The only god who is

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2010,16:58)

Nick, The Lord of glory is not just a lord like you seem to think.  If God made Jesus not only the messiah but the Lord also, then He should be worshiped.  The fact that Jesus is Lord has kept many Jews from believing in Him because they can't accept it either, like you can't seem to.  They expected the messiah to just be a man, not Lord. Acts 2:36 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ — this Jesus whom you crucified.” NASU

Hi LU,
So his God made him the anointed one and the Lord of all.
He has all authority given to him.
Praise God.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2010,11:52)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2010,18:00) Mike, Well, I didn't make it to sleep yet.  I had to see if I could easily answer your question and here is a website that will show you that the Jews expected a man. Quote   The Mashiach The mashiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The mashiach is often referred to as “mashiach ben David” (mashiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being. It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the mashiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the mashiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the mashiach, then that person is not the mashiach. From: http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm Now, goodnight for sure! Kathi Hi Kathi, Hope you finally got some sleep!   I know it was midnight in AZ and you were still on in TN. I don't know anything about the writings you quoted but I would like to make two points. 1.  The writings you quoted don't seem to take into account that God foretold through Isaiah that the Messiah would be called “Mighty God”. 2.  If you are to believe these writings, then you have to admit that this part, But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being, shoots down your idea that people worshipped Jesus as something other than a man when he was on earth. peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,
Yep I got some sleep. I was up waiting for my college kids to get home for Spring break.

I can understand your thoughts about this statement:

Quote

1. The writings you quoted don't seem to take into account that God foretold through Isaiah that the Messiah would be called “Mighty God”.

I read it several places on the net that the Jews expected just a man who would be a strong political leader and become king and reign and place the Jews into a powerful position over all the nations. When this didn't happen…well, Jesus was just sort of an embarrassment for them. Jesus was not who they expected. They wanted an earthly hero, someone mightier than any king. They didn't expect the Son of God to show up at all and in such a lowly position. They were looking for a mighty man that came in the line of David and born in the City of David. They were looking for a powerful political king. They had tunnel vision and could not get past their pre-conceived notions. Because they were looking for a man, when this supernatural stuff was starting to happen, they thought that Jesus was from satan and was there to deceive them. To the Jews, Jesus did not fit their ideas of how the prophecies were going to be fulfilled.

Like here on HN, we have pre-conceived ideas about the future prophecies and how they will be carried out. If we lean on our own understanding then we might miss the hand of God like the Jews did. For instance, if we are convinced that the trinity is wrong and the “two witnesses” show up teaching the trinity, well those of us that are convinced that the trinity is in error will have nothing to do with the two witnesses and visa versa. If trinitarians are indeed wrong in their perceptions and the two witnesses are teaching that the Godhead is made up of the Father and the Son and that the Son is indeed to be worshiped, well, you and others on here will disregard that and be convinced that they are from satan and trying to deceive people.

So…I can understand how the Jews missed their Messiah. They would not accept that the Gentiles would be God's people too or that they would have to wait till after the Messiah died to get all the prophecies fulfilled. They knew that a man could not pay for the sacrifices of even one man, let alone all mankind because of their scriptures. (That is why God had to send His own Son and not another man, I assume.) They knew that God hated human sacrifice and therefore could not accept that God was behind the crucifixion of a man as a sacrifice (another reason that the Son was not just a man). They also knew that God could not die and that is another reason that Jesus was not the Most High God but instead, the Son of the Most High God, imo.

Now about the blind man who worshiped…once again, the Jews did try to stone Jesus in that story.

Don't you wonder why the word “worship” is in the John/Angel account in Rev. in the NWT when that one could have be merely an act of honor to be in line with your view? Translator bias imo.

But this is interesting, in the story of Cornelius and Peter, where Cornelius bows down to Peter, the word is translated as “obeisance” in the NWT and Peter still forbids it and tells him not to do that because he is just a man.

Quote

Acts 10:25 As Peter entered, Cornelius met him, fell down at his feet and did obeisance to him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying: “Rise; I myself am also a man.”

So, I think that you have a problem with your view. Even if the word was “obeisance” that was shown to Jesus, He should have not received it like Peter did not, if Jesus was just a man.

Blessings,
Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2010,02:07)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2010,16:58) Nick, The Lord of glory is not just a lord like you seem to think.  If God made Jesus not only the messiah but the Lord also, then He should be worshiped.  The fact that Jesus is Lord has kept many Jews from believing in Him because they can't accept it either, like you can't seem to.  They expected the messiah to just be a man, not Lord. Acts 2:36 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ — this Jesus whom you crucified.” NASU Hi LU, Do we decide what is right? Then whom do we serve?

Nick,
We serve both of them. I can't even imagine telling you just to serve the Father and not Jesus or visa versa. They will not lead us in two different directions.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2010,13:39)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2010,16:58) Nick, The Lord of glory is not just a lord like you seem to think.  If God made Jesus not only the messiah but the Lord also, then He should be worshiped.  The fact that Jesus is Lord has kept many Jews from believing in Him because they can't accept it either, like you can't seem to.  They expected the messiah to just be a man, not Lord. Acts 2:36 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ — this Jesus whom you crucified.” NASU Hi LU, So his God made him the anointed one and the Lord of all. He has all authority given to him. Praise God.

Nick,
What does that mean to you that God made Him Lord? What do you think the term “the Lord of glory” means?

