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That's right Kathi. God created the firstborn of all creation in His own image. And that is what is meant when God says He will create mankind in OUR image. He speaks to His Son about the image they both share, and how He will share that image also with mankind.
Manoah's words were, “We have seen GOD and now will die”, or something to that effect. And he said these words knowing full well that who he had seen was an ANGEL OF Jehovah.
Mike,
I am concerned and have been for a long time to see you twist things around. I have shown you even today how you write two opposing statements, and now you make it sound like I agree that God created the firstborn when I distinctly wrote:Quote And, no God did not create Jesus in His own image…the Son did not become the image of God but IS the image of the invisible God. I do agree that when God says 'let us create man in our image,' the two are speaking amongst themselves. The image that man is created in seems to be one of having dominion over things like the Father and Son have dominion.
The one that Manoah saw and the messenger that the Son is are most likely the same person and that person is a mighty God, creator of heaven and earth with the Father. He is not a creation.
Kathi
Manoah realized he was seeing an ANGEL of Jehovah, right?
So then the Son truly IS an angel of Jehovah? And that means Jesus is the “angel kind” of spirit, and not the “God kind”? Okay. I can live with that for now.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2011,13:36) Mike,
I am concerned and have been for a long time to see you twist things around. I have shown you even today how you write two opposing statements, and now you make it sound like I agree that God created the firstborn when I distinctly wrote:Quote And, no God did not create Jesus in His own image…the Son did not become the image of God but IS the image of the invisible God.
Kathi,It is of very little value to me what you THINK anymore. What you did was quote Col 1:15, which clearly says that Jesus was the firstborn of all of the created things. And I was acknowledging that the scripture you quoted was correct.
I will go adjust my earlier statement in the other thread right now. I did make a mistake on that post, and I will correct it so as to nip this new, “Mike twists my words” claim in the bud.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2011,05:43) Keith,
Do you find that many here that tear down the compound unity of God write as if this compound unity is made up of only one person. It is like they can't hear 'three persons in one' or 'two persons' in one unity. Don't they see that one person is speaking either to the other person or about the whole unity, depending on context. Maybe their heart is filled with anger or jealousy or hardness even bitterness. Those things will act as a veil over them to prevent them from receiving the truth from what I can tell here. They are making God into the image of their experience or understanding and not according to the Spirit of God…they are carving an image and worship this image god that they imagine to their own destruction. Watch them and see that some of them have an image that changes from experience to experience or week to week. You can especially notice them who put up very angry sounding posts and then those who agree with those who put them up. Bitterness leaks from their words. Do they think no one notices?Blessings,
Kathi
That is really good coming from you the one who likes to destroy. Do you ever be silent? Do you ever reflect on what you do? Do you like to mislead? The power of God is a great and mysterious thing. Though you think you can destroy God can pull up. So dont think you have got away with this long. You might be quite surprised in the end. You do not know what you do, but God does. I pray Gods power may break some ties here. And healing may come to those who need it.Kathi! I was just reading what you said to Keith….. When I pointed out that you believed in a half a trinity, you didn't like it, yet it is not right in your eyes to say the trinity is a wrong doctrine to follow. It is and has always been a wrong doctrine to follow…. it is a man made doctrine and not of God….
The Holy Spirit is not a person, but the Spirit of God…. You have surprised me how far you have fallen from grace….. maybe we need to pray for you so you can see straight again….If you don't like to debate what scriptures say, then just leave…. But stop condemning those who want to follow the truth….
You ignore the Scripture who Jehovah's name is….for others here they are againPsa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth.
His name ALONE
Psa 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name Jehovah, and rejoice before him.
His name, and not their names..
Wake up Kathi!!!!! Peace and Love Irene
Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 15 2011,07:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2011,05:43) Keith,
Do you find that many here that tear down the compound unity of God write as if this compound unity is made up of only one person. It is like they can't hear 'three persons in one' or 'two persons' in one unity. Don't they see that one person is speaking either to the other person or about the whole unity, depending on context. Maybe their heart is filled with anger or jealousy or hardness even bitterness. Those things will act as a veil over them to prevent them from receiving the truth from what I can tell here. They are making God into the image of their experience or understanding and not according to the Spirit of God…they are carving an image and worship this image god that they imagine to their own destruction. Watch them and see that some of them have an image that changes from experience to experience or week to week. You can especially notice them who put up very angry sounding posts and then those who agree with those who put them up. Bitterness leaks from their words. Do they think no one notices?Blessings,
Kathi
That is really good coming from you the one who likes to destroy. Do you ever be silent? Do you ever reflect on what you do? Do you like to mislead? The power of God is a great and mysterious thing. Though you think you can destroy God can pull up. So dont think you have got away with this long. You might be quite surprised in the end. You do not know what you do, but God does. I pray Gods power may break some ties here. And healing may come to those who need it.
Kar,You know Kar, I tend to think Kathi thinks the posters of this forum are quite ignorant, she must think no one knew who her post was really directed at.
It does however, bring some things to light, that she must be teenager, for she still seems to be playing games. I know this must shock and dismay some, however, it does clear the air.
