The most high god

Participant

Terra,

Thanks for your input.

However, I still await a definition of Worship!

How did the Jews Worship?
Where did they Worship?

What is False Worship?

LU says she Worships God and Christ when she sings – How is Worship different from 'Honor', 'Praise', 'Glorify'?

Nowhere in the Scriptures does it say that man should Worship Christ. By contrast, it explicitly says 'Worship God'.

The Scriptures says to Praise, honor and glorify Christ.

It also says to Praise, honor and Glorify God.

LU's desire to Worship Christ is based on emotions and sentiment because Christ died for her (for us).

How do we maintain the precedence of the Father over the Son if we attribute to the Son the one thing that is Exclusive to the Father: Worship, Worship of him who alone is God, him who alone is Holy, him who alone contains All Things and gives to any within himself (including Christ) as much or as little as he desires, and desires to receives back as much or as little as he requests.

February 13, 2010 at 3:22 pm#177617

Participant

JA
Christ himself says to worship God his father ,he also says the ones who love me obey my commends.this is clear to me

February 13, 2010 at 6:52 pm#177658

Participant

God is a God of diversity. I read today that there were over 1000 types of Walking Sticks (the insect) and wondered why? Perhaps there are many ways to worship God and not necessarily the same way each time so that it doesn't become monotonous and without fresh meaning. We need to sing a new song from our heart and not lip sync, sing in a different style, or just have quiet meditation, or dancing, or writing a journal…a love letter to God, or studying God's word, or prayer, or fasting, or painting a picture, or growing a garden-all to the glory of God and not to our own glory. We need to take what is in our mind about love and sink it into our hearts and body and express that love.

Sometimes we could focus our worship on different aspects of God's truth and we rejoice in God's Son, or God's creation, or God's future heaven and earth, or God the Father, or God's love for mankind, or God's healing touch, or God's provision, and on and on. How we express that worship should be fresh and real not dull and repetitive.

So, maybe worship is when we take our god and focus on that god with our body, mind, and spirit. Our god may be that new 52″ LCD TV, or some sport team, or car racing, or material item, or money, or control, or being a free spirit, or power…or it could be about God, our Father and all that He has given us for His glory (like His Son). So, because we worship God the Father, we can be worshipful about His Son. I really don't think that we can worship the Son without the mind being lined up in the truth that the Son is provided by the Father and therefore we give worship to both. Without the Son, we have no Father, we just have a God that does not save us.

My point-don't pigeon hole worship.

February 13, 2010 at 7:35 pm#177671

Participant

LU
if you ask grace before doing all things i agree with you,but the utility of thing are to considered
Paul said all is permitted but not all is usefull,
you can try to give me all your explanation why it is ok to worship Christ it will not change my mind ,you have not tell anything that i not already knew on that subject

Phil 3:8 What is more, I consider everything a loss compared to the surpassing greatness of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them rubbish, that I may gain Christ
Phil 3:15 All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you.
Phil 3:19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things.
Phil 4:8 Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him.
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
Col 2:17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ

February 13, 2010 at 7:41 pm#177673

NickHassan

Participant

Hi LU,
We in Christ have been purified by obedience to the truth [1Peter1.22]form a temple of which Christ Jesus is the cornerstone and in which a sacrifice of praise and worship to the Father through Jesus can be offered.
This is the appointed service of those in the Body of Christ.
eph 2.20, 1 Peter 2.4f,

February 13, 2010 at 7:45 pm#177675

Participant

LU,

You have answered well.

I noticed, though, that you were very careful to attribute Worship to God alone – until you justify Worshipping Christ by saying that it is through Christ that we Worship God and so, in effect, we are Worshipping Christ as well as God.

LU,
Christ's reward is that which he receives from his Father.

The 'reward' of the Father is that we come to Worship him 'in Spirit and in Truth'

Did not Satan seek to be Worshipped because of his 'great works' and caused himself to Sin?

Should we also try to 'tempt' Jesus by offering him Worship?

February 13, 2010 at 8:04 pm#177679

Participant

Nick,

Again, I applaud your input.

So, we will Worship God Spirit in the Temple of God of which Jesus Christ is the Chief cornerstone.

February 13, 2010 at 8:09 pm#177681

Participant

Sorry, bad bit of last post.

So, we will Worship God 'in Spirit' in his Temple, of which Jesus is the chief cornerstone.

February 13, 2010 at 11:40 pm#177707

Participant

Quote (mikeboll @ Feb. 13 2010,00:30)

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 13 2010,09:32)

Nick,
I think we are at an impass because you insist on a clear teaching from Jesus' own words that we can worship the Son of God. If it is not there then you will not worship the Son of God as the Son. I believe that Jesus isn't going to tell us to worship Himself and leaves that to the Spirit to quicken our hearts towards worship of the Son AND the Father as it is the will of the Father.

Thanks,
Kathi

Hi Kathi,

How many times did God, Jesus, prophets, kings, and just ordinary people in the bible talk about worshipping God? Countless times! Are you saying we are expected to worship Jesus when he or no one else in the bible says to? We are just supposed to know to do this by Spirit? I don't understand.

