The reconciliation of all things

[SimplyForgiven]

Hi All,
I have visited this website many times, and i happen to be in communication with the writers of this site, and i wanted to know Heavens.net's view on this.

Just some advice and info,
-They do believe that Jesus is God,
-And if you are lead to email than, do not expect a warm welcome.   this is a warning not a joke.
-They believe i guess that everything will be reconciled even the unbelievers 

I think everyone already knows what i think, if you dont than ask me.
But anyways let me know what you think?
Basically it goes along the lines with what Chosenone and what Gene thinks, but its more profound but just to warn you, im sure they will post something.
oh and i tried to organize it the best way i could, if you dont like it click the link and you can see it for your self in the way they organzied it which is MUCH much better.
************Im going to retry to organize it better 

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THE RECONCILIATION OF ALL THINGS

“For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fulness dwell, and, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself, by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth or in heaven” (Colossians 1:19-20).

It is such hard work to reconcile the doctrines of men – such as eternal separation, torment, and annihilation – with the words inspired by the Spirit of God. The intention of Almighty God, as revealed in Holy Scripture, has always been to reconcile all things to Himself. And while intentions of men do not always come to pass, there is no doubt that not only is God fully capable of doing as He pleases, there is no greater power than His will and the power of His resurrection, and no one purer in heart and motive. To Him, the only wise God and Lord Jesus Christ, be the glory and praise forever!

This preeminence gives power to men in the carnal and worldly realm.
   Why, oh why, would not men everywhere who profess a belief in Him and who tout the veracity and sanctity of Scripture not publish from the rooftops with great rejoicing this wonderful truth of His plan for the reconciling of all things? One reason is because it completely denies any worthiness on the part of humankind, which is all in need of reconciling that comes not by man's efforts but only as a gift of God. Religious men (and we have all been religious, one way or another) want to have the preeminence and say that it is because of what THEY did that they are in favor, though they will couch their expression in terms that make it appear to give God the glory. This preeminence gives power to men in the carnal and worldly realm and does not give God the glory at all, only man.
   What the religious person comes along saying, in effect, is: “God has saved me because He knew there was some good thing in me. As for you, you rejected Him because He already knew and had decided that you were not fit for His grace and favor, instead meriting punishment that has no end (or you will be simply wiped out). Those few of us who accepted Him will give thanks in heaven that we weren't so hard and wicked that we could not attain this state which others such as you were not able to.”
   Is there any idea that more thoroughly blackens the Name of God and His character than that which attributes all power and grace to Him, yet declares He consigns much of His creation to torment without end? To state that it is purely a gift of grace that brings salvation, yet believe that God desires to not only withhold that gift from those to whom He could equally bestow it, but also chooses to torture them for so long that a million years is only the beginning, is this not dementedly devilish? To think that an Omnipotent Creator and Ruler could bring into existence creatures knowing, much less planning such a fate, is to attribute an insensitivity and cruelty to Him that is unimaginable. For men it is imaginable because, after all, they concoct this idea. Therefore it is not only imaginable but documented.

The only way out of this diabolical trap is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.
   The idea of annihilation is certainly more palatable an end, but not much better in giving of glory to God. Jesus said that “God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:17). As we have all heard, “For God so loved the world…” How successful a love and salvation is annihilation (is that what you desire for your loved ones?) from Him Who is declared the Giver and Sustainer of all things and life itself? The resurrected Lord declares that He has the keys to hell and death (Rev. 1:18). How then are they accorded more power than Him?
   Getting back to where men separate themselves out and stake a superior position based on their intrinsic ability to receive God, the reasoning continues that if they are deserving or capable of being saved and favored by God, who are you not to acknowledge them? If they represent or are part of an organization which holds this special position, you must honor them, otherwise your final non-resting place will be the burning slag pile. You must validate them if you will possibly escape the horrors presented or assumed as coming from the all powerful Creator.
   Now I tell you that all of you are trapped by this diabolical reasoning whether you are of those who think they worship God or those who make no claims. It permeates the very air you breathe and your acknowledgment, whether in the positive or negative, only gives power and honor to the beast of the religious self-righteousness of man. There is one and only one way out of this diabolical trap, and that is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. If we believe on Him and continue in His word it will then be as He said: “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” (John 8:32).
    For praise God Almighty, His thoughts and ways are not men's thoughts and ways. As Isaiah recorded, “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven, and returns not thither, but waters the earth, and makes it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall My Word be that goes forth out of My mouth; it will not return to Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it” (Isaiah 55:9-11).
“We have seen that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.”
And what does His Word say?
“All nations that You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, and shall glorify your Name” (Psalm 86:9).
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved” (John 3:16-17).
“And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world” (I John 4:14).  
“The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance” (II Peter 3:9).
“All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord, and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before You” (Psalm 22:27).
“…having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He has purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fulness of tim
es He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth, even in Him” (Ephesians 1:9- 10).
“…Who will have all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth… Who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time” (I Timothy 2:4,6).
“…that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father” (Philippians 2:10-11).

