The only god who is

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,07:28)

Jesus is not an angel…they were made through Him, see Col. 1.  He made all things in heaven, visible and invisible, remember.

Hi Kathi,

No, all things were made BY God THROUGH Jesus.  And although Jesus is the only creation of God that was begotten directly from God, there is no indication that he was more powerful than the angels or different from them in any other way than that of his beginning that I've ever found.  Eventually the angels will do obeisance to him as will everyone else, for “all knees will bow”.

If Jesus was created so much higher than the angels and everything else that was created through him, why is it that God has to put everything under his feet so he can subdue?

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2010,16:21)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,06:35) Jesus IS the outstretched arm.  Isaiah sees this and writes about it and is confirmed in John. Hi Kathi, I should have rephrased it.  Where is “the outstretched arm” worshipped as God Almighty?

Mike,
The outstretched arm isn't ever worshiped apart from God Almighty in the OT. God Almighty is worshiped as the God with the outstretched arm and seen as ONE. The Jews understood that as one being but in the NT, it is revealed that the outstretched arm is actually the Son of God which makes God, two beings. One greater than the other.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,08:25)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2010,16:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,06:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2010,12:27) One more thought, Kathi: You say it never says to worship God “ONLY”, but Jesus quotes Deut in saying: Quote Matthew 4:10 NIV Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' [ Deut. 6:13] “ Sounds clear to me. Hi Mike, No, I never said that.  I said that it never says to worship the “Father” ONLY. Hi Kathi, Who do you think Jesus was talking to Satan about if not the One he called “the Father”? Mike, Jesus was talking about the Lord God of the OT.  He is quoting the OT in this passage.  The Lord God of the OT is the one with the outstretched arm as I have shown you.

Yes Kathi, the one WITH the arm – not the arm itself.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Do you think the OT God is not the NT God?

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2010,16:28)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,07:28) Jesus is not an angel…they were made through Him, see Col. 1.  He made all things in heaven, visible and invisible, remember. Hi Kathi, No, all things were made BY God THROUGH Jesus.  And although Jesus is the only creation of God that was begotten directly from God, there is no indication that he was more powerful than the angels or different from them in any other way than that of his beginning that I've ever found.  Eventually the angels will do obeisance to him as will everyone else, for “all knees will bow”. If Jesus was created so much higher than the angels and everything else that was created through him, why is it that God has to put everything under his feet so he can subdue?

Mike,

Isa 40:10-11
10 Behold, the Lord God will come with might, With His arm ruling for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him And His recompense before Him.
11 Like a shepherd He will tend His flock, In His arm He will gather the lambs And carry them in His bosom; He will gently lead the nursing ewes.
NASU

The arm didn't always rule. Now He does.

Col 1:16-18
16 For by Him (the Son) all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him.
17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.
18 He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
NASU

I agree that the Father created through the Son but also by His Son. The Son was as a master craftsman.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2010,16:32)

Do you think the OT God is not the NT God?

Mike,

The OT God is the NT God but less revealed.

[Lightenup]

Mike,

You said:

Jesus said:
Quote
John 17:3 NIV
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

And this “only true God” is the one that Jesus repeatedly points people to and says to worship. Doesn't that imply that we must exclude the worship of any other god or idol? Even if it is “the only true God's” Son?

In the above context the Father is the only true God. Also in the context Jesus is included in who we need to know. I believe that in some contexts the word “God” or theos can mean Godhead and in other contexts theos can mean just the Father or just the Son, i.e. “mighty God.” Context is important.

I do think that worshiping Jesus as the Father instead of the Son is an error.

[Elizabeth]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 01 2010,11:35)

