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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,23:15) Hi LU,
The Lord is the Spirit.
If Jesus was a part of God why do you say we should worship him and his God?
Nick,
I say we should worship “them” because NOW we know the “arm of the Lord” is a separate being than the “Lord” that the arm is of.
Paul says that for us:
there is one God, the Father who is the “Lord” Himself (the One the arm is of.)
and
one Lord, Jesus Christ (the arm Himself).Together they are the same One God of the OT that the Jews were worshiping…the God with the outstretched arm.
Many just worship God without the outstretched arm and they will not know God as their Father because it takes the outstretched arm to make the way to a relationship of God being their Father. They will have a distant God.
NET ©
1John 2:23 Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. The person who confesses the Son has the Father also.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,23:42) Hi LU,
The arm is of power and Jesus healed.
Jesus also revealed the words and wisdom of God.
But only because of his submission and his mighty infilling with God's Spirit
Wow, Nick, I can't keep up with you but I will try to get to all your questions. Take a break over there in NZ…go check on your vines or something
The arm (the Son) was always submitted to the body (the Father) even back during creation.
Think of your own arm for example, it has bones and muscles maybe even really strong muscles
but if it were cut off, your arm would just lay there with useless really strong muscles, unable to do anything on its own. Apart from the Father, the Son could do nothing of Himself. Even having His own attributes (knowledge and will for ex.) He could not be useful sort of like your arm if it were cut off. Your arm would still have it's own attributes for strength and movement because the muscles, joints and bones would all still be there but your arm would be useless apart from the body.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,23:28) Hi LU,
So the child of Mary was the arm of God? Seemed an ordinary if knowlegeable boy.
Then God's Spirit was poured into him equipping him for ministry.
Of what relevance was his previous life to his ministry?
Nick,
You ask what the relevance of the Son's previous existence before Mary and to answer that you can look at what the “arm of the Lord” did in the OT.The Lord caused the heavens and the earth to come into being with His arm.
The Lord brought the Israelites out of Egypt with His arm.
To just name some biggies, those are two things that the arm helped to accomplish. How are those two jobs relevant to His ministry?? Well, there would be no ministry on earth if there was no earth, for starters, and the Egyptians would possibly still have the Israelites in bondage and I don't know what all the ramifications of that would be on His ministry.
Right Nick,
The arm of the Lord (the Son of God) did many things and through Jesus, the arm of the Lord (the Son of God) did and will do and is doing much more.Hi LU,
Because you can align the arm of the Lord [power of God] with Jesus in Isaiah does not give you carte blanche to assume all such references in scripture are to Jesus.God uses many instruments to show his power.
nick
LU ,like to be out of scriptures and worship what ever she feels like to do,
she has made up her mind that God as a arm and that at one point the arm his Christ ,to her it give the reason to worship Christ and go up the arm and so worship God the father,she will worship the Son if he likes it or not ,she as decided to do it that s all that counts.
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 25 2010,16:52) nick LU ,like to be out of scriptures and worship what ever she feels like to do,
she has made up her mind that God as a arm and that at one point the arm his Christ ,to her it give the reason to worship Christ and go up the arm and so worship God the father,she will worship the Son if he likes it or not ,she as decided to do it that s all that counts.
terraricca,
You are having an issue with the scriptures and the Lord God of Israel and probably a spirit of fear that you will make the Father angry if you worship Him and His Son. I hope you find freedom and the answers to your quests.Now regarding you view of what I stand for, I invite you to actually show me my faults and back up your views with scripture instead of just talking to others about them. Maybe even PM them to me. Do you think that would make God happier than just bashing me?
BTW, the arm of the Lord has been Christ since before creation. He still is.
Hi LU,
Christ means the anointed one.
He was anointed at the Jordan.
The anointing Spirit is eternal.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,16:29) Hi LU,
Because you can align the arm of the Lord [power of God] with Jesus in Isaiah does not give you carte blanche to assume all such references in scripture are to Jesus.God uses many instruments to show his power.
