The sabbath a perpetual covenant

Participant

BD,

Father created us, he would know best how we should treat our bodies.

much love to you and yours BD

October 25, 2009 at 8:44 am#153414

Participant

Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 25 2009,15:56)

BD,

Father created us, he would know best how we should treat our bodies.

much love to you and yours BD

We life to the Lord every day not just on the Sabbath. That is what you who thinks that you HAVE TO KEEP THE Sabbath can't understand. The Sabbath also was a sign between God and Israel, and not of us Gentles. Jesus gave us a new Commandment. We are under a new covenant in His Blood.
Luke 22:20
And in
Math. 22:36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
verse 37 Jesus said “You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.”
verse 38″ This is the first and great commandment.
verse 39 ” And the second is like it, ” You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
verse 40 ” On these two commandments hang all of the Law and the prophets.”
Paul tells us that if we want to keep the old covenant law, you are to keep all of the law. ALL OF THE LAW THAT ARE LISTED IN LEV.
Ephesians 2:8-9 tells us that we are under grace by Faith.
Not that we should boast, salvation is a free gift from God.
Read it all.
To rest is whatever day we shall chose. My Husband gave you that Scripture. We have Gods Holy Spirit in us, and every day is to me to the Lord God who made me. I don't need a physical day to do worship . I worship God in Spirit and in truth. Paul tells us to be convinced in your own mind. So don't judge those that want to keep the Sabbath, and don't judge those that wants to keep every day to the Lord. That is what Scriptures say, and not that I or any other human being says.
Peace and Love Irene

October 25, 2009 at 1:25 pm#153425

Participant

Quote

To rest is whatever day we shall chose. My Husband gave you that Scripture. We have Gods Holy Spirit in us, and every day is to me to the Lord God who made me. I don't need a physical day to do worship . I worship God in Spirit and in truth. Paul tells us to be convinced in your own mind. So don't judge those that want to keep the Sabbath, and don't judge those that wants to keep every day to the Lord. That is what Scriptures say, and not that I or any other human being says.

irene, you misunderstand me, i am talking that the Father created us physically, organs, muscles, ect. ect… the creator would best know how we are to care for ourselves. why would Father not give us instruction on how to care for our bodies. Do you find him so mean that he would not?

we are told that we should care for elderly, widowed and orphans, are we just to spiritually feed them? no, we are to care for them physically as well.

much love to you and georg

October 25, 2009 at 2:25 pm#153426

Participant

Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 26 2009,01:25)

Quote

we are told that we should care for elderly, widowed and orphans, are we just to spiritually feed them? no, we are to care for them physically as well.

much love to you and georg

Tell me what has given you Scriptures to show you that we are not under that Covenant in Exodus have to do if I think God is mean? Oh come on. It is not milk anymore, we have received meat.
I did not single you out when I wrote what I did. The Sabbath was never for us. God made that covenant with Israel. Did you even read what it says in Exodus 31:16-17. Also if you want to keep the Old Testament Law, you are to keep the whole Law.
Galatians 5
We as Gentles are under the New Covenant now. And my Husband and I have given all Scriptures to prove that.
In fact in Galatians 3 Paul said” O foolish Galatians who has bewitched you. If you read on Paul said this:” Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith.
In verse 6 just as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
You need to read the whole Chapter to understand what Paul is saying.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and not by yourselves, it is the gift from God.
verse 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
verse 10 For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
Also in Math.22:36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said to them:” You shall love the LORD your God with all of your heart, with all of your soul, and with all your mind.”
verse38 “This is the first and great commandment.
verse 39 “And the second is like it:” You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

verse 40″ On these two commandments hang all the Laws.

If Jesus would have wanted us to keep the Sabbath don't you think that He would have said so, since it was asked of Him, what the greatest commandment was. And Paul in Galatians sums it up. If you want to keep the Old T, Law, you should keep all of the Law.

