- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (t8 @ Oct. 08 2009,02:33) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 08 2009,05:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 07 2009,13:15) Hi WJ,
No, lets be honest.You have searched for verses that might offer some possible support for false catholic dogmas.
When will you truly serve God and His son and not falsehood?
NHOh so you are calling me a liar now? You are a sad excuse for a moderator!
WJ
Hi WJ.I think there is a difference between being deceived and telling lies. I am not making a judgement as to which one, but if you take either stance 'Trinity' or 'One God the Father', at least one of you is deceived and that someone is must also be lying by reason of the fact that both of you teach what you believe.
Without taking anything into consideration, either one has a 50% chance of being the one teaching lies. That is if one is also right.
When you add in scripture, the pendulum starts to swing toward one view. You know which one I say it is.
“For us there is one God the Father”.
t8Thanks!
I realize that you take his side. He is your moderator. But you should consider that infering that someone is lying unless he can actually prove he is, is below what a moderator should be IMO. He should be more diplomatic and point to scriptures letting them speak.
Being decieved is another story isnt it? Beig decieved is a two edged sword and can go either way as you have pointed out.
Frankly, it is your opinion that “One God the Father” and “The Father, Son and Holy Spirit being One God” are at odds with each other. It is your opinion that scriptures lean your way.
You have gotten more than one complaint about this guy and his continued harrasement of members here.
God knows the heart and not Nick, you or anyone else here, and as far as teaching the truth, we believe we have the truth just as you do!
WJ
T8……..I agree in part what WJ said , Nick does make personal Judgments about what a person says and at times produces no scripture to back it up. I have quoted Many, many times Where Jesus said the words He Spoke (ARE) Spirit and LIFE, and showed him that a (WORD) is the expression of INTELLECT, that is What a word is. BUT he disagrees and never produce any Scripture that show that this is wrong. So every time I use the word SPIRIT with (INTELLECT) attached to it he has some snide remark.
Don't get me wrong I respect Nick and His Job Here I would not want to do it, But i just wish he would try to explain why he believes what is wrong with what someone say, instead of just making some snide or insulting remark. Not that he does this all the time i am not saying that. I Know at times i can be hard headed also. I do respect you and Nick, just don't agree with everything you and Nick (ALWAYS) Say.
peace and love to you and Nick both………………………..gene
Here is a good explanation from gotquestions.org Trinitarianism is the teaching that God is triune, that He has revealed Himself in three co-equal and co-eternal Persons. For a detailed biblical presentation of the Trinity, please see our article on what the Bible teaches about the Trinity. The purpose of this article is to discuss the importance of Trinitarianism in regard to salvation and the Christian life.
We are often asked the question, “Do I have to believe in the Trinity to be saved?” The answer is yes and no. Does a person have to fully understand and agree with every aspect of Trinitarianism to be saved? No. Are there some aspects of Trinitarianism that play key roles in salvation? Yes. For example, the deity of Christ is crucially important to the doctrine of salvation. If Jesus were not God, His death could not have paid the infinite penalty of sin. Only God is infinite—He had no beginning, and He has no end. All other creatures, including angels, are finite; they were created at some point. Only the death of an infinite Being could atone for the sin of mankind throughout eternity. If Jesus were not God, He could not be the Savior, the Messiah, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29). An unbiblical view of Jesus' divine nature results in an errant view of salvation. Every “Christian” cult that denies the true deity of Christ also teaches that we must add our own works to Christ's death in order to be saved. The true and full deity of Christ, an aspect of Trinitarianism, refutes this concept.
At the same time, we recognize that there are some genuine believers in Christ who do not hold to full Trinitarianism. While we reject modalism, we do not deny that a person can be saved while holding that God is not three Persons, but rather simply revealed Himself in three “modes.” The Trinity is a mystery, which no finite human being can fully, or perfectly, understand. For salvation to be received, God requires us to trust in Jesus Christ, God incarnate, as the Savior. For salvation to be received, God does not require complete adherence to every precept of sound biblical theology. No, full understanding and agreement with all aspects of Trinitarianism is not required for salvation.
We strongly hold that Trinitarianism is a biblically-based doctrine. We dogmatically proclaim that understanding and believing in biblical Trinitarianism is crucially important to understanding God, salvation, and the ongoing work of God in the lives of believers. At the same time, there have been godly men, genuine followers of Christ, who have had some disagreements with aspects of Trinitarianism. It is important to remember that we are not saved by having perfect doctrine. We are saved by trusting in our perfect Savior (John 3:16). Do we have to believe in some aspects of Trinitarianism to be saved? Yes. Do we have to fully agree with all areas of Trinitarianism to be saved? No.