    Herein are not only the intentions of God clearly stated, He also gives them as a matter of fact. Now, do you believe that men who are weeping and gnashing their teeth will be confessing Jesus Christ as Lord, to the glory of God? A cosmic arm-twisting to elicit an “uncle” through clenched teeth? No way. The Scriptures, inspired by the Spirit of God, say, “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God (Lord), God dwells in him, and he in God” (I John 4:15). And again, “That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved” (Romans 10:9).
Of creation it is said several times that “God saw that it was good.”
“No man can say that Jesus is Lord, but by the Holy Spirit” (I Corinthians 12:3). We are not talking lip service here, which many give (Matthew 15:8) but which does not glorify God. No, this is real, inspired from a heart knowledge of God. We will all know Who He is and what He has done.“And they shall teach no more every man his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sin no more” (Jeremiah 31:34). And again, “Behold He comes with clouds, and every eye shall see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of Him. Even so, Amen” (Revelation 1:7).

    Yes, there will be sorrowing, but with holy purpose unto repentance, not pain upon pain upon pain with no recourse. “For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea” (Isa. 11:9). And, “All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before You” (Psalm 22:27). Please ask yourself how completely waters cover the sea, or who is left out when all kindreds of the nations and ends of the world are turning to and worshiping the Lord of hosts.
   The Scriptures are full of the record given by God of His will for creation. His character permeates it all, for it is by knowing His character that we also know His will. The record is from the beginning, as Peter said, “…Whom the heaven must receive (the Lord Jesus Christ) until the times of restitution of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began” (Acts 3:21).
    So what has been said, starting in the beginning? Of creation it is said several times that “God saw that it was good.”And when complete (which concluded with man) it is summed up, “And God saw everything that He had made, and behold, it was very good” (Genesis 1:31).
   If we had no more testimony than this, doesn't this say it all? How can creation be termed good if destined in large part to destruction and torment as its end? Especially when the Creator is so powerful as to create all these things, knowing all, existing beyond space and time? And how can this picture of defeat be reconciled with the record that, “of the increase of His government and peace there shall be no end…” (Isaiah 9:7)?
  The first recorded event of man and woman in Scripture is the sin of Adam wherein he disobeyed the commandment of God. Notice in Genesis 3 that Adam did not repent. He blamed God and his wife (“the woman that You gave me”). Did God give Adam an eternal hot seat time out to think about what he did and had unloaded on his progeny and all of creation? No, He protected him physically (making them coats of skins) and spiritually (keeping him away from the Tree of Life in his fallen state).
    Of this Adam Paul writes that through his offence death reigned. He goes on to say that the gift of grace by the second Adam, Jesus Christ, is greater than the condemnation of the first. “For the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification” (Romans 5:16). Which is greater, one sin that brings all of mankind under the curse of disobedience and independence which comes by eating from the tree of knowledge, or the act of obedience of the laying down of the life that redeems not only Adam, but all sinners thereafter? The fish that swallows the fish is the greater one, no? So it is here.