Jesus also gave us the Sermon on the Mount and there too He did not mention the Sabbath.
Why, because we never were under that Covenant. Also we used to keep the Sabbath and all of the Holy Days.
But God showed us more truths. And He is trying to show you too, but without results. it looks like.
Peace and Love Irene

October 25, 2009 at 2:33 pm#153427

Participant

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,14:57)

Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 24 2009,06:47)

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 24 2009,05:01)

To All………The Sabbath is one of the eternal commandments of GOD, it will never be done away with, it is the very symbol of how we are saved, it symbolizes (CEASING OF OUR WORKS) It is exactly what Jesus did he ceased from his work and let GOD work through HIM, it is the same with US we must cease from our works (ETERNALLY), and let GOD work in US (ETERNALLY). The sabbath (IS) a picture of how eternal life works and will never be done away with now or in the future ever. The same goes with all ten commandments they are eternal commandments. GOD does not remove his laws (ten commandments) he writes them on our hearts and minds, they are eternal. The problem is thinking the Sabbath is only one day when in fact it must come to be every day of our lives.

peace and love to you all……………………gene

Gene,
You are confused. Circumcision was also called an “everlasting” covenant. But the apostles discarded circumcision (Acts 15). If you're going to keep the sabbath then get the surgical tool ready.

thinker

thinker ……Circumcision (IS) an everlasting sign of the Circumcision of the Heart, You problem is not applying it to the spiritual reality of what it (truly) means , same with the Sabbath commandment you and other are not removing it from the Physical to the Spiritual level. Why do you think it says “there remains a keeping of the sabbath unto the people of God (ISREAL), it is because they were not keeping the true Sabbath of GOD. We must learn to see through the eyes of the Spirit (intellect) of GOD, not the eyes of this physical world. GOD instituted all his Commandments because they are Spiritual and life. “Except your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees , you will in no ways inter into the kingdom of GOD”. They keep the physical laws of Sabbaths and circumcisions , but did not have the Spirit to fulfill them Spiritually, the commandments of God are not done away with they are fulfilled in all who are born of the Spirit . “don't think i have come to destory the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill”.

The ten commandment are not the covenant, they are terms of the covenant between Israel and GOD. The covenant is the agreement it self.

The sabbath (man ceasing from(HIS) works)< is the sign of Salvation between GOD and Man an eternal sign, that is why it is (IN) the ten commandments. Thinker why do you keep looking at things through Physical eyes, start looking at them through the eyes of the Spirit, then you will understand them.

peace and love……………gene

Gene! You are wrong. God never gave us Gentles that Covenant in Exodus 31:16-17 and again in
Exodus 34:27-28.
We are under the new Covenant. Read what I said and Georg said in our post here. I am not going to write it dawn again. Oh, are you going to be called, what Paul said to the Galatians?
Peace and Love Irene

October 25, 2009 at 3:26 pm#153429

Participant

Irene,

if you feel that you know how to care for your body better than the Lord does then so be it, this I cannot change, the sabbath might not do you any good, it does wonderful things for me.

and just because one partakes in sabbath, does not mean the other days are not for him also. it is the day of rest, no work, no cooking, no cleaning, no wordly matters, no money exchanging. more worship, reading/sharing his word, gathering of ones, visiting others.

see, if christians have sunday and chosen have saturdays, then the sick, elderly, widows and orphans get to see us twice a week, sounds pretty good to me, what about you?

have not made it to the prisons, just has never been layed on my heart, but neither has witnessing in bars.

October 25, 2009 at 8:56 pm#153478

Worshipping Jesus

Participant

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 24 2009,01:39)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2009,16:21)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,19:12)

Christians should understand the difference between the Sabbath and the Ceremonial Sabbath(s).

Con

There is no difference, it is still called “the Law of sin and death”.

How does the keeping of the Sabbath benifit you in your righteousness toward God?

The answer is “nata”, “zilch”, no amount of keeping the law justifies us to God.

We are living in the New Covenant which is in the Spirit of life which has made us free from the Law of sin and death!

Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, “because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.“For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, “in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit“. Rom 8:1-4

Our Sabbath rest is found in Christ when we have ceased from our own works and depend on the work of grace by his Spirit which is written on our hearts by that Spirit!

Keeping the Sabbath is not about 'MY RIGHTOUSNESS”!

Con

In other words if we don't observe the physical Sabbath then it is not sin for the believer who walks by faith.

