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bodhitharta said:
Quote Of course thinker believes that everything Jesus said was part of the old covenant and we should not be following Christ's teachings. I make no apologies for what I believe. Explain Hebrews 6:1-6. It clearly says that we should LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ and move on to maturity. The book of Hebrews elsewhere calls Christ's teachings “milk” and that we should go on to the meat of biblical doctrine. Paul is the server of the meat. Jesus prepared us for Paul whom you say is a liar.
Example: Jesus taught that our being forgiven by God was conditional upon our forgiving others. This is old covenant. Paul taught that we forgive others because we have already been forgiven. This is new covenant. Hebrews 6 explicitly says that those who have entered into the new covenant age and afterwards draw back to the elementary teachings of Christ are apostates. It amounts to crucifying the Son of God again.
Paul is the final word on gospel truth. The teachings of Christ were only prepatory to Paul. We need to get with God's new covenant principles and not be bogged down by bodhitharta and other modern day Judaizers.
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 26 2009,21:45) bodhitharta said: Quote Of course thinker believes that everything Jesus said was part of the old covenant and we should not be following Christ's teachings. I make no apologies for what I believe. Explain Hebrews 6:1-6. It clearly says that we should LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ and move on to maturity. The book of Hebrews elsewhere calls Christ's teachings “milk” and that we should go on to the meat of biblical doctrine. Paul is the server of the meat. Jesus prepared us for Paul whom you say is a liar.
Example: Jesus taught that our being forgiven by God was conditional upon our forgiving others. This is old covenant. Paul taught that we forgive others because we have already been forgiven. This is new covenant. Hebrews 6 explicitly says that those who have entered into the new covenant age and afterwards draw back to the elementary teachings of Christ are apostates. It amounts to crucifying the Son of God again.
Paul is the final word on gospel truth. The teachings of Christ were only prepatory to Paul. We need to get with God's new covenant principles and not be bogged down by bodhitharta and other modern day Judaizers.
thinker
Hello thinker;May I point out that is is the NEW Covenant that points to the old? The Old covenant was a “Schoolmaster” to bring the Jews to Christ.
Without a strong working understanding of old testament truth, the New testament cannot be properly evaluated and understood.
The problem comes from people who do not understand this who try to make new testament rules from old testament laws. They do not apply.
While it is necessary for people to understand old testament events, once we understand them we must move on to higher things. We CANNOT bog down in old testament laws and commandments and events.
You have rightly spoken.
Paldain………..It 's the elementary doctrine (ABOUT CHRIST) it is talking about not the old covenant, Jesus told them to keep the commandments if they were to enter into life, none of the ten commandments have changed, just the way they are keep has, God writes them on our heart and minds by his spirit, instead of our own efforts accomplish it, it's done through the Spirit, we are to full fill them even as Jesus did. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
To all: Let it be known, Paul is not my lord! Jesus is lord of the New Covenant of God. Jesus is the Christ! Paul was a nobody saved by the grace of God through the revelation of Jesus. Jesus saved Paul! How can you say Paul is the Gospel of truth? Jesus is the Messiah that was to come.Paul wasn't the Messiah Paul didn't even know the truth until Jesus revealed it. Paul only knew the Old Testament, Jesus revealed the New way to Paul. The Old is passed, fulfilled and gone!! Thats why it is called old! Even today if one writes a will and later writes another new will it will supersede the previous will. If you follow any of the old Law you must follow all of it. If one jot or title is removed from the Law then all is fulfilled. Do we still sacrifice under the Law? Thats a major jot from the old law that we don't honor. If we don't then the Old is fulfilled (finished, complete)! TK
Quote (thethinker @ July 26 2009,21:45) bodhitharta said: Quote Of course thinker believes that everything Jesus said was part of the old covenant and we should not be following Christ's teachings. I make no apologies for what I believe. Explain Hebrews 6:1-6. It clearly says that we should LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ and move on to maturity. The book of Hebrews elsewhere calls Christ's teachings “milk” and that we should go on to the meat of biblical doctrine. Paul is the server of the meat. Jesus prepared us for Paul whom you say is a liar.
Example: Jesus taught that our being forgiven by God was conditional upon our forgiving others. This is old covenant. Paul taught that we forgive others because we have already been forgiven. This is new covenant. Hebrews 6 explicitly says that those who have entered into the new covenant age and afterwards draw back to the elementary teachings of Christ are apostates. It amounts to crucifying the Son of God again.
