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Kajto………Look i am not saying there are not sincere Pastors out there who sincerely believe in what they preach and are love and caring for there Flock, I believe WJ to be a loving and caring Pastor, So i do agree with you not every Pastor is just using People for personal gain. I know the love and Joy of fellowship among People living as brothers and Sisters sharing there lives with each other. That is all Well and Good for a social outlet and encouragement in life. But with that said if we are going to Take the Scriptures and study them , that takes on a personal and individual responsibility, and to just go to church and think you are going to be taught the true words of God that is really a gullible position to take.
That is obvious with all the thousands of different churches with thousands of different teachings. it would be at best a crap shoot to try to find a (TRUE) Church. No I have found in my life that GOD'S Spirit is very able to teach Me the truth and guid my thinking and It both ACCUSES ME WHEN I AM WRONG AND DEFENDS ME WHEN I AM RIGHT. i LOVE THAT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP i have with the FATHER and Jesus, and the true Saints.
I will never again let anyone or anything come between that. I am not against Churches at all. Its not about Churches it all about the TRUTH, and if you are in one that is not teaching the truth my advice is to don't by what they are teaching, i am not telling you not to love the people in it though. When I was in the WWCOG i meant many wonderful people, which i would have never met if I was not a member of that Church. But if you love the truth more and you are supporting a false teaching organization then you are a partaker of there Evil because you are helping there lies and will be held accountable for it. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Sep. 26 2009,10:56) Thinker ………..Why should He be an Heir if He created it all, it would be his anyway. Does it not say God does (ALL) things after the council of HIS (OWN) WILL, But Jesus said He came (NOT) to do HIS WILL But the WILL of HIM who SENT HIM. MY another trinitarian dilemma but i am sure you and WJ and CA have some (MYSTERY RELIGION) explanation for this though. Face it thinker nothing you people produce make any sense at all. DUMP the TRINITY GARBAGE THINKER. gene
Gene,
You are dodging my question. How can the Father forcefully take from Christ that which is rightfully His by inheritance? We are Christ's inheritance. We are the kingdom He has inherited. The Father CANNOT force Him to give the kingdom back. Christ yields the kingdom of His own free will.Give up your ARIAN GARBAGE.
thinker
G,
But you teach yoiur own opinions and use them to try to grasp scripture.
So why do you offer these opinions as if they are greater than scripture?
Such gnosticism is the same problem that led to the trinity folly you deride.Gene said:
Quote Thinker ………..Why should He be an Heir if He created it all, it would be his anyway. Does it not say God does (ALL) things after the council of HIS (OWN) WILL, But Jesus said He came (NOT) to do HIS WILL But the WILL of HIM who SENT HIM. MY another trinitarian dilemma but i am sure you and WJ and CA have some (MYSTERY RELIGION) explanation for this though. Face it thinker nothing you people produce make any sense at all. DUMP the TRINITY GARBAGE THINKER. gene
Gene,
Paul said about Christ, “Though He was rich, yet He became poor for your sakes that you might become rich through His poverty.” No “dilemna” Gene. He was never rich in this world. So He must have been rich in His pre-existance.Again, no dilemna for me Gene. The dilemna is yours.
thinker
thinker……..Jesus was rich in his inheritance as the son of GOD, The richness was not About Material wealth as you are trying to make it out to be. We who have GOD'S spirit are also rich in Inheritance . Trying to make it appear as a past situation is another TRINITARIAN false teaching. When are you going to dump that garbage thinker.
gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 02 2009,09:51) G,
But you teach yoiur own opinions and use them to try to grasp scripture.
So why do you offer these opinions as if they are greater than scripture?
Such gnosticism is the same problem that led to the trinity folly you deride.
Nick……You say that i give my opinions and i do , but i believe i do it with plenty of Scripture support, if you find fault with what i have posted then as i said before your are under obligation to post your proof. I certinally am not saying you are obligately to believe what i say , if there are not scripture back up to what i say then by all means do not believe it. I post what i believe is accurate, but i am human and can be mistaken about things as you or anyone else can here. But i do try to be Scripturally accurate though. IMOpeace and love……………….gene
G,
They remain your opinions despite what imagined support you have found for them.
Find teachings written or put them aside.Nick…..As i told you before anyone can be a parrot , but a parrot has no understanding of what He or She is parroting. It's the ability to open the understand of Scripture is what counts not the parroting of them. The eunuch needed some one to give understanding of what was written. Just reading it was not enough, Even Jesus opened up scripture meanings to His servants. The Spirit of GOD gives us a deeper understanding it teaches us the deep things from scriptures. You seem to be content with just the shallow things, and try to prevent Growth in others. If what is said is contary to what is written that is when you should disagree with it, but not just because you fail to understand what is being said, that is just you lack of understanding that is talking and nothing else, or you would post the contrary views of what has been said. Not trying to be disrespectful to you Nick. IMO
peace and love……………gene
Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 02 2009,13:28) Gene,
Paul said about Christ, “Though He was rich, yet He became poor for your sakes that you might become rich through His poverty.” No “dilemna” Gene. He was never rich in this world. So He must have been rich in His pre-existance.Again, no dilemna for me Gene. The dilemna is yours.
thinker
I think this is an excellent point, if Yeshua did not preexist then when during His earthly life was He rich and then become poor? Search the gospels and you will not find it. Only if he pre-existed His birth in the form of God, emptied Himself and became a man (as described in Phil 2:5-8) do these statements make any sense at all.Yes I agree too.
That is another good text pointing to the fact that his claim “before Abraham, I am”, means that he was saying “before Abraham, I existed”.
I think, therefore I am.