Peace
Mike

Hi Mike,
I think that worship nowadays is not by the rituals of worship that took place before the Spirit was given. After the Spirit was given, we are to be filled with the Spirit and led by the Spirit in all we do.

Gal 5:18
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law.
NASU

If we follow the Spirit and He leads us to worship the Father and the Son, then we ought to do that from our hearts and not fake it because then it wouldn't be done in truth.

I see a lot of songs of praise for the Lamb as worshipful and can't imagine feeling guilty about singing them. One would certainly alienate themselves from many who are among the body of Christ if they can't sing along. We need more pursuit of unity rather than division.

Blessings,
Kathi

February 14, 2010 at 4:14 am#177741

mikeboll64

Blocked

Hi Kathi,
Hope you are well.

If we could truly rely on Spirit to guide our lives, why do we need the Word of God? Throw it away and do whatever you think the Spirit is telling you to do.

“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…” (2 Timothy 3:16)

Do you remember we were warned that Satan would disguise himself as an angel of light to mislead many?

As I said in my last post, we are told in the Bible over and over to worship ONLY God. Don't you think if we were suppose to worship Jesus too, it would have been mentioned at least once? And I don't mean a scrip where someone might have woshipped him. After all, John tried to worship an angel twice in Revelation. I'm saying if Jesus was meant to be worshipped, I think we would have been clearly told that over and over in Scripture.

The people who worship Mary as the Mother of God, and the saints aren't necessarily evil people. They have been mislead (either directly or indirectly) by that original serpent-the one who has been misleading the entire inhabited earth. But in their minds and hearts, those people are being led by Spirit.

But think of this from Satan's viewpoint. He knows if he tries to slam God, people will defend Him vehemently. But if he misleads people more slightly–say, convince them to worship God in a way that goes against what the Bible teaches–he can find many takers.

People who worship Jesus as God (or even as a deity known as the Son of God), can't possibly be worshipping Jehovah with their WHOLE hearts, minds, souls and strength. Jesus calls Jehovah the ONLY true God. Shouldn't that be good enough for us?

As far as the songs, I listen almost exclusively to contemporary Christian music. And I cringe a little every time I hear ones that worship Jesus as God. But even though there are a lot of talented songwriters and members of the Body of Christ who are mislead, I don't worry about being alienated from them. I remember that the road to destruction is wide and full of people, and the road to life is narrow with few people finding it.

We are told “Get out of her, my people!” I believe Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion. And I consider myself blessed to be alienated from her.

I know I rambled on on this post, but one last thought about being alienated from the Body of Christ: “Yet at the time many even among the leaders believed in him. But because of the Pharisees they would not confess their faith for fear they would be put out of the synagogue; for they loved praise from men more than praise from God.” (John 12:42-43)

I know to become a full-fledged member of many churches, one must agree to their “core beliefs”, which include the belief that Jesus is God. I feel that is why so many people confess to a trinity even though they couldn't explain it if they tried. But even the ones who think the Trintiy Doctrine is nonsense keep their mouths shut, because they don't want to be alienated from their church, for they love praise from men more than praise from God.

Love,
Mike

February 14, 2010 at 6:21 am#177768

Elizabeth

Participant

IMO you can worship in many ways. Saying a prayer that uses lots of words, IMO God our Father really does not want us to do. He loves a contrite and humble Spirit , a Heart that is only for Him. A wise man said once that if you Sing to God it's praying twice. That is were my Love is. Also the Psalms are great to use to worship. There is a Scripture that tells us that if you believe in a false and man made doctrine that you worship in vain. Math. 15:9. I don't know how you feel about just thinking in Love to our Heavenly Father and Meditating, can be a good worship session. I really don't use a formal prayer. I speak to God like I would talk to you. I tell Him first of all how grateful I am and thank Him for all the things He has done for us. We here in American and parts of Europe are so lucky to have so much. Mostly the freedom that we have, we should thank God for that every day. Then I go into asking for all the people that are sick and need His help. It warms my Heart when I get so close to our Father in Heaven. At times it feels like He is sitting right next to me. It is a natural high that only God can give us. That kind of Love is so great, and I wish with all of my Heart that all would experience that with me….I also like to just talk with other Brethren about God. Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am in the mids of you. That is so true…We did that so much when we belonged to the W.W.Church of God. Now my Husband and I do it, but not enough….
With all my Love and Peace be with all of you, Irene

February 14, 2010 at 9:48 am#177787

Participant

Mike,

I am your echo.

I felt as though I had written your last post.

God Bless you.

February 14, 2010 at 9:56 am#177790

Participant

Elizabeth,

Good post, but like LU, what you wrote is what you do as your perception of Worship – I don't say continue doing what you are doing and stay God Blessed.

However, I was after a 'definition' of WORSHIP.

To all,
What seems to be coming clear is that none of us know what WORSHIP is – or at least, not in this day and age.