I think some people need to read a commentary bible that explains scripture in detail. You can get them at any Bible book store. I am looking at my pastors right now. It is called “The Complete Bible Commentary”- contributions from: Dobson, Feinberg,Hindson, Kroll, Wilmington and more. They explain every scripture in detail. In John 1;1 it says:IN THE BEGINNING. This opening statement is a repetition of the opening statement of the bible.(Gen 1:1) When time began, the word was already in existence. WAS THE WORD.This unique name for Christ (Gr logos) occurs only four times in the New Testament as a name.(1;1 14, 1 John 1;1 Rev.19:13 and is utilized only by John the apostle. Since words reveal the thoughts of one person to another, Christ as the Eternal word is a revelation as God to man. AND THE WORD WAS WITH GOD. The words translated WITH GOD (Gr pros ton theon) could be rendered “face to face with God” Two important thoughts emerge from this statement. first the word is a diistinct person. Second, the word was enjoying communication and fellowship with another distinct person, God the father. AND THE WORD WAS GOD. Lest the reader assume that the Word as a distinct person is less than God, John concludes the verse with an emphatic statement that the Word was completely GOD. To lend the greatest possible emphasis to the importance of this statement, it literally reads “and God was the Word. The subject and predicate are reversed to underline the deity of the Word.THE SAME WAS IN THE BEGINNING WITH GOD this verse simply summarizes the deep theological truths revealed in the first verse.(3) ALL THINGS WERE MADE BY HIM; AND WITHOUT HIM WAS NOT ANY THING MADE THAT WAS MADE. This verse establishes Christ as the subject of creation and not the object of creation. He was the creator, not the created. One scholar translates the latter part of this verse as follows: 'and apart from him not a single thing that exits came into being” (William Hendriksen, The Gospel of St. John.p.71)
Quote (Gene @ Oct. 09 2009,03:35) T8……..I agree in part what WJ said , Nick does make personal Judgments about what a person says and at times produces no scripture to back it up. I have quoted Many, many times Where Jesus said the words He Spoke (ARE) Spirit and LIFE, and showed him that a (WORD) is the expression of INTELLECT, that is What a word is. BUT he disagrees and never produce any Scripture that show that this is wrong. So every time I use the word SPIRIT with (INTELLECT) attached to it he has some snide remark. Don't get me wrong I respect Nick and His Job Here I would not want to do it, But i just wish he would try to explain why he believes what is wrong with what someone say, instead of just making some snide or insulting remark. Not that he does this all the time i am not saying that. I Know at times i can be hard headed also. I do respect you and Nick, just don't agree with everything you and Nick (ALWAYS) Say.
peace and love to you and Nick both………………………..gene
We are in agreement on this one Gene. I have been on other discussion boards and have never seen a moderator like Nick. Part of the peoblem is Nick does not possess enough knowledge to defend what he believes so all he has is personal attacks.He lacks humility. When I showed him that the “man is a worm” statement in Job was spoken by a man who was not an oracle of God he just got stubborn about it. He should have said, “I will look into this” or just keep his mouth shut. Instead he acted very childish and provocative about it.
Certainly there must be another more qualified in Nick's region that t8 can appoint as moderator.
thinker
Hi TT,
You may boast of your knowledge but is such boasting wise?
You seem to have great problems with simple things like WHO is God?This is from Heavenet– A very good explanation! I would just like to know how you can deny this? Let me first thank those who run this site for allowing me the opportunity to make this post. I will be addressing the question of Jesus Christ's deity. This issue is not new, nor are the arguments surrounding it. However, one side is true, and one side is false. Either Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man, or he was only fully man. Those who believe that scripture is truly God's word must also believe that there are no contradictions in scripture. Any such contradiction would prove error in God's word, thus error in God. Such error is impossible; therefore any inerrancy found in scripture must be as a result from human error in interpretation. The fact that scripture is without contradictions will prove to be the biggest factor in proving which belief is true and which is false.
I have studied the deity of Christ from both a Trinitarian perspective as well as a non-Trinitarian perspective and have found that there is overwhelming evidence that scripture very clearly states that Jesus Christ is both fully God and fully human. There are countless ways in which to approach proving this issue with scripture, however to start off, I will begin with some basics. If needs be, I will continue the scriptural proof in more detail in another post so to keep this one as short as possible. I will begin with three contradictions that arise if Jesus Christ is NOT God.
1) Hebrews 1:10 “YOU, LORD, IN THE BEGINNING LAID THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH, AND THE HEAVENS ARE THE WORKS OF YOUR HANDS;
—According to verse 8, this is talking about the Son of God, not the Father. This verse tells us that Jesus Christ was not only pre-existent to his humanity on earth, but that He existed in the beginning even before creation and that by His hands He created the heavens and the earth. According to Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” This verse tells us that the only thing in existence in the beginning was God, and that God created the heavens and the earth. According to Genesis 1:1 we find that God was the only one in the beginning that that He created the heavens and the earth. According to Hebrews 1:10 we find that Jesus Christ was in the beginning and created the heavens and the earth. If Jesus Christ is not God, then these two verses contradict each other. The only way Hebrews 1:10 is true is if Jesus Christ is in fact God.
