The son begotten when?

[GeneBalthrop]

To All…………Heb 13:21……> MAKE YOU PERFECT IN EVERY GOOD WORK TO DO HIS WILL, (WORKING) IN YOU THAT WHICH IS WELL PLEASING IN (HIS)SITE, THROUGH JESUS CHRIST; TO WHOM BE GLORY FOREVER AND EVER. AMEN

Well so much for “FREE” Wheller's right?

peace and love to you all…………………………..gene

[Lightenup]

Quote (davidbfun @ July 22 2010,01:22)

Quote (davidbfun @ July 23 2010,00:05) Quote (Lightenup @ July 22 2010,20:39) Quote (Lightenup @ July 16 2010,23:40) Quote (davidbfun @ July 16 2010,20:29) Quote (Lightenup @ July 15 2010,19:02) Quote (davidbfun @ July 14 2010,18:40) Hi Kathi, Jesus was face to face with his physical mother Mary and what did he call her but “Woman” (John 2.4) so does that mean that we can not call Mary his mother?   In another instance he didn't recognize her presence but said, “Who is my mother…” (Mt 12.46+; Mk 3) In Lu 2:48-9 Look at his response to her direct questioning of her being anxious and worrying:   And He said to them, “Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father's house?” He did not call God his Father YHVH either so what does this mean? Everybody else on this site says this is the name of God so why didn't he use it (rhetorical). I still call the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit, but I recognize that SHE is probably the one who bore Jesus, NOT God the Father.  And if she bore Jesus what would you call her?  Mother! David David, Are you really contending that Mary was not the 'mother' of Jesus but instead the 'woman' of Jesus.  Truly I do not think that you doubt that Mary, who gave birth to Jesus was as someone other than His mother.  Why do you act like Jesus didn't ever call her mother? Are you insinuating that a goddess came upon Mary to conceive.  I think you are trying too hard here.  I'm done with this goddess holy spirit essence that you can not find in the scriptures.  The Holy Spirit is 'of' the Father not with the Father. Maybe I will discuss another topic with you but I don't buy your take on this one…sorry. Hi Kathi, No, I am NOT contending that Mary was not the mother of Jesus, she was.  All I was trying to point out is how he addressed her.  In our society today it would be very chauvanistic and belittling the treatment he gave her.  Look at how odd Jesus' response is in Luke. Luke 11:27-28 While Jesus was saying these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed.” But He said, “On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it.” I was trying to make a comparison of how anonymous Mary was to the anonymity of The Holy Spirit…neither one receiving glory or praise. What the angel reported to Mary was that which is about to come upon you is of the Holy Spirit (which is a feminine noun). So…. Is the Holy Spirit, God? Yes or No! I am sorry that this topic angers you.  I'll try not to bring it up again to you unless you ask. I'm trying to be in unity with the Holy Spirit and my brethren at this site.  But also I am trying to share the truth as I know it….and in writing it is a bit tougher than in person using words. David Hi Davidbfun, I'm sorry that I sounded angry, I just do not see the scriptural support for which your have shared in nearly every post that you have made and it concerns me that you are writing a book, I assume, about this theory.  Maybe your book is of something else, idk. Regarding the anonymity of the Holy Spirit (which is a neuter noun in the Greek as you know), if the Holy Spirit is the spirit within the Father, then every time the Father is praised and glorified and worshiped, so is the spirit within Him.  That is why the Spirit is not singled out as one of three in the many verses that I recently posted.  The Spirit is as much a part of the Father as His very mind, as I understand it.  It is unnecessary to say, for instance, The Father and His mind is on the throne.  That is obvious.  I think it is the same as the Spirit.  The Spirit can be considered as the 'inner person' of the Father but not a seperate, equal person.  Our inner person does not require a separate introduction when we introduce ourselves to someone.  If we are acknowledged, then our inner person is also acknowledged.  I do believe that our inner person is a masculine term in the Greek not that it should give support to a doctrine that the inner person has a particular gender.  It seems to me that the inner person would take on the gender of the outer person. If my aunt were laying in a casket at her funeral, it could be said of her that she was not there but with the Lord.  If my uncle were laying in a casket at his funeral, it could be said of him that he was not there but with the Lord.  Do you see my point? The Father's 'inner person' has a very unique ability to remain within the Father and unite with the Son's and the believer's spirit to form one spirit. You are right about being limited in how we can express ourselves through the written word when body language and tone of our voice adds much more fullness. I would like it if you would address my two posts on the preceding page with all the verses that do not include the Holy Spirit. Thanks! Hi Davidbfun, I have bumped this post in case you missed it.  