- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 24 2009,13:33) G,
If the Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but guides and reminds us of scripture why do you teach things that are not in scripture like Spirit is Intellect?Perhaps it is another spirit?
Test the spirits.You are adding to confusion by adding your own ideas just as trinity theorists do.
NIck…….Do you have any idea what you have Just said, The reason it says it does not speak on Its own initiative is because it is not a person it is SPIRIT (Intellect) and only relays to us what it hears, another words it relays to us GOD'S MIND on something. It is pure INTELLECT it both accuses and defends us also. It is the MIND OF GOD AT WORK IN US and YOU SAY It has (NO) intellect. Pure HOGWASH NICK. All spirit is (INTELLECT) of some kind. IMOIf not prove it show us scripture that says Spirit is (NOT) INTELLECT then. And Perhaps you have another Spirit and we are told to TEST the Spirits , But then YOU don't Know what Spirits is and obviously you don't believe that It has anything to do with intellect, So how would even know how to test any thing. Seeing you are void of INTELLECT (SPIRIT) So what do you try them with, your lack of understanding? YOU cant say by the word of GOD , when you don't even know what a (WORD) IS> But tkanks to GOD Jesus did not leave us in the DARK, He Clearly told US what words (ARE) THEY (ARE) SPIRIT AND LIFE. Nick you need to take up your argument with Jesus Not ME, He is the One who said what words ARE not me. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
G,
WE know you have this thought pattern but you should not claim it has any spititual validity as scripture never says it.When you decide to base you teachings on your own ideas and not scripture?
Trinity has the same basis.
God spoke through His Prophets and His Son[Heb1, 2Peter]
You might be a clanging cymbal perhaps as you are not spiritually appointed?Nick………..What makes you think that the HOLY SPIRIT is not Showing me what the SCRIPTURE Means. If it is wrong then you are under obligation to prove it wrong, I have quoted exactly what Jesus HIMSELF SAID, its not my fault you can't understand it. and to think I am teaching My own Ideas and Scripture contradicts them is a supposition on you Part and could very well mean (YOU) are the one Not Spiritually Appointed and you may be a clanginig cymbal yourself. That is all i have ever ask you Nick is to produce the Proof where what i quoted Jesus said and gave mean to it was wrong I must have ask you that a hundred time and you have yet to produce anything. Show Us where (WORDS) are (NOT) SPIRIT and Where WORD are not an expression of (INTELLECT) Show it don't Just ignore it Show it in SCRIPTURE and if I am Wrong I will Change , But i certainly will not change by you just mouthing of accusations toward me.
IMOgene
G,
The Spirit does not speak on His own initiative but reminds us of the words of Jesus.
This is how false teachers are known.
You add to scripture.Nick………..Word mean nothing without (UNDERSTANDING) they are useless. You can parrot the Bible from on end to the other and have (NO) idea what It is saying, this why it takes the HOLY Spirit or INTELLECT of GOD to understand them. Words without understanding are clouds without rain, useless. IMO
peace……….gene
G,
You hold up your understandings above scripture because you think scripture cannot be grasped without your help.You should stand aside and let God talk.
Nick……….What makes you think GOD is not talking through His Children HERE, Because you can't understand what is being said is no indication GOD isn't teaching and giving understanding to other, He really doesn't need your indifference to His words or work. IMO
gene
Nick……….But it is (NOT) NEW teaching it is (UNDERSTANDING) what is already written . YOU just don't get It! YOU are also wrong in saying the spirit of God does not add to scripture, It give God's words grater understanding. Without the spirit that is all you can do is Parrot scripture , and that means nothing and you stagnate and don't Grow in Grace AND Knowledge as we are told to do. “study to show (YOURSELVES) approved unto GOD, a workman who need not to be ashamed” (how) By “Rightly dividing the word of TRUTH”. WE all must continue to GROW and Not stagnate, we must let the spirit bring forth living waters from within us all. A Scribe should bring forth (BOTH) NEW and OLD things right. Does it not say that. Don't despise the work of the Spirit Nick, in anyone.
gene
G,
My God is more than intellect.
