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Thinker………So when Jesus said the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of Himself the Father in me (HE) doth the works , He really didn't mean that? and When David spoke as a prophet and said “THE LORD (GOD) SAID UNTO MY LORD SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL (I) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL”, it doesn't meant it either.
How do you connect being Worthy as meaning someone (OWES) something to you?. Being Worthy of something does not mean some one owes you anything. It simply means you have the worthiness to have that honor bestowed on you, OWE has nothing to do with it. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,04:55) Jodi lee said: Quote Excuse me TT, but the TIME was manifested BY whom? Not by Jesus's OWN time, but by the Father's. So what I said still stands! Jodi Lee,
What you said does NOT “still stand” because Jesus is no longer limited. The facts about Jesus are presented to us as an unfolding story in scripture. The problem with you Arians is that you close the book before you read on about His exaltation and glorification. The end result is a story that has been distorted and even misrepresented.Jesus is no longer limited by His flesh because He has put off that flesh. He anticipated the time when He would know ALL things. He said that all truth is His own. “All that the Father has IS MINE.”
The “He” in 1 Timothy 6:15 is Christ. It is without dispute.
Quote 14 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ’s appearing, 15 which He will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
How can you say that the pronouns “Him” and “He” refer to the Father? It clearly says, “THE LORD JESUS CHRIST'S appearing, which HE will manifest in HIS own time.” Again, the Father is not mentioned in this passage. You put the Father there because you think that Jesus is still limited. But He said that when He was glorified that all truth “IS MINE.” After He was glorified He said that He has “ALL authority.” If He now has ALL authority then he can manifest Himself in HIS own time.Jodi Lee:
Quote Scripture has shown that indeed there has existed throughout time several people of whom YHWH has referred to as being the King of Kings. Jesus is appointed to be the king over many saints who will also be kings.
Chapter and verse please.Jodi Lee:
Quote TT why don't you give us a scripture that says Jesus the CHRIST will know all things Again?
Apparently you did not read my post carefully. Before His exaltation He said “My doctrine is not mine but His that sent me.” He told His disciples that the time of His return was not His to disclose. But He anticipated the time when all truth would be His own, “ALL that the Father has IS MINE.” He was speaking about THINGS TO COME specifically and said “ALL THINGS ARE MINE.”Jodi Lee:
Quote Jesus is still a servant, and still a creation, a human being RECEIVING IMMORTALITY to the honor and glory, to the intelligence and patience of Our Almighty Father YHWH.
Then why did Paul say that Christ WILL become subject (future)? Paul said that when this happens Christ will deliver the kingdom and become subject in the came way that all others authorities become subject. Until then He is King of kings and Lord of lords and is subject to NONE. When this happens God WILL become all in all. Until then Christ is ALL IN ALL (Colossians 3:11).Jodi Lee:
Quote TT you need to face the biblical facts that Jesus is a MAN, MADE to be a savior and king for us through the work of his Father, YHWH.
You got it backwards Sis! There is not one scripture that says that Christ is Savior and King through the Father. All things come THROUGH Christ. “All things were created THROUGH Him.” Hebrews clearly says that Christ “became the AUTHOR of eternal salvation to all who obey Him” (Heb. 5:9). It says that Christ became the AUTHOR of eternal salvation! The scripture is replete with statements which say that the Father operates THROUGH Christ. Even in the days of His flesh it was notthrough the Father” as you say. It was Jesus “in” the Father and the Father “in” Jesus. No where does the Bible say “through the Father.” In His exalted condition Jesus Christ is the “Only Sovereign” (1 Timothy 6:14-16).The Arians greatly err in saying that Jesus was merely a man. John 1:1 says that “the Word was what God was” (NEB). And verse 14 says that the Word was “made flesh.” Therefore, Jesus was more than a mere man.
thinker
Hi JackGood points!
