The messenger of jehovah was jehovah

[Worshipping Jesus]

Kathi

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,03:19)

The trinitarians have differing theories that they believe, well fine, but it should not be made to be something that divides believers in Christ who hold to the clear truths and also have developed other theories which can be shown in scripture.

Well then does that mean that you will not post your theory of a begotten God, born out of an aesexual God?

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 07 2009,02:58)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,19:19) quote Kathi Also, that Thinker believes that the “eternal word” (which is an oxymoron btw since a word has an origin as does a son) is another term that is not found in the Bible) became the Son at some point and time…another idea not clearly taught in the Bible.  We see that the word in the beginning became flesh but we see nowhere in the Bible any mention of anyone or anything “becoming” an only begotten son to the Father.  The Son IS the only begotten Son of the Father, He didn't “become” one as if He was something else beforehand.  The word became flesh, not an only begotten son. IMO lightenup ……> i agree with this completely. The word which was GOD came to be (became) came to be in Jesus the uniquely born son of GOD. No preexistence Son, but a son brought forth at His berth to Mary and was the root and offspring of King David. Applying Preexistence to Jesus is just another false TRINITARIAN teaching. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………….gene

Gene,
You do not agree with Kathi completely. She believes the Word is personal. You concoct some impersonal intellect. Even your anti-trinitarian fellows here can't make any sense of your goo goo ga ga.

thinker

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 06 2009,15:40)

Hi WJ, So you are able to add the final touches to scripture so that you can say the Son is his own Father?

NH

Again, misrepresentation is bearing false witness. You know that Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus is his own Father.

You know this but it doesn't seem to matter to you. Just spout off these false accusations and then pretend like you are doing God service!

WJ

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You believe he is GOD THE SON, part of a trinity god with his Father God.
That makes the Son of God his own father.

[KangarooJack]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 07 2009,07:51)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 06 2009,15:40) Hi WJ, So you are able to add the final touches to scripture so that you can say the Son is his own Father? NH Again, misrepresentation is bearing false witness. You know that Trinitarians do not believe that Jesus is his own Father. You know this but it doesn't seem to matter to you. Just spout off these false accusations and then pretend like you are doing God service! WJ

Nick knew also that I was not adding angels to the godhead. But he lied anyway. That's how he honors his one true God. The scripture says not to bear false witness. Even if it is against someone you think is a heretic.

thinker

[GeneBalthrop]

Thinker………………I do agree with Kathi in what she posted, Maybe your intellect is not personal to you,  but mine and the rest of the world their intellect is personal them. Seems your the one going goo goo ga ga here no one else is. But then that is to be expected from a deluded TRINITARIAN mind right?

gene

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2009,15:45)

Kathi Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,03:19) The trinitarians have differing theories that they believe, well fine, but it should not be made to be something that divides believers in Christ who hold to the clear truths and also have developed other theories which can be shown in scripture. Well then does that mean that you will not post your theory of a begotten God, born out of an aesexual God? WJ

Keith,
Certainly not! Posting something as a theory is fine. Demanding that a theory is the only way is what is wrong. The only thing that we can insist on is the solid Biblical truths which are plainly taught by Jesus which does not include the trinity doctrine because of all the non-Biblical language in it. That places that doctrine in the theory category. IMO.

This site is great to provide different points of views to consider. The name calling and derogatory remarks because someone does not agree with someone's theory is completely Pharisee like…also IMO.

So, my theory is that the Son of God is the actual only son from the Most High God also referred to as the Only Begotten God, begotten, not created. He had a beginning before creation. He is not equally the Most High God as His Father is. How He was begotten we are not specifically told but surely the Father is capable of producing His own offspring. This Holy Spirit of God is a part of the Father which can extend from Him without separating from Him and fills the Son and through the Son can fill believers. Understanding the particulars of the Godhead is not what saves us…it is the existence of the love of God in our hearts that makes us known by the Son. He is the only way to the Father.

Kathi

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
I believe the begettal of the Son refers to the rebirth at the Jordan, the time when God declared him to be His Son. This is how we too can follow him and become sons of God and his brothers and sisters.

