The Manuscripts

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,10:24)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,09:49) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,09:24) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,08:46) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,08:36) WJ, Did God inspire the errors, too? Mandy The errors are in translation and not the text. But the errors you speak of are few and do no damage to the overall message of the Bible and the basic tenants of the faith. WJ But all we have are translations…. Mandy No, we also have Greek and Hebrew literall interlinears and concordances where we can examine Hebrew and Greek meanings for ourselves. WJ Question: Did the texts you ref to above have an original copy of the scriptures to work from?

not3

So you think that because there is a few errors then it is not to be trusted?

Is it entirely possible that God is able to preserve his inspired written word?

Sorry Mandy. Call it blind faith. But I do not approach the Holy scriptures with the attitude that it is corrupt.

And in fact my faith is not solely based on the written word but also in the Spirit of Truth that confirms the things written.

If I believed that the scriptures are corrupt then what is the point have these discussions. For there is no final authority is there?

Yeshua spoke of the scriptures many times and the Apostles claimed to have a direct revelation from the Lord, and the 1000s of manuscripts from all over the world from various times have very few discrepencies and most of those are in punctuation or a missed letter.

However many put more faith in the local newspaper than in the soundest document in the history of man.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,10:31)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,10:00) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,09:55) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,09:45) Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,09:31) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,08:44) Hi not3, If you know of error introduced by man should they make you stumble? Or is it just the fear that there are other hidden errors that God will let slip by you? If you let scripture interpret scripture and rely on proofs by scriptural support should that not help? 1.  Yes.  Because man put the books together.  Man added to the books.  And the only thing we can say is the original text was OK.  But that doesn't help those of us who do not possess a copy of the original. 2.  Yes.  We may not know until thousands of years pass that some information was added by a scribe.  Look at all the poor souls who banked on 1 John 5:7 and were completely duped. 3.  Yes.  Error can confirm error.  Ha!  No, seriously, I do believe in the words contained in the bible and they do help in supporting other words.  However, I do not put lock-stock-and-barrel in their inclusions/exclusions of human beings and doctine.  I put my faith in God who is unseen and largely unknown today. I look forward to the Day when we will see him and know….  Until then, gray exists for me.  I cannot say I know for certain, 100% about anything written in the bible.  Look at those who did and found out the dried ink had been tampered with. Mandy How are they poor souls? 1 John 5:7 or the lack of it does not break down scriptures that support the Trinitarian view. WJ According to you…. But it was the ONLY verse that confirmed the trinity, literally.  Without it, questions arise naturally. Mandy For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7 We know that the Father is one with Yeshua and his Spirit. How does this verse say Yeshua and the Spirit is God? If this verse was still in the bible would it change anyones belief? I dont think so. I can hear the debate going “but just because Yeshua is one with the Father and the Spirit does not mean he is God”. WJ Hi WJ, Offering this added verse to support your arguments shows how weak they are.

NH

If you read my post I am not adding this verse to my belief.

But as usual like a badger you try to provoke and interogate rather than encourage.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (david @ Aug. 20 2008,10:31)

Quote I can hear the debate going “but just because Yeshua is one with the Father and the Spirit does not mean he is God”. –wj Well, yes… JOHN 17:11 ““Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that THEY [Jesus followers] MAY BE ONE JUST AS WE [Father and Son] ARE.” JOHN 17:21 “in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.” It's clearly talking about unity.  For the Father and Son are “one” just as Jesus followers are to be “one.”

David

See. My point affirmed!

WJ

[david]

Quote

David See. My point affirmed! WJ

By the Bible. In extremely clear to understand language. This Jesus being “one” with God is essentially defined and explained in this other scripture. That being the case, this scripture really has no bearing on the trinity belief. It has nothing to do with Jesus being God or part of a trinity.

I forgot verse 22:

JOHN 17:22
“. . . .in order that they [my followers] may be one JUST AS WE [God and Jesus] ARE ONE.”

[Not3in1]

Hey Keith,

I can tell when you start to get a bit miffed at me….you start to call me “not3” instead of “Mandy”.     I'm just kidd'en ya.

Quote

Is it entirely possible that God is able to preserve his inspired written word?

I believe anything is possible with God.  But it doesn't appear that he “preserved” his inspired written word when it contains errors?  That is why I asked you earlier, “Did God also inspire the errors?”.