Its laughable how they twist the scriptures to fit their manmade doctrines, and so it is written of them…
Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. “His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, “WHICH IGNORANT AND UNSTABLE PEOPLE DISTORT, AS THEY DO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES”, to their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:15, 16
Scriptures clearly state that Jesus is the “King of Kings” and Lord of Lords” and that at this time he has not yet subjected himself to the Father, but in fact is at the Fathers right hand with ALL authority and power in his hands.
The carnal mind of men insist on making a Jesus after their own image by creating a false image of our Great God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, (Titus 2:13) and in doing so have fulfilled the scriptures that are spoken of them…
“Because that, when they knew God, they glorified [him] not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, “and changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things”. Rom 1:20-22
Who is the “Glory of the incorruptable God” that they changed?
“**THE SON IS THE RADIANCE OF GOD'S GLORY** and the exact representation of his being“, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. Heb 1:3
They do not understand what “exact representation of his being” means!
They think that some born or created thing can be the “exact representation of his (Gods) being“! Nothing can exactly represent an infinite God, but the infinite God himself!
They still see Jesus in the days of his flesh, and are blinded to see that Jesus is infinite in Power, and Wisdom, and Glory!
Even if they cannot see him ontologically as One God with t
he Father in nature, they still refuse to see him as God at all, therefore denying scriptures that say he is, yet they give place on their lips for other so-called gods!They give lip service to giving honor to Jesus with the same honor as they give the Father!
They are looking for the appearing of the Father, but it is our Lord and God, Jesus that we are looking for…
while we wait for the blessed hope–”THE GLORIOUS APPEARING OF OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR, JESUS CHRIST, Titus 2:13
Blessings WJ
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,11:48) Thinker………So when Jesus said the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of Himself the Father in me (HE) doth the works , He really didn't mean that? and When David spoke as a prophet and said “THE LORD (GOD) SAID UNTO MY LORD SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL (I) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL”, it doesn't meant it either. How do you connect being Worthy as meaning someone (OWES) something to you?. Being Worthy of something does not mean some one owes you anything. It simply means you have the worthiness to have that honor bestowed on you, OWE has nothing to do with it. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
GeneIt has been explained to you before that when it says “he can do nothing of himself”, it is saying that he does nothing on his own initiative!
“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, “but what he seeth the Father do“: “FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE. John 5:19
Why do you leave out the last part of the verse?
Did Jesus see what the Father does and do it also, or not?
Do you know a mere man that can make this claim?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 15 2009,12:10) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,11:48) Thinker………So when Jesus said the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of Himself the Father in me (HE) doth the works , He really didn't mean that? and When David spoke as a prophet and said “THE LORD (GOD) SAID UNTO MY LORD SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL (I) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL”, it doesn't meant it either. How do you connect being Worthy as meaning someone (OWES) something to you?. Being Worthy of something does not mean some one owes you anything. It simply means you have the worthiness to have that honor bestowed on you, OWE has nothing to do with it. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
GeneIt has been explained to you before that when it says “he can do nothing of himself”, it is saying that he does nothing on his own initiative!
“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, “but what he seeth the Father do“: “FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE. John 5:19
Why do you leave out the last part of the verse?
Did Jesus see what the Father does and do it also, or not!
Do you know a mere man that can make this claim?
WJ
Hi Keith,
This man claims to see what the Father is doing as well as hear the voice of God 24/7. It is an interesting interview:http://www.sidroth.org/site….id=8639
Doesn't it make you want to order the book? I did!
Blessings,
KathiQuote (Lightenup @ Sep. 15 2009,14:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 15 2009,12:10) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,11:48) Thinker………So when Jesus said the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of Himself the Father in me (HE) doth the works , He really didn't mean that? and When David spoke as a prophet and said “THE LORD (GOD) SAID UNTO MY LORD SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL (I) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL”, it doesn't meant it either. How do you connect being Worthy as meaning someone (OWES) something to you?. Being Worthy of something does not mean some one owes you anything. It simply means you have the worthiness to have that honor bestowed on you, OWE has nothing to do with it. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
GeneIt has been explained to you before that when it says “he can do nothing of himself”, it is saying that he does nothing on his own initiative!
