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Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,09:39) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,17:31) And also this is what is meant by Philippians 2 which states that Jesus was in the “form of God”. To be in the form of God does not make that person God. Marty
MartyTo be in the form of God does not mean that he isn't God.
The Father is in the form of God isn't he.
God has a form my friend!
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice “nor seen his form“, John 5:37
Being in the form of God is proof of his deity!
That term is not used of any other!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:The word “form” in each of these scriptures is not the same word. No one has seen God's form in that God is invisible, but we have seen his character manifest through the life that Jesus lived. Jesus has declared him the works of obedience that he did in obedience to Him, and so, he said “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
And so, as I have stated before he is God in that he is “the express image of God's person”. But he is not “God Almighty”. There is only “One God” that we are to worship as God.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,18:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,09:39) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,17:31) And also this is what is meant by Philippians 2 which states that Jesus was in the “form of God”. To be in the form of God does not make that person God. Marty
MartyTo be in the form of God does not mean that he isn't God.
The Father is in the form of God isn't he.
God has a form my friend!
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice “nor seen his form“, John 5:37
Being in the form of God is proof of his deity!
That term is not used of any other!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:The word “form” in each of these scriptures is not the same word. No one has seen God's form in that God is invisible, but we have seen his character manifest through the life that Jesus lived. Jesus has declared him the works of obedience that he did in obedience to Him, and so, he said “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
And so, as I have stated before he is God in that he is “the express image of God's person”. But he is not “God Almighty”. There is only “One God” that we are to worship as God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThey are not the same word but they have the same meaning!
Your point is a moot point when you say that because Jesus was in the “Form of God” that he is not God.
Also you say he is not God, but as you know the scriptures say he is.
Blessings WJ
WJ,
Why not respond. I will. I am writing my posts from my mobilephone. It's not easy to read, write and research at the same time like this.
In any case, why are you so desparate for a response? Do you think, believe, that I fear answering your questions? How long have you challenged me, have I run away even once?
Kathi and Worship God. What's your point?
Read Philippians 3:3: 'For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh'
What did I say to Kathi?
Singing and dancing is not worship because that is of the flesh. Worship God in Spirit and Truth… What is 'in the Spirit'?… What is 'in Truth?What are you trying to get at? Can you find anything that you can call false or misrepresentative? No, then move on.
I have warned you about frivolous challenges, playing games, toying around.
You said before that what I was saying was nothing compared to challenges that you have faced over the years. Well, from the, frankly 'lame, unscriptural and deliberatley ignorant/naive', responses that you and TT, give I can only believe that your challengers were either weak, unsupported by the Holy Spirit or simply moved on after reading where the scriptures says not to walk with disbelievers nor greet them.
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 22 2010,18:30) WJ, Why not respond. I will. I am writing my posts from my mobilephone. It's not easy to read, write and research at the same time like this.
In any case, why are you so desparate for a response? Do you think, believe, that I fear answering your questions? How long have you challenged me, have I run away even once?
Kathi and Worship God. What's your point?
Read Philippians 3:3: 'For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh'
What did I say to Kathi?
Singing and dancing is not worship because that is of the flesh. Worship God in Spirit and Truth… What is 'in the Spirit'?… What is 'in Truth?What are you trying to get at? Can you find anything that you can call false or misrepresentative? No, then move on.
I have warned you about frivolous challenges, playing games, toying around.
You said before that what I was saying was nothing compared to challenges that you have faced over the years. Well, from the, frankly 'lame, unscriptural and deliberatley ignorant/naive', responses that you and TT, give I can only believe that your challengers were either weak, unsupported by the Holy Spirit or simply moved on after reading where the scriptures says not to walk with disbelievers nor greet them.
JALook again.
You said bring it on. I showed you a post about the word “God” in response to you.
Now you once again do not answer the post, but only accuse me.
WJ
It is 11:30pm in the UK. Do you want me to write without thenHoly Spirit so you can accuse me?
Wait … Remember your own!
I will respond tomorrow.
Goodnight for tonightJA said:
Quote I don't know how you come about to claim that I am saying that Jesus is God.