I would really like you to read the verses which I will place here from the post that I refer to. Quote I really do not see the teaching in scriptures that the Holy Spirit is the 'Mother' of Jesus.  When I read these scriptures below, if the Holy Spirit was equally the Mother of the Son of God as the Father is the Father of the Son of God, why is the Holy Spirit not mentioned in most if not all of these along with the Father? Matt 24:36 36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. NASU John 5:23 23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. NASU John 5:26 26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; NASU John 6:40 40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” NASU John 6:46 46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. NASU 1 John 2:23-24 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. NASU 2 John 3 3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. NASU 2 John 9 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. NASU Please let me know your thoughts David…thanks! Blessings, Kathi Hi Kathi, Yes I missed it, sorry. I will split up my responses, ok? I am getting flack for responding about God being male and female but since you asked I will respond dealing with the gender issue. Elohim = God (noun, masc & fem, singular) YHVH = masc entity Holy Spirit = fem entity. Simple direct answer to your questions….No, the Holy Spirit is not listed as “Mother” in Scripture. My comment comes from logic and nothing else. Starting with the Thread…son begotten when??? Begetting = to sire, to father vs birthing, bringing forth By definition beget is the action done by the male to impregnate. Birthing is done by the female to bring forth into existence the offspring. If the Father impregnates who brings forth the child?  The Mother, no? So, if YHVH is God the Father who is the other part of Elohim that is “The Female”? The Holy Spirit… and she brings forth the “son of God” (Elohim) Now if we can see YHVH as God, the Father why not see the Holy Spirit as God, the Mother? Elohim = {YHVH, Holy Spirit} The Holy Spirit is a feminine noun and if Mary was “come upon” by the Holy Spirit who was it? God, the Holy Spirit!  Now unfortunately this “God” is feminine so what does that make her? Goddess…sorry.  What did the Holy Spirit put into Mary?  The son of God.  Phil 2:7 he emptied himself and took on the form of man-servant…becoming “The son of Man”. What physical form did he empty himself from? Angelic body.  Angels don't die so Jesus had to empty himself from an indestructible body so he could die obediently. Man has now the ability to do in-vitro fertilization, which is essentially what the Holy Spirit did with the son of God in order for him to become the son of Man. David Hi Kathi, Re: your aunt & uncle's casket….. Lu 23:46 “Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT.” Jesus died and his spirit was immediately in Heaven with his Father while his body went into a tomb. Specifically showing that the Body and Spirit are not the same entities but make up the ONE person who has two separate identities. Unlike Jesus who resurrected his own body with his spirit our spirits will be given a new, uncorruptible body, hallelujah. If by your definition that God is omnipresent how could YHVH be God? He is physically sitting on a throne and Jesus is at His right hand….not to mention he walked in the Garden with Adam and Eve.  And what about Scripture that says God is Spirit? Or is the Scripture specifically addressing one of the three entities (Elohim, YHVH, Holy Spirit) and with our pre-conceived thoughts place the wrong entity in the Scripture? The above concepts are all correct depending on which aspect of Elohim you are addressing. God (YHVH) is sitting on a throne and God (Holy Spirit) is spirit. Again this is why I keep defining Elohim and El. It helps to look at Elohim as the WHOLE and YHVH and Holy Spirit as subsets.  YHVH alone doesn't make up Elohim, nor does the Holy Spirit but together they do.  And putting the Holy Spirit inside of YHVH you have eliminated Her. I agree with you Kathi about my spirit being of the same gender as I am….as “it” is within me.  However, the Holy Spirit is not inside YHVH but is inside Elohim and is a separate entity from YHVH. A small part of her is inside YHVH just as the “Comforter” is inside us…but as an omnipresent infinite being she is everywhere.  By compressing her and placing her within the confines of YHVH is a misconception.  She is everywhere all of the time…YHVH is limited on His throne. YHVH in His physical form is limited to the space He occupies whereas the Holy Spirit is omnipresent. So, by placing an infinite being (HS) within a finite being (YHVH)and then say that the infinite being no longer exists outside the body is the same as putting the holy Spirit in YHVH and eliminating her existence altogether. I have been reading a lot how people here think that the Holy Spirit is Intellect or the mind within YHVH….again denying the Holy Spirit.  What is the only unpardonable sin? Talk to you later, Kathi, God sweetly bless you, David

