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Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 04 2010,17:33) Quote (Lightenup @ April 05 2010,08:41) EdJ,
Are you only going to recognize part of the Godhead when you bow down? Jesus isn't your Lord? Isn't the Father-God? Isn't Jesus the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father…that would make two Gods and those two Gods make up our ONE Godhead together with the Holy Spirit of the Father.If Jesus is the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father, then Peter could be correct in calling Him “our God and Savior, Jesus Christ” whether or not He did call Him that. I believe He did call Him that and you are the one messing with scriptures because you do not recognize the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father. They are both a whole lot greater than you are or anything you can even think of…aren't they!
John 1:18
Context
NET ©
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
Hi Kathi,IMO things get confusing enough discerning whether we're talking about Jesus or Jehovah when the “g's” get capitalized in the word “god”. But now you and thinker are capping all the pronouns, too. The Hebrews and Greeks didn't distinguish between upper and lower case letters. And to capitalize words referring to Jehovah is an understandable sign of respect. You agree that the Father is greater, so maybe you can save the caps for only Him. Just my thoughts.
peace and love,
mikeP.S. There is no such thing as a godhead.
Hi Mike,
Well, you know that I believe that Jesus is God as the Son of God would be and I worship Him and the Father, I think I will continue to capitalize the “G” but I surely won't when referring to anyone else that is referred to as god. All other gods were not our creator. The Father and Son were.Why do you say that there is no Godhead? The Son is called Jehovah also, btw.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 05 2010,08:41) EdJ,
Are you only going to recognize part of the Godhead when you bow down? Jesus isn't your Lord? Isn't the Father-God? Isn't Jesus the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father…that would make two Gods and those two Gods make up our ONE Godhead together with the Holy Spirit of the Father.If Jesus is the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father, then Peter could be correct in calling Him “our God and Savior, Jesus Christ” whether or not He did call Him that. I believe He did call Him that and you are the one messing with scriptures because you do not recognize the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father. They are both a whole lot greater than you are or anything you can even think of…aren't they!
John 1:18
Context
NET ©
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
Hi Lightenup,Isn't it funny how some people keep arguing over the same garbage
over and over and over again and again and again.First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH)
Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus)[אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord” or “Owner”“YOU” CANNOT argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner)
I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”.
The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה].The names have been changed to protect the innocent! (Acts.18:15)
In the red corner it's “The Trinitarian” VERSUS “The non-Trinitarians”
in the blue corner: in a nonsensical useless battle over word structures.
This nonsensical fight is merely over word structures like master, king, Lord, Creator and God.
I will illustrate just how ridiculous their fight is: it's like the Abbot and Costello skit: who's on first!
I will illustrate my point using the term “Owner”, because this word adds clarity that the others lack.The Trinitarians say: Jesus is “The Owner”.
The non-Trinitarians reply: Jesus is NOT “The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!The Same issue: A Closer Examination
Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”!
This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”!Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”.
Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”!
A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies,
which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE!Now Change “The Word“, (Ha Ha Ha, ha ha ha) GET IT; That's exactly what both sides are doing!
They change “THE WORD” with useless substitutes like [†] master, King, Lord, Creator and God.
In this matter “The Word”(HolySpirit) is clear! 1Thess.4:8 He therefore that despiseth,
Here despiseth not man, but “GOD“, who hath also given unto us HIS HOLY SPIRIT.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS. For more on this Click HereLU
wen you start to believe on your own the way God should be ,have to be in your likes,and in you ignorance you make the story up,and declared your self enlighten, maybe you are, but not by God the father light,
what you believe is of very little consequence to God or the truth,it is to us to accept Gods words not to change it,
if we preach another gospel then we become liars.this is what you doing LU.you may find yourself cursed like Paul said.change course.
Quote (Ed J @ April 04 2010,18:20) Quote (Lightenup @ April 05 2010,08:41) EdJ,
Are you only going to recognize part of the Godhead when you bow down? Jesus isn't your Lord? Isn't the Father-God? Isn't Jesus the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father…that would make two Gods and those two Gods make up our ONE Godhead together with the Holy Spirit of the Father.If Jesus is the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father, then Peter could be correct in calling Him “our God and Savior, Jesus Christ” whether or not He did call Him that. I believe He did call Him that and you are the one messing with scriptures because you do not recognize the only God who is in closest fellowship with the Father. They are both a whole lot greater than you are or anything you can even think of…aren't they!
John 1:18
Context
NET ©
No one has ever seen God. The only one, himself God, who is in closest fellowship with the Father, has made God known.