What happened to everything being good?
“For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order…And when all things shall be subdued unto Him…God may be all in all” (I Corinthians 15:21,22, 23, 28). If this is not comprehensive, what is? “Every” and “all” does not cover who or what? And notice that all is subdued to Him. All have been in rebellion and have feasted on being independent of God. All will be subdued. Not by men's scare tactics but by experience of evil and revelation of the righteous God Who came as a man and gave Himself for us that we might have Life. We then no longer eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, which brings death, but live in and by the Tree of Life, the Lord Jesus Christ Who said, “Truly, truly I say to you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of Man, and drink His blood, you have no life in you” (John 6:53).
   Furthermore, the sin and fall of Adam were not a cosmic oversight, this new creature made in the image of God throwing a monkey wrench into God's work.  Not at all.  Of Him it is said: “In Whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him Who works all things after the counsel of His Own will…” (Ephesians 1:11).  He is in full control.  Men have it backwards.  It is not we, but He, Who is fully in charge.  And men also have it backwards about creation being brought down.  “For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of Him Who has subjected the same in hope, because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God” (Romans 8:20-21).
    Moving on from Adam we next have Cain, who murders his brother because his brother's sacrifice was accepted of God and his wasn't. Cain was religious and presaged the religious who would stone the prophets and crucify the Christ. And what did God do with Cain, skin him alive? No, He put a mark on him so that he could live. Some might think that was only for punishment, but Cain also founded a city and had progeny. Why tolerate the evildoer for another moment, if you are all powerful? No, friends, there was purpose in the keeping of Cain and it wasn't to put off future torture. God's ways are much higher.
    From that point on corruption overspreads the earth and it is filled with violence (from a Hebrew word meaning “unjust gain”). Sound familiar? And the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth…for it repents Me that I have made them” (Genesis 6:7). What happened to everything being good? If everything stopped there that would be a legitimate objection to what has already been stated here. However, the very next line answers all: “But Noah found grace in the eyes of God.”

He chooses the weak and foolish so that it is known that it is His power.
    Grace is what? Earned, sweated out, figured out, achieved? No, it is a gift of God. It was not Noah but God that determined to save man. Yes, He was angry and still is with the evil thoughts and imaginations of men's hearts. He is so great that He is willing to suffer such for the glory of that which He has created and redeems. He gave grace and made a man that would fulfill His will. That is the pattern throughout His story.
    So Noah and his family are saved and all else are destroyed in the flood, everyone consigned to hell forever, right? But what is this that Peter tells us, throwing all certainty of such a notion into turmoil?
“For Christ also has once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but quickened by the Spirit, by which also he went and preached to the spirits in prison, which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved by water” (I Peter 3:18-20).
They were not at all finished as men teach.
“For it pleased the Father that in Him should all fullness dwell, and, having made peace through the blood of His cross, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself, by Him, I say, whether they be things in earth or in heaven” (Colossians 1:19-20).

Therefore He preached to the spirits in prison.

I am convinced that we could spend the rest of our lives looking at every verse in the Bible, reflecting on the will of God and His graciousness. That is how wonderfully full this subject is. Of necessity I will move on and give one more example.
    Abraham was called out alone. He was the one man chosen of God in whom all nations would be blessed. Men love numbers and are impressed by them; God does things that appear foolish and weak. So it is to this day. It is His work and glory, not man's. He chooses the small, the weak and foolish so that it will be known that it is His power and not man's.
    God, seeing how Abraham was blessed of Him, decided to tell Abraham that He was going to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah. Abraham, concerned for his nephew, Lot, asked, “Will You also destroy the righteous with the wicked?” (Genesis 18:23) The question was a rhetorical one. Lot, as Noah, found grace in His sight (it is God's doing) and was spared, while the cities were destroyed by fire from heaven. Of this event Jude writes, “…even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire” (Jude 7). Which means they were destroyed by fire and are now burning in hell, forever, right?
God delights in judgment, why? So He can see people squirm in torment?
    Wrong. When fire consumes all that can be consumed, it has burned eternally, or forever. If I burn a piece of paper forever the time involved is short. The qualifiers of eternal and forever address the thoroughness of the work, not the time duration. This is proved by the words of the Lord Jesus Himself.
“And you, Capernaum, which are exalted unto heaven, shall be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which had been done in you, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you” (Matt. 11:23-24).
  If the Lord had done in Sodom as He had in Capernaum they would have repented. How could anyone say that if repentance is possible for someone(and the Lord is willing that none should perish but that all should come to repentance (as per 2 Peter 3:9), He would then consign the sinner that could be saved to a condition of torment without end? It is simple: one cannot.
   This is confirmed in the second part of the quotation that is bolded, that it will be more tolerable in the day of judgment for Sodom than for those who rejected the Lord after seeing His great works, still not believing. The reason judgment can be more tolerable for some is that judgment is for correction, and therefore is meted out in varying degrees as necessary. You who have children and discipline them do not do so with a one-size-fits-all approach, but try to tailor the punishment to the need of the child so that they may learn. You, who are sinners though made in the image of God, do you think He does differently?
   Let me ask you some very simple questions: If you could plan to have 20 children, loving them all, knowing that while only one would live to have peace and prosperity, while the other 19 would burn forever in horrible torment, crying, screaming, writhing, without an end, would you have those children? And could you be at peace with that one, knowing the other 19 are suffering horribly when you could have made the decision to not have them in the first place? Would that one be able to bask in total fulfilment and pleasure with you? Would it please you if that one could completely forget about those who continue to exist in torment? I most certainly know what my answer would be. Now you may say, “Well, this is logic. Logic is not the way by which we judge these things.” I disagree. God has given us our minds and has given us reasoning power, which can be pure and effective only when cleansed and taught by Him. However, we give you not only reason, but the Scriptural Testimony.