Hi Nick,
The power of God is not the arm of the Lord. The arm of the Lord is Christ yesterday, today and forever. It is by the power of the Lord that the arm of the Lord is powerful. It is also by the power of the Lord and by the name of His arm (Jesus) that we can be powerful for Him.Hi LU,
Jesus never taught there are two gods and he is one of them.
That is your deduction but it takes you away from truth.Jesus had no power except that which was given to him[Is53,acts10.38]
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2010,22:10) Hi LU,
Jesus never taught there are two gods and he is one of them.
That is your deduction but it takes you away from truth.Jesus had no power except that which was given to him[Is53,acts10.38]
Nick,
Angels are greater in might and power than men and the Son of God, before He became the Son of Man, was greater than the angels and after He was resurrected was once again exalted above the angels. Surely He had more might and power than the angels. The Son emptied Himself to become man. He gave up His power and might to become weak while He was a man.Quote 2 Peter 2:11
11 whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord.
NASUYou said that Jesus never taught there are two gods. Nick, Jesus barely taught us that He was the Messiah. He kept telling people not to tell anyone this or that of what He had done. It is the scriptures that were inspired by the Spirit that discloses that Jesus was God…John 1:1. Scriptures declare Him as mighty God. So your problem is with scriptures. Truth is found in the scriptures as well as what Jesus said. The Spirit is our teacher.
Hi LU,
Sort of mysterious. Jesus hid that he was part of the God of the Jews?
Who was the God that was in him?[2cor5]
Mystery babylon?Jn8.54
Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2010,13:59) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 25 2010,16:52) nick LU ,like to be out of scriptures and worship what ever she feels like to do,
she has made up her mind that God as a arm and that at one point the arm his Christ ,to her it give the reason to worship Christ and go up the arm and so worship God the father,she will worship the Son if he likes it or not ,she as decided to do it that s all that counts.
terraricca,
You are having an issue with the scriptures and the Lord God of Israel and probably a spirit of fear that you will make the Father angry if you worship Him and His Son. I hope you find freedom and the answers to your quests.Now regarding you view of what I stand for, I invite you to actually show me my faults and back up your views with scripture instead of just talking to others about them. Maybe even PM them to me. Do you think that would make God happier than just bashing me?
BTW, the arm of the Lord has been Christ since before creation. He still is.
LUwhat about those scriptures;
Lk 4:7 So if you worship me, it will all be yours.”
Lk 4:8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’’”Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”Ac 7:7 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves,’ God said, ‘and afterward they will come out of that country and worship me in this place.’
Ac 7:42 But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets:
“ ‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
Ac 7:43 You have lifted up the shrine of Molech
and the star of your god Rephan,
the idols you made to worship.
Therefore I will send you into exile’ beyond BabylonDo not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.
Col 2:23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
1Ti 2:10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship GodHeb 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe
Rev 14:7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Rev 22:9 But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”
Mt 15:9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’”
Mk 7:7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’Isa 29:13 The Lord says:
“These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is made up only of rules taught by men.Jer 13:10 These wicked people, who refuse to listen to my words, who follow the stubbornness of their hearts and go after other gods to serve and worship them, will be like this belt—completely useless!
Mal 3:18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Mal 3:18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
there is no were that Jesus says to worship him ,but he said to worship the father ONLY.
Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 27 2010,01:36) Terra, My support is with you.
A very concise and compelling compilation.
God Bless.
HI AJTHANKS HOW YOU DOING??
Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 26 2010,07:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 26 2010,13:59) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 25 2010,16:52) nick LU ,like to be out of scriptures and worship what ever she feels like to do,
she has made up her mind that God as a arm and that at one point the arm his Christ ,to her it give the reason to worship Christ and go up the arm and so worship God the father,she will worship the Son if he likes it or not ,she as decided to do it that s all that counts.
terraricca,
You are having an issue with the scriptures and the Lord God of Israel and probably a spirit of fear that you will make the Father angry if you worship Him and His Son. I hope you find freedom and the answers to your quests.Now regarding you view of what I stand for, I invite you to actually show me my faults and back up your views with scripture instead of just talking to others about them. Maybe even PM them to me. Do you think that would make God happier than just bashing me?