We use the word freely and vehemently confess to do it but can't actually explain it, why is that?

February 14, 2010 at 9:58 am#177791

Participant

Elizabeth,
'…I say, Continue doing…' Correction to text in last post.

February 14, 2010 at 10:54 am#177800

Participant

what is worshiping the true God;? well let see what is not worshiping him;we may find the answer there;

not worshiping God = is not recognize him as you creator, so worship him would be recognize him as your creator.

not worshiping God= not recognize him as the giver of live the source of all things; so worship God would be =to recognize him as your live given source.

not worshiping God=pay no attention to him give him no glory and give glory to other things; so worship God would be = give him glory as God and never give glory the same way to anything else because is glory would be above it all'

not worshiping God in the spirit ;not be interested in is word,refusing to practice what is right,always see your own interest,use others to rise yourself,working to higher ego standards.ect;

worship God would be=humbling yourself, applying all the thing of God in your live,practice what is right in his eyes,working to help others in Gods will.

have faith and hope in God and Christ the way it is written in the bible.

to me this is true worship

February 14, 2010 at 11:23 am#177804

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 13 2010,23:14)

Hi Kathi,
Hope you are well.

If we could truly rely on Spirit to guide our lives, why do we need the Word of God? Throw it away and do whatever you think the Spirit is telling you to do.

“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness…” (2 Timothy 3:16)

Do you remember we were warned that Satan would disguise himself as an angel of light to mislead many?

We are told “Get out of her, my people!” I believe Babylon the Great is the world empire of false religion. And I consider myself blessed to be alienated from her.

Love,
Mike

Hi Mike,
Thanks for you input, I happen to disagree with you on some things and agree with you on other things. I am going to have to side with the disciples on this one though, sorry!

John 20:28-29
28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.”
NASU

Who did Thomas say that to? To “Him” not “them” and the Him is Jesus.

I do believe that Jesus' response to me is “blessed are they who did not see and yet believed.”

I do not equate the Son with the Father but I do believe that the Son is my Lord and my God and I believe that of the Father also. The Father is my Lord and my Most High God.

Together they are my united Godhead for where would we be without either one of them?

In a few hours, my family will attend church because they teach that Jesus is my Lord and my God with the Father and they believe in the Bible as without error.

Jesus is supposed to be the head of the church, not the Father. The Father is Jesus's head. Are you looking for a church where Jesus is NOT the head?

Eph 4:7-16
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ's gift. 8 Therefore it says, “WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH, HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN.” 9 (Now this expression, “He ascended,” what does it mean except that He also had descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things.) 11 And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; 15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
NASU

Love is the goal, with those who are mature and with those who are not mature in the faith. A church is not automatically a unity of faith. The church is to attain to the unity of faith. If you think that you have more truth than others at your old church, maybe you should be there speaking the truth in love and not judging them unfit. Have you found another body of believers that believe just like you on every point? I don't think any of us will because we now see only dimly, and some more dimly than others.

Be led to a body of believers by the Spirit and grow in love. Let Christ be the head…He is sufficient to purify the members with His refining fire whether it takes a moment or a lifetime. Thankfully, He is in charge of His church and we are not the head. If we focus on love, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, and making disciples, and building up of the brethren, in humility, we will do well.

Kathi

February 14, 2010 at 11:30 am#177805

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 14 2010,05:54)

what is worshiping the true God;? well let see what is not worshiping him;we may find the answer there;

not worshiping God = is not recognize him as you creator, so worship him would be recognize him as your creator.

not worshiping God= not recognize him as the giver of live the source of all things; so worship God would be =to recognize him as your live given source.

not worshiping God in the spirit ;not be interested in is word,refusing to practice what is right,always see your own interest,use others to rise yourself,working to higher ego standards.ect;

worship God would be=humbling yourself, applying all the thing of God in your live,practice what is right in his eyes,working to help others in Gods will.

have faith and hope in God and Christ the way it is written in the bible.

to me this is true worship

Hi terricca,
I noticed that the word “love” is not anywhere in your post? Are we not told to:

Matt 22:37-39
37 And He said to him, ” 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'
38 “This is the great and foremost commandment.
39 “The second is like it, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.'
NASU

Do you think that the Father would feel worshipped if we neglected the above?

February 14, 2010 at 11:40 am#177807

Participant

Terra,
Thank you for your post.

We are moving slowly towards a definition.

However, by the very fact that you need to define Worship from the inverse viewpoint show there is a real difficulty in defining 'What Is Worship' (Because saying isn't something doesn't necessarily automatically imply that the opposite!:
I saw a four-footed creature but it Wasn't a Cat… Then it Must have been a Dog [mustn't it?])

February 14, 2010 at 11:48 am#177808

Participant

you right i did not specify the word LOVE,but i figure that people would understand if i say to worship God ;humbling yourself, applying all the thing of God in your live,practice what is right in his eyes,working to help others in Gods will.
this would imply our love for our God,don't you think??

February 14, 2010 at 11:58 am#177809