Hi Davidbfun,
Thanks for your time in answering my post. I do believe that you have to establish that the Holy Spirit is a separate person before you identify what gender the Holy Spirit is. Why don't we talk about that in this thread, if you don't mind.

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….ghtenup

You might want to copy and paste your recent posts to me there. Thanks

[JustAskin]

For goodness sake, LU, stop encouraging him with this foolish “God is Male/Female” thing!!!

[Lightenup]

JA,
If you have been following along, I am not encouraging the male/female thing, I am trying to help him out of it.

[JustAskin]

LU,
Please hurry then. It feels quizzy….!!! he's all over the forum with it…seems its the only thing he can talk about…

[shimmer]

David; I have replied here

https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….;st=280

[shimmer]

Quote (davidbfun @ July 23 2010,06:03)

1 Cor 12:3 … no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.

But many will say Lord Lord, and He never knew them.

Quote

There are (7) fruits of the spirit.  (Galatians 5:22) 1-Love 2-Joy 3-Peace 4-Patience 5-Kindness 6-Goodness 7-Faithfulness

How people appear in public or on a forum such as this, they can display all those things but inside be ravenous wolves! What do they desire? Fame, attention, love, who are they serving….what is really in it for them? What are the true motives? So all the fruits of the Spirit must be seen by others both in personal as well as public and be seen to have grown over time, and to have lasted (a true friend is never a true friend unless you've known them well over a year; and they are still your friend).

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (davidbfun @ July 22 2010,01:22)

YHVH in His physical form is limited to the space He occupies whereas the Holy Spirit is omnipresent. So, by placing an infinite being (HS) within a finite being (YHVH)and then say that the infinite being no longer exists outside the body is the same as putting the holy Spirit in YHVH and eliminating her existence altogether.

So let me see if I understand?

YHVH is a finite being but the Holy Spirit is infinite?

So the Holy Spirit is greater than YHVH because the Holy Spirit can be everywhere but YHVH cannot?

I have been here a long time and thought I had heard just about everything, but this one takes the cake!

WJ

[davidbfun]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 24 2010,09:30)

Quote (davidbfun @ July 22 2010,01:22) YHVH in His physical form is limited to the space He occupies whereas the Holy Spirit is omnipresent. So, by placing an infinite being (HS) within a finite being (YHVH)and then say that the infinite being no longer exists outside the body is the same as putting the holy Spirit in YHVH and eliminating her existence altogether. So let me see if I understand? YHVH is a finite being but the Holy Spirit is infinite? So the Holy Spirit is greater than YHVH because the Holy Spirit can be everywhere but YHVH cannot? I have been here a long time and thought I had heard just about everything, but this one takes the cake! WJ

Hi WJ, and to those that wonder if I can address any other subject than….forget it I'm not going there (thank God!)

Good, your mind is being expanded, maybe.  haha

And I love German Chocolate (cake).

Please don't speak for me (lol)….I never said anything about one being greater than the other.  Only that they were different. Finite and infinite….and I tried to explain the two.  

I am finding that many don't believe the Bible, or maybe how it is written, or they just believe parts; or we just understand it differently.  Thus a reason for a forum.

For example 1 John 4:8 says that God is love.

To me:  God IS love.  To others:  God can't be love because if He was then he wouldn't allow all the bad things to happen, etc….

Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit…

Are there TWO entities here?  Yes or No.
What are they?  Body and spirit.

Now of course there will be an argument of whether they are talking about God or Man…so, I'll address both:

If God:

God has both body and spirit.

If Man:  

Man has both body and spirit.

Comments:

#1- Our spirits are limited (finite) to the confines of our (finite) physical bodies as they fit into us and are not everywhere (infinite), whereas God is everywhere: omnipresent.

#2- Now concerning the “If God” part:  No one is going to agree with what I will write because everyone has a different God, but here goes.

There are only THREE choices in Eph 4:4 for God (YHVH): (Here's where tangents take off explaining other choices in OTHER SCRIPTURE…..notice I said, “in Eph 4:4”)

#1- If God (YHVH) has a body then the body is physical and finite!!  And if there is a spirit inside of this physical body then that spirit is finite!!

#2- If God is only spirit then He has no physical body and the spirit is infinite…thereby negating what is written…body AND spirit.

#3- God is body AND spirit.  Who is in charge?

Some that choose #3 will say that the spirit is only a part of the body and the body is in charge.  How do you have a finite being have an infinite spirit?  Wouldn't it be the other way around, the infinite being having within its confines a finite being?

IF God doesn't have both body and spirit there are many “confusions” in the Bible…I listed a few below.

John 4:24 God is spirit…
John 1:18; 1 Jn 4:12 No one has seen God at any time;

Genesis 3: God (YHVH) walked with Adam and Eve…and they hid…

If God has a physical body how is the following possible?:

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. (How is He “IN” us all?)

If God doesn't have a physical body how can He go out from the presence of David, and then take (a separate being) the HS from him?

Ps 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

Luk 4:1  Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness.

Luke 12:12 for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say.”

For those that believe that the HS is a force from YHVH then the “force” doesn't have a will of its own, so why identify it?  And then identify it as God?   And if God is spirit why is there a spirit inside of a spirit?

Unless you have TWO separate entities Holy Spirit and YHVH the word battles will go on indefinitely…and no agreement can be made.

If you can agree on TWO separate entities then the beginning of wisdom, knowledge and understanding can occur. And more to come….

IF YHVH has a finite physical body THEN He cannot be omnipresent.  And if He is not omnipresent He cannot be onmiscient or know everything that is going on.  And if He is not omnipresent and omniscient how is He, “God”?

If He was physically present with Adam and Eve who was “present” in the omnipresent sense and controlling the universe?

The “IF” “THEN” statements could go on and on.

The Bible makes it clear that there are TWO separate entities with separate purposes if you want to see them.  If not then you will place the Holy Spirit inside of another spirit and have a psychotic God…or a manifestation of psychosis. Or, you will have an infinite being (Holy Spirit) inside a limited physical being YHVH.

Oh, yes and then we have spiritualism:  God is spirit until He makes a manifestation….who buys this one?

If you have God, the Father, giving birth it is because He is like a worm that produces asexually.  He BOTH begets and bears.

And addressing the thread, it is a trick question…we don't know when the son was “imprenated” (begotten; process of  fathering), we only know when he was born.

The OVERALL problem we will have here is if there aren't any definition of the words we use, especially if you don't know which God (El or Elohim) you are talking about; what you read or write won't make sense and be logical.

I have tried to define words and the people don't like it.  They'd prefer to use ambiguous terms that they can change whenever they want to, like Jesus:  Son of God (Fully Man; Fully God).  Fortunately only one out of many believe that Jesus is God here at hn.

People don't want to define their “God” but will talk about God's likeness, image, etc.  

Does God have a physical body?  Yes or No?

If you say “No” you negate all of the Scriptures that say otherwise.

Others might say “Yes” BUT…..and explain how the Holy Spirit is inside God and a part of God that He sends out from His body.  Ooops!  If He has a body it is physical and limited and then He alone, then can't be God.

How does everyone rectify their God to Scripture?

One essence?
Two essences?

One God with one essence?
One God with two essences?

Oh, yes and then we have spiritualism:  God is spirit until He makes a manifestation….who buys this one?