2) Exodus 34:14, –for you shall not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God— According to this verse, God is the only person who is to be worshiped. Jesus Christ is worshiped throughout the New Testament not only by humans (Matthew 2:2, Mark 5:6, Luke 24:52, John 9:38, etc.) but also by the angels (Hebrews 1:6). If Jesus Christ is not God, then there is a major contradiction in scripture. If Christ is not God then all the angels are guilty of idolatry as well as humans. More severely, if Christ is not God, then Jesus Christ himself is guilty of sin. If Christ is not God, then He sinned every time He accepted and encouraged those who worshiped Him. Also, in his confrontation with Satan in the desert, Jesus Christ commands Satan to “Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.” (Matthew 4:10). We also know that according to Philippians 2:10 “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;” This means that all will fall subject to, worship, give homage, and praise Jesus Christ, be it voluntary or involuntary. This includes Satan himself. If Jesus Christ is not God, then He is lying in his instruction to Satan. Jesus tells Satan to worship ONLY God, and then later Satan is found worshiping Jesus.
3) Finally, according to Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.” The word LORD in this verse is the Hebrew word YAHWEH, which means God. God is our only savior, and only God is able to forgive our sins and give us salvation. However, Jesus Christ not only forgave sins (Matthew 9:6) be He also is our savior (Titus 1:4, 2 Peter 1:11, etc.). If Jesus Christ is not God, then again there is contradiction in scripture. Furthermore, if Jesus Christ is not God, then we have no savior, and thus no salvation.
As established in Hebrews 1:10, the fact that Jesus Christ preexisted to his time on earth proves that He is in fact God. When scripture tells us that Christ “came in the flesh” it establishes that Christ has eternally existed and affirms that He is fully God. That is why 2 John 1:7 is so important: “For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” Those who do not acknowledge that Jesus Christ is fully God are false and are not from God. In fact, confessing that Jesus is God is how we test if someone is from God or from the adversary: 1 John 4:2-3 “By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.”
I hope this helps anyone lost in falseness or confused about the truth. I will continue to pray for those who are lost that God opens their hearts so that they will know the truth of God and worship in that truth and in spirit.Hi Kat,
If bowing down to Jesus the kind of worship Almighty God should expect from men?
True worshipers worship in spirit and truth.Where is Satan shown to be worshiping the Son of God?
Satan invited Jesus to worship him that he might gain earthly advantages.
Jesus reminds him of the commandments given to men that applied to himself as a man.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,04:11) Hi TT,
You may boast of your knowledge but is such boasting wise?
You seem to have great problems with simple things like WHO is God?
And you have problems attributing to God the words that were spoken by a man who was not His oracle (Bildad). So what else do you put in God's mouth? The words of Arius for starters. Bildad and Arius were both Gnostics.This makes you a Bildarian.
thinker
Hi TT,
Teaching from theory WHAT you think God is does not draw us any closer to WHO He is and into His Love.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,05:52) Hi TT,
Teaching from theory WHAT you think God is does not draw us any closer to WHO He is and into His Love.
That goes both ways Nick. God did not say I am a “worm.”thinker
Hi TT,
So why not find WHO God is.
That is what Jesus came to teach us.
Instead men got caught up in all sorts of foolishness about WHAT God is.Hi TT,
For all their avid devotion to the defense of their trinity god theory there is no consistency when it comes to prayer and worship.
I have yet to see a prayer to this trinity god but instead prayers are offered to the PERSONS who are not meant to be gods are they?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,06:03) Hi TT,
So why not find WHO God is.
That is what Jesus came to teach us.
Instead men got caught up in all sorts of foolishness about WHAT God is.
You have already told me who God is Nick. God is a bad person because He makes me feel bad. You said that God thinks I am a “worm.” That makes me feel bad so I don't want to know Him if that is what He thinks of me.I hope you're not a psychotherapist. People would get up from your couch feeling worse about themselves then when they first came to see you.
If you think that God looks upon His image as a “worm” then you have some serious issues. You need to disown Bildad.
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 09 2009,06:09) Hi TT,
For all their avid devotion to the defense of their trinity god theory there is no consistency when it comes to prayer and worship.
I have yet to see a prayer to this trinity god but instead prayers are offered to the PERSONS who are not meant to be gods are they?
Nick,
How would you know about the prayers of trinitarians when you don't attend church? You can't even know how your fellow Arians pray.thinker
Hi TT,
I know Jb25 makes you choke but take your time and let scripture teach you.
Such indigestion is of us not scripture.Jesus is a man but you would make him your god?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