Sin is the transgression of the Law. Unrighteousness is the breaking of the Law!

Our righteousness is found in Jesus who is our “righteousness” and Sabbath rest by faith!

Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. “ Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law“; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. “BUT NOW RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM GOD, APART FROM LAW, HAS BEEN MADE KNOWN“, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. “THIS RIGHTEOUSNESS FROM GOD COMES THROUGH FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST TO ALL WHO BELIEVE”. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, “and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus“. Rom 3:19-24

The legalist of the day (Judaizers) hated Paul for believing in the New Covenant and the putting away of the Old!

October 25, 2009 at 9:35 pm#153487

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 26 2009,08:56)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 24 2009,01:39)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 23 2009,16:21)

Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 23 2009,19:12)

Christians should understand the difference between the Sabbath and the Ceremonial Sabbath(s).

Con

There is no difference, it is still called “the Law of sin and death”.

How does the keeping of the Sabbath benifit you in your righteousness toward God?

The answer is “nata”, “zilch”, no amount of keeping the law justifies us to God.

We are living in the New Covenant which is in the Spirit of life which has made us free from the Law of sin and death!

Our Sabbath rest is found in Christ when we have ceased from our own works and depend on the work of grace by his Spirit which is written on our hearts by that Spirit!

Keeping the Sabbath is not about 'MY RIGHTOUSNESS”!

Con

In other words if we don't observe the physical Sabbath then it is not sin for the believer who walks by faith.

Sin is the transgression of the Law. Unrighteousness is the breaking of the Law!

Our righteousness is found in Jesus who is our “righteousness” and Sabbath rest by faith!

The legalist of the day (Judaizers) hated Paul for believing in the New Covenant and the putting away of the Old!

Good post, and I agree with you. I could not have said it any better.
Irene

October 25, 2009 at 10:09 pm#153492

Participant

what 'old' do you speak of?

i do not understand why ones cannot combine the hebrew/greek scriptures, that they have to slice them in half, and with the same tounge say the Son has the same spirit as the father, very confusing.

October 26, 2009 at 12:11 am#153504

Participant

Quote (bodhitharta @ Oct. 25 2009,14:46)

Quote (georg @ Oct. 25 2009,02:21)

To whoever cares

What “was” the law?

Have you ever wondered why it took Moses 40 days to receive 10 commandments?
Have you also noticed before that the tablets were written on both sides, what was on them?

Exd 32:16 And the tables were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, graven upon the tables.

Here is the answer.

Lev 27:34 ¶ These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai.

Read the entire book of Leviticus, and you will find out what was written on the two tablets, they are referred to as the ten (meaning all) commandments, also referred to as the “Law” of Moses.

That was the “Law” Paul is referring too.

Hbr 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Can you “see” that? the LAW was changed.

Georg

You don't want to keep the Sabbath? You don't need a weekly rest?

bod

I'm retired.

Georg

October 26, 2009 at 12:58 am#153512

Participant

Quote

bod

I'm retired.

Georg

and………..

October 26, 2009 at 2:11 am#153529

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All…….The sabbath is a sign between GOD and his people, rather Jew or gentile it still is a sign to them. That sign is the we must cease from (OUR) works and Let the SPIRIT of GOD work in Us. It is a eternal Commandment, it is the way salvation works, in a person and is eternal, the spiritual sabbath has never or never will be done away with it is eternal, just like the rest of all of Gods commandments none of them are ever done away with now or ever will be. Why do you people keep looking at things through Physical eyes, It is the SPIRIT of what sabbath means that counts.

gene

October 26, 2009 at 8:40 am#153573

kerwin

Participant

Constitutionalist wrote:

Quote

According to this, then, the body of Israel, today, becomes those who accept Jesus, observe His teachings and keep the Sabbath.

I believe you are misunderstanding a teaching of Paul.

Romans 2:28-29(NIV) reads:

Quote

A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

Jew is a rather broad term that can mean either a citizen of Judea, one who follows the Jewish faith, or one who is of the Jewish race. In this case Paul is speaking of religion and not the other two meanings while in the genetic sense to all twelve tribes of Israel.