Hi Lightenup,Isn't it funny how some people keep arguing over the same garbage
over and over and over again and again and again.First: [יהוה] YÄ-hä-vā translates directly into English as YHVH. (AKJV Bible: JEHOVAH)
Secondly: [יהשוע] YÄ-shü-ă translates directly into English as Joshua. (AKJV Bible: Jesus)[אדני] Âdônây in Hebrew means: “Lord” or “Owner” and is akin to
[Κύριος] kü-rē-ŏs in Greek meaning “The Same”: “Lord” or “Owner”“YOU” CANNOT argue with this “Bible Truth”! (LORD: means Owner)
I will orchestrate my explanation around the term “Owner”.
The AKJV Bible uses: Lord for [יהשוע] and LORD for [יהוה].The names have been changed to protect the innocent! (Acts.18:15)
In the red corner it's “The Trinitarian” VERSUS “The non-Trinitarians”
in the blue corner: in a nonsensical useless battle over word structures.
This nonsensical fight is merely over word structures like master, king, Lord, Creator and God.
I will illustrate just how ridiculous their fight is: it's like the Abbot and Costello skit: who's on first!
I will illustrate my point using the term “Owner”, because this word adds clarity that the others lack.The Trinitarians say: Jesus is “The Owner”.
The non-Trinitarians reply: Jesus is NOT “The Owner”, Jesus' Father is “The Owner”!The Same issue: A Closer Examination
Technically Jesus is: “owner” but NOT “THE OWNER”!
This can be clearly seen and understood using the word “Owner”!Jehovah is “The Owner” and Jesus is The Son of “The Owner”.
Jehovah CANNOT DIE, so Jehovah will ALWAYS remain “The Owner”!
A Son can 'only' become become fully “The Owner” if the Parent dies,
which in JEHOVAH's case cannot happen; because GOD CANNOT DIE!Now Change “The Word“, (Ha Ha Ha, ha ha ha) GET IT; That's exactly what both sides are doing!
They change “THE WORD” with useless substitutes like [†] master, King, Lord, Creator and God.
In this matter “The Word”(HolySpirit) is clear! 1Thess.4:8 He therefore that despiseth,
Here despiseth not man, but “GOD“, who hath also given unto us HIS HOLY SPIRIT.Witnessing to the world in behalf of…
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! (Psalm 45:17)
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
PS. For more on this Click Here
Hi EdJ,I tend to agree that semantics underlies much of the confusion here and the Holy Spirit can clear that up.
Quote (terraricca @ April 04 2010,19:26) LU wen you start to believe on your own the way God should be ,have to be in your likes,and in you ignorance you make the story up,and declared your self enlighten, maybe you are, but not by God the father light,
what you believe is of very little consequence to God or the truth,it is to us to accept Gods words not to change it,
if we preach another gospel then we become liars.this is what you doing LU.you may find yourself cursed like Paul said.change course.
1 Cor 12:3
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
NASUQuote (Lightenup @ April 05 2010,13:34) Quote (terraricca @ April 04 2010,19:26) LU wen you start to believe on your own the way God should be ,have to be in your likes,and in you ignorance you make the story up,and declared your self enlighten, maybe you are, but not by God the father light,
what you believe is of very little consequence to God or the truth,it is to us to accept Gods words not to change it,
if we preach another gospel then we become liars.this is what you doing LU.you may find yourself cursed like Paul said.change course.
1 Cor 12:3
3 Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
NASU
LUyou try to tell me that just by saying those words i now be in the truth,
thats not what it says,read it again.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Mar. 07 2010,09:45) The NWT translators were not “Hebrew and Greek” scholars at all, therefore their translation is questionable!
It's more than questionable brother Keith. It isn't a translation at all that would infer that credentialled tranlators worked on it. It's a paraphrase designed to propagate watchtower doctrines.Hi Lightenup
Let me say that you have demonstrated an INCREDIBLE level of patience in this thread. I'm highly impressed. Always like reading your posts which are refreshingly concise on this site.Blessings
IsHa ha,, Is1…
Satan knows how to keep his house united.
Show them the broad road and promise them ease and comfort during their journey to destruction..cos it's the only chance for you to enjoy it.