BTW, the arm of the Lord has been Christ since before creation. He still is.
LUwhat about those scriptures;
Lk 4:7 So if you worship me, it will all be yours.”
Lk 4:8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’’”Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”Ac 7:7 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves,’ God said, ‘and afterward they will come out of that country and worship me in this place.’
Ac 7:42 But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets:
“ ‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
Ac 7:43 You have lifted up the shrine of Molech
and the star of your god Rephan,
the idols you made to worship.
Therefore I will send you into exile’ beyond BabylonDo not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.
Col 2:23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
1Ti 2:10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship GodHeb 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe
Rev 14:7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.”
Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
Rev 22:9 But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”
Mt 15:9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’”
Mk 7:7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’Isa 29:13 The Lord says:
“These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is made up only of rules taught by men.Jer 13:10 These wicked people, who refuse to listen to my words, who follow the stubbornness of their hearts and go after other gods to serve and worship them, will be like this belt—completely useless!
Mal 3:18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Mal 3:18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
there is no were that Jesus says to worship him ,but he said to worship the father ONLY.
Hi terraricca,
You did well to come up with this collection. Thank you for your time. I will try to address your passages here.That which is in the quote boxes terraricca wrote:
Quote what about those scriptures;
Lk 4:7 So if you worship me, it will all be yours.”
Lk 4:8 Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.’’”Jesus is quoting the OT here and in the OT, God portrayed Himself as having an outstretched arm and that His outstretched arm was a part of Himself. We later find out when God reveals His arm that it is His Son. Even so, in the OT, they are portrayed as one God. Read here:
Is 51:9 Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the Lord; Awake as in the days of old, the generations of long ago. Was it not You who cut Rahab in pieces, Who pierced the dragon?
10 Was it not You who dried up the sea, The waters of the great deep; Who made the depths of the sea a pathway For the redeemed to cross over?Deut 4:34-39
34 “Or has a god tried to go to take for himself a nation from within another nation by trials, by signs and wonders and by war and by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm and by great terrors, as the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes?
35 “To you it was shown that you might know that the Lord, He is God; there is no other besides Him.
36 “Out of the heavens He let you hear His voice to discipline you; and on earth He let you see His great fire, and you heard His words from the midst of the fire.
37 “Because He loved your fathers, therefore He chose their descendants after them. And He personally brought you from Egypt by His great power,
38 driving out from before you nations greater and mightier than you, to bring you in and to give you their land for an inheritance, as it is today.
39 “Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the Lord, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other.
NASUQuote Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do kno
w, for salvation is from the Jews.
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Jn 4:24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”Did Jesus come to reveal Himself or to reveal the Father? You will not find Jesus revealing everything about Himself. Remember when Peter told Him that He was the Christ, the Son of the Living God and Jesus told Him that flesh and blood did not reveal that to him but his Father in heaven. The Father reveals the Son. The last book of the Bible is called the Revelation of Jesus Christ. While Jesus was on earth, everything about Him was not revealed.
Quote Ac 7:7 But I will punish the nation they serve as slaves,’ God said, ‘and afterward they will come out of that country and worship me in this place.’
Ac 7:42 But God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies. This agrees with what is written in the book of the prophets:
“ ‘Did you bring me sacrifices and offerings
forty years in the desert, O house of Israel?
Ac 7:43 You have lifted up the shrine of Molech
and the star of your god Rephan,
the idols you made to worship.
Therefore I will send you into exile’ beyond BabylonAgain, we see the One with the “outstretched arm” receiving worship:
2 Kings 17:36
36 “But the Lord, who brought you up from the land of Egypt with great power and with an outstretched arm, Him you shall fear, and to Him you shall bow yourselves down, and to Him you shall sacrifice.Quote Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.
Col 2:23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.I'm not sure of what your point is here. Jesus is not an angel. The Bible is clear about not worshiping angels but it never says not to worship the Son does it.
Quote 1Ti 2:10 but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God I'm not sure of your point here. Here is another translation of that verse:
1 Timothy 2:10
NET ©
but with good deeds, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God.Quote Heb 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverence and awe It was obviously acceptable for the God with the outstretched arm of the OT to receive worship.