Exodus 20:8-11(NIV) reads:

Quote

“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

This passage seems to support your interpretation as it includes Gentiles but there is a condition attached to the Gentile and that is “within your gate”. I am not sure if this meant within your community or within your household.

Exodus 23:12(NIV) reads:

Quote

“Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed.

This makes it sounds like household.

The passage from Exodus 31 that you quote is just applied to the descendants of Israel and not to Gentiles.

The most I can conclude is that an a Gentile who stays at the household of a Jew is commanded to rest on the Sabbath day. Other than that they are not held to the Sabbath Law.

October 26, 2009 at 3:05 pm#153581

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Kerwin ……You and others continue to focus on the Physical, and completely mis the spiritual reason what the sabbath pictures, and if the Sabbath was done away with why does it say ,”there remains a keeping of the sabbath unto the people of god”, one of the biggest problems here is many try to bring subjects to a physical plain and do not see what it means spiritually. The sabbath was given as a (sign) so our focus should be on what was that sign. It pictures (HOW) salvation works , it shows that we (ALL) must cease from (OUR) works in the flesh and rest in GOD, and put our Wills to death as Jesus did, it is a fundamental requirement for salvation, “who soever shall saves his life shall lose it and who soever looses his life shall save it”, this shows ceasing from our wills and letting the will of GOD work through us. The Sabbath (SPIRITUALLY) is a picture of this process, that is why it is in the ten commandments it will never be done away with (spiritually), this is not a 24 hour 1 day a week exercise but a eternal one. The physical Sabbath was a (SIGN) of that process. Which is fulfilled through the SPIRIT> IMO

gene

October 27, 2009 at 5:07 am#153685

kerwin

Participant

Gene,

I do not believe the Sabbath has been done away with. I believe is currently, and has been since its establishment by God, a Hebrew tradition. I believe that Gentiles should in some cases comply with it in concern for the conscious of their host.

I do see that one day of rest is an act of love when people work from dawn to dusk the other six days of the week as Saturday is as good a day to select for that as any other day. It has the added benefit of celebrating creation.

The Sabbath is also a sign of things to come as you point out.

October 27, 2009 at 7:37 am#153696

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 26 2009,01:40)

Constitutionalist wrote:

Quote

According to this, then, the body of Israel, today, becomes those who accept Jesus, observe His teachings and keep the Sabbath.

I believe you are misunderstanding a teaching of Paul.

Romans 2:28-29(NIV) reads:

Quote

Exodus 20:8-11(NIV) reads:

Quote

Exodus 23:12(NIV) reads:

Quote

“Six days do your work, but on the seventh day do not work, so that your ox and your donkey may rest and the slave born in your household, and the alien as well, may be refreshed.

This makes it sounds like household.

The passage from Exodus 31 that you quote is just applied to the descendants of Israel and not to Gentiles.

The most I can conclude is that an a Gentile who stays at the household of a Jew is commanded to rest on the Sabbath day. Other than that they are not held to the Sabbath Law.

Quote

Constitutionalist wrote:
According to this, then, the body of Israel, today, becomes those who accept Jesus, observe His teachings and keep the Sabbath.

I believe you are misunderstanding a teaching of Paul.

No I understand it perfectly.

Quote

Romans 2:28-29(NIV) reads:

I am talking about Religion as well.

Citizens were also to be Religious.

The Jewish race was supposed to be Religious.

Quote

Exodus 20:8-11(NIV) reads:

Gates: Sha`ar:

1) gate
a) gate (of entrance)
b) gate (of space inside gate, i.e. marketplace, public meeting place)

1) city, town
c) gate (of palace, royal castle, temple, court of tabernacle)
d) heaven

Mark 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Sabbath was made for “man” not just Jew only.

The principle is that the Sabbath is a restorative rest. Works of restoration and redemption are perfectly proper on God's holy day.

As Jesus says of the Sabbath, in Mark 2:27, (translated literally):

27 “The Sabbath was created on account of man, and not man on account of the Sabbath.”

October 27, 2009 at 8:00 am#153698

http://www.bibleonly.org/docs/sab/nt_texts.html

Participant

Colossians 2:16

16 Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day

Those who would have us convinced of the archaic character of Sabbath keeping interpret this passage to say that Sabbath is not important.