JA,You are correct that you did not say the exact words that Jesus is “God representatively.” But those words should be imputed to you because what you said amounts to the same thing. You said that He is “God's representative” which means that he is “God representatively.” For as God's representative Jesus is to be obeyed as God. So don't split hairs. You appear insincere when you split hairs the way you do. The expression “God's representative” means “God representatively.”
JA:
Quote When I asked the question: 'As what did Jesus die, God or Man', you could barely respond with anything resembling sense, even claiming that actually, Jesus didn't die but went off preaching to the dead in hades from Noah's days, and that Jonah in the great fish was a direct analogy of Jesus in the grave.
My answer was clear. You just did not accept it. I said more than once that Christ cannot be divided.JA:
Quote How many times do I write:
Did Jonah die in the great fish?, no.
Did Jesus die on the cross?, yes.
You were talking about Christ's physical death. I was talking about His spirit after His body died.40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth Matthew 12:40.
Jonah was in the belly of the fish ALIVE. Jonah's spirit and body were in the belly of the fish ALIVE. The belly of the fish was likened to sheol. After Jesus gave up the His spirit He went ALIVE into the heart of the earth (sheol) for three days.
His body went into the tomb.
JA:
Quote How can anyone listen to anything you say when something as simple and 'raw' as:
Jesus is God's representative (You changed my word to 'representatively')
to mean Jesus IS God?
That is amazing. A representative is a representative.
There you go again with your double talk. You say that “a representative is a representative” without defining what it means.The repetition of a word is not a definition. To say “a representative is a representative” is a meaningless statement. But to say “a representative acts in the place of another” is a definition.
The Father has delivered ALL things into His Son's hands. He has ALL authority in heaven and in earth. This means that He is God “representatively” because He acts in His Father's place.
Your whole post is incoherent!
thinker
Hi TT,
So if Jesus represents God why do you claim he is that God and even a part of another trinity god?
God does not represent HimselfQuote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,10:30) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,18:26) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Feb. 23 2010,09:39) Quote (942767 @ Feb. 22 2010,17:31) And also this is what is meant by Philippians 2 which states that Jesus was in the “form of God”. To be in the form of God does not make that person God. Marty
MartyTo be in the form of God does not mean that he isn't God.
The Father is in the form of God isn't he.
God has a form my friend!
And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice “nor seen his form“, John 5:37
Being in the form of God is proof of his deity!
That term is not used of any other!
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:The word “form” in each of these scriptures is not the same word. No one has seen God's form in that God is invisible, but we have seen his character manifest through the life that Jesus lived. Jesus has declared him the works of obedience that he did in obedience to Him, and so, he said “He who has seen me has seen the Father”.
And so, as I have stated before he is God in that he is “the express image of God's person”. But he is not “God Almighty”. There is only “One God” that we are to worship as God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyThey are not the same word but they have the same meaning!
Your point is a moot point when you say that because Jesus was in the “Form of God” that he is not God.
Also you say he is not God, but as you know the scriptures say he is.
Blessings WJ
Hi WJ:No, the scriptures do not say that he is God. The scriptures state plainly that he is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. That is who our Father and God revealed to us through the Apostle Peter in Matthew 16.
It is true that God has called the Son God “God” and that Thomas said “My Lord and my God” when he believed that it was Jesus had risen from the dead.
But God did not tell us that he is God, but that he is the “express image of his person”. God made man in His own image. And Jesus is the last Adam. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a life giving spirit. God is love.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (thethinker @ Feb. 23 2010,07:21) WJ, What I enjoy about debating with anti-trinitarians is that is so easy to show up there insincerity.
I love it man!thinker
Hi TT,Your words prove which one of these two you are…
Philip.1:15: Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife;
and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely…Ed J
Hi Kathi,
Q and A time
Quote How do you show that love to Jesus nowadays if you do not have a relationship with Him? Like this: Dear Heavenly Father Jehovah, ….and thank you for the sacrifice of your only son, whom I love…..I pray this to you through you son, Jesus Christ, without whom I would be nothing. Amen And other variations, of course.
