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 01 2008,08:03) God begat a man-son in heaven before the worlds were? What happen to him begetting a spirit-son?
Hi Mandy,
Good question to Nick.He believes a son of man lives in heaven prior to Jesus' birth on earth.Hi WJ,
You say“Men are also flesh and blood. Yeshua is the man from heaven when he left heaven and took on the likeness of sinful flesh and was found in fasion as a man. Phil 2
This is why he could not have been a Son before he was born a Son.”False logic
The sons of God are not all men.Genesis 6:2
That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Genesis 6:4
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.
Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?Quote (gollamudi @ July 03 2008,03:34) Hi Nick,
Who are these 'sons of God mentioned' above who had sex with daughters of men?
Adam They were Angels. That is why you had hybrids on the earth who were Giants.
Peace and Love IreneHi GM,
They may be the same as the rebellious angels written of elsewhere.
2 Peter 2:4
For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Jude 1:6
And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.Thanks for sharing on that, many interpret the verse in Gen 6 as some angels who came and had sex with human daughters. But I wanted to know whether this belief is correct?
Quote (david @ Aug. 22 2008,11:37) Quote Well, if being a Son of God did not equate to being equal to God, then why was that a reason to crucify him? 
–WJ.
Are you siding with the Pharisees?
Was any of this a reason to kill him? The pharisees may have equated the two, but they weren't very smart were they?
Being that many are called sons of God, (angels, Adam' etc), if Jesus actually claimed to be God it is unthinkable he would not be charged with this.
Hi davidQuote (david @ Aug. 22 2008,11:37)
Are you siding with the Pharisees?No. I am siding with John and his testimony. John writes…
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:17, 18
I have no reason not to believe John who was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write these words, especially when John does not correct them or say they are lying. John’s interpretation of their words and actions is that claiming to be “The Son of God” was claiming to be equal to God in the mind of the Jew.
This is why they said…
The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. John 19:7
John also remembers Yeshua's words that give him equality with the Father when he writes…
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. vs. 7
The very next vs. John writes…
Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God. John 5:18
Was there any Prophet, Priest, or King before Yeshua that could say…?
“My Father worketh hitherto, and I work“.Then John writes…
but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
Then John remembers the next vs…
So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. ESV
Contextually the argument could be made that Yeshua's statements…
My Father worketh hitherto, and I work. vs. 17
and
For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise. vs. 19
are claiming equality with the Father.
No one before or after could make these claims! These statements seem to shock the Jews to the core.
Quote (david @ Aug. 22 2008,11:37) Was any of this a reason to kill him?
I don’t think so, but I am not an unbelieving Jew. The evidence in those passages seem to add validity to the Jew’s claim though, and surely infuriated them. Yeshua’s claim as “The Son of God” and the fact that he could do whatever he sees the Father do is an amazing claim wouldn’t you say?Quote (david @ Aug. 22 2008,11:37) The pharisees may have equated the two, but they weren't very smart were they?
The scriptures do not say they were Pharisees. Simply saying “but they weren't very smart were they?” is no reason to deny the scriptures that clearly show that to the Jew claiming to be “The Son of God” was claiming to be equal to God. These are Johns own words inspired by the Holy Spirit.Quote (david @ Aug. 22 2008,11:37) Being that many are called sons of God, (angels, Adam' etc), if Jesus actually claimed to be God it is unthinkable he would not be charged with this.
david, I personally challenge you to find one scripture where anyone other that Yeshua is called “The Son of God”.Before you get all excited about Luke 3:38, the words “the son” for Adam was added and not in the manuscripts. As far as your claim about angels being considered “sons of God” is ambiguous, and still does not make them “The Son of God”, but then we know what you believe about angels and Yeshua don’t we?
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ,
No doubt Jesus, the Son of God, was given functional equality with God, his Father.
But as such he was shown not to always have been equal in every way having to be GIVEN these things.Heb7
7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 23 2008,08:29) Hi WJ,
No doubt Jesus, the Son of God, was given functional equality with God, his Father.
But as such he was shown not to always have been equal in every way having to be GIVEN these things.Heb7
7And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
NHJust what in the world does it mean to you that someone could be considered “equal” to an infinitely powerfull, omnipresent, and omniscient God?
WJ
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