The Manuscripts

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  • #102235

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,10:24)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,09:49)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,09:24)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,08:46)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,08:36)
    WJ,
    Did God inspire the errors, too?


    Mandy

    The errors are in translation and not the text.

    But the errors you speak of are few and do no damage to the overall message of the Bible and the basic tenants of the faith.

    WJ


    But all we have are translations….


    Mandy

    No, we also have Greek and Hebrew literall interlinears and concordances where we can examine Hebrew and Greek meanings for ourselves.

    WJ


    Question:

    Did the texts you ref to above have an original copy of the scriptures to work from?

    :;):


    not3

    So you think that because there is a few errors then it is not to be trusted?

    Is it entirely possible that God is able to preserve his inspired written word?

    Sorry Mandy. Call it blind faith. But I do not approach the Holy scriptures with the attitude that it is corrupt.

    And in fact my faith is not solely based on the written word but also in the Spirit of Truth that confirms the things written.

    If I believed that the scriptures are corrupt then what is the point have these discussions. For there is no final authority is there?

    Yeshua spoke of the scriptures many times and the Apostles claimed to have a direct revelation from the Lord, and the 1000s of manuscripts from all over the world from various times have very few discrepencies and most of those are in punctuation or a missed letter.

    However many put more faith in the local newspaper than in the soundest document in the history of man.

    WJ

    #102236

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,10:31)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,10:00)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,09:55)

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,09:45)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,09:31)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,08:44)
    Hi not3,
    If you know of error introduced by man should they make you stumble?
    Or is it just the fear that there are other hidden errors that God will let slip by you?
    If you let scripture interpret scripture and rely on proofs by scriptural support should that not help?


    1.  Yes.  Because man put the books together.  Man added to the books.  And the only thing we can say is the original text was OK.  But that doesn't help those of us who do not possess a copy of the original.

    2.  Yes.  We may not know until thousands of years pass that some information was added by a scribe.  Look at all the poor souls who banked on 1 John 5:7 and were completely duped.

    3.  Yes.  Error can confirm error.  Ha!  No, seriously, I do believe in the words contained in the bible and they do help in supporting other words.  However, I do not put lock-stock-and-barrel in their inclusions/exclusions of human beings and doctine.  I put my faith in God who is unseen and largely unknown today.

    I look forward to the Day when we will see him and know….  Until then, gray exists for me.  I cannot say I know for certain, 100% about anything written in the bible.  Look at those who did and found out the dried ink had been tampered with.


    Mandy

    How are they poor souls?

    1 John 5:7 or the lack of it does not break down scriptures that support the Trinitarian view.

    WJ


    According to you….

    But it was the ONLY verse that confirmed the trinity, literally.  Without it, questions arise naturally.


    Mandy

    For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7

    We know that the Father is one with Yeshua and his Spirit.

    How does this verse say Yeshua and the Spirit is God?

    If this verse was still in the bible would it change anyones belief?

    I dont think so. I can hear the debate going “but just because Yeshua is one with the Father and the Spirit does not mean he is God”.

    WJ


    Hi WJ,
    Offering this added verse to support your arguments shows how weak they are.


    NH

    If you read my post I am not adding this verse to my belief.

    But as usual like a badger you try to provoke and interogate rather than encourage.

    WJ

    #102237

    Quote (david @ Aug. 20 2008,10:31)

    Quote
    I can hear the debate going “but just because Yeshua is one with the Father and the Spirit does not mean he is God”.

    –wj

    Well, yes…

    JOHN 17:11
    ““Also, I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name which you have given me, in order that THEY [Jesus followers] MAY BE ONE JUST AS WE [Father and Son] ARE.”

    JOHN 17:21
    “in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth.”

    It's clearly talking about unity.  For the Father and Son are “one” just as Jesus followers are to be “one.”


    David

    See. My point affirmed!

    WJ

    #102239
    david
    Participant

    Quote
    David

    See. My point affirmed!

    WJ

    By the Bible. In extremely clear to understand language. This Jesus being “one” with God is essentially defined and explained in this other scripture. That being the case, this scripture really has no bearing on the trinity belief. It has nothing to do with Jesus being God or part of a trinity.

    I forgot verse 22:

    JOHN 17:22
    “. . . .in order that they [my followers] may be one JUST AS WE [God and Jesus] ARE ONE.”

    #102240
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Hey Keith,

    I can tell when you start to get a bit miffed at me….you start to call me “not3” instead of “Mandy”.  :;):   I'm just kidd'en ya.

    Quote
    Is it entirely possible that God is able to preserve his inspired written word?


    I believe anything is possible with God.  But it doesn't appear that he “preserved” his inspired written word when it contains errors?  That is why I asked you earlier, “Did God also inspire the errors?”.

