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Hi Gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 03 2009,12:02) As far as Gnostic beliefs goes it is the TRINITARIANS who believe that Jesus come forth From GOD , a GOD From GOD (Homoussious) Just like the Gnostic's Believed.
No Gene, the Gnostics believed that Jesus didn't “come in the flesh” like you do.Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that “he had come from God and was returning to God“; John 13:3
“For I came down from heaven“, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 6:38
Why do you not believe his words?
WJ
WJ……….So are you saying YOU don not believe Jesus came from GOD, a GOD FROM GOD (Homonussious ) Interesting the DOCTRINE of the TRINITY Say that He DID and IS A GOD. You need to read up of the teachings of the Gnostic's they certainly did believe Jesus was a GOD who came in and appeared as flesh ,from the Pleura of GODS. You Trinitarians also believe that, you say the same thing that Jesus was a GOD in the FLESH , But GOD is NOT FLESH , so you say He appeared in flesh form but was really a GOD. There is no difference between you Trinitarian teaching and the Gnostic's. All who do not see Jesus as coming in Existence in the flesh are as John said Antichrist and this (IS) the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of Antichrist, that was there even in John and Paul's Day. IMO
peace and love…………….gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 03 2009,12:44) WJ……….So are you saying YOU don not believe Jesus came from GOD, a GOD FROM GOD (Homonussious ) Interesting the DOCTRINE of the TRINITY Say that He DID and IS A GOD. You need to read up of the teachings of the Gnostic's they certainly did believe Jesus was a GOD who came in and appeared as flesh ,from the Pleura of GODS. You Trinitarians also believe that, you say the same thing that Jesus was a GOD in the FLESH , But GOD is NOT FLESH , so you say He appeared in flesh form but was really a GOD. There is no difference between you Trinitarian teaching and the Gnostic's. All who do not see Jesus as coming in Existence in the flesh are as John said Antichrist and this (IS) the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of Antichrist, that was there even in John and Paul's Day. IMO peace and love…………….gene
Hi GeneThe Gnostics did not believe that Jesus came in the flesh, but that he appeared.
You also do not believe Jesus “Came in the flesh” for you believe that he did not come from God but just appeared to do the will of the Father rather than coming to do the will of the Father.
Like I said, do you believe Jesus simple words or not…
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that “he had come from God and was returning to God“; John 13:3
“For I came down from heaven“, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 6:38
WJ
Gene said:
Quote As far as Gnostic beliefs goes it is the TRINITARIANS who believe that Jesus come forth From GOD , a GOD From GOD (Homoussious) Just like the Gnostic's Believed. History revision. I noticed you did not offer proof for your ridiculous assertion.
thinker
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 03 2009,12:44) WJ……….So are you saying YOU don not believe Jesus came from GOD, a GOD FROM GOD (Homonussious ) Interesting the DOCTRINE of the TRINITY Say that He DID and IS A GOD. You need to read up of the teachings of the Gnostic's they certainly did believe Jesus was a GOD who came in and appeared as flesh ,from the Pleura of GODS. You Trinitarians also believe that, you say the same thing that Jesus was a GOD in the FLESH , But GOD is NOT FLESH , so you say He appeared in flesh form but was really a GOD. There is no difference between you Trinitarian teaching and the Gnostic's. All who do not see Jesus as coming in Existence in the flesh are as John said Antichrist and this (IS) the SPIRIT (INTELLECT) of Antichrist, that was there even in John and Paul's Day. IMO
peace and love…………….gene
Gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 03 2009,12:44) You Trinitarians also believe that, you say the same thing that Jesus was a GOD in the FLESH , But GOD is NOT FLESH , so you say He appeared in flesh form but was really a GOD.
Your own words betray you. For you say that the Father God was in Jesus body the flesh, so how is it that you now say that God cannot dwell in flesh?Jesus was not just flesh my friend he was Spirit that lived in his body which is the Temple of God!
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: “therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's“. 1 Cor 6:19, 20
We are Spirit beings made after the image of God, for the flesh is not his image. Our bodies are dead without our Spirits which shall one day leave the Body, and put on a new Body fashioned after his glorious body!