Quote

Sorry Mandy. Call it blind faith. But I do not approach the Holy scriptures with the attitude that it is corrupt.

I don't either, really.  I thoroughly enjoy my devotions and study.  I feel that God speaks to me many things, however I am aware that indeed the bible as we have it today has been corrupted by men.

Quote

And in fact my faith is not solely based on the written word but also in the Spirit of Truth that confirms the things written.

Yes, and this “Spirit of Truth” tells many different believer's different things – somtimes even opposing things!  Therefore can this method be trusted completely (absolutely)?

Quote

If I believed that the scriptures are corrupt then what is the point have these discussions. For there is no final authority is there?

Well, these discussions keep me from doing the laundry, that's one reason.  No, I'm kidding.  The point of having these discussions, I feel, is so that we can see there are many different belief's yet one Spirit.  What we do with this information is up to each one of us.  We can either recognize that there is some problems with the whole idea of being “led by the Spirit” or we can continue on in our blind faith.

I don't mean to be so negative, really.  I believe the bible mostly.  I do rely on God's Spirit to lead me.  I just don't use it against other's OR draw absolute lines in the sand.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Sooner or later you will have to go back to trusting God as we have nothing useful to offer.
The bible is sound. More trustworthy than any man.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,10:56)

Hi not3, Sooner or later you will have to go back to trusting God as we have nothing useful to offer. The bible is sound. More trustworthy than any man.

Hi Nick,

Oh, I trust God alright. But God is not pages in a book or pew's in a building. He is Spirit and he teaches us what we need to know.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,10:56)

Hi not3, Sooner or later you will have to go back to trusting God as we have nothing useful to offer. The bible is sound. More trustworthy than any man.

NH

I agree!

WJ

[Not3in1]

You brother's believe the Bible is “sound”? How curious. How can you believe that about a project that was put together by committee? And that later was found to be in error?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:03)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,10:56) Hi not3, Sooner or later you will have to go back to trusting God as we have nothing useful to offer. The bible is sound. More trustworthy than any man. Hi Nick, Oh, I trust God alright.  But God is not pages in a book or pew's in a building.  He is Spirit and he teaches us what we need to know.

Mandy

But you just said this…

Quote

We can either recognize that there is some problems with the whole idea of being “led by the Spirit” or we can continue on in our blind faith.

So if there is problems with being led by the Spirit then how can you know that he is teaching you?

And, No I do not start typing not3 when I am getting miffed.

I was typing fast.

WJ

[Not3in1]

sound
having no defect as to truth, justice, wisdom, or reason: sound advice.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:06)

You brother's believe the Bible is “sound”?  How curious.  How can you believe that about a project that was put together by committee?  And that later was found to be in error?

Mandy

Something can be “sound” without being perfect.

WJ

[Not3in1]

Keith,

I do trust the Spirit and what God tells me. But I do not hold other's to it's message because I can plainly see that Spirit gives other's different messages……

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
You have to put your faith somewhere?
In yourself or in God?

[Not3in1]

Sound – NO defect

That sounds pretty perfect to me? No?

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,11:11)

Hi not3, You have to put your faith somewhere? In yourself or in God?

Huh?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:11)

Sound – NO defect That sounds pretty perfect to me?  No?

Mandy

Sound

logically valid and having true premises

Source

There is more than one definition.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:11)

Keith, I do trust the Spirit and what God tells me.  But I do not hold other's to it's message because I can plainly see that Spirit gives other's different messages……

Mandy

So the Spirit of God speaks one thing to someone and then speaks something contradictory to someone else?

WJ

[Not3in1]

Sure, there is certainly more than one definition for anything. But why search for another definition just because one doesn't fit what you want to believe? We do that so much around here, don't we (myself included).

[Not3in1]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,11:16)

Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:11) Keith, I do trust the Spirit and what God tells me.  But I do not hold other's to it's message because I can plainly see that Spirit gives other's different messages…… Mandy So the Spirit of God speaks one thing to someone and then speaks something contradictory to someone else? WJ

That's a ROGER. A big 10-4 there, good buddy.

You and I are perfect examples of the Spirit telling us two different things.

What do you make of it?

[Author]

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