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People, don't make things up, you won't be able to back them up.
Making unscriptural references without backup onlt allows 'the enemy' to call 'you' and 'all true Believers', Liars.
If you can't answer a question then just say so. There are others who may. Don't try to make things up just to try and be 'smart'.
Be Smart, but more importantly, do it with Holy Spirited Truth.
So, there are no scriptures against the worship of Jesus as the Son of God. Nothing in the whole Bible that says that the Father is against worship of His Son. No reproof is given for those who worship the Son of God in the scriptures and I will not receive this poor counsel.
I will continue to exalt the Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God who sits at the right hand of God the Father apart from whom (Jesus) I can do nothing. Jesus holds the power over the enemy and I will not be afraid. I will call on His name and believe that the voice of the Lord has already spoken to me about these matters. The Father adores His Son and I stand firm and join Him in that adoration. Praise, glory and honor be to the Lord Jesus for the glory of the Father.
The Father's word to me most recently:
Lyrics: Matthew Bridges, 1800-1894, and Godfrey Thring, 1823-1903
Crown Him with Many Crowns
Lyrics:
Crown him with many crowns,
the Lamb upon his throne,
Hark! how the heavenly anthem drowns
all music but its own.
Awake, my soul, and sing
of him who died for thee,
and hail him as thy matchless King
through all eternity.Crown him the Lord of life,
who triumphed o'er the grave,
and rose victorious in the strife
for those he came to save.
His glories now we sing,
who died, and rose on high,
who died, eternal life to bring,
and lives that death may die.Crown him the Lord of peace,
whose power a scepter sways
from pole to pole, that wars may cease,
and all be prayer and praise.
His reign shall know no end,
and round his pierced feet
fair flowers of paradise extend B their fragrance ever sweet.Crown him the Lord of love;
behold his hands and side,
those wounds, yet visible above,
in beauty glorified.
All hail, Redeemer, hail!
For thou hast died for me;
thy praise and glory shall not fail
throughout eternity.I crown you Lord Jesus, the begotten God, for the glory of God the Father. Your righteousness does not fail and your love never ceases, again, for the glory of God your Father. Thank you dear Jesus for all you have done for us.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 17 2010,13:54) So, there are no scriptures against the worship of Jesus as the Son of God. Nothing in the whole Bible that says that the Father is against worship of His Son. No reproof is given for those who worship the Son of God in the scriptures and I will not receive this poor counsel. Kathi, That's just not true…there are many Scriptures that say to worship ONLY Jehovah. Those are most definitely “against the worship of Jesus”.
Can you give me the Book and verse of all instances in the Bible where Jesus is worshipped, just for my reasearch?
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 11 2010,21:59) Nick,
From Paul, an apostle about Christ:
2:8 He humbled himself,
by becoming obedient to the point of death
– even death on a cross!
2:9 As a result God exalted him
and gave him the name
that is above every name,
2:10 so that at the name of Jesus
every knee will bow
– in heaven and on earth and under the earth –
2:11 and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord
to the glory of God the Father.
Bump for Mike. I know you didn't ask for this but while I go through these past quotes, if I find one you might be interested in, I will bump it for you.Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 11 2010,17:50) Nick,
We are not united with the Son as a fellow man, we are united IN the Son. Do you believe that before the Pentecost, the Son of God was ignorant? He would not accept worship as the Son of God before Pentecost or any time unless it were a glory to His Father…I am positive of that. I am also positive that He received worship from His disciples on more than one occasion before Pentecost and it was because they realized truth, not because they were ignorant of truth…they were Jews and knew the commandments, they worshiped the Son as the Son of God because they knew where He was from-from the Father. They did not worship Him as the Heavenly Father but as the Son of God.Here is a passage when the disciples became enlightened. At first they thought they saw a ghost but when they realized the truth…they worshiped the Son and the one who is the TRUTH did not dismiss the worship. One thing the Son is not is someone that is shy about correcting His disciples. In these following passages, the worshipers were not taught to worship, they were moved to worship.
Quote Matt 14:26-33
26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out in fear.