Now, since this is clear, perhaps you and Irene being women can speak to her with more understanding, for it is well known speaking to teenagers can be quite fustrating.
However, tis not the case with me, if she wants to play the role of a woman, then I shall treat her no less.
However, it does help me in understanding her jealous, angry and bitterness statements. Childs play.
Much love to you Kar.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 14 2011,15:22) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2011,13:36) Mike,
I am concerned and have been for a long time to see you twist things around. I have shown you even today how you write two opposing statements, and now you make it sound like I agree that God created the firstborn when I distinctly wrote:Quote And, no God did not create Jesus in His own image…the Son did not become the image of God but IS the image of the invisible God.
Kathi,It is of very little value to me what you THINK anymore. What you did was quote Col 1:15, which clearly says that Jesus was the firstborn of all of the created things. And I was acknowledging that the scripture you quoted was correct.
I will go adjust my earlier statement in the other thread right now. I did make a mistake on that post, and I will correct it so as to nip this new, “Mike twists my words” claim in the bud.
Mike,
Thank you for adjusting your statement…you almost got it right.Also, you think that firstborn = first created.
That is a major flaw in your foundation and others here! You have built a house on sand my friend. Jesus is our only Lord and master. He is Lord over all and He is the Lord of lords. He is not a creation but, with the Father…the creator. He is not an angel but angels worship Him and minister to Him and are considered His angels.
You say that you put little value in what I think yet you keep asking me questions, hmmm.
Kathi
Irene,
Compound unities go by one name and within compound unities there is often found one that is head over another. That in no way takes away from the fact of the compound unity. You deny the unity of the Father and the Son. There are so many verses in the NT that link the two names. Maybe I will make a scripture database with those verses so that you can see them as the unity they are. I am just trying to help you, Irene. I do expect the adversary to try to get people to stop me and that is no surprise to me. Put on the armour Irene and seek discernment. I will keep my eyes on the Lord…our only Lord and master who is Jesus Christ. He will never fail me…I trust in Him.Wake up Irene.
Kathi
Quote (Pastry @ Aug. 14 2011,15:59) Psa 83:18 That [men] may know that thou, whose name alone [is] JEHOVAH, [art] the most high over all the earth. His name ALONE
So Jehovah ALONE is the “Most High” huh?Luke 1:32
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.Mark 5:7
He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won’t torture me!”And these scriptures seem to teach that Jesus is not PART of the “Unity of Jehovah – the Most High”, but instead the SON of “Jehovah – the Most High”.
Hmmmmmmm……………………interesting, eh Kathi?
Mike,
Think, why would Jehovah be the most high over all the earth? He is both the Father and the Son, the God of gods and the Lord of lords. It was the Father part of Jehovah that was the Father of the Son of God and the one who sent the Son part of Jehovah to be the Messiah. The two persons within the one unity have different roles. The unity does this, the unity does that…through different persons within the unity. The church does this, the church does that…through different members, the church gets different things done. It is not hard.Kathi
Quote (princess @ Aug. 15 2011,11:59) Quote (shimmer @ Aug. 15 2011,07:33) Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 15 2011,05:43) Keith,
Do you find that many here that tear down the compound unity of God write as if this compound unity is made up of only one person. It is like they can't hear 'three persons in one' or 'two persons' in one unity. Don't they see that one person is speaking either to the other person or about the whole unity, depending on context. Maybe their heart is filled with anger or jealousy or hardness even bitterness. Those things will act as a veil over them to prevent them from receiving the truth from what I can tell here. They are making God into the image of their experience or understanding and not according to the Spirit of God…they are carving an image and worship this image god that they imagine to their own destruction. Watch them and see that some of them have an image that changes from experience to experience or week to week. You can especially notice them who put up very angry sounding posts and then those who agree with those who put them up. Bitterness leaks from their words. Do they think no one notices?Blessings,
Kathi
That is really good coming from you the one who likes to destroy. Do you ever be silent? Do you ever reflect on what you do? Do you like to mislead? The power of God is a great and mysterious thing. Though you think you can destroy God can pull up. So dont think you have got away with this long. You might be quite surprised in the end. You do not know what you do, but God does. I pray Gods power may break some ties here. And healing may come to those who need it.
Kar,You know Kar, I tend to think Kathi thinks the posters of this forum are quite ignorant, she must think no one knew who her post was really directed at.
It does however, bring some things to light, that she must be teenager, for she still seems to be playing games. I know this must shock and dismay some, however, it does clear the air.
Now, since this is clear, perhaps you and Irene being women can speak to her with more understanding, for it is well known speaking to teenagers can be quite fustrating.
However, tis not the case with me, if she wants to play the role of a woman, then I shall treat her no less.
However, it does help me in understanding her jealous, angry and bitterness statements. Childs play.
Much love to you Kar.
Princess, I saw what she meant with what she wrote, where she had taken the words from. I prayed for the power from above to give me what to say, I have only ever done this twice on this forum, used such words as that in prayer, only for good reason.After, as I walked outside with my son and down the road it started to snow. I have never seen snow falling in my life. Is quite beautiful, not something ever happened since I have lived here. then a white dog, ran beside us. Why am I telling you this?