Quote (Elizabeth @ Feb. 28 2010,06:23) Let me give you my two cents.  Jesus is not only the firstborn of all creation in Col, 1:15 and Rev, 3:14, but He is also called God,  John 1:1 and Hebrew 1:8-9 Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;   John 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   Jesus never claimed to be the Jehovah God however,  The word God is  title and many at that time were called God's.  Even Satan was called God.   He is the begotten Son of God.  In Proverbs 8:22-30 all talk about Jesus and the Wisdom of Jesus.  Wisdom is not born here, because Wisdom could never be a master craftsman.  In verse 25 it says that He was brought forth.(Jesus) He is the Son of God, however if we think about it, we too are the Sons of God and in Corinth. 15:28……so that God may be all in all.  If you believe that God is  title or a Family name it is easy to understand that neither begotten Son or the Word God, is all talking about Jesus, and is not contradicting at all like some might think. Let me also give you a Scripture that tells of the Word in Rev. 19:13 “He was clothed with a rob dipped in blood, and His Name is the Word of God.  I see that the Word became Jesus,  John 1:14  and when He went back what He was before, He is called the Word of God again. John 17:5 “And now O Father glorify Me together with Yourself with the glory I had with You before the world was.  At least that is what it looks like to me, because of the Scripture in Rev. 19:13  I could be wrong about that, I always say time will tell. But it does make sense to me, John !:! before He became flesh in verse 14 He does.  Then He asks His Father that He wants to go back were He was before in John 17:5. I also believe that He was not deity before He became man.  Deity cannot die.  But Jesus now has deity and never will die again….It all was the Plan of Jehovah God.  God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that through Him all will be saveth.  God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world but that through Him all may be saveth…..Thanks to both the Word and Jehovah God.  Praise the LORD forever……. Peace and Love Irene Hi Irene, Thanks for your two cents I agree with a lot of what you say except I think that Jesus was deity from the beginning as John 1:1 tells us. The scriptures do say that God cannot die but I think that is referring to the Most High God.  I'm guessing here, but, if the Most High God died then creation could not continue for a second.  That is why the Son had to come and not the Father.  But again, that is just my thoughts on the matter. Love, Kathi

Kathi! Like I said before, if Jesus was Deity before He became a man, He could not have died. Deity means that He or the Father will never die. Jesus however now has Deity and will never die again….. We do know that Jehovah God cannot die, and if Jesus is like Him now I do believe that He too cannot die. He was a Spirit Being like the Angels are, and He emptied Himself of being a Spirit and became a man, to die for us. I believe that the reward for that is that He is Deity now, and will never die again…. Of course there is no clear Scriptures that tell us that. Only that He was a Spirit Being and had a glory with the Father John 17:5. John 1:1 only tells us that He was God, and since God is a title, it only means He is more then just an Angel, who are Spirit also. That is really a hard subject to say one way or the other. As far as I am concerned, it makes not to much of a difference. He is Deity now and that is what counts. One day we will know….Irene

[JustAskin]

Elizabeth,

Could the word 'Divine' be a better description for Jesus rather than 'Deity'.

One cannot 'become [a] God' but one can become 'Godlike'.

Those born into the first resurrection and taken into heaven to rule with Christ will also be 'Divine', 'brothers' with Christ!

If, they too, were 'Deity', how many 'Gods' would LU have to worship?

144,000 plus two!!

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,08:30)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2010,16:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,06:35) Jesus IS the outstretched arm.  Isaiah sees this and writes about it and is confirmed in John. Hi Kathi, I should have rephrased it.  Where is “the outstretched arm” worshipped as God Almighty? Mike, The outstretched arm isn't ever worshiped apart from God Almighty in the OT. God Almighty is worshiped as the God with the outstretched arm and seen as ONE.  The Jews understood that as one being but in the NT, it is revealed that the outstretched arm is actually the Son of God which makes God, two beings.  One greater than the other.

Hi LU,
Are you not sick of rationalising your dogma yet?
Jesus taught about his Father God not a binity.
Perhaps you know more?

[Lightenup]

Quote (JustAskin @ Mar. 27 2010,18:56)

Elizabeth, Could the word 'Divine' be a better description for Jesus rather than 'Deity'. One cannot 'become [a] God' but one can become 'Godlike'. Those born into the first resurrection and taken into heaven to rule with Christ will also be 'Divine', 'brothers' with Christ! If, they too, were 'Deity', how many 'Gods' would LU have to worship? 144,000 plus two!!

JA,
There is only ONE begotten Son, and He is called the mighty God.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2010,19:06)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,08:30) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 27 2010,16:21) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,06:35) Jesus IS the outstretched arm.  Isaiah sees this and writes about it and is confirmed in John. Hi Kathi, I should have rephrased it.  Where is “the outstretched arm” worshipped as God Almighty? Mike, The outstretched arm isn't ever worshiped apart from God Almighty in the OT. God Almighty is worshiped as the God with the outstretched arm and seen as ONE.  The Jews understood that as one being but in the NT, it is revealed that the outstretched arm is actually the Son of God which makes God, two beings.  One greater than the other. Hi LU, Are you not sick of rationalising your dogma yet? Jesus taught about his Father God not a binity. Perhaps you know more?