You have rejected trinity so why not grasp the teachings of the God of Love?NIck……….Gods intellect is very deficiently LOVE, all who Have GOD Spirit (INTELLECT) in them also Have His love shed around in the Hearts . Do you think Love is Just emotion apart from INTELLECT, It is the intellect that causes the emotion of LOVE, The intellect of GOD is the highest level of LOVE anyone could Have. IMO
gene
G,
I guess you have to change the meaning of intellect to make it fit?Are you more of a head person than a heart person then?
Is God like you?
Nick……..The word Heart in Greek is MIND the Head Leads the Heart , the intellect in the HEAD or Mind causes emotion, which we call heart. The mind of GOD cause the LOVE OF GOD to be shed around in our hearts. Notice I said the Mind of (GOD) not the mind of the world. Here is a good example, what caused you to feel sorrow, if you see a handy cap child do you not (FEEL) Sorrow, Is this sorrow is a result of some mysterious feeling (called Heart) or is it the result of INTELLECT IN YOU. GOD Petties US as a FATHER Petties HIS Children. Have you ever experienced that NICK, I have and why do I Pattie them , It's because I know Life is Hard and has many Problems in it , because I have experience it my self, This KNOWLEDGE causes and it grieves me if i see my children going through those experiences also. To think Emotions of LOVE are not the Results of our INTELLECT is PURE FOOLISHNESS. IMO
gene
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 01 2009,15:24) Hi all, This list is some of the things that Jesus is NOT THE SOURCE OF and therefore not the Most High God who MUST BE the source of ALL GOOD THINGS…i.e. His Father. I do believe that Jesus is the begotten God however, just not the Most High God who brought Him forth in the beginning. Some credit Jesus as the Most High God but how can that be if He is NOT the source of so many things.
All these things were GIVEN to Jesus which means He was not the ultimate source of these things:
Authority
All things
All judgment
Works to accomplish
Those that will come to Him which He will raise up on the last day
The good works that He showed the Jews
A commandment as to what to say and what to speak
Authority over all flesh
The work, which the Father had given Him to do
The words “which You gave Me”
The Father ‘s name
The glory
The cup “which the Father has given me”You can find these things in these verses:
Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
NASU
John 3:35
35 “The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.
NASU
John 5:22
22 “For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son
NASU
John 5:36
36 “But the testimony which I have is greater than the testimony of John; for the works which the Father has given Me to accomplish — the very works that I do — testify about Me, that the Father has sent Me.
NASU
John 6:32-33
32 Jesus then said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, it is not Moses who has given you the bread out of heaven, but it is My Father who gives you the true bread out of heaven.
33 “For the bread of God is that which comes down out of heaven, and gives life to the world.”
NASU
John 6:37-39
37 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39 “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
NASU
John 10:25-32
25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me.
26 “But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
27 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 “My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
30 “I and the Father are one.”
31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him.
32 Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?”
NASU
John 12:49-50
49 “For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.
50 “I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”
NASU
John 13:3-4
3 Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into His hands, and that He had come forth from God and was going back to God,
4 got up from supper, and laid aside His garments; and taking a towel, He girded Himself.
NASU
John 17:2-3
2 even as You gave Him authority over all flesh, that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
3 “This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
NASU
John 17:4
4 “I glorified You on the earth, having accomplished the work which You have given Me to do.
NASU
John 17:7-8
7 “Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You;
8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me.
NASU
John 17:9-12
9 “I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours;
10 and all things that are Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine; and I have been glorified in them.
11 “I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.
12 “While I was with them, I was keeping them in Your name which You have given Me; and I guarded them and not one of them perished but the son of perdition, so that the Scripture would be fulfilled.
NASU
John 17:22-24
22 “The glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one, just as We are one;
23 I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected in unity, so that the world may know that You sent Me, and loved them, even as You have loved Me.
24 “Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.
NASU
John 18:11
11 So Jesus said to Peter, “Put the sword into the sheath; the cup which the Father has given Me, shall I not drink it?”
NASUNever the less, we are to honor the Son as we honor the Father. I am happy to honor the Son…He is worthy!
