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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 29 2007,10:50) Hi Gene ,
Show me where it says the man of sin is not a man but an image
and we can work from there.You have presented this teaching and should not be angry it is tested against the word of God surely?
Nick…what does (THE LIE) mean to you, that God would cause people who don't love truth to believe by sending them a dulision in order to believe it. And What does it mean This person taking his set IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD and being DESPLAYED as GOD mean to you, Look at the overall context of what is being said not just one little part, again you cant see the forest because of the trees. stand back and take an overall picture, do it with all your subjects and you might be amazed at what you will see. thanks …geneHi Gene,
You want us to rely on inference?
It is fine to speculate but you need to acknowledge that you are.
Please do not force your teachings if you cannot prove them by the standards required by scripture.Nick….again you are mistaken i have never forced you or anyone to take my view point I have said and still say this is (MY) ON THE MAN OF SIN DESCUSSION, the only one forcing people to take view points is you not me. And its you who doesn't fully back up your theology not me.
Nick….It's just what came into my mind a couple of years ago while i was reading the text in a Greek interlinear translation, the words seam to fall in place with Jesus being portrayed a Very God by trinitarians and the fact Jesus is sitting in the true temple of God now,and that he has been made out to be God which we know is a lie, it just all came to gether in my mind , is it true or not i don't know for sure but a lot of things do fit. Time will certinely tell….thank gene.
Nick….I think kenrch brought out some good points on this subject also and some of them went along with my thoughts on the subject.
I presented it on this wed site because most people here Know that Jesus is not God and understand the lie that say's he is.
thanks…geneNick… yes it does speak of a man i never said it didn't. what i said was its a false image of the Man Jesus Christ being portrayed as God that Makes up the Man of sin. Not a real man a false image which creates a false desplay of Jesus who is a man as a God. DO you see the Lie mentioned throught the text,It's not a real person it a lie about Jesus a man. try a little harder you might get what i was saying. thanks…gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 30 2007,14:12) Nick… yes it does speak of a man i never said it didn't. what i said was its a false image of the Man Jesus Christ being portrayed as God that Makes up the Man of sin. Not a real man a false image which creates a false desplay of Jesus who is a man as a God. DO you see the Lie mentioned throught the text,It's not a real person it a lie about Jesus a man. try a little harder you might get what i was saying. thanks…gene
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.The lawless one is he who teaches the lie.
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
Satan is the real teacher of the lie.
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
These are they that believe the lie.
2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
Because they love not the truth God allows them to believe the lie.
Jesus the Son of man is not God. Jesus with the Word is not the Father. BUT Jesus being one because the Word is in Him, that is the thoughts of the Father. The Son and the Father are ONE in thought or Spiritually.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Why does the Father call Jesus GOD? Because the SON has the very same thoughts as the Father, they are ONE. AS WE SHOULD BE!
Who are the children of God but those who have the Spirit of God.
IHN&L
Ken
Quote (kenrch @ July 31 2007,02:56) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 30 2007,14:12) Nick… yes it does speak of a man i never said it didn't. what i said was its a false image of the Man Jesus Christ being portrayed as God that Makes up the Man of sin. Not a real man a false image which creates a false desplay of Jesus who is a man as a God. DO you see the Lie mentioned throught the text,It's not a real person it a lie about Jesus a man. try a little harder you might get what i was saying. thanks…gene
2Th 2:8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.The lawless one is he who teaches the lie.
2Th 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
Satan is the real teacher of the lie.
2Th 2:10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
These are they that believe the lie.
2Th 2:11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,
Because they love not the truth God allows them to believe the lie.
Jesus the Son of man is not God. Jesus with the Word is not the Father. BUT Jesus being one because the Word is in Him, that is the thoughts of the Father. The Son and the Father are ONE in thought or Spiritually.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”
Why does the Father call Jesus GOD? Because the SON has the very same thoughts as the Father, they are ONE. AS WE SHOULD BE!
Who are the children of God but those who have the Spirit of God.
IHN&L
Ken
Kenrch….While a lawless one can be a person speaking a lie, the text does not put it that way. It implies the lawless one is (THE LIE), not the teacher of it.Satan is indeed the originator of the Lie. but he is not the lie he is teaching, the lie is about a person, not the person teaching it, even though the person teaching it is (A LIER).
2TH2:11 does not say so they may believe what is false, but say ” in order for them to believe (THE LIE). The article (THE) means it's not any lie but a particular lie there believing in.
you seem to think I am somehow belittleing Jesus, I am not
taking anythime away from Jesus that he himself is not going to take away at his return. And that will be the false image created by Satan that he is God.All the chrildern of God have God in them, but that does not make them God. Jesus said there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD and I don't think he was lying. To make another God of any kind is a act of IDOLATRY, there is only one God no other and while we or Jesus can be His child we can never be Him.
John ends one of his books after talking about the antichrist with little childern Keep yourselves from Idols, why?, because he Know it was going to be a matter of Idolatry that would infect the church, and it came in the form of a Lie about Jesus Himself. Satan Knows if he can get people to Beleve Jesus is a God, this would create Idolatry and God would reject them and God allows this because people did not believe His word that He is the ONLY GOD and there is NO OTHER GOD> so as a result He sends them a delusion in order for them to believe (THE LIE).
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and *with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image*. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
**Ok, there is the dragon and the beast, and the false prophet.
Then there is the beast and false prophet that are thrown into the lake of fire.
THEN after the melinnium, after Satan is deafeted for the last time, he is thrown into the lake of fire where the beast and false prophet are.
Ouestion: Where is the antichrist? Where is this person that Satan enters? Could the false prophet and the antichrist/man of sin, be the same person?
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.“The beast IS the eighth king AND is of the seven kings”.
We have NO mention of the antichrist, only the dragon (Satan, the false prophet, and the beast.
Rev. 17:11 Says “the beast is the eighth king, and is of the seven and goes to perdition”
The conclusion is that the beast, false prophet, and Satan are the same “system”.
When scripture states beast in Rev 17 it is speaking of the beast and all the beast contains…..the false prophet who is the antichrist and Satan, and the eighth king.
The beast and all in it (the system of things) will be thrown into the lake of fire.
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