This is a classic case of using part of what is said as a “proof text” to say something the author did not intend.

But so many scholars take this position that we have to examine Paul's teaching here in detail.

In order to do this, we must examine the entire chapter.

1 For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf, and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face,
2 that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Paul begins with a general statement of his concerns for the church at Colossae, emphasizing that he wants them to come to a “true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself”.

This is the crux of the matter.

The church was becoming infested with pagan teachings.

This syncretism (blending of Christian and non-Christian beliefs) was polluting the pure gospel of Jesus Christ, taking people away from a trust in the cleansing blood of Jesus sanctifying the sinner by faith, and substituting a doctrine of salvation by works.

This directly confronts the core of paganism by showing the true source of knowledge.

Paganism comes from the speculations of men, while Christianity is the truth revealed by God himself.

Paul confirms this with verse 4.

4 I say this in order that no one may delude you with persuasive argument.

Archeology has given us a fair understanding of the heresy Paul was confronting.

There was a Gentile paganism which was involved in the worship of astrological deities and a Jewish paganism which worshipped various angels who were regarded as being particularly powerful.

These “deities” were generally malevolent.

One might appease them by various ascetic practices such as fastings, celibacy, and so on.

It was also possible to invoke these angels to act against one's enemies by use of the appropriate curses.

Many lead tablets detailing these curses have been found in Colossae.

After declaring anything other than God's revealed truth to be wrong, he praises faith in Christ.

5 For even though I am absent in body, nevertheless I am with you in spirit, rejoicing to see your good discipline and the stability of your faith in Christ.
6 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
7 having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

Having completed his introduction, Paul begins the next paragraph by repeating his main point.

We should note that the English translation “elementary principles,” while linguistically correct, misses an important point.

This phrase translates “stoicheia” according to its modern equivalence.

It literally means “to march in a line.”

There were seven “planets” known in the heavens in Paul's day.

Each of these was revered as a god.

Because of the hierarchical organization these gods were placed in, they were described as stoicheia, or “marching in a line.”

Thus, Paul is making a direct reference to the planetary gods.

8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles (i.e. planetary gods) of the world, rather than according to Christ.

This admonition is nearly a quote of Jesus' statement to avoid the excesses of the rabbinical religious rules in Mark 7.

6 And He said to them, “Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written, 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far away from Me.
7 'But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'
8 “Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.”
9 He was also saying to them, “You nicely set aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.

In both cases, the people were trying to get to heaven (or paradise) on the strength of their works.

The Jews observed the thousands of pharisaic rules, while the pagans followed the asceticism and curse protocols of their gods.

The core of the gospel is that we are saved by faith, not works. Romans 1:17.

17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”

After making it clear that Christ is the center of truth, Paul begins a sermon on the gospel ministry of Christ.

It is phrased in language directed at the heresy at hand.

9 For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Since Jesus has the “fulness” of deity, he has all of the divine authority and prerogatives asserted for the planetary deities and the angels.

There is no need for any reference to any other allegedly divine agent since he is the highest of all (see Php 2:9-11).

In Jesus, the believer has complete victory.

11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
12 having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
13 And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.

Paul makes it clear that Jesus is the source of our salvation, having “nailed … to the cross ” “the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us”.

Here Paul uses the Greek expression chierographon dogma.

This is a secular legal term which describes the “guilty” verdict which is presented in the middle of a court.

Jesus has “taken it out of the middle.” (literal translation) Paul is boldly stating that our guilty verdict has been taken by Christ with him to the cross.

This argument is parallel to another of Paul's.

4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection,
6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, that our body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin;
7 for he who has died is freed from sin.
8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10 For the death that He died, He died to sin, once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ
Jesus. Rom 6:4-11

Here Paul is describing that we have been “buried with Him” and “died with Christ” as metaphors for our death sentence being executed in Christ. Christ died as our penal substitute.

We have sinned and are properly sentenced to die.

But Jesus stands in our place, taking the penalty of the court on himself so that we may live.