Quote Do you think that you know Him or do you think that you just know of Him sorta like King David? Do you know His voice? If so, how would you know His voice if you do not have a relationship with Him? What I know of both of them comes from Scripture. Sorry, I have received no audible words from God or anyone else.
Quote Are you one of his “sheep?” I'm striving to be accepted as one.
Quote Are you “in His hand” so to speak?
Do you think that the Son of God was created or begotten?
Can you tell me when that happened?I hope I am in his hands. My future sure is.
Beget simply means “to cause to exist”. I see no difference.
He was the “firstborn of all creation”, but no, I don't know when. Do you?Quote John 14:23
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
NASUWhat does this passage in John 14:23 mean to you.
That both the Father and Son will make their dwelling in New Jerusalem with the chosen ones.
Quote You say that I should not talk to Jesus. Why is that? Kathi, I apologize for that. I woke up the next morning with that comment I made to you gnawing on my brain. I feel I was led to some Scriptures that might help me to understand, but the understanding hasn't yet come. You can look up “in my name” in the NIV concordance to see what I mean. Most times, Jesus says to ask the Father for anything in my name… But on two different occasions, he says to ask him for anything in his name… I'm not sure what to conclude. Is it alright to talk to Jesus? I just don't know. But I am sure that prayer is only for the Father. Jesus even tells us exactly how to do it.
Quote Do you still believe that by only looking to the Father fills your God-void? A “God-void” by definition can only be filled by God. And there is only one God.
peace and love
mikeHi Kathi,
I forgot to comment on one of your thoughts:
Quote Very good, you are right, it does say that the Pharisees were with Jesus but what you missed is that only a few verses later the Pharisees are about to stone Jesus for making Himself out to be God. So, they are having a fierce reaction to the accumulation of events that happened in a short period of time. This is what I posted to WJ in Arian Dissenters:
Quote WJ said:
The Hebrews never referred to the Father as their “OWN” Father. They considered that blasphemy and thought Jesus was making himself equal to God!I said:
Not according to John 8:41.
John 8:41 says,
“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”I have heard the “making himself equal to God” argument before, but it doesn't hold up. For starters, the first time the Jews were going to stone Jesus is after a heated debate ending in the famous “I am” comment, which maybe you and I can discuss sometime. (Hint: The “I am” thing doesn't even work for Trinitarians, because if the Son was saying he was the Father, then there are only two in your Godhead.)
But look at the second time they went to stone him.
Quote
30 I and the Father are one.”31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
It's the “I and the Father are one” comment that sets the Jews off. It can't be because he said he was God's son, the Jews had already said that about themselves. And look at Jesus' answer to them:
Quote
34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'[e]? 35If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?He corrects the mistaken Jews by saying in effect, “Even though God himself has called men of God “gods”, I didn't say I was God, or even “a god”, only God's son.” If Jesus had somehow tried to imply he was God, he wouldn't have asked, “Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy?”, because he would have indeed been guilty of it.
peace and love
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Feb. 22 2010,22:34) LU, Why are you resisting the Holy Spirit? Why are you drawing wrongful conclusions to from Scripture to try and justify what you do.
To All,A person cannot multiply!
Luke 8:11…“The seed” is “the word“ of God.
Acts:12:24: The Word of God grew and MULTIPLIED.
Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but
the word(TheSeed “IS” HolySpirit) of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son(Jesus Christ), who is consecrated for evermore.HolySpirit
Eph.4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.Only The Truth will do!
Ed JQuote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 23 2010,20:17) Hi Kathi, Q and A time
Quote How do you show that love to Jesus nowadays if you do not have a relationship with Him? Like this: Dear Heavenly Father Jehovah, ….and thank you for the sacrifice of your only son, whom I love…..I pray this to you through you son, Jesus Christ, without whom I would be nothing. Amen And other variations, of course.
Quote Do you think that you know Him or do you think that you just know of Him sorta like King David? Do you know His voice? If so, how would you know His voice if you do not have a relationship with Him? What I know of both of them comes from Scripture. Sorry, I have received no audible words from God or anyone else.
Quote Are you one of his “sheep?” I'm striving to be accepted as one.
Quote Are you “in His hand” so to speak?
