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bodhitharta said to Nick:
Quote …but you are like thinker and believe that Paul's words are more “mature” than those of Jesus. Paul's words ARE the words of Jesus. The difference is that Jesus' words were primarily old covenant and prepatory to Paul's new covenant teachings. Why would anyone have a problem with this?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 01 2009,02:09) bodhitharta said to Nick: Quote …but you are like thinker and believe that Paul's words are more “mature” than those of Jesus. Paul's words ARE the words of Jesus. The difference is that Jesus' words were primarily old covenant and prepatory to Paul's new covenant teachings. Why would anyone have a problem with this?
thinker
No, they are not the words of Jesus or he would say “Jesus says” but that is not what he says or “Jesus has revealed to me” but often he says ” I, not the Lord”1 Corinthians 7:11-13 (King James Version)
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
2 Corinthians 11:16-18 (King James Version)
16I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.
17That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
18Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.
Hi BD,
Christ was in Paul such that Paul said he no longer lived[Gal]God was in Christ[2cor 5]
But you stand outside with the contemptuous and rebellious?.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2009,10:15) Hi BD,
Christ was in Paul such that Paul said he no longer lived[Gal]God was in Christ[2cor 5]
But you stand outside with the contemptuous and rebellious?.
So you believe that Christ was in Paul declaring that Christ became a curse for us and then saying anyone who says that Christ is accursed does not speak by the Spirit?Hi BD,
I suppose your misuse of scripture is deliberate?
Paul told us Jesus BECAME a curse.he did not curse or defame Jesus as you have done against the servants of God.
Do you think your God praises you for your denigration of the sacred?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Aug. 01 2009,09:25) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 01 2009,02:09) bodhitharta said to Nick: Quote …but you are like thinker and believe that Paul's words are more “mature” than those of Jesus. Paul's words ARE the words of Jesus. The difference is that Jesus' words were primarily old covenant and prepatory to Paul's new covenant teachings. Why would anyone have a problem with this?
thinker
No, they are not the words of Jesus or he would say “Jesus says” but that is not what he says or “Jesus has revealed to me” but often he says ” I, not the Lord”1 Corinthians 7:11-13 (King James Version)
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
2 Corinthians 11:16-18 (King James Version)
16I say again, let no man think me a fool; if otherwise, yet as a fool receive me, that I may boast myself a little.
17That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.
18Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also.
1Co 7:6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.Bodhitharta said:
Quote No, they are not the words of Jesus or he would say “Jesus says” but that is not what he says or “Jesus has revealed to me” but often he says ” I, not the Lord” Paul did not “often” say “I, not the Lord.” He said it only one time on a particular issue that was NOT related to the new covenant. The new covenant gospel was revealed to Paul by Christ,
Quote …in the day when God will judge the secrets od men through Jesus Christ according to my gospel (Rom. 2:16)
and,Quote Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began but now made manifest, and by the prophetic Scriptures made known to all nations, according to the commandment of the everlasting God (Romans 16:25)
and,Quote 11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ. (Galatians 1:11-12) In all the passages above Paul says that the gospel is “My” gospel. In Romans 16 he said that his gospel was made manifest “according to the commmandment of God” and Galatians 1 says it came “through the revelation of Jesus Christ.”
Therefore, the gospel of Paul was NOT the gospel Christ preached. Paul's gospel replaced Christ's “elementary doctrines” and Paul's gospel was the word of Christ. You do not know the scriptures. Paul's gospel was FAITH ALONE!
thinker
Hi TT,
There is no division between Jesus and Paul.
Jesus taught the Jews about their Law and opened the minds of all since then to new life in His Spirit.
That Spirit was given when he returned to the Father and the realization of that promise was shown through his brothers work under his leading in his body.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2009,19:31) Hi TT,
There is no division between Jesus and Paul.
Jesus taught the Jews about their Law and opened the minds of all since then to new life in His Spirit.
That Spirit was given when he returned to the Father and the realization of that promise was shown through his brothers work under his leading in his body.
No one said anything about “division” between Jesus and Paul. Jesus told His disciples that He had many more things to say to them and that when the Spirit came He would tell them. Christ gave the new covenant gospel to Paul. Christ's teachings were “elementary” and foundational (Heb. 6). But Paul was the man who built upon that foundation. This is not “division” as you think.thinker
Hi TT,
He also said the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reminds us of the words of Jesus.