“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, “but what he seeth the Father do“: “FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE. John 5:19
Why do you leave out the last part of the verse?
Did Jesus see what the Father does and do it also, or not!
Do you know a mere man that can make this claim?
WJ
Hi Keith,
This man claims to see what the Father is doing as well as hear the voice of God 24/7. It is an interesting interview:http://www.sidroth.org/site….id=8639
Doesn't it make you want to order the book? I did!
Blessings,
Kathi
Hi KathiWhat are you saying, that this man is equal to the “Only Son of God” or that when signs and wonders follow them that believe that the believers by their own power does the works?
Jesus claims that he does the works, how because his claim is that the Father had given all things into his hands!
Does this man claim this?
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 16 2009,04:10) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,11:48) Thinker………So when Jesus said the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of Himself the Father in me (HE) doth the works , He really didn't mean that? and When David spoke as a prophet and said “THE LORD (GOD) SAID UNTO MY LORD SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL (I) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL”, it doesn't meant it either. How do you connect being Worthy as meaning someone (OWES) something to you?. Being Worthy of something does not mean some one owes you anything. It simply means you have the worthiness to have that honor bestowed on you, OWE has nothing to do with it. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
GeneIt has been explained to you before that when it says “he can do nothing of himself”, it is saying that he does nothing on his own initiative!
“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, “but what he seeth the Father do“: “FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE. John 5:19
Why do you leave out the last part of the verse?
Did Jesus see what the Father does and do it also, or not!
Do you know a mere man that can make this claim?
WJ
Hi WJ,
He walked in the authority, power and anointing of the indwelling Spirit of his God.Do you think he had to be special and different from other ordinary men to be able to do this?
If so then you deny the gospel and say God cannot live in you and do the same, even greater works.
Wake up and recognise the God of Israel in and working through the Son of God and listen to and follow Jesus.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 15 2009,14:21) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 16 2009,04:10) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,11:48) Thinker………So when Jesus said the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of Himself the Father in me (HE) doth the works , He really didn't mean that? and When David spoke as a prophet and said “THE LORD (GOD) SAID UNTO MY LORD SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL (I) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL”, it doesn't meant it either. How do you connect being Worthy as meaning someone (OWES) something to you?. Being Worthy of something does not mean some one owes you anything. It simply means you have the worthiness to have that honor bestowed on you, OWE has nothing to do with it. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
GeneIt has been explained to you before that when it says “he can do nothing of himself”, it is saying that he does nothing on his own initiative!
“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, “but what he seeth the Father do“: “FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE. John 5:19
Why do you leave out the last part of the verse?
Did Jesus see what the Father does and do it also, or not!
Do you know a mere man that can make this claim?
WJ
Hi WJ,
He walked in the authority, power and anointing of the indwelling Spirit of his God.Do you think he had to be special and different from other ordinary men to be able to do this?
If so then you deny the gospel and say God cannot live in you and do the same, even greater works.
Wake up and recognise the God of Israel in and working through the Son of God and listen to and follow Jesus.
NHI do not hear you or anyone else claiming…
“FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE
This is not the Father solely doing the works in Jesus like he may do in us!
Do you see the word “Likewise”?
How about “Doeth the Son Likewise”?
WJ
Gene said:
Quote Thinker………So when Jesus said the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of Himself the Father in me (HE) doth the works , He really didn't mean that? and When David spoke as a prophet and said “THE LORD (GOD) SAID UNTO MY LORD SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL (I) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL”, it doesn't meant it either. Gene,
I have explained it a zillion times to you. Jesus could not act on His authority WHILE HE WAS IN THE FLESH. He has ALL authority now!Gene:
Quote How do you connect being Worthy as meaning someone (OWES) something to you?. Being Worthy of something does not mean some one owes you anything. What kind of justice is this you speak of?