Inquiring minds would like to know

David

PS Sorry about the length…..

[JustAskin]

Davidbfun,

Are you really male?

I kinda get a wierd feeling about you?

You not shooting straight, bowling a crooked ball, etc.

Your views are interesting. You bring a refreshingly new dimension in stupidity.

First, it was the Trinitarians, now that has fallen the antiTrinis turn on each other…normal for refinement. But now some weird doctrine of farceness.

Hey, a new piece of equipment to perform Scriptural exercise on.

[shimmer]

Quote (Ed J @ July 22 2010,22:01)

Quote (shimmer @ July 22 2010,20:54) Quote (Ed J @ July 22 2010,21:25) 'still someone else says Holy Spirit is the Father of Jesus' (Matt.1:18,1:20 / Luke 1:35) 'and has Gods blood' (Acts 20:28) Do you not believe what what the bible teaches? Do you offer a different explanation for these verses? I gather Holy Spirit is Sophia [wisdom] so no I could not agree with you. HI Shimmer, I can only plant the seed, it's YHVH's Job to procure it's growth! (Luke 8:5-11) Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (Daniel 11:18 / Luke 18:7-8) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

EdJ, I take back what I said about Wisdom [Sophia] this is what I said on another thread about it..

You have to know the Father and the Son through the Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit knows us; we do not need to understand it. “Now this is eternal life that they may know thee the only true God and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent. I never thought of it till I read here, now I have to stop, It's a trap, I was reading and I was led to think maybe the Spirit is Wisdom then maybe something else—- but now I know, some things you do not need to know. To assume the wrong thing takes you farther and farther away…….. if it's in you why the need to search 'without you' for answers?

[davidbfun]

Quote (JustAskin @ July 24 2010,18:53)

Davidbfun, Are you really male? I kinda get a wierd feeling about you? You not shooting straight, bowling a crooked ball, etc. Your views are interesting. You bring a refreshingly new dimension in stupidity. First, it was the Trinitarians, now that has fallen the antiTrinis turn on each other…normal for refinement. But now some weird doctrine of farceness. Hey, a new piece of equipment to perform Scriptural exercise on.

Hi JA,

Last time that I looked I was….

Thanks for stopping at “male”, used to be a male chauvanist…      lol

I was trained by some of the best “minds” in Southern California, Chuck Smith (founder of Calvary chapel Costa Mesa), Chuck Missler, Dr. Walter Martin, Hal Lindsey, Chuck Swindoll, Rick Warren, Tim Timmons….and they were all Trinitarians.  At the time of my attending their sessions and reading their books I learned to fight “the good faith” and defend the Trinity Doctrine.

It wasn't until 7 years ago when I started to learn Hebrew that God showed me the things I am telling you. At the same time I began living in Cartagena (on the beach) in Colombia, South America.

I tried to write booklets in Spanish that proved the Trinity but I couldn't as it didn't exist.  I didn't have anyone next to me to “guide” me other than the Bible and blueletterbible.org and the internet.

In America I debated other “cults” and now I am debating the cult that I came out of because I am aware of their verses and how they don't apply them correctly.

Here I believe the people really want to know….except Nick….he already knows it all, .

I know my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (Yehoshua Messiach) and His God and His Father….and some of the Bible, too.

Oh by the way, I do throw a wicked curve…Avg'd 194.

Ironically, the Trinitarians haven't fallen in America. The fight for pushing “Only the KJV” has, and lost. Very seldom used now.  That's why they published the “New” KJV.

I write much here but none of the ideas are discussed, boo hoo.

I get more attacks on me (stupidity, farceness, futile, heretic, etc) but not a valid rebuttal of my ideas.  People will say they don't agree and give me their opinion BUT they don't say where mine is wrong and address specifically any point…they give their Scripture on trying to prove their point.

I believe that without Scripture or word studies I could debunk the “gods” here. If they accept “LOGIC” as a basis for responses.

I know that is “stupid and weird” but who is up for a challenge of logic and not languages and not “male and female”.