27 But immediately Jesus spoke to them, saying, “Take courage, it is I; do not be afraid.”
28 Peter said to Him, “Lord, if it is You, command me to come to You on the water.”
29 And He said, “Come!” And Peter got out of the boat, and walked on the water and came toward Jesus.
30 But seeing the wind, he became frightened, and beginning to sink, he cried out, “Lord, save me!”
31 Immediately Jesus stretched out His hand and took hold of him, and said to him, “You of little faith, why did you doubt?”
32 When they got into the boat, the wind stopped.
33 And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, “You are certainly God's Son!”
NASUQuote Matt 28:8-10
8 And they left the tomb quickly with fear and great joy and ran to report it to His disciples.
9 And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him.
10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid; go and take word to My brethren to leave for Galilee, and there they will see Me.”
NASUQuote Matt 28:17-20
17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some were doubtful.
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”
NASUQuote John 9:36-39
36 He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?”
37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.”
38 And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him.
39 And Jesus said, “For judgment I came into this world, so that those who do not see may see, and that those who see may become blind.”
NASUIt was the Pharisees that remained in their ignorance and did not worship the Son as the Son of God. Why would you follow the Pharisees and not the disciples?
After Pentecost, the apostles taught the headship of the Father and the Son and the need for both. It is the Spirit within us that leads us to worship in truth and we know that the Father is true and the Son is the truth both are needed for salvation.
Kathi
Bump for Mike. Happy research:)Hi LU,
You can worship as you wish as folks do everywhere but the one we serve spoke of true worshipers in jn4.
We should be among them.Kathi! I have thought about this some time ago. I worship God the Father through Jesus Christ who is our Mediator to do so. When Scriptures that you pointed out say in
John 9:38 what I think happened there is that He said :”Lord I believe and then “He worshipped Him. Could it be that He still was worshipping the Father through Christ? You know when I read that the Father is above all, I also believe that the Father deserves to only be worshipped. God the Father cannot look on Sin and since we have a sinful nature, we need Christ to pray to the Father. We are then made one with them, by the Holy Spirit that dwells in us. We have several Scriptures that tell us that the Father is greater then the Son. And IMO even Christ I don't think wants us to pray to Him. IMO that was just an misunderstanding of the translators. I could be wrong just like any of us can.
But I always pray to our Heavenly Father through Christ our Savior. I honor Him and know how much He loves His Father and that is what I am doing. I love both and respect both. But worship belongs only to the Father IMO. You know otherwise what is the difference. I also know that most Churches today always just Jesus, Jesus and Jesus, and forget our Heavenly Father…Most worship lyrics are written that way.
I have a question for you. In most of your posts you always add in the glory of the Father……Why?
You know also because of the trinity doctrine it does not matter to most Christians today. All is equal. Not to me and never will be…..
Peace and Love IreneThe word used in most and probably all cases where it says that someone is getting worshiped in the NT is proskuneo:
1. to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
2. among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence
3. in the NT by kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
a. used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
1. to the Jewish high priests
2. to God
3. to Christ
4. to heavenly beings
5. to demonsThe meaning of the word is actually showing respect and reference? You could go all the way and say that they were worshiping (as to God) or were just simply showing respect to Yeshua as Messiah, King and Son of God. What do you guys think?
I know that worship can mean something similar, but it's meaning is more towards a diety. hmm…
Quote Exodus 34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.The intrepretation of proskuneo and such words is seen in translation:
Acts 10:25
(KJV)
As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him.”(NIV)
As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence.I think it also has to do with authority… Peter was just a man and wasn't any higher or better then Cornelius. Yeshua was of-course in a higher position as future King, Messiah and Son of God, he should be respected and honored for that. While honoring Yeshua we honor God. However Yeshua also clearly told us (and was including himself) to only worship the Almighty God.
Not to Kathi… About Kathi!
Kathi does not know what she is saying. She claims that xhe Worships Jesus but there is NOTHING in what she writes of what she says or does that is WORSHIP.
The song in her is all about 'Praise, Honor and Glory' for Christ, and this is fully acceptable.
Nothing in the song pertains to Worship, nothing she has written pertains to Worship.