Jesus said, “The laborer is worthy of his hire.” Does this not mean that the laborer is OWED his money at the end of the day? Even though he is a servant in the field the landowner OWES him. The laborer is worthy if he has done the work and has done it well! The landowner is above his worker. But at the end of the day the landowner is UNDER the worker to pay.So the Father made an oath to the Son and was consequently bound to the Son by that oath. The Father said, “I swear and will not change.” The Son fulfilled the whole plan of God and was worthy of the reward. The Father OWED the Son the rewards promised. The Father payed what He OWED because HE IS JUST.
So the Son knows ALL THINGS NOW. This was His reward for finishing the work His Father gave Him to do. Christ ALONE was found worthy to read the scroll containing the unfolding plan His Father. In His flesh it was not His to know or disclose. But it is His to know and disclose now.
Suppose you made an oath to your son and said, “You do this for me and do it well and I will give you all the secrets to my business.” Then your son fulfills all that you required. Is he not worthy and do you not OWE him? Would you be a just father if you said to him, “I am the father. This is my business and I owe you nothing?” If your son fulfilled all that you required then he is worthy of what you promised. You would OWE it to him to tell him all the secrets of your business.
If you being a mere man would know how to be just to your son and pay what you OWE, then how much more would Christ's Father be just toward Him?
Christ was promised to be made King of kings and Lord of lords and the Father payed His oath. Jesus Christ is the “ONLY sovereign, King of kings and Lord of lords” (1 Tiimothy 6:14-16 & Revelation 19:15-16).
Not only do you need to re-think your Christology. You also need to re-think your views of God's justice and righteousness.
thinker
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 15 2009,14:34) Listen and learn Keith. You will find the answers you are looking for if you listen. K
Hi KathiI did listen and what I heard is the power comes through him from God!
Who has all the authority and power at this time Kathi?
You should take off your Henotheistic glasses and see that the power comes from God alone and Jesus has that power!
WJ
Hi WJ,
Of course.He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and power.
God was with him[Acts 10]Did you think he was God?
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 15 2009,14:06) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Sep. 15 2009,12:10) Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,11:48) Thinker………So when Jesus said the son of Man can do (NOTHING) of Himself the Father in me (HE) doth the works , He really didn't mean that? and When David spoke as a prophet and said “THE LORD (GOD) SAID UNTO MY LORD SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND UNTIL (I) MAKE YOUR ENEMIES YOUR FOOT STOOL”, it doesn't meant it either. How do you connect being Worthy as meaning someone (OWES) something to you?. Being Worthy of something does not mean some one owes you anything. It simply means you have the worthiness to have that honor bestowed on you, OWE has nothing to do with it. IMO
peace and love…………………….gene
GeneIt has been explained to you before that when it says “he can do nothing of himself”, it is saying that he does nothing on his own initiative!
“Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, “but what he seeth the Father do“: “FOR WHAT THINGS SOEVER HE DOETH, THESE ALSO DOETH THE SON LIKEWISE. John 5:19
Why do you leave out the last part of the verse?
Did Jesus see what the Father does and do it also, or not!
Do you know a mere man that can make this claim?
WJ
Hi Keith,
This man claims to see what the Father is doing as well as hear the voice of God 24/7. It is an interesting interview:http://www.sidroth.org/site….id=8639
Doesn't it make you want to order the book? I did!
Blessings,
Kathi
Hi KathiBTW, why is it that most of your links, or where you get your teaching from is Trinitarian?
Sid Roth is a Trinitarian you know.
This guy Mark Virkler is a Trinitarian! Here is what I found on his sight…
Mark and Patti hold firmly to two great historical creeds of Orthodox Christianity, the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed. Mark and Patti are interdenominational in their ministry. They believe fully in the authority and inerrancy of the Bible and in the power and anointing of the Holy Spirit. Source…
Yet you are anti-trinitarian!
You say I should listen and learn, but it seems you are the one that needs to listen and learn. Don't you think that these guys who see the power of God through signs and wonders know more about who Jesus is than you?
I find it interesting that you fellowship in a Trinitarian Church with a Trinitarian Pastor and promote Trinitarian teachers!