Quote Rev 14:7 He said in a loud voice, “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water.” This is who made the heavens, the earth, the sea etc.:
Ps 136
136 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 2 Give thanks to the God of gods, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 3 Give thanks to the Lord of lords, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 4 To Him who alone does great wonders, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; 5 To Him who made the heavens with skill, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; 6 To Him who spread out the earth above the waters, For His lovingkindness is everlasting; 7 To Him who made the great lights, For His lovingkindness is everlasting: 8 The sun to rule by day, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 9 The moon and stars to rule by night, For His lovingkindness is everlasting. 10 To Him who smote the Egyptians in their firstborn, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 11 And brought Israel out from their midst, For His lovingkindness is everlasting, 12 With a strong hand and an outstretched arm, For His lovingkindness is everlasting.Heb 1:8-10
8 But of the Son He says, “YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER, AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM.
9 “YOU HAVE LOVED RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HATED LAWLESSNESS; THEREFORE GOD, YOUR GOD, HAS ANOINTED YOU WITH THE OIL OF GLADNESS ABOVE YOUR COMPANIONS.”
10 And, “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
NASUQuote Rev 22:9 But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!” Rev 19:10 At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”
This angel refers to Jesus as being the God of the spirits of the prophets in Rev. just 3 verses prior to above quote:
Rev 22:6-9
6 And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.
7 “And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.”
8 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things.
9 But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.”
NASURev 1:1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,
NASUQuote Mt 15:9 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’”
Mk 7:7 They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.’This is certainly not referring to anyone worshiping the Son and it being in vain.
Quote Isa 29:13 The Lord says:
“These people come near to me with their mouth
and honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
Their worship of me
is made up only of rules taught by men.Quote Jer 13:10 These wicked people, who refuse to listen to my words, who follow the stubbornness of their hearts and go after other gods to serve and worship them, will be like this belt—completely useless! Quote Mal 3:18 And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not. By now you should be able to see that all other gods referred to would certainly not include the arm of the Lord as a separate God from the God of Israel.
Quote there is no were that Jesus says to worship him, but he said to worship the father ONLY. It actually doesn't ever say to worship the Father ONLY. The word only is not there. And once again, the Son didn't come to fully reveal Himself but the Father would and will do that.
Blessings,
KathiHi Kathi,
I haven't followed this “arm of God” thinking of yours thoroughly. I will say that by the statements you make like…
Quote Again, we see the One with the “outstretched arm” receiving worship: And:
Quote It was obviously acceptable for the God with the outstretched arm of the OT to receive worship. …it doesn't look like you're showing that it is acceptable for Jesus to be worshipped, but the God with the outstretched arm.
You quote Deut:
Quote trials, by signs and wonders and by war and by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm and by great terrors, Is Jesus also the “signs, wonders, war, mighty hand, and great terrors”?
You said:
Quote Jesus is not an angel. The Bible is clear about not worshiping angels but it never says not to worship the Son does it. The Bible and Jesus in particular are clear about who to worship – God. And considering “angel” means “messenger”, you could be correct in saying Jesus was an angel.
Quote John 13:16 NIV
I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.I think Jesus was always greater than the “angels of God”, but he too is “of God”. He is a servant of the same God we are to serve. And he was a messenger of his God. Maybe the Scripture about the worship of angels meant, “Don't worship the messengers of God, but only the God who sent them.”
You quoted:
Quote Rev 22:6-9
6 And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.But you should have started one verse earlier:
Quote 5There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever. 6The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.” In context, it is clear that the second bolded Lord is the same as the first bolded Lord. Remember that the revelation has God Almighty as it's ultimate source.
You said:
Quote This is certainly not referring to anyone worshiping the Son and it being in vain. Jesus said:
Quote John 17:3 NIV
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.And this “only true God” is the one that Jesus repeatedly points people to and says to worship. Doesn't that imply that we must exclude the worship of any other god or idol? Even if it is “the only true God's” Son?
peace and love,
mike
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