The Lord Jesus Christ died for us while we were yet His enemies.
    God delights in judgment why? So He can see people roast and squirm in torment? God forbid anyone should think so. He says to us, “Depart from evil, and do good: and dwell forevermore, for the Lord loves judgment…” (Psalm 37:27-28). He loves judgment because the end of it is righteousness, peace, joy, life forevermore. That is the entire testimony of the Scriptures.

“Oh that men would praise the Lord for His goodness, and for His wonderful works to the children of men!” (Psalm 107:8,15,31)

It is only men who hold such a grudge against their fellow man for the evils done them (whether in fact, or even simply perceived) that they think in terms of torment and punishment without end. It is not God; not ever did it enter His mind. It is totally against His nature. The Lord Jesus Christ died for us while we were yet His enemies. That is His nature. A man might give his life for a beloved friend or relative, “but God commends His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). He did not die for the righteous.
   The religious self-righteous hate to hear of God's restitution of all. It offends them. It takes away their sense of importance, reward, sacrifice and vengeance on those who opposed them. It denies their works (remember Cain). They exclaim, “Then it doesn't matter what you do, if everyone is going to be saved.” They expose themselves right then and there as having no heart for what is right, no appreciation that what is right has its own reward, which God wishes us to know and thereby live. And conversely they do not acknowledge that evil too has its rewards, as sure as the sun sets in t
he west. “Be not deceived, God is not mocked; for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap” (Galatians 6:7).
    In the end we will all know God. We will know He rules over all things, at all times, in complete sovereignty. It is all His doing. If we complain about our lives it is against Him that we complain. When taken to a higher level, we will and do see that it has all been for good, that He meant it for good and not evil, and we will all lift up our voices to praise Him.

Paul Cohen

“The Reconciliation of All Things” by Victor Hafichuk and Paul Cohen http://www.thepathoftruth.com/teachings/restitution/reconciliation.htm

[terraricca]

SF

this is what puzzles me the most;; In the end we will all know God. We will know He rules over all things, at all times, in complete sovereignty. It is all His doing. If we complain about our lives it is against Him that we complain. When taken to a higher level, we will and do see that it has all been for good, that He meant it for good and not evil, and we will all lift up our voices to praise Him.

Paul Cohen

IS CONCLUTION IS WITHOUT SCRIPTURES THIS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FIRST……

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2010,09:31)

SF this is what puzzles me the most;;  In the end we will all know God. We will know He rules over all things, at all times, in complete sovereignty. It is all His doing. If we complain about our lives it is against Him that we complain. When taken to a higher level, we will and do see that it has all been for good, that He meant it for good and not evil, and we will all lift up our voices to praise Him. Paul Cohen IS CONCLUTION IS WITHOUT SCRIPTURES THIS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FIRST…… Pierre

what do you mean?

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ Oct. 06 2010,23:19)

Quote (terraricca @ Oct. 06 2010,09:31) SF this is what puzzles me the most;;  In the end we will all know God. We will know He rules over all things, at all times, in complete sovereignty. It is all His doing. If we complain about our lives it is against Him that we complain. When taken to a higher level, we will and do see that it has all been for good, that He meant it for good and not evil, and we will all lift up our voices to praise Him. Paul Cohen IS CONCLUTION IS WITHOUT SCRIPTURES THIS I WOULD LIKE TO SEE FIRST…… Pierre what do you mean?