The variant of this argument which Paul makes in Colossians tells how Jesus took the condemnation which our transgressions of the law write against us and “nailed it to the cross”, substituting his blood for ours to satisfy the law.

Verse 15 could be rewritten (without harm to the Greek):

15 When He had incapacitated the rulers and authorities, He boldly made a public show of them, having triumphed over them through the Cross.

What a picture! Our Savior, having totally destroyed the pretenses of both earthly and heavenly rulers and authorities through his teaching, submitted fully to them in taking our place on the Cross, creating the ultimate victory for us over sin.

THIS IS THE GOSPEL.

Jesus' sacrifice buys our pardon.

Nothing we can do can earn it.

16 Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day

Look at the list of things in verse 16.

Food, drink, festivals, new moons, and Sabbath days were all specifically prescribed in their manner of observance by the pagans.

These ascetic rules were brought by converted pagans into Christianity.

They repeated the error of the rabbis, and substituted salvation by works for the gospel of salvation by faith.

Paul does not once argue for or against any Biblical prescription on food or holy days.

His point is fully made in verse 8 with his condemnation of “tradition of men”.

It should be carefully noted that Paul is not talking about Biblical laws.

The Greek word “nomos” (law) does not appear anywhere in the letter to the Colossians.

Also, while specific concerns existed in the Mosaic law regarding “food, … festivals, … and Sabbath days”, nowhere in the Mosaic law is there any prescription regarding “drink” or “new moons.”

This list cannot be referring to the law.

It must be referring to the pagan prescriptions.

Anti-Sabbatarians claim that this text eliminates Sabbath-keeping.

But, if this text were to eliminate Sabbath-keeping, it would also eliminate eating and drinking.

Somehow that doesn't make a lot of sense.

Since we cannot be looking at eliminating eating and drinking, we must be looking at rules regulating the manner of eating and drinking.

This must also be the case with the Sabbath.

The phrase “let no one act as your judge” refers to accepting the judicial pronouncements of other men.

It says nothing about God's rules, since God's rules are not being discussed!

Since that the focus is not on whether to observe Sabbath, but rather on the manner of Sabbath-keeping, and Paul is condemning the pagan prescriptions, it appears that Paul's statement could properly be paraphrased:

“don't accept anyone's judgment against your way of keeping the Sabbath because you don't follow all of their rules”.

Paul is not saying that no one is to form a personal conclusion that you are incorrect and that they should not attempt to persuade you differently.

The fact that he condemns certain actions in this passage makes this very clear.

Other times Paul shows that we ought to try to convince others of their errors.

While several texts come to mind, Titus 1:7-9 will suffice.

7 For the overseer must be above reproach as God's steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not addicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain,
8 but hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled,
9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, that he may be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.

This can be further clarified by looking at the original Greek.

The verb translated “judge” is krineto.

It can have multiple meanings, depending on its context and “mood”.

In this usage, its mood is “imperative”, and is illustrated by Logos' Tense/Voice/Mood as follows:

“The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding.

Thus, Jesus' phrase, “Repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mk.1:15) is not at all an “invitation,” but AN ABSOLUTE COMMAND REQUIRING FULL OBEDIENCE ON THE PART OF ALL HEARERS.” (emphasis added)

This makes it clear that the proper definition in this text is:

“to rule, govern: to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment”

Paul's clear statement, taken directly from his own pen, is even stronger than the paraphrasing we saw above.

It might be better to paraphrase it as:

“do not let any man impose absolute laws on you which you are obligated to obey with regard to . Sabbath days.”

As I write this I find I have to stop in amazement.

How can anyone think that Paul is excusing us from the obligation to keep the Sabbath holy?

The original Greek simply does not allow that sort of interpretation!

Paul is attacking perversions of the Sabbath, not Sabbath observance.

Paul continues by saying that each item in the list is a “shadow of what is to come”, and that “substance belongs to Christ”.

We must be very careful to see Paul's point.

Their perversions of God's truth are not to be allowed.

Only the pure gospel is to be allowed.

These other rules imported from the invented beliefs of man must not be allowed to taint the pure received truth of the cross.

17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Here Paul tells us that this list of food, drink, and special days (the “things”) are shadows, where the reality belongs to Christ.