Paul is the final word on gospel truth. The teachings of Christ were only prepatory to Paul. We need to get with God's new covenant principles and not be bogged down by bodhitharta and other modern day Judaizers.
thinker
This is interesting. I tell you that Muhammad has come to further reveal the truth and give you the meat that couldn't be beared at the time of Paul and you say it's impossible but you readily dismiss the teachings of Jesus.Paul even said he knew things that they could not bear
Corinthians 3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Hebrews 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Now you have already stated that the newer covenant makes no distinction between Jew or Greek or whatever and therefore Muhammad would be eligible to get The Revelation as the ultimate promise of God was to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.
So yes Paul was sent to whom he was sent to and Muhammad was sent to the world at large for the Quran was not written for Arabs it is the Meat and restoration of the entire message of God in proper context.
It gives all the meat that was too strong for you it is even in revelation:
Revelation 10
1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
5And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon th e earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
There is no other book that has come after the Bible in the end times that Chistians and Jews take as bitter in the belly as The Quran which is a single little book with one author.
So what say you after Paul himself says
Hebrews 5 (English Standard Version)
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God.
The Quran are the basic principles of the oracles of God. Teaching the entire context of those oracles. From the most basic principle of there being ONLY ONE TRUE GOD that is ONE BEING and not 3, and continuing to the basic principles the Virgin Birth of Jesus who is the servant of God and the more adavnced revelations of God that God in-fact did save Jesus from the cross that is definitely the meat that most here does not want to stomach if that's not it then tell me what could you not bear?
Jesus The Christ was Saved by God just as God said
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
I have shown you that God does not accept human/child Sacrifice.
I have shown you atonement does not require blood or Sacrifice as evidenced by the Scapegoat that must be presented Alive before God
I have even shown you that God did not institute the sacrificial system:
Jeremiah 7:21-23 (King James Version)
21Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
This is the meat, this is the strong meat that you can't bear.
Hosea 6:5-7 (King James Version)
5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
but all of you believe that God has condemned his innocent son/servant but Jesus even testifies:
Matthew 12:6-8 (King James Version)
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Matthew 9:12-14 (King James Version)
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are
sick.13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
You see Jesus always had the Meat but Paul had to give the milk to the heathens so that they could find their way so he used the Cross as a light to the gentiles who were well aware and in tune with all the child sacrifice which they loved and Idol worship which they love and Paul made them followers of something greater and believe in God and turn away from evil just like Muhammad ended Idolatory and Created the Largest CLEAR CUT MONOTHEISTIC religion in THE WORLD.
Christianity has been pulverized with over 39,000 fragments
Leviticus 22:23-25 (King James Version)
24 Ye shall not offer unto the LORD that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut; neither shall ye make any offering thereof in your land.
Quote (Tim Kraft @ July 27 2009,03:34) To all: Let it be known, Paul is not my lord! Jesus is lord of the New Covenant of God. Jesus is the Christ! Paul was a nobody saved by the grace of God through the revelation of Jesus. Jesus saved Paul! How can you say Paul is the Gospel of truth? Jesus is the Messiah that was to come.Paul wasn't the Messiah Paul didn't even know the truth until Jesus revealed it. Paul only knew the Old Testament, Jesus revealed the New way to Paul. The Old is passed, fulfilled and gone!! Thats why it is called old! Even today if one writes a will and later writes another new will it will supersede the previous will. If you follow any of the old Law you must follow all of it. If one jot or title is removed from the Law then all is fulfilled. Do we still sacrifice under the Law? Thats a major jot from the old law that we don't honor. If we don't then the Old is fulfilled (finished, complete)! TK
But your Lord revealed His gospel to Paul. He claimed that his gospel came from Christ. Therefore, Paul is the FINAL word on gospel truth.thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,04:50) Quote (thethinker @ July 26 2009,21:45) bodhitharta said: Quote Of course thinker believes that everything Jesus said was part of the old covenant and we should not be following Christ's teachings. I make no apologies for what I believe. Explain Hebrews 6:1-6. It clearly says that we should LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ and move on to maturity. The book of Hebrews elsewhere calls Christ's teachings “milk” and that we should go on to the meat of biblical doctrine. Paul is the server of the meat. Jesus prepared us for Paul whom you say is a liar.