[Lightenup]

Hi Nick,
I know you and I see the Son's Jordan experience differently and that is totally fine. I do not see a need for Jesus to be born again because He was never separated from the Father like the rest of us. I believe that He was baptized to establish and validate the ordinance, not as an act of obedience to publicly demonstrate the cleansing of sins by forgiveness which the believers purpose for being baptized is. He did not need forgiveness…He did not sin.
LU

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
So if he was always one with the Father[unusual for sons] why was he needing to be anointed with the Holy Spirit and power?[Acts 10.38]

[Lightenup]

Nick,
Because He took on the limits of man.

BTW, He was an unusual Son!
LU

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
He was man and not a superman.

Without God being with him keeping him from sin and without the anointing of the Spirit empowering and giving him insight we would never have heard of him.Acts10.38

[Worshipping Jesus]

Kathi

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,17:46)

[This site is great to provide different points of views to consider.  The name calling and derogatory remarks because someone does not agree with someone's theory is completely Pharisee like…also IMO.

You bring up a good point. I try to stay away from the name calling, but it seems that so many here enjoy calling Trinitarians “anti-christ” and “daughers of the whore”, and “man of sin” and yadayadayada!

But there was a place for name calling in scripture that is not Pharasaicle like when Jesus himself called them “vipers” “wolves” and “whited seplechurs” and “children of the devil”!

I personally am at the place in my life where I care less what they call me and I will also call them out when I think their doctine is anti-christ also!

I also think the word “love” is thrown around here a lot by those who show no fruit of love at all! But God is the judge of the secrets of mens hearts and knows them that are his!

WJ

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Gene @ Oct. 07 2009,08:23)

Thinker………………I do agree with Kathi in what she posted, Maybe your intellect is not personal to you,  but mine and the rest of the world their intellect is personal them. Seems your the one going goo goo ga ga here no one else is. But then that is to be expected from a deluded TRINITARIAN mind right? gene

Gene,
You are dishonest. I have tried to convince you in past posts that the Word is personal and you have denied it. Now you flip flop.

Be honest.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 07 2009,09:50)

Hi LU, I believe the begettal of the Son refers to the rebirth at the Jordan, the time when God declared him to be His Son. This is how we too can follow him and become sons of God and his brothers and sisters.

The book of Hebrews is clear that the begettal of the Son was took place at His exaltation (chapters 1 & 5; Acts 13). I will take apostolic explanation over your beliefs Nick.

thinker

[KangarooJack]

WorshippingJesus said;

Quote

I also think the word “love” is thrown around here a lot by those who show no fruit of love at all! But God is the judge of the secrets of mens hearts and knows them that are his!

Keith,
Right on! I have had enough of Gene's “deluded trinitarian mind” talk. I don't see anti-trinitarians preaching the gospel and giving men the waters of salvation.

thinker

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
There is no salvation in a trinity god.
Jesus is the way to the Father God.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,17:46)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2009,15:45) Kathi Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,03:19) The trinitarians have differing theories that they believe, well fine, but it should not be made to be something that divides believers in Christ who hold to the clear truths and also have developed other theories which can be shown in scripture. Well then does that mean that you will not post your theory of a begotten God, born out of an aesexual God? WJ Keith, Certainly not!  Posting something as a theory is fine.  Demanding that a theory is the only way is what is wrong.  The only thing that we can insist on is the solid Biblical truths which are plainly taught by Jesus which does not include the trinity doctrine because of all the non-Biblical language in it.  That places that doctrine in the theory category. IMO. This site is great to provide different points of views to consider.  The name calling and derogatory remarks because someone does not agree with someone's theory is completely Pharisee like…also IMO. So, my theory is that the Son of God is the actual only son from the Most High God also referred to as the Only Begotten God, begotten, not created.  He had a beginning before creation.  He is not equally the Most High God as His Father is.  How He was begotten we are not specifically told but surely the Father is capable of producing His own offspring.  This Holy Spirit of God is a part of the Father which can extend from Him without separating from Him and fills the Son and through the Son can fill believers. Understanding the particulars of the Godhead is not what saves us…it is the existence of the love of God in our hearts that makes us known by the Son.  He is the only way to the Father. Kathi

Kathi

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,17:46)

So, my theory is that the Son of God is the actual only son from the Most High God also referred to as the Only Begotten God, begotten, not created.