It has been noted that she is careful to claim worship of Christ 'To the Glory of the Father'.
This is a strange thing to say if she is adamant that she is worshipping Christ!
Kathi is a sentimentalist who is taking Christ like a child of her own and saying 'You done well son, and no matter what those nasty, ignorant people out there are saying, I'm going to make you my God. To you son, I pledge my life, my servitude and my everlasting devotion … Oh, of course, I mean for you to pass it on for me to your Father and to my Father'Kathi is simply replacing the words 'Honor, Praise and Glory' with one SHE likes better: 'Worship'
So, she is doing the right thing. Just using the wrong word(s) to say what she is doing.
Be kind to her for her error!
LU
Jesus said to worship God not him ,he says also to worship God in spirit,this means in knowledge ,understanding of him,and in your heart,this means from your part were the deepest feelings are stored,AND ABOVE ALL IN TRUTH,this means you will not apply or keep,lies or things you know are not the truth about him and his word.and that you would continue to search God truth forever.God looks for those worshipers.Jn 4:21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
Jn 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
Jn 4:23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 16 2010,23:38) Hi ST,
Does God have a bodily form??
He is invisible.You deny the human vessel Jesus.
Is it wise to deny the Son of our God?
Nick,
Hebrews 11:27
By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king's anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.How did Moses see “God”
Colossians 1:15
He is the image of the invisible God,Could it of been His Son?
Genesis 32:30
It is because I saw God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”Was it the invisible Father he saw and wrestled with?
John 14:9
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.Scripture supports that the Father is seen through His Son so I maintain that if I'm seeing the Father when I look at Jesus and I worship, it is the Father who is being worshipped
John 1:18
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.As to denying the human vessel, do you believe that Jesus is still just a corruptible human? I in no way implied or even believe that Jesus was anything more then 100% human from conception to resurrection, I do believe that He was more before and after said time period.
Now I also believe He had authority and power given to Him during His life on earth, but not the ALL authority and power He has now.
My opinion, Wm
Quote (Gene @ Feb. 16 2010,23:54) ST……….Thomas saw that GOD the FATHER was (IN) Jesus and He acknowledged it when He said My Lord (Jesus) (AND) My GOD, both were present in the vessel or temple of Jesus' Body. It just dawned on Thomas what Jesus was saying all along that the FATHER Was Indeed (IN) HIM. It was the FATHER HIMSELF that Said through Jesus' mouth , “DESTROY THIS TEMPLE AND IN THREE DAYS I SHALL RAISE IT UP”, that was GOD the FATHER speaking (FIRST PERSON) through Jesus. Two being were present in Jesus' body One was Jesus, and the other was GOD the FATHER. But in no way does that make Jesus himself a GOD because GOD was (IN) HIM> that is the POINT. IMO peace and love to you and yours………………gene
Gene,
I almost agree with you, up to the point that the Father spoke through Jesus, I believe Jesus proclaimed all that He heard the Father speak, but of His own free will, which is a discussion for another thread.My opinion, Wm
SeekingTruth,
If you worship Jesus because you think you are worshipping God THEN you are making Jesus into an IDOL.
You are worshipping the OBJECT of Christ.I say again and again and again. YOU (ALL) DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY WORSHIP – YOU (ALL) JUST USE THE WORD WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE and this is whythe discussion gets into a messy war of acceptance and denial.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS “PRAISING, HONORING AND GLORIFYING” JESUS but you mistakenly call it WORSHIP.
Ok, SeekingTruth, What do you do when you are 'WORSHIPPING JESUS' – Please explain.
Please explain without using the Words “Glorifying”, “Praising”, “Singing”, “Honoring” (These are also acceptable things to do to your fellow man)SeekingTruth,
Without going into to much expansion: Yes, Jesus spoke the words of his father 'of his own free will' BECAUSE that is the right thing for him to do and he always does the right thing. There is no comflict – there is no issue. Why do you raise it as a point for discussion
“For I can do nothing of myself except what I see the father doing….say what the Father says, FOR THIS REASON I WAS SENT (by the Father)Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 17 2010,17:45) SeekingTruth, If you worship Jesus because you think you are worshipping God THEN you are making Jesus into an IDOL.