'Eat [the synthetic food of sin], drink [the teeth rotting sugared wine], for tomorrow you die'Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2010,20:13) Hi Lightenup
Let me say that you have demonstrated an INCREDIBLE level of patience in this thread. I'm highly impressed. Always like reading your posts which are refreshingly concise on this site.Blessings
Is
Is1if you feel like you look on your picture ,no wander that you cant see strait.
truth is not coming out of you.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2010,04:13) Hi Lightenup
Let me say that you have demonstrated an INCREDIBLE level of patience in this thread. I'm highly impressed. Always like reading your posts which are refreshingly concise on this site.Blessings
Is
Welcome back Is,Thank you for your encouragement…if I have done anything worthy of praise it is by the grace and strength of God within me. You have watered parched ground!
May all your camels prosper
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ April 05 2010,09:49) Why do you say that there is no Godhead? The Son is called Jehovah also, btw.
Hi Kathi,Where?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ April 05 2010,19:22) Quote (Lightenup @ April 05 2010,09:49) Why do you say that there is no Godhead? The Son is called Jehovah also, btw.
Hi Kathi,Where?
peace and love,
mike
Hi Mike,
I will show you where I think the Son is called Jehovah. Will you tell me why you say there is no “Godhead.”This is one reason:
Quote Gen 18:1-19:1
18 And the Lord (Jehovah) appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.6 And Abraham hastened into the tent unto Sarah, and said, Make ready quickly three measures of fine meal, knead it, and make cakes upon the hearth.7 And Abraham ran unto the herd, and fetcht a calf tender and good, and gave it unto a young man; and he hasted to dress it.8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set it before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.9 And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.11 Now Abraham and Sarah were old and well stricken in age; and it ceased to be with Sarah after the manner of women.12 Therefore Sarah laughed within herself, saying, After I am waxed old shall I have pleasure, my lord being old also?13 And the Lord(Jehovah) said unto Abraham, Wherefore did Sarah laugh, saying, Shall I of a surety bear a child, which am old?14 Is any thing too hard for the Lord (Jehovah)? At the time appointed I will return unto thee, according to the time of life, and Sarah shall have a son.15 Then Sarah denied, saying, I laughed not; for she was afraid. And he said, Nay; but thou didst laugh.16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.17 And the Lord (Jehovah) said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;18 Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation, and all the nations of the earth shall be blessed in him?19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, (Jehovah) to do justice and judgment; that the Lord (Jehovah)may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.20 And the Lord (Jehovah) said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the Lord (Jehovah).23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that are therein?25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?26 And the Lord (Jehovah)said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.27 And Abraham answered and said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord, which am but dust and ashes:28 Peradventure there shall lack five of the fifty righteous: wilt thou destroy all the city for lack of five? And he said, If I find there forty and five, I will not destroy it.29 And he spake unto him yet again, and said, Peradventure there shall be forty found there. And he said, I will not do it for forty's sake.30 And he said unto him, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak: Peradventure there shall thirty be found there. And he said, I will not do it, if I find thirty there.31 And he said, Behold now, I have taken upon me to speak unto the Lord: Peradventure there shall be twenty found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for twenty's sake.32 And he said, Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak yet but this once: Peradventure ten shall be found there. And he said, I will not destroy it for ten's sake.33 And the Lord(Jehovah) went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham: and Abraham returned unto his place.1
KJVObviously the Jehovah in this passage is being seen and heard by Abraham. Many consider Him the pre-incarnate Jesus. Who do you think He is? Keep in mind that no one has seen the Father.
No Nick, there is no mention of the third “man” being an angel. Sorry! The other two, we are told they were angels.
Hi LU,
True,
So in what way was the other different and what would you assume from this?Almighty God is neither a man nor an angel.
But He uses vessels such as the man Jesus and His angels.Hi LU,
Jesus was not a demigod or god who appeared on earth before being born of Mary.
The Lord IS the Spirit.Nick,
Jesus is:
John 1:18NET ©
No one has ever seen God. The only one, 1 himself God, who is in closest fellowship with 2 the Father, has made God 3 known. 4NIV ©
No-one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.NASB ©
No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.NLT ©
No one has ever seen God. But his only Son, who is himself God, is near to the Father’s heart; he has told us about him.John 8:57-58
57 So the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.”
NASUSeems like you are wrong again. Here we read that Jesus is the only God at the side of the Father and He existed before Abraham was even born and that Abraham had seen Him.
He sure wasn't a mere man like you seem to think. A mere righteous man cannot die for all men as a sacrifice for all their sins past, present and future. I have already shown you that passage so don't act like you have never been made aware of that. I also have shown you that the man speaking to Abraham was not an angel but you brought that up again. Do you like not learning?
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