    Quote
    Sorry Mandy. Call it blind faith. But I do not approach the Holy scriptures with the attitude that it is corrupt.


    I don't either, really.  I thoroughly enjoy my devotions and study.  I feel that God speaks to me many things, however I am aware that indeed the bible as we have it today has been corrupted by men.

    Quote
    And in fact my faith is not solely based on the written word but also in the Spirit of Truth that confirms the things written.


    Yes, and this “Spirit of Truth” tells many different believer's different things – somtimes even opposing things!  Therefore can this method be trusted completely (absolutely)?

    Quote
    If I believed that the scriptures are corrupt then what is the point have these discussions. For there is no final authority is there?


    Well, these discussions keep me from doing the laundry, that's one reason.  No, I'm kidding.  The point of having these discussions, I feel, is so that we can see there are many different belief's yet one Spirit.  What we do with this information is up to each one of us.  We can either recognize that there is some problems with the whole idea of being “led by the Spirit” or we can continue on in our blind faith.

    I don't mean to be so negative, really.  I believe the bible mostly.  I do rely on God's Spirit to lead me.  I just don't use it against other's OR draw absolute lines in the sand.

    #102241
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi not3,
    Sooner or later you will have to go back to trusting God as we have nothing useful to offer.
    The bible is sound. More trustworthy than any man.

    #102242
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,10:56)
    Hi not3,
    Sooner or later you will have to go back to trusting God as we have nothing useful to offer.
    The bible is sound. More trustworthy than any man.


    Hi Nick,

    Oh, I trust God alright. But God is not pages in a book or pew's in a building. He is Spirit and he teaches us what we need to know.

    #102243

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,10:56)
    Hi not3,
    Sooner or later you will have to go back to trusting God as we have nothing useful to offer.
    The bible is sound. More trustworthy than any man.


    NH

    I agree!

    WJ

    #102244
    Not3in1
    Participant

    You brother's believe the Bible is “sound”? How curious. How can you believe that about a project that was put together by committee? And that later was found to be in error?

    #102245

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:03)

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,10:56)
    Hi not3,
    Sooner or later you will have to go back to trusting God as we have nothing useful to offer.
    The bible is sound. More trustworthy than any man.


    Hi Nick,

    Oh, I trust God alright.  But God is not pages in a book or pew's in a building.  He is Spirit and he teaches us what we need to know.


    Mandy

    But you just said this…

    Quote
    We can either recognize that there is some problems with the whole idea of being “led by the Spirit” or we can continue on in our blind faith.

    So if there is problems with being led by the Spirit then how can you know that he is teaching you?

    And, No I do not start typing not3 when I am getting miffed.

    I was typing fast.

    WJ

    #102246
    Not3in1
    Participant

    sound
    having no defect as to truth, justice, wisdom, or reason: sound advice.

    #102247

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:06)
    You brother's believe the Bible is “sound”?  How curious.  How can you believe that about a project that was put together by committee?  And that later was found to be in error?


    Mandy

    Something can be “sound” without being perfect.

    WJ

    #102248
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Keith,

    I do trust the Spirit and what God tells me. But I do not hold other's to it's message because I can plainly see that Spirit gives other's different messages……

    #102249
    NickHassan
    Participant

    Hi not3,
    You have to put your faith somewhere?
    In yourself or in God?

    #102250
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Sound – NO defect

    That sounds pretty perfect to me? No?

    #102251
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2008,11:11)
    Hi not3,
    You have to put your faith somewhere?
    In yourself or in God?


    Huh? ???

    #102252

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:11)
    Sound – NO defect

    That sounds pretty perfect to me?  No?


    Mandy

    Sound

    logically valid and having true premises

    Source

    There is more than one definition.

    WJ

    #102253

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:11)
    Keith,

    I do trust the Spirit and what God tells me.  But I do not hold other's to it's message because I can plainly see that Spirit gives other's different messages……


    Mandy

    So the Spirit of God speaks one thing to someone and then speaks something contradictory to someone else?

    WJ

    #102254
    Not3in1
    Participant

    :D Sure, there is certainly more than one definition for anything. But why search for another definition just because one doesn't fit what you want to believe? We do that so much around here, don't we (myself included).

    #102255
    Not3in1
    Participant

    Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 20 2008,11:16)

    Quote (Not3in1 @ Aug. 20 2008,11:11)
    Keith,

    I do trust the Spirit and what God tells me.  But I do not hold other's to it's message because I can plainly see that Spirit gives other's different messages……


    Mandy

    So the Spirit of God speaks one thing to someone and then speaks something contradictory to someone else?

    WJ


    That's a ROGER. A big 10-4 there, good buddy. :)

    You and I are perfect examples of the Spirit telling us two different things.

    What do you make of it?

Viewing 20 posts - 121 through 140 (of 284 total)
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