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Georg……….I have posted them, You seem to leave out the fact that ITS A (LIE) a lie is something that is not true, and the Person is taking HIS seat in the (TEMPLE OF GOD) and BEING DISPLAYED AS GOD. Not as you say the Pope is being displayed a GOD, that simply is not true. He is not even in the true Church of GOD much less the temple, so how could he takes His seat their then. And Paul never said the Man of Sin is a real person, your inserting that there, He said ITS a LIE about a person taking His seat in the Temple of GOD and Being (DISPLAYED AS A GOD) and being WORSHIPED as a GOD, sorry you reducing this to any thing like a sports event or a pope being worshiped as a GOD does not fit because none of these are truly in the temple of GOD , ONLY Jesus is there. Forcing the text to try to make it fit Just doesn't work. There is only ONE person that is being preached and worshiped as a GOD today and that person is Jesus Christ HIMSELF NOT the POPE. IMO
peace and love………………………..gene
Gene
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.Paul apparently is explaining to the believers, that the day of Christ is not coming in the near future.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
He is also saying that there be a falling away from the truth, caused by this man of sin, which would identify him as that man of sin.
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
It is this man of sin who opposes all that is called God, he exalts “himself” as God, he claims to be the closest thing to God. That is not an idea, that is a person.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.The due time for this man to be revealed was, when Napoleon exposed him as a fraud, showing the world that this man had no real power at all; people did not have to fear him.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Paul is saying, the idea of this mystery church is already at work, but for now he is restrained, and that restrainer was the Roman emperor; as I have already explained.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
This man of sin will continue to deceive the world until the beginning of Christs reign.
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders.
“Even Him”, you see its a person, not an idea.
Georg
Georg……….You are imposing your own thought s into the scriptures. NO where does it say the falling away is being caused(BY) the man of sin that is your addition , In fact it says He would be revealed in His time, This (FALSE IMAGE of JESUS, was revealed at the council of NACIA in 325 AD. When Jesus became Known as a GOD, or Homoususis (GOD FROM GOD). The man of Sin is being (displayed)(Greek) as a GOD Not saying He is a god. “For to take his sit in the temple of GOD, being (DISPLAYED) as GOD. No one has taken His Seat in the Temple of GOD except Jesus Christ. Trying to force the text to accommodate your theology Just doesn't work, You have not mentioned WHAT THE LIE IS YET. The LIE is Being Preached every day and that LIE is that Jesus is a GOD HIMSELF. George ask yourself what was the Mystery of (INIQUITY) that was already working at the time of Paul, there was no Catholic church then, so what was this already working Mystery . It was at work in the GNOSTIC who were Presenting Jesus as a GOD who came forth from GOD . Read there early teachings and you will see this. They existed at the time of John as well as Paul and they were trying to force there beliefs on the Church but were being restrained by the Apostles at that time. (They were holding Back this false teaching). It was not the ROMAN EMPEROR AT ALL, it hadn't even adopted Christianity Yet. It was the teachings of the GNOSTIC' S nothing to do with ROME that would not take place for another 300 Years. At that time 325 AD Rome adapted Christianity as a state religion as history plainly shows and they also accepted the teaching of Athenians and His Bishops as There State religion and that was that Jesus is HOMOUSOOUS (GOD FROM GOD)> as History shows, While the Apostate Church became Know as the HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH Later . It was not the Author of the DOCTRINE of the TRINITY. That was Athenius and His Bishops who introduce the teaching of another GOD.
Why do you think Jesus will Abolish this LIE by the Breath of His (MOUTH) when he comes, BECAUSE IT IS NOT A REAL PERSON HE IS ABOLISHING, BUT A (LIE) ABOUT HIMSELF BEING DISPLAYED AS A GOD.
wHO so ever has ears to hear let Him hear. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene
Gorge ………… YOU mean If you can't put your wwcog ideologies into what has been written is the real truth. Come out of it as well as the rest of those false teachings. Jesus is the (ONLY) ONE being PREACHED as A REAL GOD, Not the POPE. By Catholics or Protestants. The Chatolic and Protestant Churches are the preachers of the LIE. That Jesus is a GOD. Whom Jesus Himself will abolish with the words of His own mouth at his return, as scripture plainly says. To those who have and ear and eyes to see, IMO
peace and love to you and Irene……………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ June 16 2009,01:15) Gorge ………… YOU mean If you can't put your wwcog ideologies into what has been written is the real truth. Come out of it as well as the rest of those false teachings. Jesus is the (ONLY) ONE being PREACHED as A REAL GOD, Not the POPE. By Catholics or Protestants. The Chatolic and Protestant Churches are the preachers of the LIE. That Jesus is a GOD. Whom Jesus Himself will abolish with the words of His own mouth at his return, as scripture plainly says. To those who have and ear and eyes to see, IMO peace and love to you and Irene……………………….gene
GeneSo let me see if I understand your words?
So if a Trinitarian confesses Jesus as their Lord and God as the scriptures do, then that means Jesus is going to destroy them?