WJ
Gene said:
Quote You Trinitarians also believe that, you say the same thing that Jesus was a GOD in the FLESH , But GOD is NOT FLESH , so you say He appeared in flesh form but was really a GOD. “And the Word BECAME flesh and dwelt among us.” The Word is called “God” in verse 1. We do not say that Jesus was a God in the flesh. We say with the apostle John that He was GOD in the flesh. All other anti-trinitarians know that you misrepresent trinitarianism. All know that we claim that Jesus was GOD in the flesh.
thinker
WJ……..You misrepresent what I have said, so me where i said GOD could not INDWELL FLESH. and I do believe Jesus came into existence as a Flesh and BLOOD PERSON, A PURE HUMAN BEING. NOT AN (incarnate) GOD as the Gnostic's taught as well as TRINITARIANS, The Gnostic's thought a GOD was sent forth from the Pleura and appeared in form as a Human being, They said He only appeared Human, but was in fact a GOD. At least they had enough sense to know He could not have been a HUMAN being AND A GOD at the same time. He could NOT have been (FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN) at the same time, That is what the Trinitarians believe. Scripture says (PLAINLY) GOD IS NOT A MAN> So why do you trinitarians try to make Him appear as ONE. (Jesus said (NO) MAN Has seen GOD at (ANY TIME)> What don't you trinitarians understand about that. Jesus was a MAN “for there is ONE GOD and ONE mediator between GOD and MAN (THE MAN) Jesus Christ. Interesting Jesus say God is a SPIRIT and NO Man has ever seen GOD, trinitarians say Jesus was GOD HIMSELF well then Many Have seen GOD because if Jesus was almighty GOD they all that were there seen HIM. Trinitarian confusion never stops, Just jump from here to there never coming to the truth, never believing Jesus' own words. It amazes me WJ.
peace and love……………..gene
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 04 2009,05:23) Gene said: Quote You Trinitarians also believe that, you say the same thing that Jesus was a GOD in the FLESH , But GOD is NOT FLESH , so you say He appeared in flesh form but was really a GOD. “And the Word BECAME flesh and dwelt among us.” The Word is called “God” in verse 1. We do not say that Jesus was a God in the flesh. We say with the apostle John that He was GOD in the flesh. All other anti-trinitarians know that you misrepresent trinitarianism. All know that we claim that Jesus was GOD in the flesh.
thinker
Thinker……..Anyone with any understanding KNOWS (A) WORD CAN NOT (BE) FLESH. Because a word is from Spirit and a spirit is not FLESH. Or don't you remember when Jesus said that He was (NOT) a SPIRIT, “for a Spirit does (NOT) have Flesh and Bone as you see I have”. What part of that you don't understand thinker.pace and love……………….gene
Hi Gene
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 03 2009,15:55) Just jump from here to there never coming to the truth, never believing Jesus' own words. It amazes me WJ. Who is not believing his words Gene?
Jesus knew that the Father had put all things under his power, and that “he had come from God and was returning to God“; John 13:3
“For I came down from heaven“, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. John 6:38
Why do you not believe his words?
How long will you go without addressing these scriptures?
WJ
Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 03 2009,10:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 03 2009,06:11) Hi TT,
So angels never spoke for God?
You have read of the burning bush where the angel spoke for God?The Angels of God often do this as direct conveyors of messages for God
Your scripture twisting Nick. The angel said to Hagar, “I will multiply your seed.” The Angel did not say “He” but “I will multiply your seed.” The angel could not say this unless He was God. And Hagar replied to the one who spoke with her and called Him “Jehovah” and “God.” Did you get that Nick? Hagar called the Angel by the name Jehovah.Moses also called the Angel “Jehovah” (Exodus 4:1).
Therefore, the Angel who spoke for Jehovah was Jehovah.
Aren't you glad that all your sins are forgiven including your doctrinal falsehoods? Jesus won't bring up your errors when you get to heaven because He washed them all away!
thinker
What Bible are you using? In my King James Bible it says
Then Moses said ” Suppose they will not believe me or listen to my voice; suppose they say;” The LORD has not appeared to you.
Also my Bible does not speak of Jehovah at all. Somebody told me that the Bible speak of Jehovah 38 times. I like to know which Bible that is?