The use of the term “shadow” leads us into thoughts of type and antitype, such as the tabernacle in the wilderness which was an “example and shadow” of the one in heaven (Heb 8:5 KJV).

But this would be an error.

While the term “shadow” is often used in typology, this cannot be Paul's intent here.

The Mosaic festivals were types which were fulfilled in the antitype of Jesus, but food and drink were not types of any future antitype.

Nor were new moons.

But if we look at our existence here, we will readily recognize that it is but a pale shadow of the glories prepared for us (1 Cor 2:9 cf. Isa 64:4, 1 Cor 13:9-12).

Paul is using the term shadow in a general sense to point forward to the reality of eternity.

18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.

We have already noted the “self-abasement” in the ascetic pagan prescriptions.

Paul also condemns “the worship of angels” by the pagan Jews.

But the most direct condemnation is that of “taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflated without cause by his fleshly mind”.

This is a direct reference to gnosis, or the “formation in knowledge” which the Gnostics claimed.

This pagan sect was coming into prominence, and relied on the idea of secret knowledge which they thought only they had.

They believed that the flesh was evil and the spi
rit good. By saying that the false teachings were the result of a “fleshly” mind, he said that the gnosis was evil. Paul clearly states that they are false teachers, and that we should “hold… fast” to Jesus.

20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”
22 which all refer to things destined to perish with the using– in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?

Paul now revisits verse 8 and “the elementary principles of the world” (the planetary deities), then clarifies what he said in verse 16 with “why… do you submit yourself to decrees”.

This is the rule-making he wants us to avoid accepting.

Verse 21 specifies that the ascetic pagan prescriptions are rules we must avoid.

Verse 23 revisits verse 8 again.

23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

Paul can't be any more clear.

Those who try to use Colossians 2:16 as an excuse to stop keeping the Sabbath have made the classic proof-text error.

They use English translations which leaves out the content and impact of the original Greek, then ignore the context.

They are then able to choose a few words to support a position contrary to the original Word.

:cool:

October 27, 2009 at 8:04 am#153699

http://www.bibleonly.org/docs/sab/nt_texts.html

Participant

Galatians 4:10-11

10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.
11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

It certainly appears that “days” could mean Sabbaths, and that observing them is not good.

But once again, “proof-text-itis” gets us in trouble.

We have to look at ALL of what Paul is saying.

Starting with verse 8:

8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.
9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?

Paul begins by looking at the state of the believers in Galatia before they heard the message.

They were pagans, and observed pagan holidays.

They believed that the earth and its people were under the control of a pantheon of gods, each with its own holy days, celestial bodies, and prescribed behaviors.

Paul refers to them as “those which by nature are no gods”.

He then questions why they would “turn back” to those observances.

Paul uses the same references to “worthless elemental things” (the planetary deities) which we saw in Colossians 2.

The summary list in verse 10, “days and months and seasons and years”, is the same formulaic list seen many places in scripture.

Col 2:16 has it in annual/monthly/weekly order while Gal 4:10 puts it in weekly/monthly/seasonal/annual order.

The Jewish holy days appeared on first glance to loosely match the pagan categories.

So when pagans converted to Christianity, they saw Christian Jews observing holy days that looked a lot like what they had been doing before.

It is easy to see how they might “turn back” to their prior worship.

By conditioning their faith on such things as observance of days and seasons, the Galatians were making salvation dependent on human achievement.

Once again, the heresy has an element of syncretistic salvation by works as well as a failure to break away from their old pagan practices.

Just as in Col 2:16, Paul makes no reference to the Mosaic law or its observances.

The Torah details all of the festivals and special observances, and not once does it indicate any special status for the new moon (“months”).

That observance was related to the pagan moon god.

The only use made of the new moon by the Jews was to mark the months to keep the dates of festivals correct.

The inclusion of “months” in this list of observances clearly identifies it as a pagan list.

Therefore, no Jewish or Christian observance is even being discussed.

The Sabbath does not appear.

Because it is not in view, it is not legitimate to draw any inference about its continuing (in)validity from this passage.

:cool:

October 27, 2009 at 8:10 am#153700