Thanks for admitting that this is your theory!

Just so you know, the Trinity is an established doctrine by the many Forefathers and most Christian Churches today.

So the Trinitarian view is not a theory!

The One thing that all Trinitarians have in common is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are “One God” who shares the same essence! This means that your view like the Arians according to the Christian church is heresy!

WJ

[GeneBalthrop]

Thinker……..Post where i said words are not personal. Misrepresenting people and scripture seems to be what you do most. Show us ALL where i said words we speak are not personal , would like very much to see that. Deluded Trinitarian mind set seems to foster that type of talk. If we say something we need to be able to back it up, not just mouth it off. IMO

gene

[Lightenup]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2009,19:37)

Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,17:46) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 06 2009,15:45) Kathi Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,03:19) The trinitarians have differing theories that they believe, well fine, but it should not be made to be something that divides believers in Christ who hold to the clear truths and also have developed other theories which can be shown in scripture. Well then does that mean that you will not post your theory of a begotten God, born out of an aesexual God? WJ Keith, Certainly not!  Posting something as a theory is fine.  Demanding that a theory is the only way is what is wrong.  The only thing that we can insist on is the solid Biblical truths which are plainly taught by Jesus which does not include the trinity doctrine because of all the non-Biblical language in it.  That places that doctrine in the theory category. IMO. This site is great to provide different points of views to consider.  The name calling and derogatory remarks because someone does not agree with someone's theory is completely Pharisee like…also IMO. So, my theory is that the Son of God is the actual only son from the Most High God also referred to as the Only Begotten God, begotten, not created.  He had a beginning before creation.  He is not equally the Most High God as His Father is.  How He was begotten we are not specifically told but surely the Father is capable of producing His own offspring.  This Holy Spirit of God is a part of the Father which can extend from Him without separating from Him and fills the Son and through the Son can fill believers. Understanding the particulars of the Godhead is not what saves us…it is the existence of the love of God in our hearts that makes us known by the Son.  He is the only way to the Father. Kathi Kathi Quote (Lightenup @ Oct. 06 2009,17:46) So, my theory is that the Son of God is the actual only son from the Most High God also referred to as the Only Begotten God, begotten, not created. Thanks for admitting that this is your theory! Just so you know, the Trinity is an established doctrine by the many Forefathers and most Christian Churches today. So the Trinitarian view is not a theory! The One thing that all Trinitarians have in common is that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are “One God” who shares the same essence! This means that your view like the Arians according to the Christian church is heresy! WJ

Keith,
I have always said that my understanding was my “theory” so your remark was uncalled for.

Just so you know, tradition doesn't establish some theory as truth…sorry, even if many follow it. Consider the tradition of “Good Friday” for example. There is a vast amount of differing explanations of the trinity doctrine by it's followers but they do seem to have one thing in common, yes ONE thing. I wonder why though. If the Christian church declares me a heretic, well, they will have to answer for that one day. That has probably turned people away from the church instead of attracting people, just look around here.

Also, Jesus called people a “brood of vipers,” etc. but did the disciples? When someone uses the justification of calling someone derogatory names because of Jesus doing that, they appear like they think they are without sin also. Jesus was the only one without sin and can call out the vipers and that's fine. No one else here is without sin.

The ONE thing that you say the trinitarians have in common is not a clear verse in scriptures anywhere so if they get that by piecing verses together and forcing them into submission under their understanding it must be at the very most a theory that has been adopted as a tradition. Nothing more than something to consider like many other theories. Some will agree and others will show good reasons to disagree.

I would like to see more attitudes on here that can admit how other's perspective has value and may be possible. There seems to be too much of those who see a valid point yet flat out discredit it because of a lack of humility or something. Whatever, humility certainly does not abound on here but humility is certainly highly regarded by the Lord. So why doesn't humility rule on a “Christian” message board? I often wonder why. People can argue so meticulously about how Jesus is this or that but discredit themselves with their seemingly lack of humility and bring shame to the cause of Christ. This attitude does not advance Christ.

My opinion,
Kathi

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