Yet you are anti-trinitarian!
Isn't that being sort of true-ish?
WJ
I'm not following a man, Keith. God loves and can work through men even though they aren't perfect and have false beliefs. Thankfully so. Do you think that those who do not see the doctrine in the Bible can not have or hear the Holy Spirit? hmmmm?? God is not done renewing the minds of men. No man has arrived at complete, perfect understanding has he Keith?
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 15 2009,15:22) I'm not following a man, Keith. God loves and can work through men even though they aren't perfect and have false beliefs. Thankfully so. Do you think that those who do not see the doctrine in the Bible can not have or hear the Holy Spirit? hmmmm?? God is not done renewing the minds of men. No man has arrived at complete, perfect understanding has he Keith?
Hi KathiNo that is true. But am I supposed to take your statement as meaning that all these people you promote are yet to catch up to you and become Henotheistic by adopting your belief?
Its rather amazing that you think you have more understanding of who Jesus is than those who are mightly used of God.
Yes no man has arrived Kathi, and for sure perfect understanding has not come to anyone yet.
Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 15 2009,15:22) Do you think that those who do not see the doctrine in the Bible can not have or hear the Holy Spirit? hmmmm??
To be honest, I do not think that you and those who reject Jesus as YHWH serve the same Jesus.Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, (YHWH) but by the Holy Ghost. 1 Cor 12:3
Surely many say Jesus is “Lord”, but they do not know what that means for only by the Holy Spirit can they know!
WJ
WorshippingJesus said:
Quote They do not understand what “exact representation of his being” means! They think that some born or created thing can be the “exact representation of his (Gods) being”! Nothing can exactly represent an infinite God, but the infinite God himself!
Keith,
You are correct. And if you're Kathi Christ was formed in God's womb and born.WorshippingJesus:
Quote They still see Jesus in the days of his flesh, and are blinded to see that Jesus is infinite in Power, and Wisdom, and Glory!
Yeap! They read the statement, “My Father is greater than I” and then they close the book.thinker
Kathi said:
Quote I'm not following a man, Keith. God loves and can work through men even though they aren't perfect and have false beliefs. Thankfully so. Do you think that those who do not see the doctrine in the Bible can not have or hear the Holy Spirit? hmmmm?? God is not done renewing the minds of men. No man has arrived at complete, perfect understanding has he Keith? Keith replied:
Quote But am I supposed to take your statement as meaning that all these people you promote are yet to catch up to you and become Henotheistic by adopting your belief? Keith,
Don't forget that Kathi received a “whisper.” This means that the whole dog gone world of commentators has to catch up with her. It means that all Christians throughout all centuries until Kathi's “whisper” were left in the dark. So the scriptures were unintelligible to men until Kathi received her “whisper.” And if the scriptures were unintellligible then obedience was not possible for men cannot obey what God has deliberately hidden from them. Consequently, God cannot hold them accountable.If God cannot hold men accountable to that which He has intentionally hidden from them then what did He do with them until Kathi received the “whisper?” Now we on Heaven Net who have heard the new “whisper” truth we are accountable and God can damn us. But what of those in the ages before us and those who have never visited Heaven Net? Those who have never visited Heaven Net cannot be held accountable for they have not yet recieved the truth about Kathi's “whisper.”
The only way Kathi can give the whole world her “whisper” is to go out doing signs and wonders which would verify that her anti-trinitarian “whisper” is the truth. But this would conflict with the signs and wonders of those trinitarians who would reject her “whisper.” They would say, “Our signs and wonders are proof that WE have the truth and that this woman's 'whisper' is false.”
So the world would find itself in a dilemna. They would ask, “Whose claim and whose signs and wonders should we believe?” So Kathi would need to do a Moses thing by performing signs and wonders which would swallow up the signs and wonders of the trinitarians.
If Kathi can do this I will consider her proposal that the Son of God came out of God's womb. Until then I must reject her “whisper” and hold her to scripture.
thinker
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