Do you think that the Son of God was created or begotten?
Can you tell me when that happened?I hope I am in his hands. My future sure is.
Beget simply means “to cause to exist”. I see no difference.
He was the “firstborn of all creation”, but no, I don't know when. Do you?Quote John 14:23
23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
NASUWhat does this passage in John 14:23 mean to you.
That both the Father and Son will make their dwelling in New Jerusalem with the chosen ones.
Quote You say that I should not talk to Jesus. Why is that? Kathi, I apologize for that. I woke up the next morning with that comment I made to you gnawing on my brain. I feel I was led to some Scriptures that might help me to understand, but the understanding hasn't yet come. You can look up “in my name” in the NIV concordance to see what I mean. Most times, Jesus says to ask the Father for anything in my name… But on two different occasions, he says to ask him for anything in his name… I'm not sure what to conclude. Is it alright to talk to Jesus? I just don't know. But I am sure that prayer is only for the Father. Jesus even tells us exactly how to do it.
Quote Do you still believe that by only looking to the Father fills your God-void? A “God-void” by definition can only be filled by God. And there is only one God.
peace and love
mike
Hi Mike,Thank you again for your sincerity in your answers. It sounds to me that you love the Father and that you love the Son. Did you realize that it was the Son that revealed the Father to you. I believe that you have heard the Son and you are His sheep but maybe you don't even realize it.
Hearing the Father and the Son is not as complicated as people think. You can ask either of them a question and ask them to tell you the answer in a way that you know that it isn't your thoughts that you are thinking…and then be quiet and wait. Usually they speak to us in a quiet thought that comes into our mind through their spirit that is within you. Rarely do people get audible voices from the Father or the Son. I did once, but that is all.
We can ask Jesus to lead us into a relationship with Him and believe that He will do that. Then look for that relationship to develop. Jesus loves you and you do not have to strive to be His sheep. You just need to have faith in Him, believe in Him and follow Him. He wants to give you rest.
John 7:37-38
37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone is thirsty, let him come to Me and drink.
38 “He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'”
NASUMatt 11:28-30
28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.
30 “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
NASUIn the above passage, do you see that Jesus is inviting you into relationship with Him? He longs to have a relationship with you and you don't have to wait till after you are dead. Jesus is alive and is in you…just start talking to Him. Then listen to your thoughts. You will know that those thoughts are from Him if they encourage you, not condem you or criticize you. They will be loving towards you. The enemy can also put thoughts into your head. This is where discernment of the spirits comes in. The enemy will be condeming and critical and take your energy. Don't receive the thoughts from the enemy. Jesus gives life with His words ((thoughts) to you.
Regarding the terms begotten and created, I see a big difference. Created, as I understand it is bringing something into existence with a completely different nature from the source. Begotten/born would mean something coming into existence with the same nature as the source.
The things created:
Angels, plants, the sun, the moon, the stars, animals, man.Things begotten:
animals from animals, man from man, and God from God, imo.So, you see, I see a big difference between these two statements:
first “created” of all creation…and
firstborn of all creation.You asked when I thought that the Son of God began. I think that it is possible that He was the Light on day one when God said, “Let there be light.” I explained it in a post several pages back as to why I say that.
Also, while you are talking to the Father and listening to the thoughts He puts in your mind, ask Him if it is ok to show worship to His Son. Then let me know what He tells you. Remember to ask Him to give you the answer in words that aren't from you. You might want to ask Him to tell you what He means by the term “only begotten son.”
James 1:5-8
5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
6 But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is li
ke the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.
7 For that man ought not to expect that he will receive anything from the Lord,
8 being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.
NASUBless you,
KathiMike,
Good answers to kathi – and honest, too.
Your prayer is correct in structure – and ultra right concerning variations – God doesn't admire mindless repetition.
Of course, in communal, or 'Corporate', praise, honor, glorying – and Worship, there will be repetition so that the community can praise and Worship uniformaly, but then that is why the 'Private and personal' element is so important – make those exaltations YOURS to HIM in private.Yes, it is ok to speak to Jesus. You can Praise him, you can honor him, you can glorify him and you can just talk to him like you are talking to a very sincere friend – just have a [one-way] conversation.