To all who do not believe that Christ didn't exist before Abraham, do you think that “before Abraham, I am” means before Abraham, I didn't exist”?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 03 2009,17:58) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 02 2009,13:28) Gene,
Paul said about Christ, “Though He was rich, yet He became poor for your sakes that you might become rich through His poverty.” No “dilemna” Gene. He was never rich in this world. So He must have been rich in His pre-existance.Again, no dilemna for me Gene. The dilemna is yours.
thinker
I think this is an excellent point, if Yeshua did not preexist then when during His earthly life was He rich and then become poor? Search the gospels and you will not find it. Only if he pre-existed His birth in the form of God, emptied Himself and became a man (as described in Phil 2:5-8) do these statements make any sense at all.
Or maybe his earthly father and himself together prospered as carpenters before he took off on his ministry?Didn't Jews with trades back then make fairly good money?
Just a thought.
Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 04 2009,16:54) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 03 2009,17:58) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 02 2009,13:28) Gene,
Paul said about Christ, “Though He was rich, yet He became poor for your sakes that you might become rich through His poverty.” No “dilemna” Gene. He was never rich in this world. So He must have been rich in His pre-existance.Again, no dilemna for me Gene. The dilemna is yours.
thinker
I think this is an excellent point, if Yeshua did not preexist then when during His earthly life was He rich and then become poor? Search the gospels and you will not find it. Only if he pre-existed His birth in the form of God, emptied Himself and became a man (as described in Phil 2:5-8) do these statements make any sense at all.
Or maybe his earthly father and himself together prospered as carpenters before he took off on his ministry?Didn't Jews with trades back then make fairly good money?
Just a thought.
I think it's far more likely that Paul was cross referencing Philippians 2:5-7. Don't you?Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 04 2009,16:54) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Oct. 03 2009,17:58) Quote (thethinker @ Oct. 02 2009,13:28) Gene,
Paul said about Christ, “Though He was rich, yet He became poor for your sakes that you might become rich through His poverty.” No “dilemna” Gene. He was never rich in this world. So He must have been rich in His pre-existance.Again, no dilemna for me Gene. The dilemna is yours.
thinker
I think this is an excellent point, if Yeshua did not preexist then when during His earthly life was He rich and then become poor? Search the gospels and you will not find it. Only if he pre-existed His birth in the form of God, emptied Himself and became a man (as described in Phil 2:5-8) do these statements make any sense at all.
Or maybe his earthly father and himself together prospered as carpenters before he took off on his ministry?
Jesus said this, “The Son of Man has no place to lay His head.” And the donkey on which He rode into Jerusalem was not His own. He was never rich in this world.Furthermore, Paul said that we become “rich” through His poverty. The riches therefore are not earthly but heavenly.
thinker
Yet Jesus wore a seamless garment and had an accountant carrying his money around so he wasn't poor. He just didn't seem to attach himself to physical things as in ownership. Yes the true riches for him as well as us are stored up through the spiritual understanding of our minds. Lets look at the Spiritual application of all scripture and things will lighten up. Did Yeshua preexist? Absolutely! Yeshua was Jesus, was the son of God, was the word of God and yes the word of God was in God, is in God, and will be in God, forever! Spirit will expand our understanding of scriptures beyond what we now can see. As the Truth expands spiritually it is easier to see that it all becomes ONE! This is the most exciting thing we can discuss. When the New Testament talks about death we hear cessation of life. Yet there is no such thing as cessation of life if you believe in eternal life. There is a transition from physical to non-physical but no end of life! When Paul said, he died he did not mean physically ceasing to exist. We are each an ego being constantly created and moulded by our choices of information and beliefs that we accept, which controls our lives. Paul was saying, put off your self/ego/control and take on God/Spirit. Then it is no longer you that liveth but Christ in you. Then, full of the fruit of the Spirit of God, you begin to sow only good seed(words) from God of love, peace, joy etc. which will return a crop to you of the same and abundantly more. Teaching fear, judgment, pain, sorrow, and suffering is anti-Christ and highly destructive to an individuals life. Bless you all, TK
Hi TK,
To gain eternal life you must repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of your sins and God will share of His eternal Spirit with you.[acts2]
You must first die with Christ in baptism that you can be raised anew in the Spirit and rise to meet with Christ on his return.[rom6]
If you walk in that Spirit and feed on the word you will be transformed into the likeness of Christ including his mind.[rom12]Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 02 2009,07:13) Genesis 16:9-13: 9And the Messenger of Jehovah saith to her, `Turn back unto thy mistress, and humble thyself under her hands;'
10and the Messenger of Jehovah saith to her, `Multiplying, I multiply thy seed, and it is not numbered from multitude;'
11and the Messenger of Jehovah saith to her, `Behold thou [art] conceiving, and bearing a son, and hast called his name Ishmael, for Jehovah hath hearkened unto thine affliction;
12and he is a wild-man, his hand against every one, and every one's hand against him — and before the face of all his brethren he dwelleth.'
13And she calleth the name of Jehovah who is speaking unto her, `Thou [art], O God, my beholder;' for she said, `Even here have I looked behind my beholder?'
In verse 10 the Messenger of Jehovah said, “I multiply they seed.” This means that the Messenger of Jehovah is also Jehovah. And in verse 13 Hagar identified the Messenger of Jehovah as Jehovah God, “And she calleth the name of of Jehovah who is speaking with her…. 'O God, my beholder….”
So God is NOT a solitary Being as anti-trinitarians say. He is a plural Being.
thinker
Is the Angel of the Lord (LORD) just an Angel of the Lord (LORD)? Michael the ArchAngel? Jesus? or Yahweh Himself?This is a very long post and seems to get confusing as I try to glean through it, it seems to jump all over the place.
Anyone able to give a synopsis on who believes what in here? I can't figure out who stands where.
Blessings
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