IreneQuote (Gene @ Aug. 04 2009,07:55) WJ……..You misrepresent what I have said, so me where i said GOD could not INDWELL FLESH. and I do believe Jesus came into existence as a Flesh and BLOOD PERSON, A PURE HUMAN BEING. NOT AN (incarnate) GOD as the Gnostic's taught as well as TRINITARIANS, The Gnostic's thought a GOD was sent forth from the Pleura and appeared in form as a Human being, They said He only appeared Human, but was in fact a GOD. At least they had enough sense to know He could not have been a HUMAN being AND A GOD at the same time. He could NOT have been (FULLY GOD AND FULLY MAN) at the same time, That is what the Trinitarians believe. Scripture says (PLAINLY) GOD IS NOT A MAN> So why do you trinitarians try to make Him appear as ONE. (Jesus said (NO) MAN Has seen GOD at (ANY TIME)> What don't you trinitarians understand about that. Jesus was a MAN “for there is ONE GOD and ONE mediator between GOD and MAN (THE MAN) Jesus Christ. Interesting Jesus say God is a SPIRIT and NO Man has ever seen GOD, trinitarians say Jesus was GOD HIMSELF well then Many Have seen GOD because if Jesus was almighty GOD they all that were there seen HIM. Trinitarian confusion never stops, Just jump from here to there never coming to the truth, never believing Jesus' own words. It amazes me WJ. peace and love……………..gene
Gene,
You are gravely mistaken. The Gnostics taught that God could not become incarnate. Where in hades are you getting your information? And why does it matter? Moses said that the Messenger who spoke with Hagar was Jehovah (Genesis 16:13).What Moses said is all that matters.
thinker
Quote (Gene @ Aug. 04 2009,08:06) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 04 2009,05:23) Gene said: Quote You Trinitarians also believe that, you say the same thing that Jesus was a GOD in the FLESH , But GOD is NOT FLESH , so you say He appeared in flesh form but was really a GOD. “And the Word BECAME flesh and dwelt among us.” The Word is called “God” in verse 1. We do not say that Jesus was a God in the flesh. We say with the apostle John that He was GOD in the flesh. All other anti-trinitarians know that you misrepresent trinitarianism. All know that we claim that Jesus was GOD in the flesh.
thinker
Thinker……..Anyone with any understanding KNOWS (A) WORD CAN NOT (BE) FLESH. Because a word is from Spirit and a spirit is not FLESH. Or don't you remember when Jesus said that He was (NOT) a SPIRIT, “for a Spirit does (NOT) have Flesh and Bone as you see I have”. What part of that you don't understand thinker.pace and love……………….gene
The word “logos” is a metaphor Gene. It simply describes Christ's character and nature as the One who would explain God to men. Verse 18 says that “He has explained Him (God).”“The Word became flesh.” Cast off your Gnosticism. The Gnostics have always been an enemy of Christians.
thinker
Hi TT,
Is very angel messenger in your community god actually God or only some of them, some of the time??Irene said:
Quote What Bible are you using? In my King James Bible it says
Then Moses said ” Suppose they will not believe me or listen to my voice; suppose they say;” The LORD has not appeared to you.
Also my Bible does not speak of Jehovah at all. Somebody told me that the Bible speak of Jehovah 38 times. I like to know which Bible that is?
Irene
Irene,
Why would the people deny that Jehovah appeared to Moses unless Moses claimed that Jehovah appeared to him? And why would the Messenger of Jehovah say to Moses “I am the God of your father….”Quote 2 And the Messenger of Jehovah appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
4 So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
5 Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” 6 Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God.The Messenger of Jehovah said “I am the God of your fathers.”
SUMMARY:
MOSES:
1. God called to Moses from the midst of the bush. So the Messenger in the midst of the bush was God.
2. The Messenger of the Jehovah said that He is the God of Moses' fathers.
3. Moses hid his face because He was afraid to look upon God.
4. Moses would claim to the people that Jehovah appeared to him (4:1).HAGAR:
1. The Messenger of Jehovah said “I will multiply your seed.” This means that He was God.
2. Moses said that the One who spoke to Hagar was Jehovah.
3. Hagar called the Messenger “O God my beholder” because she had “actually seen God” (anti-trinitarian translation)thinker
Hi TT,
So this was the messenger?
Is God just a messenger?
Who does God work for?Your understandings of the ways of God are quite limited it seems yet you would teach them?
Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 04 2009,12:04) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 03 2009,10:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 03 2009,06:11) Hi TT,
So angels never spoke for God?
You have read of the burning bush where the angel spoke for God?The Angels of God often do this as direct conveyors of messages for God
Your scripture twisting Nick. The angel said to Hagar, “I will multiply your seed.” The Angel did not say “He” but “I will multiply your seed.” The angel could not say this unless He was God. And Hagar replied to the one who spoke with her and called Him “Jehovah” and “God.” Did you get that Nick? Hagar called the Angel by the name Jehovah.Moses also called the Angel “Jehovah” (Exodus 4:1).
Therefore, the Angel who spoke for Jehovah was Jehovah.
Aren't you glad that all your sins are forgiven including your doctrinal falsehoods? Jesus won't bring up your errors when you get to heaven because He washed them all away!
thinker
What Bible are you using? In my King James Bible it says
Then Moses said ” Suppose they will not believe me or listen to my voice; suppose they say;” The LORD has not appeared to you.