Scriptures Nick, scriptures.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
There are no scriptures that say Jesus was a combined God with his God and then God's arm divided from God and came
Neither are there two Gods.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2010,23:09)

Hi LU, There are no scriptures that say Jesus was a combined God with his God and then God's arm divided from God and came Neither are there two Gods.

Nick,
OR you haven't been given that revelation yet. Do you think that God is with Himself in John 1:1?

In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.

[terraricca]

LU

jewish phylosophy, through out history ,they never fallow allways at to go there way,look history for what result they have recieved from their God ,you just like to go the same way,

this is not the true way of God

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,15:32)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2010,23:09) Hi LU, There are no scriptures that say Jesus was a combined God with his God and then God's arm divided from God and came Neither are there two Gods. Nick, OR you haven't been given that revelation yet.  Do you think that God is with Himself in John 1:1? In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.

Hi LU,
The Spirit of God is what transformed Jesus into a man of power and spiritual understanding.

He said true worshipers worship the Father and he is not the Father is he?

Working instead from your own theories is sad to see.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2010,00:13)

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,15:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2010,23:09) Hi LU, There are no scriptures that say Jesus was a combined God with his God and then God's arm divided from God and came Neither are there two Gods. Nick, OR you haven't been given that revelation yet.  Do you think that God is with Himself in John 1:1? In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Hi LU, The Spirit of God is what transformed Jesus into a man of power and spiritual understanding. He said true worshipers worship the Father and he is not the Father is he? Working instead from your own theories is sad to see.

Nick,
Our own theories is all anyone has. You have your own theory too. You think that Jesus was just a normal man like the rest of us but if that were so, his death would not pay for all mankind. The scriptures say that a righteous man can not die in the place of the unrighteous man. He was more than a man. So you can wallow in your own theories. I am just to submit mine and hopefully the Lord will use them as He pleases. It is not my job to convince you.

All of us, like sheep, have gone our own way, but the Lord has caused the iniquities of us all to fall on Him. And we thank Him for bearing each of our lack.

I'm sure that if I was following another man's theories you would have trouble with that too.

[Lightenup]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 27 2010,23:34)

LU jewish phylosophy, through out history ,they never fallow allways at to go there way,look history for what result they have recieved from their God ,you just like to go the same way, this is not the true way of God

terraricca,

We are to encourage one another as we see the day drawing near dear terraricca. Let go of those discouraging words as if you are the all knowing judge. It is not your job and you are not all knowing You just pray for one another, if you care, for the Holy Spirit to convict. The Holy Spirit is not you…isn't that a relief? It is for me.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,16:40)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 28 2010,00:13) Quote (Lightenup @ Mar. 28 2010,15:32) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2010,23:09) Hi LU, There are no scriptures that say Jesus was a combined God with his God and then God's arm divided from God and came Neither are there two Gods. Nick, OR you haven't been given that revelation yet.  Do you think that God is with Himself in John 1:1? In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. Hi LU, The Spirit of God is what transformed Jesus into a man of power and spiritual understanding. He said true worshipers worship the Father and he is not the Father is he? Working instead from your own theories is sad to see. Nick, Our own theories is all anyone has.  You have your own theory too.  You think that Jesus was just a normal man like the rest of us but if that were so, his death would not pay for all mankind.  The scriptures say that a righteous man can not die in the place of the unrighteous man.  He was more than a man.  So you can wallow in your own theories.  I am just to submit mine and hopefully the Lord will use them as He pleases.  It is not my job to convince you. All of us, like sheep, have gone our own way, but the Lord has caused the iniquities of us all to fall on Him.   And we thank Him for bearing each of our lack. I'm sure that if I was following another man's theories you would have trouble with that too.

Hi LU,
Why did Jesus have to be MORE THAN A MAN to save us?
Any scriptures?

[JustAskin]

LU,
Just curious: where, in Scriptures, does it say that 'Righteous man cannot die for unRighteous man'?

Again, with curiosity: Are there others who believe your 'Binity'?

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