SF

Let me ask you some very simple questions: If you could plan to have 20 children, loving them all, knowing that while only one would live to have peace and prosperity, while the other 19 would burn forever in horrible torment, crying, screaming, writhing, without an end, would you have those children? And could you be at peace with that one, knowing the other 19 are suffering horribly when you could have made the decision to not have them in the first place? Would that one be able to bask in total fulfilment and pleasure with you? Would it please you if that one could completely forget about those who continue to exist in torment? I most certainly know what my answer would be. Now you may say, “Well, this is logic. Logic is not the way by which we judge these things.” I disagree. God has given us our minds and has given us reasoning power, which can be pure and effective only when cleansed and taught by Him. However, we give you not only reason, but the Scriptural Testimony
——————————————
this above are personal views of “”all will be saved no matter what “”like CO believe.

this is without consideration ,that we are used to pro create children for God not for ourselves ,out of selfishness,

anyone who thinks that God as given us procreation for our pleasure,as no godly understanding,

just as God choose the offspring of Israel(Jacob) to become a nation for his name,they really misunderstood the scope of that mission,that mission was to produce a godly nation.

it is well now known that God trough Christ as called on all men to come to him and serve him,so he will have a nation out of all nation that will serve him.

the time is running out for this ,and the judgement is near for all of us,according to what we have done,

yes there will be a final choice for most all of us in the second resurrection,but it will be final then.and it seems that not all will be saved or wanted to be saved.

Pierre

[Baker]

Hi!  If everyone will be saved at the end , then what is the Lake of Fire for, or it says that this earth is reserved for the destruction of all evil men?  Not all Humanity will follow Christ and some will burn up in the Lake of Fire.  I don't believe it will burn forever.  Only until all those wicked will be burned up.   Then we will have peace on the New Earth and good will to all men….Not all will be Spirit beings either.  Some will be Human, since the Tree of life will be in the New Jerusalem….It says the meek will inherit the earth….. Peace Irene

[JustAskin]

Irene,
I don't know what else you believe but in what you say in your last post, I am in full support.

But who are you opposing in your post. Who is so deluded as to be saying otherwise?

[terraricca]

SF

Ro 5:11 Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Ro 11:15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
2Co 5:18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
2Co 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation

Jn 3:16 “God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son. Anyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life.
Jn 3:17 “God did not send his Son into the world to judge the world. He sent his Son to save the world through him.
Jn 3:18 Anyone who believes in him is not judged. But anyone who does not believe is judged already. He has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son

this are the words of Christ and it is not different from what Paul says.

Pierre

[chosenone]

Isaiah 46:10… Saying, All My counsel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.

Isaiah 46:11… Indeed I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about!
I formed. Indeed, I will do it.

What could be plainer? Our God is not like us, hoping we can accomplish something.
God WILL DO what He desires, and that is to save ALL mankind! (1Tim.2:4)

God Bless, Jerry.

[chosenone]

Isaiah 46:10… Saying, All My counsel shall be confirmed,
And all My desire will I do.

Isaiah 46:11… Indeed I speak! Indeed, I will bring it about!
I formed. Indeed, I will do it.

What could be plainer? Our God is not like us, hoping we can accomplish something.
God WILL DO what He desires, and that is to save ALL mankind! (1Tim.2:4)

God Bless, Jerry.

[SimplyForgiven]

You know as much as i would love to believe that everyone will be saved either through the purificaction of judgment or through faith in Jesus Christ, I have my doubts that everyone will be.

I feel this is the the extreme of two sides. That one that mostly everyone will burn in hell, and second that everyone will be saved.
I learned about Halalctic reasonings includes making the two extremes into paradox, is what i will Try my best to do.
all will be saved:
In Just reasoning, Its hard to say that All will be saved.
1) because Than what is the point to preach anymore.
I remember that the “rapture” doctrine preaches that the saved willll bes “raptures” by Jesus and whatever.
People responses to this is “well if thats true than ill just live my life however i want to and go through the tribulation and wait for his second coming”
I see the same reactions to those who believe this doctrine as well. What is your purpose if not to preach the Good news that “saves”
Which leads to my second question
2) saved from what? If we know that Death is the last enemy to be defeated, than we also know that Jesus overcame death and was ressurected and saved all humanity. Is it that he saved all humanity unwillingly or by grace?
It say in romans he died while yet we were sinners, Yet it says we are saved by Grace in Faith.
So lets go with the extreme now and say yes he saved all humanity.
Ok, so if we are all saved, than what are we saved from?
If there is no such thing as a eternal seperation from God or eteranal hell, than what are we saved from?
And after Jesus died and rose again, people were “saved” but werent they already “saved” techinically speaking.