And as for that point, NO ONE yet has been able to prove that God is NOT “male and female”.  Why?  Because GOD SAID SO, not David….Gen 1:26-27.  But, I won't bring that up because no one likes to hear it. Doesn't go along with their desires of “itchy” ears.

Before I claimed to be a Trinitarian now I am a “Biblian” and follower of Christ….trying to make disciples (preaching, teaching).

The Apostle Paul woul've had a struggle with you, too, eh?
He was anti-christian then changed, etc….you know the rest….

I am glad that one positive thing came out of it…my views are interesting (but true).

I can't tell you HOW or WHY that God is this way, only this is what is being shown to me.  

I don't try to be antagonizing (I know, it comes naturally, lol) but I believe that God brought me here to hn and to His wonderful people to bring His information.

It is up to Him to bring the desired results, no?

Is 55:11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.

If I am pissing you off, think about it, why?

Don't attack me with character assassinations, ok?
Attack the idea and Scripture.  

Jesus told someone that they tithe mint but miss the heavier things that God wanted of them.  

God says, “Know Me!”

In God's Love and mine,

David

PS If you want stupidity I'll post another thread at “Truth” and see how you like it. ok?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The sonship we can follow Jesus in is that of the Jordan rebirth.
That is when God declared this truth prophesised in Ps 2.

[JustAskin]

DavidBfun,

you should go and get a refund and call the IRS or Federal somebody and report your teachers as Fakers.

The mass majority of what you say here doesn't make sense and is a mishmash of beliefs and I still think you are NOT MALE (And as for Chauvinist – huh – you got to be kidding – Can a feminist be Chauvinist?)

[JustAskin]

And DavidBFUn, I nothing of Curve ball – I'm British… we play nice and genteel sport like ear-tearing Rugby and bonecrunching Football.

[JustAskin]

Attack Scriptures you say – W-R-O-N-G.

Scriptures is truth and is faithful – it is the numbskull and knuckle heads and gainsayers who profane it.

You are all over the place – confusion reigns in your posts – and you wonder why people don't respond or respond the way the do?

What is it you really want to know
What is it you really want to say
Did a Spirit come to you one day
If it's Holy, have faith it will stay
Else pray the father and it will go

If you have the Holy Spirit then you will know and speak truth.
If you find yourself speaking a false word then you have false spirit.
Test the Spirit – not all that come in Jesus' name is of Jesus and God.
For even Satan has the ability to transform himself into an angel of light!

[Lightenup]

Bump for Ted!

Hi Ted,
What do you think it means in Col 1:15 where the Son is the 'Firstborn of all creation?'

[JustAskin]

It means he is first over all created beings.

Created beings, being: Angels, Man and Animals.

Firstborn means 'Senior', 'First by Rank order', etc.

Contextually, it does not mean 'Born first in Spirit before time' as Jesus was Spirit…and Spirits are not 'born'.
Jesus, as man, was 'reborn' when God raised him up, he was MAN, therefore 'Born'…from the dead…and he was the First one …raised up to everlasting life, so, 'firstborn…from the dead' AND 'firstborn figuratively' meaning spiritually raised up above others…

[Lightenup]

JA,
I believe that firstborn means first to be born, not first over all created beings. The Hebrews understood a firstborn as one that was the first of the Father's procreative strength.

[kerwin]

Lightenup,

In regards to your post that started this thread, I do not see a connection between the word “morning” in Psalms 110:3 and the “morning” in Genesis 1:5. How do you come to the conclusion there is?

If you read Psalms 110:2 you will see the words “The Lord will” as in the future. In the NIV version of scripture which I use verse 3 states “Your troops will be willing on your day of battle. Arrayed in holy majesty from the womb of the dawn you will receive the dew of your youth. An alternative translation is “Your young men will come to you like the dew”. Offhand the alternative sounds better but I am not sure.

There may be a difference in translations or I may not understand the antique language of the version of scripture you chose to employ. Would you please let me know what version it is? Thank you. I also believe this is a good time to consult a lexicon and listen to alternative translations to see what holds best to the context of the passage and of scripture in general.

Where is day-star mentioned?

[Author]

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