So if a Trinitarian confesses Jesus as the “Son of God” (though with a different understanding than you do as to what that term meant to the Hebrews) then Jesus will destroy them?
So if a Trinitarian gives Jesus the same honour they give the Father because the scriptures tells them to, then Jesus will destroy them?
So if a Trinitarian believes in Jesus and that he has come and died and rose again and shed his precious blood for their sins and have repented and serve him with their whole heart, then Jesus will destroy them?
What Bible are you reading Gene? I thought you believed that no man can save themselves but God causes them to repent?
Well then by your view you are telling us that God is causing us to believe in the Trinity and then will destroy us even though we had nothing to do with getting saved!
Does any one have ears to hear what this man is saying?
WJ
WJ………..First of all i never said Jesus was going to destory anyone, I said He was going to ABOLISH the LIE, at His return by the words of His mouth. As scripture shows, Georg was talking about destroying a person not me. He believes the man of sin is a person (the POPE), not I. The issue i made is that Jesus is the only one who is sitting in the Temple of GOD and Being (DISPLAYED) by the apostate churches as very GOD Himself. And this creates the (IMAGE) of the MAN OF SIN. Which he will (ABOLISH) AT HIS RETURN, Jesus knows full well there is ONLY ONE True GOD. and even said that. ” FOR THOU ART THE ONLY TRUE GOD”. Is this not in your BIBLE? then believe it WJ. and you can easily see that creating another GOD is a SIN, THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME, said the LORD GOD himself, Just believe it WJ.
Confessing Jesus as son of GOD is a far different thing , then saying he is a GOD, we are also called sons of GOD, does that make us a GOD also. “know you not brethren that (NOW) your are sons of GOD”. Do you believe that WJ, it is written . WJ the LIE being talked abut in 2Ths2 by Paul is (NOT) a Person it is a LIE (about) a PERSON, and that Person is Jesus Himself. Thats my point no need to add anything else to that. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
Gene, you do an excellent job of paying close attention to the small details in scripture. I believe you have it right.
Whenever Jesse and I have to go inside a church, usually for a friends wedding, often Catholic ones, we cringe when we walk into the church and see the statue of Jesus on the cross. We give each other funny looks, looks of disgust because that statue represents to all the church goers God. I really don't like going into churches that have a giant statue of Jesus hanging on the cross. There is usually also some sort of banner that goes with it that is calling Jesus God. It makes me feel uncomfortable, like I am surrounded my ignorance and sin.
That statue is prevalent every where all around the world in thousands upon thousands of churches. Everyday and every week millions of people look at those Jesus statues and pray to them as if Jesus were God.
I find many things wrong with Georg's reasoning of the scriptures.
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
Nobody, as you have pointed out already Gene, worships the Pope as a god. When Jesus comes there will be nothing to reveal about the Pope himself, only that he taught the lie that Jesus was God.
Jesus will not need to come down and tell everyone that the Pope is not a god.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world.
As you also pointed out Gene, there was NO Pope, so how could the mystery already be at work and in the world?
The Pope deceives the world with false doctrine about Jesus, he does not deceive the world through having a following of people believing he is a god. Georg the behaviors you believe that make the Pope out to be the man of sin, we have seen throughout history to be in other religious leaders, as well as just leaders in general. That makes the Popes behavior nothing knew or unique.
The mystery was not about a church or the Roman emperor, it was about people believing that Jesus was not mere flesh and blood, it was about people believing that Jesus was God.
Georg IMO you do a terrible job sticking with scripture, I see a horrible pattern when I read your posts. Your in love with your own ideas that you have formed from scripture. You stretch things way to far.
You said, “The due time for this man to be revealed was, when Napoleon exposed him as a fraud, showing the world that this man had no real power at all; people did not have to fear him,” from quoting this scripture,” 2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”
Scripture says however that in due time Jesus Christ will reveal the lawless one.
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
What I find so absurd is that you have one disgusting man Napoleon, a lawless man himself, being the hero that reveals another lawless man? I haven't read up recently about my history of Napoleon but from what I can remember, I don't think he ruled with any greater righteousness then the Pope.
Your the one Georg IMO that completely rejects scripture. You seem to gloss over it, not paying any attention to details which then conveniently open scriptures up for you to solve mysteries that aren't there. Professing to be wise, IMO your teachings are foolish.
Georg, you said that Gene's understanding of the lawless one was an idea, and you argue that it is a person. That is interesting to me because, from what I see Gene say, it is in fact a person. The man of sin, Jesus the god, does not really exist, but that's not the point, the point is that millions of people believe that he does.
You on the other hand seem to teach that it is not a person but rather a title and position of many people over a span of many many years.
2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
Scripture is talking about ONE person, one man of sin, one man of perdition, not many people over a long period of time with the same position and title.
Georg, your ideas just don't measure up with what the scriptures say. I think you'd be better off just erasing everything you think you know and rereading the bible with a fresh mind, with no preconceived ideas or remembrance of any doctrines.