God bless,
Kathi
Good post, however I believe that God the Father only should we worship, while His Son, who is King of Kings and Lord of Lords we should give Honor and glory. We go through Jesus to go to the throne of God and worship Hm. Jesus is our Mediator to do so. The Father cannot look on sin, and sin we do. If we believe otherwiase John tells us the truth is not in us. I also belief that the Father is the Almigty God and Jesus the Mighty God. In
Hebrew 1:8 The Father says this. But to the Son He says
” Your throne, O God is forever and ever, A scepter of righteousness is a scepter of Your Kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, your God has anointed You with the oil of gladness more then Yiour companions.” And of course
John 1:1
Peace and Love IreneHi Irene,
Why do you think that the Father told the angels to worship the Son in Hebrews 1?Love, Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2009,14:50) Hi Irene,
Why do you think that the Father told the angels to worship the Son in Hebrews 1?Love, Kathi
I believe that the Son sits next to the Father, and what is your definition about worship? Honor and glory we should definitly give our Savior Jesus Christ. But why is He our Mediator. We go through Him and go to the Throne of God, to pray and ask for forgiveness of our sins. Also do the Angels not serve God and Jesus? They also are our helpers here on Earth. They are Ministering Spirits.
Hebrew 1:13-14
I put verse 13 down to show that they are Angels and they are ministering to those who inherit salvation, verse 14.
Peace and Love IreneQuote (georg @ Sep. 25 2009,23:18) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2009,14:50) Hi Irene,
Why do you think that the Father told the angels to worship the Son in Hebrews 1?Love, Kathi
I believe that the Son sits next to the Father, and what is your definition about worship? Honor and glory we should definitly give our Savior Jesus Christ. But why is He our Mediator. We go through Him and go to the Throne of God, to pray and ask for forgiveness of our sins. Also do the Angels not serve God and Jesus? They also are our helpers here on Earth. They are Ministering Spirits.
Hebrew 1:13-14
I put verse 13 down to show that they are Angels and they are ministering to those who inherit salvation, verse 14.
Peace and Love Irene
Irene,
The Angels are told to worship the Son…why do you think?
The Son didn't die for them. The fallen angels have no savior in the Son or in the Father for that matter. The angels not only minister to the Father and the Son but after the Son's exaltation, now they worship the Father AND the Son. Why would it be right for the angels to worship the Father AND the Son yet you think it to be wrong for us to worship the Father AND the Son? It is not idolatry for the angels to worship the Father AND the Son is it? Why would it be for us?Love,
KathiThe word for worship is also the same word for honour.
Jesus was and is and will be worshipped/honoured as the son of God and the lamb of God.
The Father is worshipped/honoured as God.
So if the angels worship him, then it is not as the Most High but as the son of the Most High and as the lamb of God who was worthy to be slain.
So no commandment is broken.
Revelation 3:9
Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.The word for worship here is “proskuneo”. It is the same word in the following scripture.
Revelation 19:4
And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.So the same word for 'worship' is used of God, Jesus, and some of the saints. When you see it as “honour”, then it depends on what you are honouring someone else as.
e.g., if I honour my father and mother, surely that honour would be different in deed if I was standing before the throne of God and honouring him.
Definition of proskuneo:
to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence
among the Orientals, esp. the Persians, to fall upon the
knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an
expression of profound reverence in the NT by kneeling
or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance,
whether in order to express respect or to make supplication
used of homage shown to men and beings of superior rank
to the Jewish high priests
to God
to Christ
to heavenly beings
to demonsWhat is worship except applying the appropriate honor to a position, The Father as the greatest is due the highest honor and as the source of all things He is due exclusive praise for this, Jesus never sought this or any other praise. But the Son has been given ALL power and authority in heaven and on earth and is due all the honor of this position.
Vain worship of even the Father is condemned, spirit and truth are required for true worship, it is by Jesus we are able to come to the Father in true worship and I will “honor” the Son for what by His obedience He has done for us. Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”
My Opinion – Wm
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