Example: Jesus taught that our being forgiven by God was conditional upon our forgiving others. This is old covenant. Paul taught that we forgive others because we have already been forgiven. This is new covenant. Hebrews 6 explicitly says that those who have entered into the new covenant age and afterwards draw back to the elementary teachings of Christ are apostates. It amounts to crucifying the Son of God again.
Paul is the final word on gospel truth. The teachings of Christ were only prepatory to Paul. We need to get with God's new covenant principles and not be bogged down by bodhitharta and other modern day Judaizers.
thinker
This is interesting. I tell you that Muhammad has come to further reveal the truth and give you the meat that couldn't be beared at the time of Paul and you say it's impossible but you readily dismiss the teachings of Jesus.Paul even said he knew things that they could not bear
Corinthians 3
1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
Hebrews 5
12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Now you have already stated that the newer covenant makes no distinction between Jew or Greek or whatever and therefore Muhammad would be eligible to get The Revelation as the ultimate promise of God was to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.
So yes Paul was sent to whom he was sent to and Muhammad was sent to the world at large for the Quran was not written for Arabs it is the Meat and restoration of the entire message of God in proper context.
It gives all the meat that was too strong for you it is even in revelation:
Revelation 10
1 And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3 And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
5And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon th e earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.
9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
There is no other book that has come after the Bible in the end times that Chistians and Jews take as bitter in the belly as The Quran which is a single little book with one author.
So what say you after Paul himself says
Hebrews 5 (English Standard Version)
12 For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God.
The Quran are the basic principles of the oracles of God. Teaching the entire context of those oracles. From the most basic principle of there being ONLY ONE TRUE GOD that is ONE BEING and not 3, and continuing to the basic principles the Virgin Birth of Jesus who is the servant of God and the more adavnced revelations of God that God in-fact did save Jesus from the cross that is definitely the meat that most here does not want to stomach if that's not it then tell me what could you not bear?
Jesus The Christ was Saved by God just as God said
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
I have shown you that God does not accept human/child Sacrifice.
I have shown you atonement does not require blood or Sacrifice as evidenced by the Scapegoat that must be presented Alive before God
I have even shown you that God did not institute the sacrificial system:
Jeremiah 7:21-23 (King James Version)
21Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Put your burnt offerings unto your sacrifices, and eat flesh.
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
This is the meat, this is the strong meat that you can't bear.
Hosea 6:5-7 (King James Version)
5 Therefore have I hewed them by the prophets; I have slain them by the words of my mouth: and thy judgments are as the light that goeth forth.
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
but all of you believe that God has condemned his innocent son/servant but Jesus even testifies:
Matthew 12:6-8 (King James Version)
6 But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple.
7 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye
would not have condemned the guiltless.Matthew 9:12-14 (King James Version)
12 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.
13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
You see Jesus always had the Meat but Paul had to give the milk to the heathens so that they could find their way so he used the Cross as a light to the gentiles who were well aware and in tune with all the child sacrifice which they loved and Idol worship which they love and Paul made them followers of something greater and believe in God and turn away from evil just like Muhammad ended Idolatory and Created the Largest CLEAR CUT MONOTHEISTIC religion in THE WORLD.
Christianity has been pulverized with over 39,000 fragments
Leviticus 22:23-25 (King James Version)
24 Ye shall not offer unto the LORD that which is bruised, or crushed, or broken, or cut; neither shall ye make any offering thereof in your land.
bd,
In your long and wordy post you did not deal with Hebrews 6. Here it is again,Quote 1Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do if God permits. 4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. It says that we are to leave the elementary doctrines of Christ. Are you going to deal with it or not? Christ's teachings were for the last generation of the old covenant age. paul's teachings are for the Christian church. And Paul's teachings were given by christ Himself. Stop trying to put people back under the bondage of the law. This is apostasy!
thinker
Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,03:27) Paldain………..It 's the elementary doctrine (ABOUT CHRIST) it is talking about not the old covenant, Jesus told them to keep the commandments if they were to enter into life, none of the ten commandments have changed, just the way they are keep has, God writes them on our heart and minds by his spirit, instead of our own efforts accomplish it, it's done through the Spirit, we are to full fill them even as Jesus did. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Gene,
You are confusing the issues. It is not the elementary doctrines ABOUT Christ. It is Christ's elementary teachings that we are to discard. It says that baptism, repentance, faith toward God, resurrection and judgment are all elementary teachings. We are to leave these and move on to perfection which is the spirit of the law.thinker
Hi TT,
Back to the basic teachings for you.