Bless you princess, dont worry about this lot. And Mike, you can give me warnings I dont care, tile away.
Quote (princess @ Aug. 14 2011,17:59) You know Kar, I tend to think Kathi thinks the posters of this forum are quite ignorant, she must think no one knew who her post was really directed at.
Hi Princess,I would say Kathi's recent comments were directed at you, for making the fine post you made. And at me, for commending you about your fine post.
If you have something more to add about Kathi's flawed “compound unity God” theory, or the comically flawed Trinity Doctrine in general, then let's hear it. Irene, Pierre, t8, and I can use all the help we can get.
Just remember that we are all here to teach, learn, share, discuss, iron out, and even have some verbal wars about scriptures and scriptural doctrines.
We aren't here to launch verbal personal assaults that have nothing at all to do with the scriptural issues being discussed.
Keep it above the belt, people. And let's have a clean, scriptural fight!
Moderator
Mike, this is not a personal vandetta as you said. This is about others spiritual wellbeing. this is a war I have been in since I first saw the true side of the said person, in private, as well as on the forum, and the angry and jealous spirit behind it. If you have no discernment on the matter then please leave it to those who do. She seems to be saying that it is an attack against truth. Thats a lie and she knows it.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2011,18:18)
Also, you think that firstborn = first created.
Has there EVER been a “firstborn” who wasn't a creation, Kathi? I think it's pretty obvious that “firstborn of every dinosaur” refers to the first dinosaur ever to exist, don't you?And I also think that if you're not a person who is willing to post nonsensical things to futher your own flawed doctrine, it follows that the “firstborn of every creature” refers to the first creature ever brought forth into existence.
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2011,18:18)
Jesus is our only Lord and master. He is Lord over all and He is the Lord of lords.
Acts 2:36
“Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.”Kathi, WHO exactly MADE Jesus our Lord? WHO exalted him on high, gave him the name above all others, and apointed him as Lord of lords?
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2011,18:18)
You say that you put little value in what I think yet you keep asking me questions, hmmm.
Like this last one I just asked? Do you seriously think I've asked these questions because I want you to TEACH me the answers? I ask these questions, to which I already know the scriptural answers, because I hope that by reading them you will eventually come back to your senses.peace,
mikeShimmer and Princess,
Those who stand for truth and point out errors (such as myself and others)
often become the target of those filled with pride and deceit; NO NAMES!
I have been targeted on this board MANY TIMES NOW, TO NO AFFECT!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Lightenup @ Aug. 14 2011,18:56) Mike,
Think, why would Jehovah be the most high over all the earth? He is both the Father and the Son, the God of gods and the Lord of lords. It was the Father part of Jehovah that was the Father of the Son of God and the one who sent the Son part of Jehovah to be the Messiah. The two persons within the one unity have different roles. The unity does this, the unity does that…through different persons within the unity. The church does this, the church does that…through different members, the church gets different things done. It is not hard.Kathi
Is that your answer to those scriptures, Kathi? How weak!
Is Jesus the Son OF Jehovah, the Most High God, like those scriptures clearly say…………..or not?
Btw, your “church” analogy is not an apples to apples comparison, because the “church” is not a living BEING like God is. (Don't be fooled by metaphorical language that might call the Church a “she”. This group of many individual BEINGS does not really have a gender, Kathi………..nor is it a living BEING itself. This is simply poetic language.)
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 14 2011,19:32) Shimmer and Princess, Those who stand for truth and point out errors (such as myself and others)
often become the target of those filled with pride and deceit; NO NAMES!
I have been targeted on this board MANY TIMES NOW, TO NO AFFECT!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J
What “truth” Ed?That Kathi's a big meanie-head? That she's ugly? That she doesn't dress well?
What is this – the 8th grade?
Last warning to All:
The next assualt someone makes of a PERSONAL nature – one that has nothing to do with the scriptural discussion we're having – is going to garner them a tile.
If you guys want to go after anyone here for the unscriptural things they post, then more power to you. But this is a scriptural discussion forum – not a personal, “I don't like him/her” slam-fest.
Keep the discussion on topic please.
Moderator
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 15 2011,13:52) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 14 2011,19:32) Shimmer and Princess, Those who stand for truth and point out errors (such as myself and others)
often become the target of those filled with pride and deceit; NO NAMES!
I have been targeted on this board MANY TIMES NOW, TO NO AFFECT!Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J
What “truth” Ed?That Kathi's a big meanie-head? That she's ugly? That she doesn't dress well?
What is this – the 8th grade?
Last warning to All:
The next assualt someone makes of a PERSONAL nature – one that has nothing to do with the scriptural discussion we're having – is going to garner them a tile.
If you guys want to go after anyone here for the unscriptural things they post, then more power to you. But this is a scriptural discussion forum – not a personal, “I don't like him/her” slam-fest.
Keep the discussion on topic please.
Moderator
Mike,Cant you see what she does and who she does it to? Read the words she said carefully and see if she is repeating something she read in another place on the forum, such as skeptics place and also things she has said about me in the past. What kind of a person does things like that? She doesnt care. Its just all about HER.
Tile away Mike.
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