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
He is given authority over all men…. and will judge them too.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
He has triumphed.
His God has given him glory.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2010,15:37)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2010,02:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 07 2010,16:58) Nick, The Lord of glory is not just a lord like you seem to think.  If God made Jesus not only the messiah but the Lord also, then He should be worshiped.  The fact that Jesus is Lord has kept many Jews from believing in Him because they can't accept it either, like you can't seem to.  They expected the messiah to just be a man, not Lord. Acts 2:36 36 “Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ — this Jesus whom you crucified.” NASU Hi LU, Do we decide what is right? Then whom do we serve? Nick, We serve both of them.  I can't even imagine telling you just to serve the Father and not Jesus or visa versa.  They will not lead us in two different directions.

LU

you say;We serve both of them. I can't even imagine telling you just to serve the Father and not Jesus or visa versa. They will not lead us in two different directions

we should serve God then we never fail, Christ does only what the father does, the first hand is God the second hand is Christ.

just for clarification

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 08 2010,15:23)

Hi Kathi,

You said:

Quote

Now about the blind man who worshiped…once again, the Jews did try to stone Jesus in that story.

Not for the worship thing. Don't try to mislead. Besides, that just enhances my point. They were looking so hard to find a reason to kill Jesus, and here was a man worshipping him right in front of their eyes.

You said:

Quote

Don't you wonder why the word “worship” is in the John/Angel account in Rev. in the NWT when that one could have be merely an act of honor to be in line with your view? Translator bias imo.

Without a doubt there is bias in any Bible IMO. The NWT is no different. But if they had put “obeisance” in Rev, it wouldn't make sense for the angel to say “worship God.”

You said:

Quote

But this is interesting, in the story of Cornelius and Peter, where Cornelius bows down to Peter, the word is translated as “obeisance” in the NWT and Peter still forbids it and tells him not to do that because he is just a man.

Peter was not a king. King David didn't forbid it in 2 Samuel 1.
Jesus, on the other hand, was most definitely the King of the Jews.

peace and love,
mike

[glad tidings]

Hello Mike,

You make some good points. Perhaps you'd be interested in perusing this website for some additional material in your studies of monotheism:

http://www.christianmonotheism.com There's a good debate between Sean Finnegan and Brant Wasserman on this site.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (glad tidings @ Mar. 10 2010,11:14)

Hello Mike, You make some good points.  Perhaps you'd be interested in perusing this website for some additional material in your studies of monotheism: http://www.christianmonotheism.com    There's a good debate between Sean Finnegan and Brant Wasserman on this site.

Hi GT,

Thanks, I will.

peace and love,
mike

[Lightenup]

Hi Mike,
I told you that I have been interested in the Jewish perspective lately. Recently God has highlighted the “outstretched arm” of God to me. The Jews saw God as one being with an outstretched arm and that is who they worshiped. I am once again seeing the significance of that outstretched arm revealed as the Son of God and lo and behold I realized that the Jews have been worshiping the Father and the Son all along yet they don't know it.

God bless,
Kathi

[mikeboll64]

Hi Kathi,

Long time, no talk.

You should just be glad you're saying that here and now, not in front of the Pharisees.

peace and love,
mike

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2010,14:00)

Hi Mike, I told you that I have been interested in the Jewish perspective lately.  Recently God has highlighted the “outstretched arm” of God to me.  The Jews saw God as one being with an outstretched arm and that is who they worshiped.  I am once again seeing the significance of that outstretched arm revealed as the Son of God and lo and behold I realized that the Jews have been worshiping the Father and the Son all along yet they don't know it. God bless, Kathi

Hi LU,
Acts 10.38 explains how the works of Jesus were those of God in him.
That anointing happened at the Jordan.

[Lightenup]

Hi Mike,
Yes it has been a while. About the Pharisees…I do think the spirit of the Pharisees are among some of our most regular members of HN and they have had a problem with the whole outstretched arm of the Lord being the Son. Too bad really because it really helps explain things.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 23 2010,23:54)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 24 2010,14:00) Hi Mike, I told you that I have been interested in the Jewish perspective lately.  Recently God has highlighted the “outstretched arm” of God to me.  The Jews saw God as one being with an outstretched arm and that is who they worshiped.  I am once again seeing the significance of that outstretched arm revealed as the Son of God and lo and behold I realized that the Jews have been worshiping the Father and the Son all along yet they don't know it. God bless, Kathi Hi LU, Acts 10.38 explains how the works of Jesus were those of God in him. That anointing happened at the Jordan.

Nick,
Jesus' ministry and the signs, wonders and miracles started after the Jordan but the works that God did through the Son of God, who came to dwell within Jesus, began at creation. Heb 1.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
The LORD is the Spirit.
Jesus in the NT is the Lord of all.
Jesus is only alive in the Spirit and now any reference to him is also to the Spirit.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,00:22)

Hi LU, The LORD is the Spirit. Jesus in the NT is the Lord of all. Jesus is only alive in the Spirit and now any reference to him is also to the Spirit.

Nick,
Would you mind showing me the scripture ref. for the Lord is the Spirit.
Thanks!

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
2Cor3.17

This is the great understanding Paul came to that explains jn 14 18-23

[Lightenup]

Thanks Nick,
It is too late to decipher this now…maybe later.
Goodnight

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 24 2010,00:43)

Hi LU, 2Cor3.17 This is the great understanding Paul came to that explains jn 14 18-23

Nick,
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here in regards to the discussion. Do you want to expand on your thoughts?

[Author]

Posts