Paul was given the practical exposition of how the Spirit would lead us to follow Jesus.Nick……….The Spirit of GOD Speaks of its (OWN) initiative. ” Brethren you have no need of a teacher for the Spirit (IT SELF) teaches you all things. There seem to be a problem with you understanding that Jesus the person is (NOT) the SPIRIT that was guiding and directing Him. You have Just said the spirit reminds us of the word of Jesus. But Jesus said the words were (NOT) his words, but the words of Him who sent Him. We need to be careful we are not pushing GOD the FATHER aside and advancing Jesus above Him. Like the deluded Trinitarians do, Jesus indeed spoke to us (GOD”S) Words, but they are GOD”S Words NOT HIS WORDS. Just as written in REVELATIONS, Jesus said “whosoever Has ears to Hear let Him Hear what (THE SPIRIT) is saying to the Churches”. GOD IS A SPIRIT and reveals in our heart and minds (HIS) truth as He does Jesus. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 02 2009,03:07) Nick……….The Spirit of GOD Speaks of its (OWN) initiative. ” Brethren you have no need of a teacher for the Spirit (IT SELF) teaches you all things. There seem to be a problem with you understanding that Jesus the person is (NOT) the SPIRIT that was guiding and directing Him. You have Just said the spirit reminds us of the word of Jesus. But Jesus said the words were (NOT) his words, but the words of Him who sent Him. We need to be careful we are not pushing GOD the FATHER aside and advancing Jesus above Him. Like the deluded Trinitarians do, Jesus indeed spoke to us (GOD”S) Words, but they are GOD”S Words NOT HIS WORDS. Just as written in REVELATIONS, Jesus said “whosoever Has ears to Hear let Him Hear what (THE SPIRIT) is saying to the Churches”. GOD IS A SPIRIT and reveals in our heart and minds (HIS) truth as He does Jesus. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………..gene
Amen!HGB,
Do we need to cast aside jn 14-16 and 2 jn to encompass your idea that the teaching of the Spirit goes beyond that of Scripture?
Test the spirits.Nick……….The teaching of the Spirit (IS) what is written in the scriptures and also the Spirit searches the (DEEP) things of GOD. We Should not limit GOD'S Spirit brother, ” brethren you have no need of a teacher , because the Spirit (IT SELF) teaches us (ALL) things.” Scripture does (NOT) contain (ALL) of GODS SPIRIT (INTELLECT) Just some of IT. Non of what i said goes against what John wrote Nick. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2009,19:53) Hi TT,
He also said the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reminds us of the words of Jesus.
Paul was given the practical exposition of how the Spirit would lead us to follow Jesus.
You are mistaken Nick. Jesus did NOT say that the Spirit would remind them of things He said. He said that He had many more things to say to them and that He would send the Spirit to tell them these those things. He said that the Spirit would show them things “to come.”Your statement that the Spirit would “remind” of past things Jesus said is a total fabrication without any basis at all.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 06 2009,09:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2009,19:53) Hi TT,
He also said the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reminds us of the words of Jesus.
Paul was given the practical exposition of how the Spirit would lead us to follow Jesus.
You are mistaken Nick. Jesus did NOT say that the Spirit would remind them of things He said. He said that He had many more things to say to them and that He would send the Spirit to tell them these those things. He said that the Spirit would show them things “to come.”Your statement that the Spirit would “remind” of past things Jesus said is a total fabrication without any basis at all.
thinker
Hi thethinker:What about the following scripture?
Quote Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Aug. 06 2009,10:00) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 06 2009,09:36) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 01 2009,19:53) Hi TT,
He also said the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reminds us of the words of Jesus.
Paul was given the practical exposition of how the Spirit would lead us to follow Jesus.
You are mistaken Nick. Jesus did NOT say that the Spirit would remind them of things He said. He said that He had many more things to say to them and that He would send the Spirit to tell them these those things. He said that the Spirit would show them things “to come.”Your statement that the Spirit would “remind” of past things Jesus said is a total fabrication without any basis at all.
thinker
Hi thethinker:What about the following scripture?
Quote Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Nick was saying that John 16 says that the Holy Spirit would remind them of things Jesus said. But John 16 says that the Holy Spirit would teach them things Jesus had not spoken to them.thinker
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