What you mustn't do is try to Worship Jesus – that is, try to make claims that he is 'above all including his father or equal to his Father and that pledge your everlasting allegiance to him, offer your life to him, etc (These latter are for His God, Our Father, his Father, Only!)
Never exclude the Father in your conversations – Give glory to Him through the Son:
e.g.
“Lord Jesus, I thank you for the knowledge of your Father – the Only God, Jehovah, that you brought to mankind.
I acknowledge the pain and suffering that you went through to bring about sanctification to mankind and that by doing so you have acquird your due reward and are even now our reigning Lord and King.
I am a sinful servant of your God and My God seeking the answers or even a hint to answers to some difficult questions and, if it is your Father's will, then my humbled spirit is open to accept His revelation through His holy Spirit. Amen”WJ,
Quote Ja Yes this is what you said before.
I gave you scriptures where Jesus is called God with capitol “G”.
Here is only a couple of them…
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, “The mighty **God**”, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and “the Word was **God**.” John 1:1
“But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O **God**”, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
Thank you for agreeing with most all of the Translators and Translations.
You are correct. Jesus is “God”.
Blessings WJ
Isaiah 9:6: Are you trying to say that when someone says someone will be called “The Mighty God” that it means that that person WILL BE GOD, the Only God. So Jesus, WILL BE God?
So Satan is a literal dragon and also a snake?: “The one called the Devil”, “that old serpent”. Every time we see a snake or a serpent the we are seeing Satan… wow, there must be a lot of individual SATANs. So then there must also be MORE THAN ONE GOD? hmmm… something not right there, is there? Satan WANTS us to MAKE Jesus a GOD – a MIGHTY GOD, “The MIGHTY GOD” so that we can sin for his sake – no thank you.
WJ, be careful how far you go with your joking around – it's leading you down a dangerous path – and you've seen what it has done to TT!I think you make a joke of trying to prove your point (Ha ha – look I'm laughing a [sad] laugh, too!)
“Everlasting Father” – What does that mean? You are confusing Jesus' Father with Father over mankind
“Prince of Peace” – what is that – are you saying that a Prince is a God. This needs no explanation considering the verses in scripture that state that Jesus will bring about the reconcilliation of God's Kindom bring 'PEACE' to all. Note, He is the “Prince” of Peace, Not the “King” or “God” of Peace.Quote “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and “the Word was **God**.” John 1:1″
WJ, have you just been going through teh Scriptures looking for anyhting that says “God” and has Jesus' name anywhere near it?You know you are in a deep debate with T8 about this issue and basically has come to a mexican stand off. T8 is greater than I, so what should I say. I have prayed for Holy Spirit help and so far there has been no revelation.
I do not, however, believe that there is anything proved by your quote for the following reasons:
1) “The Word was 'WITH God'” – He was “WITH God” in the beginning. How does this 'prove' that the Word IS God?
“The Pen was WITH the Paper” – Therefore the PEN [WAS/IS] the Paper?
2) “The Word was 'God'” Why WAS – does this mean that he isn't anymore? Could be if he 'EMPTIED' himself and became flesh
and blood Man.
3) a) What exactly does it mean to be “The Word of God”?
b) What exactly does it mean to be “WITH God”?
c) What exactly does it “WAS God” mean?a) God's 'word' spoken through His Holy Spirit is equivalent to an act. The Word [Jesus, so to be named] carried out that
which God spoke through the Holy Spirit. So [Jesus, so to be named] was literally “The Word” turned action through
God's Holy Spirit.
b) [Jesus, so to be named] was with God – well, he had to be if statement a) is/was to happen.
c) [Jesus, so to be named] was '[like a] God': all powerful, was an Irresistable force of action through the holy Spirit. He
wasn't “THE” God but his power was from and through “THE” God. Hence, God says: “I created teh World and all that is in
it” and Jesus can also say “I created the world and all that is in it” without ambiguity (Let him who has wisdom understand)Quote “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O **God**”, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. Heb 1:8
You know very well that “O GOD” does not allude in any way to “THE GOD”. Anyone can be called “Oh GOD” (In any capital case or none!). It simply means simialr to “powerful one”, “One with high authority”, “A king”. This is equialent to a 'loose title'.You are suggesting that God called his Son, “GOD” – a requote from the old Testament where David would not even have begun to suggest, imply, or allude to God almighty and ANOTHER GOD called the Son.
