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REV. IS ALL ABOUT jESUS!
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 14 2009,13:32) Hi Jodi,
I have yet to see the WORD being a PLAN.
One is expressed already and the other just an idea.
Excuse me Nick?You are unfamiliar with YHWH speaking His WORDS to the prophets, telling them about a coming Messiah who WOULD be of the seed of David and WOULD be to Him as a Son?
Your NOT aware that those WORDS included that the Messiah would be a savior to the whole word, bringing eternal life?
Your NOT aware that these WORDS of YHWH, of which were a PROMISE made unto Israel, came to LIFE when they became FLESH, being fulfilled in the birth of the infant boy named Jesus?
Hi Jodi,
No God never promised Jesus would save the whole world.
Grab on to the life available in Jesus while you live.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 14 2009,16:50) Hi Jodi,
No God never promised Jesus would save the whole world.
Grab on to the life available in Jesus while you live.
Nick,Why are you avoiding my point AND misquoting me?
Hi Jodi,
No quotes there.
God sent His son that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.[Jn3]Your choice now.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 14 2009,17:01) Hi Jodi,
No quotes there.
God sent His son that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.[Jn3]Your choice now.
You have changed the subject Nick.You said, “I have yet to see the WORD being a PLAN”
I just showed you how indeed the word of YHWH in the OT gave us a plan, known as the coming Messiah, this PLAN was taught to the prophets. This plan, or WORD of YHWH became FLESH when Jesus was born.
Do you disagree?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 14 2009,17:01) Hi Jodi,
No quotes there.
God sent His son that WHOSOEVER believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.[Jn3]Your choice now.
How does that make any sense given the fact that YHWH says that He has PURPOSELY blinded people NOW so that they would not believe NOW? How does that make sense given the fact that He says He will later have mercy on those that had been blinded, just as those that had previously been called, obtained mercy?Nick, it is NOT OUR choice to decide WHEN YHWH calls us, it is His.
and don't dare liken Our Almighty Father's calling as if it were good enough for you because your a great person to except Him, but others are simply just too bad that they will deny Him. Don't teach self righteousness while at the same time belittle YHWH =(
Hi Jodi,
Does scripture has to reach agreement with your sense of values to be true?
Ants rage against the shoe.Nick you literally just quotted that God did not promise jesus would save the world, and than you quote John 3;16. whats up with that?
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 14 2009,03:26) Can anyone say that Jesus is YHWH except by the Holy Spirit?
Hi CATrue!
WJ
Jodi Lee said:
Quote You can't make the glory that CHRIST, the human Messiah born of the seed of David, had with the Father before the world was, into WHATEVER YOU want it to be. You have to stick WITH what the scriptures tell us, which was that the CHRIST was in the beginning with the Father in the Fathers plan of how the Father would bring eternal salvation to man by a man. Jodi Lee,
Sorry to inform you that Jesus was NOT speaking about His foreordination in John 17:3. That He was foreordained to be the Messiah is not disputed. But He was speaking about the relationship He had with His Father PRIOR to the formation of the world. He referred to that relationship as the glory He “HAD TOGETHER WITH” the Father.It is you who is making the glory of Christ what YOU want it to be because your denial that He was pre-existent requires it. Your treatment of John 17:3 is special pleading.
thinker
Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 14 2009,19:26) Can anyone say that Jesus is YHWH except by the Holy Spirit?
Jesus is NOT YHWH, scripture tells us directly that YHWH said He would BE to the Messiah as a FATHER. Those that teach Jesus as YHWH are spewing VOMIT out of their mouths, the vomit of ANTI Christ.Those who claim Jesus as YHWH are under a spirit of DELUSION, they are most certainly not of the Holy Spirit.
2 Samuel 7:12 “When your days are fulfilled and you rest with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who will come from your body, and I will establish his kingdom. 13 He shall build a house for My name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever. 14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, Today I have begotten You”? And again: “I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son”?
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. 31 Him God has exalted to His right hand to be Prince and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
Ac 13:23 From this man's seed, according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior–Jesus—
Mt 2:15 and was there until the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”
Acts 3:20 and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, 21 whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. 22 For Moses truly said to the fathers, 'The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you.
1 Corinthians 15:20 And now, Christ hath risen out of the dead — the first-fruits of those sleeping he became, 21 for since through man is the death, also through man is a rising again of the dead,
Jesus is the firstborn of the dead, he is 100% HUMAN, raised immortal flesh and bone. Anyone who adds, distorting this truth is ANTI CHRIST. They have NO clue as to WHO Christ is and what he represents.
Lu 24:39 Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.”
1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time,
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Joh 20:17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet ascended to My Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.' ”
Jesus is NOT the ONE TRUE God, that is DIRECTLY declared in scripture to be the Father ALONE. Jesus is NOT his own Father, his Father is known as YHWH. YHWH spoke to the prophets in the OT telling them that ONE DAY he would raise up a human being to be His SON, and that He would through this MAN save the world.
Jodi Lee said:
Quote Jesus is NOT YHWH, scripture tells us directly that YHWH said He would BE to the Messiah as a FATHER. Those that teach Jesus as YHWH are spewing VOMIT out of their mouths, the vomit of ANTI Christ. Jodi Lee,
For your information God said “I will be a Father” to David's son Solomon (2 samuel 7:14). The author to the Hebrews applied it to Christ in the metaphorical sense. God was not Christ's literal father and Christ was not God's literal son. God called Himself “I Am” and also called Himself “the King of Israel” (Is. 44:6). Jesus said “I Am” and rode into Jerusalem as the King of Israel.
It is amazing how anti-trinitarians cry that Israel had one God but two Kings. But God was their ONLY King. Jesus was their King. Therefore, Jesus was God.