Also my Bible does not speak of Jehovah at all. Somebody told me that the Bible speak of Jehovah 38 times. I like to know which Bible that is?
Irene
Hi Irene
Someone misinformed you; in the preserved word of God for the English speaking people, the King James Bible, the name “JEHOVAH” (as God) only appears 4 times. However; there are 3 additional occasions of altar’s named Jehovah with the appendages: jireh, nissi, and shalom.Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Psa 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Isa 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:
Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Exo 17:15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:
Jdg 6:24 Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.
Quote (Christian Biker @ Aug. 03 2009,22:32) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 04 2009,12:04) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 03 2009,10:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 03 2009,06:11) Hi TT,
So angels never spoke for God?
You have read of the burning bush where the angel spoke for God?The Angels of God often do this as direct conveyors of messages for God
Your scripture twisting Nick. The angel said to Hagar, “I will multiply your seed.” The Angel did not say “He” but “I will multiply your seed.” The angel could not say this unless He was God. And Hagar replied to the one who spoke with her and called Him “Jehovah” and “God.” Did you get that Nick? Hagar called the Angel by the name Jehovah.Moses also called the Angel “Jehovah” (Exodus 4:1).
Therefore, the Angel who spoke for Jehovah was Jehovah.
Aren't you glad that all your sins are forgiven including your doctrinal falsehoods? Jesus won't bring up your errors when you get to heaven because He washed them all away!
thinker
What Bible are you using? In my King James Bible it says
Then Moses said ” Suppose they will not believe me or listen to my voice; suppose they say;” The LORD has not appeared to you.
Also my Bible does not speak of Jehovah at all. Somebody told me that the Bible speak of Jehovah 38 times. I like to know which Bible that is?
Irene
Hi Irene
Someone misinformed you; in the preserved word of God for the English speaking people, the King James Bible, the name “JEHOVAH” (as God) only appears 4 times. However; there are 3 additional occasions of altar’s named Jehovah with the appendages: jireh, nissi, and shalom.Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Psa 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Isa 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:
Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Exo 17:15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:
Jdg 6:24 Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.
Hi JackThe name Jehovah is derived from the tetragamation “YHWH” which is translated “Lord” over 6500 times in the NT!
It was later translated from Hebrew in the Greek LXX as “Kurious” or Lord which is mostly used in the NT Greek text for Jesus!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 04 2009,17:50) Quote (Christian Biker @ Aug. 03 2009,22:32) Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 04 2009,12:04) Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 03 2009,10:13) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 03 2009,06:11) Hi TT,
So angels never spoke for God?
You have read of the burning bush where the angel spoke for God?The Angels of God often do this as direct conveyors of messages for God
Your scripture twisting Nick. The angel said to Hagar, “I will multiply your seed.” The Angel did not say “He” but “I will multiply your seed.” The angel could not say this unless He was God. And Hagar replied to the one who spoke with her and called Him “Jehovah” and “God.” Did you get that Nick? Hagar called the Angel by the name Jehovah.Moses also called the Angel “Jehovah” (Exodus 4:1).
Therefore, the Angel who spoke for Jehovah was Jehovah.
Aren't you glad that all your sins are forgiven including your doctrinal falsehoods? Jesus won't bring up your errors when you get to heaven because He washed them all away!
thinker
What Bible are you using? In my King James Bible it says
Then Moses said ” Suppose they will not believe me or listen to my voice; suppose they say;” The LORD has not appeared to you.
Also my Bible does not speak of Jehovah at all. Somebody told me that the Bible speak of Jehovah 38 times. I like to know which Bible that is?
Irene
Hi Irene
Someone misinformed you; in the preserved word of God for the English speaking people, the King James Bible, the name “JEHOVAH” (as God) only appears 4 times. However; there are 3 additional occasions of altar’s named Jehovah with the appendages: jireh, nissi, and shalom.Exo 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
Psa 83:18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.
Isa 12:2 Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD JEHOVAH is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.
Isa 26:4 Trust ye in the LORD for ever: for in the LORD JEHOVAH is everlasting strength:
Gen 22:14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.
Exo 17:15 And Moses built an altar, and called the name of it Jehovahnissi:
Jdg 6:24 Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovahshalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites.
Hi JackThe name Jehovah is derived from the tetragamation “YHWH” which is translated “Lord” over 6500 times in the NT!
It was later translated from Hebrew in the Greek LXX as “Kurious” or Lord which is mostly used in the NT Greek text for Jesus!
WJ
WJ,
Did you intend to say the above to Christian Biker?thinker
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