You are worshipping the OBJECT of Christ.I say again and again and again. YOU (ALL) DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN BY WORSHIP – YOU (ALL) JUST USE THE WORD WITHOUT KNOWLEDGE and this is whythe discussion gets into a messy war of acceptance and denial.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS “PRAISING, HONORING AND GLORIFYING” JESUS but you mistakenly call it WORSHIP.
Ok, SeekingTruth, What do you do when you are 'WORSHIPPING JESUS' – Please explain.
Please explain without using the Words “Glorifying”, “Praising”, “Singing”, “Honoring” (These are also acceptable things to do to your fellow man)
Let's leave out how I “worship” (as I worship the Father) but let us look to scriptures.
Did people worship Jesus in scriptures? Did Jesus admonish them? when John tried to worship an angel what did he do? If it was “forbidden to worship the Son would He not of corrected them as the angel did John?terraricca stated “Jesus said to worship God not him” it sounds good, but makes claim that Jesus proclaimed “not to worship Him” and that is not in scripture.
I do agree however that a lot of this dis-agreement is about semantics.
My opinion, Wm
Quote (JustAskin @ Feb. 17 2010,17:49) SeekingTruth,
Without going into to much expansion: Yes, Jesus spoke the words of his father 'of his own free will' BECAUSE that is the right thing for him to do and he always does the right thing. There is no comflict – there is no issue. Why do you raise it as a point for discussion
“For I can do nothing of myself except what I see the father doing….say what the Father says, FOR THIS REASON I WAS SENT (by the Father)
I did not raise it, Gene did, I love Gene, but I disagree with his reason for stating “GOD the FATHER speaking (FIRST PERSON) through Jesus.” is he does not believe in free will. If I misspoke Gene please forgive me but that has been my take on your posts (unless I confused you with someone else, with my memory it is possible,
)Wm
SeekingTruth,
No angel would accept ANYTHING THAT REMOTELY could be viewed as “Worship” or even Praise, Glory or Honor – None.
So, to even bow down before an angel, even if not Worship would be dissauded by the angel.In the scriptures, The Greek word used and translated “Worship” has been shown to mean many other things other than “WORSHIP”. (The Greek Speakers here will post the translations…)
I notice that you won't say “How” you Worship. Sorry, this is THE important point, noone wants to say HOW they do it, just SAY thy do it and then claim and counter-claim for or against what they do. Is this reasonable if one is trying to reach a state of Holy Spirited knowledge and Truth? (One might as well be disputing how long a piece of string is!)
What is the CRITERIA for your interpretation of WORSHIP (What is the Criteria for the interpretation of Length and What does a piece of String Look like? By the way , there is a science program that addresses the issue of 'How long is a piece of String' and the stupid program 'proves' that the length of a 'piece of string' is INFINTE (Infinitely LONG!!!) So much for Scientific Proofs!!!)I ask again, then: Please can you say 'How' you perform your act of Worship?
JustAskin,
I agree no angel true to God would accept worship (never said they would) but neither should the Son of God if it also was inappropriateWorship to me, is obedience and an attitude of adoration and trust that can lead to singing, praising, and prayer, acknowledging the surpassing greatness of the Father for more then just who He is and what He has done but also for the extent of His grace, mercy and love.
Sorry I do not know Greek (many will tell you I don't know English) all I know is there are several places in the scripture that state Jesus accepted worship, so unless someone proves it means something else I will take it for what it says, least I be guilty of twisting scripture.
Sorry don't know much about string either.
My opinion, Wm
JustAskin – I just got to ask (play on words, get it!!) I noticed at the rate you're posting you'll pass my number of posts from 4 years, in just a couple of months… do you sleep?
JustAskin said:
Quote If you worship Jesus because you think you are worshipping God THEN you are making Jesus into an IDOL.
JA,You dissent from the rest of the creation. Revelation 5:13 says that every creature in heaven and in earth and under the earth worships the Lamb with the Father:
13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying:
“ Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and ever!”We are not interested in your persoanl views on the subject. Just give us the scriptures!
thinker
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