Jodi……….Thanks sis, the man of Sin is (the LIE) that Jesus is a GOD. Those who have been deluded by GOD because they recieve not the love of (TRUTH) will and do believe (the LIE). John plainly said, as you brought out, if we do (not) see Jesus as a flesh being , (LIKE A GOD WOULD BE VIEW AS) That this (IS) the Spirit of Anti-Christ. Jesus being presented as a GOD and Jesus will himself abolish this false teaching (TRINITY) (the LIE) taught by all Apostate Churches, by the breathe of His own mouth (his words) at his return. How blessed it is to be allowed to understand these things sis.
Jodi, you do an excellent job of posting with many, many, scriptures to support what you are saying, don't get discouraged, remember we are told to use our talents given us, Throw out the words like sowing seed, let them fall where ever they may sis. Those who have ears to hear and eyes to see, will. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Jodi……………………………gene
To All…………….I have brought this forward again , because i believe it is very important to understand by all. THERE IS NO (REAL) MAN ON EARTH THAT IS THE MAN OF SIN, IT IS A (LIE) TAUGHT BY THE APOSTATE CHURCHES THAT JESUS IS A (GOD). This LIE creates the image of the man of sin, A LIE which Jesus will abolish by his own mouth at his return, You can recognize any apostate church by this, if they teach Jesus as a (GOD) they are anti-Christ and this Spirit (intellect) is the spirit of anti-Christ John spoke of. All who do not believe Jesus came into existence as a purely human (non preexistence) human being are not only anti-Christs but anti -GOD also. Because they have broken His commandment “thou shalt have (NO) other God besides me”. Jesus is a Man and is from human stock he is one of Us exactly as we are in every way, He is son of MAN, and is son of God the same way we are also sons of God. Jesus said himself “for thou art the ONLY true GOD”, all who believe and teach contrary to this are of the fallen apostate Churches. IMO
peace and love to you all…………………………….gene
To all: One must be born of Spirit to understand the Kingdom of God. Jesus was born of the word of God. God is spirit. The words of God are spirit. God is everywhere, within and without. He only seems to come and go in the conscious awareness of the mind. Jesus accepted the words/spirit of God and became God/Man. Man alive with Gods spirit. If we accept the words of God from Jesus that are Gods spirit then we become God/Man or ONE with them. This is the Gospel taught by Jesus which creates the Kingdom of God or the ruling truth of God in each and every individual human being that will accept the Truth. There is no separation between God and man that I can see. Whether you are talking about Jesus or John Doe! I must say if Jesus wasn't God manifest in the earth he couldn't possibliy do the miracles he did. Who has opened blind eyes? Who has come back from death? Who has brought others back from death? The original reason I made Jesus lord of my life is because of the supernatural powers he displayed in the earth. He is God to me and tells me and whosoever will believe that they are ONE with he and God.I think we are supposed to be building up one another in this Truth not arguing over scripture details.The great picture I see painted within is ONENESS with all in Christ. May peace and love rule through all belivers,TK
Hi TK,
Of course it is folly to suggest God lives in unclean human vessels.
We must be washed in the blood of the Lamb or by the Word.Hey Nick: …”whasoever God has called clean, let no man call unclean…” We are washed by the blood of Jesus! We are righteous by faith. If one doesn't belive that he is righteous then he is unrighteous! By faith are we cleansed.The righteous shall live by faith. If you believe you are clean then God is dwelling in you. If you believe you are unjust, immoral, a sinner etc. then God is not dwelling within your mind. What you believe is in your mind. Truth or error! Our sin has been washed away. The Truth washes away all sin. God bless you, TK
Tim………I disagree with you saying Jesus is a man GOD, Jesus plainly said ” FOR THOU (NOT HIM) WAS THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD, and he also said “why call me good there is (ONLY) ONE that is good and that is GOD. While i do agree the spirit of GOD can indwell us as well as it did Jesus, that does not makes us a GOD nor did or does it make Jesus a GOD. You assumption that Jesus worked Miracles is wrong it was GOD performing those miracles not Jesus or anyone else, Because GOD can be in all and through all does not make the person He is in a True GOD. This can be very easily proved if you believe you are a GOD then go to you nearest Hospital and Heal everyone , and you soon will see if you are true GOD. The whole ideology, the man Jesus is a GOD is the LIE taught by the apostate churches and there following. God also said He gives (HIS) Glory to (NO) man. If you are going to teach something it must be in line with GOD'S Words taught in scripture. Your belief that a Man is A GOD in (Not) scriptural. I have had many miracles in my life but I never did any of them myself. There is (ONLY) ONE TRUE GOD as Jesus plainly said, and it was (NOT) him. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
To All………..All who believe there is more then ONE TRUE GOD, are Idolaters according to scripture. TO put that on Jesus is simply a LIE, and creates The Man of Sin. This false doctrine called the TRINITY will be abolished by Jesus' own word at his return. The LORD GOD said clearly”there is (NO) GOD apart from ME” and again I only am GOD and there is (NO) OTHER. He also said I (ALONE) created the Heaven s and Spread out the EARTH BY MYSELF> either you believe this or not, its your choice, it is clearly written. IMO
peace and love to all……………………….gene
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