If you even knew Jesus as Lord you would not teach what he never taught.
He never said he was God or that God is some multipatite committee but you bravely plough on?Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,05:40) bd,
In your long and wordy post you did not deal with Hebrews 6. Here it is again,Quote 1Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do if God permits. 4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. It says that we are to leave the elementary doctrines of Christ. Are you going to deal with it or not? Christ's teachings were for the last generation of the old covenant age. paul's teachings are for the Christian church. And Paul's teachings were given by christ Himself. Stop trying to put people back under the bondage of the law. This is apostasy!
thinker
I did deal with Hebrew 6 it is about Backsliding
lookHebrews 6
7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. 10 For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. 11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
What Paul is saying is the same thing I tell people all the time, Why is it that we have to teach “Thou shalt not kill” to those who are already believers in other words preaching to the Choir is Vanity.
But then you forget the most crucial parts.
19 We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, 20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Notice Paul preaches that Jesus is a forerunner on our behalf not a God but instead a High Priest After the order of Melchezedek. God is not a high priest, Thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,09:23) Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,05:40) bd,
In your long and wordy post you did not deal with Hebrews 6. Here it is again,Quote 1Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do if God permits. 4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. It says that we are to leave the elementary doctrines of Christ. Are you going to deal with it or not? Christ's teachings were for the last generation of the old covenant age. paul's teachings are for the Christian church. And Paul's teachings were given by christ Himself. Stop trying to put people back under the bondage of the law. This is apostasy!
thinker
I did deal with Hebrew 6 it is about Backsliding
lookHebrews 6
7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. 10 For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. 11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
What Paul is saying is the same thing I tell people all the time, Why is it that we have to teach “Thou shalt not kill” to those who are already believers in other words preaching to the Choir is Vanity.
But then you forget the most crucial parts.
19 We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, 20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Notice Paul preaches that Jesus is a forerunner on our behalf not a God but instead a High Priest After the order of Melchezedek. God is not a high priest, Thinker
bd,
You didn't even touch verses 1-6. Why?thinker
Hi TT,
A priest of any order is not also the God or even a PART OF A COMMUNITY GOD to Whom he is a priest is he?Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,09:41) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,09:23) Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,05:40) bd,
In your long and wordy post you did not deal with Hebrews 6. Here it is again,Quote 1Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2and of instruction about washings, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And this we will do if God permits. 4For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. It says that we are to leave the elementary doctrines of Christ. Are you going to deal with it or not? Christ's teachings were for the last generation of the old covenant age. paul's teachings are for the Christian church. And Paul's teachings were given by christ Himself. Stop trying to put people back under the bondage of the law. This is apostasy!
thinker
I did deal with Hebrew 6 it is about Backsliding
lookHebrews 6
7 For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned.
9 Though we speak in this way, yet in your case, beloved, we feel sure of better things—things that belong to salvation. 10 For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do. 11 And we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness to have the full assurance of hope until the end, 12 so that you may not be sluggish, but imitators of those who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
What Paul is saying is the same thing I tell people all the time, Why is it that we have to teach “Thou shalt not kill” to those who are already believers in other words preaching to the Choir is Vanity.
But then you forget the most crucial parts.
19 We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, 20 where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Notice Paul preaches that Jesus is a forerunner on our behalf not a God but instead a High Priest After the order of Melchezedek. God is not a high priest, Thinker
bd,
You didn't even touch verses 1-6. Why?thinker
I not only touched verses 1-6 I showed and taught you that Paul was preaching to the choir that he ought not have to teach the choir repentance and all the most obvious teachings of Christ.Sometimes you just need to admit when you have been shown the truth otherwise you will go to hell because of your vanity.
bodhitharta said:
Quote I not only touched verses 1-6 I showed and taught you that Paul was preaching to the choir that he ought not have to teach the choir repentance and all the most obvious teachings of Christ. Sometimes you just need to admit when you have been shown the truth otherwise you will go to hell because of your vanity.
You showed nothing but assumed everything. Paul said that salvation is by faith alone. This is new covenant. Repentance is old covenant. This is why we are to leave that and move on to maturity. You do not have an ounce of God's new covenant ways in you. Hebrews 6 clearly says that we are to LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ. Repentance is one of those doctrines. The new covenant train has come. Get on board!
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,19:38) bodhitharta said: Quote I not only touched verses 1-6 I showed and taught you that Paul was preaching to the choir that he ought not have to teach the choir repentance and all the most obvious teachings of Christ. Sometimes you just need to admit when you have been shown the truth otherwise you will go to hell because of your vanity.