Premise 1: God was Israel's only King
Premise 2: Jesus was Israel's King
Conclusion: Jesus was GodNo degree in rocket science is needed Sis!
thinker
Jodi………It is amazing how the deluded mind works to justify false teachings of the TRINITY, You have posted it right, let those who have ears to hear and eyes to see absorb these truths the rest are simply blinded and Don't even Know what to believe because there teachings are false. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 15 2009,04:56) Jodi………It is amazing how the deluded mind works to justify false teachings of the TRINITY, You have posted it right, let those who have ears to hear and eyes to see absorb these truths the rest are simply blinded and Don't even Know what to believe because there teachings are false. IMO peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene
Gene,
Did Israel have two Kings or one?thinker
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,02:49) Jodi Lee said: Quote You can't make the glory that CHRIST, the human Messiah born of the seed of David, had with the Father before the world was, into WHATEVER YOU want it to be. You have to stick WITH what the scriptures tell us, which was that the CHRIST was in the beginning with the Father in the Fathers plan of how the Father would bring eternal salvation to man by a man. Jodi Lee,
Sorry to inform you that Jesus was NOT speaking about His foreordination in John 17:3. That He was foreordained to be the Messiah is not disputed. But He was speaking about the relationship He had with His Father PRIOR to the formation of the world. He referred to that relationship as the glory He “HAD TOGETHER WITH” the Father.It is you who is making the glory of Christ what YOU want it to be because your denial that He was pre-existent requires it. Your treatment of John 17:3 is special pleading.
thinker
To all,What does scripture SHOW as to the GLORY Jesus received from his Father in John 17:3 to be?
John 17:1 Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, 2 as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
First here we see that Jesus is NOT THE ONLY TRUE God or PART of the ONLY TRUE God. Jesus was sent and raised from the dead BY the ONLY TRUE God. The Thinker is too blind to see the simple truth that is in front of his face. In raising Jesus from the dead, people should KNOW who the ONLY TRUE God is, the Father, known as YHWH, and as YHWH gave life to Jesus, we know that He will do the same for us.
4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Now TT would like us to believe that the glory Jesus had in the beginning was the glory of being the Eternal GOD. However scripture shows, that upon the resurrection of Jesus, he was changed into an immortal MAN made out of flesh and bones. Scripture shows that Jesus is NOT the One True God, but our Mediator to the One True God. Jesus AFTER he rose is still called the SERVANT to the One True God. Scripture shows that Jesus is NOT the One true God but the HUMAN SON of the One True God. Scripture shows that genetically after Jesus was raised from the dead, he is still a descendant of David. Scripture tells us that after Jesus rose he called our God his God and our Father his Father.
2 Timothy1:8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God, 9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began, 10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
Ro 8:11But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
Ephesians 1:15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Col 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Re 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the Lord Shall be saved.' 22 “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know—23 Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; 24 whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it. 25 For David says concerning Him: 'I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken. 26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad; Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope. 27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades, Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption. 28 You have made known to me the ways of life; You will make me full of joy in Your presence.' 29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30 Therefore, being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that of the fruit of his body, according to the flesh, He would raise up the Christ to sit on his throne, 31 he, foreseeing this, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that His soul was not left in Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption. 32 This Jesus God has raised up, of which we are all witnesses. 33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear.
Acts 13:29 Now when they had fulfilled all that was written concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 But God raised Him from the dead. 31 He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 And we declare to you glad tidings–that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 God has fulfilled this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 And that He raised Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give you the sure mercies of David.'35 Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 “For David, after he
had served his own generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw corruption; 37 but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 Therefore let it be known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of sins;1 Peter 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. 4 I have glorified You on the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Unless you are BLIND, the truth should be easily seen. The GLORY that is in CHRIST, the MAN who shed his blood for us dying on the cross, was the glory of a MAN being raised from the dead and receiving eternal life. A MAN was given IMMORTALITY and became the WAY for ALL to receive IMMORTALITY. This is the Glory of Jesus, this is the glory that the CHRIST had in the beginning with YHWH, eternal salvation for MAN.
Quote (thethinker @ Sep. 15 2009,04:23) Jodi Lee said: Quote Jesus is NOT YHWH, scripture tells us directly that YHWH said He would BE to the Messiah as a FATHER. Those that teach Jesus as YHWH are spewing VOMIT out of their mouths, the vomit of ANTI Christ. Jodi Lee,
For your information God said “I will be a Father” to David's son Solomon (2 samuel 7:14). The author to the Hebrews applied it to Christ in the metaphorical sense. God was not Christ's literal father and Christ was not God's literal son. God called Himself “I Am” and also called Himself “the King of Israel” (Is. 44:6). Jesus said “I Am” and rode into Jerusalem as the King of Israel.
It is amazing how anti-trinitarians cry that Israel had one God but two Kings. But God was their ONLY King. Jesus was their King. Therefore, Jesus was God.
Premise 1: God was Israel's only King
Premise 2: Jesus was Israel's King
Conclusion: Jesus was GodNo degree in rocket science is needed Sis!
thinker
Hi TT,Only ONE KING?
The Father is King above ALL,
Luke 11:1 Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.” 2 So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.
The Father has appointed Jesus to be a king,
Mt 27:11 Now Jesus stood before the governor. And the governor asked Him, saying, “Are You the King of the Jews?” So Jesus said to him, “It is as you say.”
John 18:36 Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here.” 37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?” Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
And also the Saints will be kings,
Revelation 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near. 4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Luke 22:27 For who is greater, he who sits at the table, or he who serves? Is it not he who sits at the table? Yet I am among you as the One who serves. 28 But you are those who have continued with Me in My trials. 29 And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, 30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
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