All in all not only has all this been a pointless exercise (For you) but it just makes me stronger because I wouldn't have prayed for God's Spiritual help over this matter.
The more you try to strike me down, the more powerful I become…
#”The more you try to strike me down, the more powerful I become… “# Star Wars: Paraphrased – Obi-wan Kinobi to Darth Vader.
Even the baseless arguments from WJ and TT present opportunities for stengthening my belief in my One God and my One Lord.
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 25 2010,02:25) #”The more you try to strike me down, the more powerful I become… “# Star Wars: Paraphrased – Obi-wan Kinobi to Darth Vader. Even the baseless arguments from WJ and TT present opportunities for stengthening my belief in my One God and my One Lord.
JA,I am still waiting for you to answer my post on page 83. Until you answer you have been “struck down” by your own self.
In that post on page 83 I answered your ridiculous suggestion that Christ can be God's “representative” without being “God representatively.”
A Sheriff's deputy is the Sheriff's representative and is also the Sheriff representatively. His authority is the authority of the Sheriff.
Your distinction between the terms “God's representative” and “God representatively” is goo goo ga ga.
thinker
TT,
Who has seen God?
Who has seen jesus?God Almighty says: “, “Noone [Noone of sinful mankind] can see God and live”
Jesus Christ says: “Noone has seen the father[God], except the Son”– All those in Jesus' days who walked with him has then seen God – who is Jesus according to you.
So who is lying – God, Jesus or Man?
TT, I would have thought that you would have studied these elementary things at the beginning of your great learning!
When the President's representative carries out and act on the part of the President do you not understand that that representative is only acting WITHIN the authority of the President.
If an issue arises that is NOT within the remit of that representative then that representative has to consult back to the President.
The president's representative can only act WITHIN the remit of the Presidential orders.
At no time does a Presidents representative say “I am the President because I exercise all the power and AUTHORITY of the President” – That would be a gross misrepresentatation of the role of the representative.
At no time does Jesus say “I am God, becasuse I exercise all the power and AUTHORITY of GOD” – that would be a gross misrepresentation of Jesus' role.
There can be:
– only ONE God – Who is the father, God Almighty.
– and ONE Lord – Who is Jesus Christ.Worship God ! – Amen.
JustAskin said:
Quote When the President's representative carries out and act on the part of the President do you not understand that that representative is only acting WITHIN the authority of the President. If an issue arises that is NOT within the remit of that representative then that representative has to consult back to the President.
JA,See my post today to ED J on the “God is over all; Christ is over all” thread. Joseph wore Pharoah's signet ring in Pharoah's place.
Now to answer your silly illustration of a “representative.” After Pharoah put the signet ring on the Joseph's hand he said to him, “all my people shall be ruled according to YOUR WORD” (Gen. 41:40).
Joseph did not have to go back to Pharoah and “consult” with him over issues. His “representation” of Pharoah was not at all like the representation of which you speak. Joseph wore the signet ring and everything was done according to Joesph's word.
Jesus is not at all a “representative” like you say. He is not required to “consult” with His Father. How ridiculous! Jesus is the representative of His Father like a Sheriff's deputy is a representative to the Sheriff. A Sheriff's deputy does not need to “consult” the Sheriff to arrest someone or to charge someone with a crime. A deputy does not need to “consult” with the Sheriff to pull over a motorist. The deputy has the same sovereignty on the streets that the sheriff has.
The Father gave Jesus FULL SOVEREIGNTY. Jesus may reveal the Father to whomsoever He wills and He does not need to “consult” the Father about it first.
“All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.”
You have no clue about biblical “representation” or “deputization.” They may entertain all your funny ideas in th UK (and I am not surprised). But we don't think like that where I come from.
Jesus wears the Father's crown as Joseph wore the Pharoah's signet ring.
thinker
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