You showed nothing but assumed everything. Paul said that salvation is by faith alone. This is new covenant. Repentance is old covenant. This is why we are to leave that and move on to maturity. You do not have an ounce of God's new covenant ways in you. Hebrews 6 clearly says that we are to LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ. Repentance is one of those doctrines. The new covenant train has come. Get on board!
thinker
So when you sin you don't repent at allQuote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,20:00) Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,19:38) bodhitharta said: Quote I not only touched verses 1-6 I showed and taught you that Paul was preaching to the choir that he ought not have to teach the choir repentance and all the most obvious teachings of Christ. Sometimes you just need to admit when you have been shown the truth otherwise you will go to hell because of your vanity.
You showed nothing but assumed everything. Paul said that salvation is by faith alone. This is new covenant. Repentance is old covenant. This is why we are to leave that and move on to maturity. You do not have an ounce of God's new covenant ways in you. Hebrews 6 clearly says that we are to LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ. Repentance is one of those doctrines. The new covenant train has come. Get on board!
thinker
So when you sin you don't repent at all
“The just shall live by faith“thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,04:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,20:00) Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,19:38) bodhitharta said: Quote I not only touched verses 1-6 I showed and taught you that Paul was preaching to the choir that he ought not have to teach the choir repentance and all the most obvious teachings of Christ. Sometimes you just need to admit when you have been shown the truth otherwise you will go to hell because of your vanity.
You showed nothing but assumed everything. Paul said that salvation is by faith alone. This is new covenant. Repentance is old covenant. This is why we are to leave that and move on to maturity. You do not have an ounce of God's new covenant ways in you. Hebrews 6 clearly says that we are to LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ. Repentance is one of those doctrines. The new covenant train has come. Get on board!
thinker
So when you sin you don't repent at all
“The just shall live by faith“thinker
Do you pray and if so why since you believe it's elementary.Hi TT,
So Paul is closer to being your Lord than Jesus?
His words surpass those of the one he served, the Holy one of God?
I am sure Paul would warn you against such ignorance and take you back to The Lord of all, JesusQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 28 2009,07:40) Hi TT,
So Paul is closer to being your Lord than Jesus?
His words surpass those of the one he served, the Holy one of God?
I am sure Paul would warn you against such ignorance and take you back to The Lord of all, Jesus
Paul was the Lord's mouthpiece. Whatever Paul said the Lord said.thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 28 2009,07:10) Quote (thethinker @ July 28 2009,04:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ July 27 2009,20:00) Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,19:38) bodhitharta said: Quote I not only touched verses 1-6 I showed and taught you that Paul was preaching to the choir that he ought not have to teach the choir repentance and all the most obvious teachings of Christ. Sometimes you just need to admit when you have been shown the truth otherwise you will go to hell because of your vanity.
You showed nothing but assumed everything. Paul said that salvation is by faith alone. This is new covenant. Repentance is old covenant. This is why we are to leave that and move on to maturity. You do not have an ounce of God's new covenant ways in you. Hebrews 6 clearly says that we are to LEAVE the elementary doctrines of Christ. Repentance is one of those doctrines. The new covenant train has come. Get on board!
thinker
So when you sin you don't repent at all
“The just shall live by faith“thinker
Do you pray and if so why since you believe it's elementary.
Prayer is not mentioned as being among those doctrines we should leave. However, the “Lord's prayer” is not for today. We are not to pray for the kingdom to come now. It came when Christ was exalted to God's right hand. We are not required to forgive our brother to gain God's forgiveness now. We forgive our brother because we have already been forgiven. We don't say “Our Father who art in heaven” now. We have the spirit of adoption and He is in our hearts. He is immanent!We are not under the old covenant manner of prayer that Jesus gave His disciples. We are under the new covenant which says, “I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and I will remember their sins no more” (Heb.8:10-12). In the “Lord's prayer” this was not true. In the “Lord's prayer” God would remember your sins (Matt. 6:14). Therefore, the “Lord's prayer” is old covenant.
I pray according to God's new covenant principles. But in the worship service I will NOT cite the old covenant prayer that Jesus gave His disciples. The Father is NOT in heaven. He is in my heart. I do not ask for the kingdom to come. I am in the kingdom of God. I do not ask for forgiveness. I forgive BECAUSE I have been forgiven already.
thinker
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