And if they were saved again, or understood salvation, than what were they saved from now?
And if salvation is for anyone, than why did the apostles work so hard to spread the Gospel.
3) The grace that was given for Man to Love God back was forced.
We know that we love by the cause that God loved first.
But we know that even perfect beings rejected God, and even those that KNEW God, rejected him.
So if we know that there will be people to reject him, than how do you know that they will be saved.
Imagine a King who just conquered a nation, couldnt you say that all will bow their knees to the king,
Freind and foe alike?
and those who were defeated, the conquered nation, they will accept the new king, but under slavery and
harsh conditions as a defeated people and most slain.
In history there are many events where a king would conquer a nation and than after they gave up, and were defeated he killed them off.
Actually thats what God did many times in the OT and commanded that everyone should be killed off.
Even after they knew the “God of the hebrews”
question for everyone to be saved, would mean that some were forced, and not by choice.
Do you think God is important enough to be accepted by deserving it?
He deserves all honor and glory, and not to give it to him would mean death. Should he have to force it out of us?
Or is saving everyone convincing everyone that he Is God?
But after alll that has happen, shouldnt a person be convinced by now?

I had more to say, but i forgot……..lol

Eternal Hell doubts
Though eternal hell suggests a compelete seperation from God for eternity,
my doubts include
1) alot more people will be in hell than in heaven. Actually i think there willl be a just a handfull compared to heaven.
If we just focus on the OT, we know that alot of people existed and believed in false Gods, but only one nation out of all those people were chosen. But the purpose of that one nation was to be a holy nation as a role model for other nations. yet they failed on that. as well.
That just leaves a few heros and the few within that very nation to reach “abrahams bosom”
Just a handful out of how many people? and how many people were killed? thats alot of people in hell for ignorance, but yet Romans says that man is without excuse.
Yet the very reason why God created a holy nation is because he wanted to save the world, so it shows that God cares abotu every single soul, for example God numbered the souls of ninive that also desereved some mercy that Jonah disagreed with.
IT showed that cared about these gentiles.
2) God plan to save alot of people that cant be numbered in revelations really couldnt happen this way.
3) a eternal hell wouldnt satisfy God, yet it satified him to crush Jesus.

I had more also on this too but i forgot………

anyways… those are some of my doubts, and questions, IMO

[Ed J]

Hi SF,

I will explain using one simple example and parable.
Are biblical doctrines really that hard for you to understand; SF?
Being saved from the electric chair and walking out of prison are two different things.

2Peter 3:9 9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but
is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
Free and saved are two different things! John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Matt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king,
which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon,
one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch
as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children,
and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and
worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then
the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave
him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants,
which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the
throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet,
and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he
would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when
his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told
unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said
unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from
your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Matt.5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means
come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

Do you understand now?

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 14 2010,23:11)

Hi SF, I will explain using one simple example and parable. Are biblical doctrines really that hard for you to understand; SF? Being saved from the electric chair and walking out of prison are two different things. 2Peter 3:9 9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Free and saved are two different things! John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Matt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Matt.5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. Do you understand now? Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH! יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

EDJ………….Good Post. Indeed if we forgive not our fellow man there trespasser from the heart, neither will GOD Forgive us of our trespasses. Good Post.

peace and love…………………gene

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 14 2010,17:11)

Hi SF, I will explain using one simple example and parable. Are biblical doctrines really that hard for you to understand; SF? Being saved from the electric chair and walking out of prison are two different things. 2Peter 3:9 9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Free and saved are two different things! John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Matt.18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt. So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done. Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee? And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses. Matt.5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. Do you understand now? Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH! יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

Quote

Are biblical doctrines really that hard for you to understand; SF?

Im going to take that as in insult.
You are again implying that i find biblical doctrines hard.
You imply alot of accusation and things that are not said.

If you read my last post i tried to use Halacktic reasoning.
You should find out what that means.

[Author]

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