The man of sin

[GeneBalthrop]

I would like every ones opinion of the MAN OF SIN, Who could this person be, i believe he is not a real person but is the false Image of Jesus created by false trinitarian teachings that takes the man Jesus Christ and changes him into very God himself. I would like to see a thread going through 2Thes2 looking at each part of what Paul was telling us.

some things to look at is
apostasy
The Lie
holding back
temple of God
to sit down as GOD
lying wonders
comming from the midst
destroyed by the breath of his mouth
mystery of iniquity or lawlessness

[michaels]

(me believe) he is real,he came before, all thru history even from the time of moses,he opposed and exalted himself above all that is called god,or that is worshiped.so that he as god sitteth in the temple of god ,showing himself that he is god,ex 23:20-23 i send an angle before you to keep you in the way,beware of him ,for he will not pardon your transgretions (the accuser),for my name is in him.verse 23:27,i will make all your enemies turn their backs unto thee.verse 33:20-23,and i will proclaim the name of the lord before you,thou shall see my back but my face you will not see,.well of course he couldent see the angles face,wile he proclaimed the name of the lord,god made him only able to show his back,oh how long have we all been decieved as soon as they got to the mount,god verbaly gave his commandments,told moses 3 times he would test him,right away they built a calf,so moses came down and sins,he said everyone murder your brother,had he forgoten gods audible words so quickly,then he went up the mount,and drew up plans for the tabernacle of molec,acts 7: 42-48 god said not to murder,not to make vain images,yet they were all over the tabernacle,they were worshiping the host of heaven,following that man of sin,isent it funny the way aaron the one who had sinned the most by makeing the calf therefor makeing everyone els sin,was chosen to be high prest,yet when he got the position it was just so he could be mocked,for he got all dressed up like a court jester,with bells on,because his god diddent know when he would be comeing that way he could hear him, was his god doing something wrong,and he dident want to be caught why the bells ,god knows all,and will not contrdict himself,is your god a liar ? mine is not, if your god cant lie,then who is your god,he said no graven images,he could not say build a temple full of graven images,and even if he did say to he could not go in,for it was built with mens hands,and what house could even hold an ounce of gods glory,none,me have much more to say about the man of sin but the time is short for the kingdom of heaven is at hand ,ask god the true god for he is one he shall tell you all things,dont look to any man for god is your teacher,yahshua and me love you,do not be decieved and ask god daily that he wont let you be,repent,for he is the truth never changes is not a liar,has no shadow of turning is the light that peerses the darkness,and the life that we so dearly seek after.

[michaels]

john 5:45there is one that accuseth you even moses in whome you trust,rev 12 :9-10 accuser of the brethren ,so why would god contend for the body of moses,that must be grace and love from the father even though moses fell in his pride,these are your people that you lead out of egipt,moses said no there yours god,but his pride rose up and he murderd them,many fall thru pride and eragance, me did to, thank god for his forgiveness,anyhow me would think moses repented for all his wrongs before he died,for his body was not taken,but why is he considerd the accuser hmmm

[michaels]

the begining is the end just look inn your churches they are suposably the house of god yet they are full of abominations vain images, flags that men give there pleage of aleigence to above god ,might as well bow to satan right in your church all god asked for was a pile of un hewn stones,there he would place his glorius name and lower himself to come down to sup with you,churches are of satan and his apostate movement if you go into a building made with mens hands you are worshiping satan and his images,not god you are supping with the man of sin,for he will do many wonders even to come as an angle of light,open your eyes that the vail may be removed,that you may see and hear from god for he loves you after all he sent his son yahshua for you,that you may see,and the devil came right after to steal away the seed killing jesus,hunting and killing as many disiples as he could,puting just small twists on the truth,that all would fall back into sin,yet god did not let all the thrth be taken that he may test you,me shouldent even have to point the man of sin out later in rome,still trying to stomp out the truth,for god will show you,the man of sin has appeard all thru history,do you think god flooded the whole earth for not,he wants those who truely love him so he tests us and he has aloud all these things for atime,that we can all make our choices if we are a son of satan or a son of god reapent for the kingdom of god is at hand ,go and sin no more

[michaels]

hi gene can you tell me why some posts get removed, who decides what to remove do they just remove any thing they disagree with ,god says his word will not go out void,but do me need to copy the posts god gives me for me thought what went on here would remain,for ever till the end yet some things have already been removed and me havent even been on here much more than a week how does this work,if me post truth who removes truth,is it because me dont list all the scriptures because me can me just figured any one on this site already knows there bible for most seem very studied in the thuth,even some with understanding,me dont understand the rules,are there any?do me need to speak more boldly than ever before,to get the truth out before the advisary steals it away,me know not for this is not my kingdom ,this one is run by the man of sin,until the end may yahshua lead you in all truth for he loves you ,god is over all in all thru all ,king of kings

[michaels]

does god need a temple that is a fake replica of things from heaven with fake cheribim when he has real ones that are beside him always ,no! satan does thoe so he can pretend to be god,he doesent even do a good job at pretending to be god ,he has always been no more than a thief and a liar,a murderer,from the begining,if gods chosen people followed god rather than so quickly getting decieved and just going along because it was the thing to do,they would have walked into that promised land the garden,for god said he would take care of it all ,they would not have had to fight and murder,for god said he would clear the land,but of course man couldent have that in thier pride,they tried to do it in self,following the evil ways of self,and the man of sin.

[GeneBalthrop]

michales….> i thimk the man of sin is not a real person at all but a false image of Jesus created by the idology of the trinitarian teachings which changes our concept of Jesus being a flesh and blood man to the Almight God Himself.
i think if we read 2 thes 2 very carefully we can see by what is said that it relates to a Lie about Jesus which he himself will destroy at his return.

[david]

I believe the man of sin or man of lawlessness is a class of people, specifically, the clergy class, the body of proud, ambitious clergymen of Christendom, who over the centuries have set themselves up as a law unto themselves.

“Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [Jehovah’s day of destruction of this wicked system] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed.”

Here Paul prophesied that apostasy would develop and a man of lawlessness would appear before this system’s end.

Paul stated in verse 7: “The mystery of this lawlessness is already at work.”

So in the first century, this lawless one had begun to manifest himself.

“The lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with . . . and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence.” (2 Thessalonians 2:8)

This “man” was evident in Paul’s day and would continue in existence until Jehovah destroyed him at this system’s end. So, this figurative “man” has existed for centuries.

“The lawless one’s presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents and with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved.” (2 Thessalonians 2:9, 10)

So Satan is the father and sustainer of the man of lawlessness. And just as Satan is opposed to Jehovah, His purposes, and His people, so is the man of lawlessness, whether he realizes it or not.

Paul further describes this lawless one, saying: “He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone who is called ‘god’ or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple of The God, publicly showing himself to be a god.” (2 Thessalonians 2:4) So Paul warns that Satan would raise up a lawless one, a false object of reverence, who would even put himself above God’s law.

History shows that those in this man of lawlessness class have displayed such pride and arrogance that they have actually dictated to rulers of the world. Under the pretext of the doctrine of ‘the divine right of kings,’ the clergy have claimed to be the essential intermediary between the rulers and God. They have crowned and dethroned kings and emperors and have been able to turn the masses for or against rulers.

To elevate themselves even more above the common people, this lawless class has adopted different garb, usually black. Further, they have adorned themselves with all kinds of imposing regalia, together with crowns, crosses, and miters. (Compare Matthew 23:5, 6.) But Jesus and his followers had no such garb; they dressed as did the common people. The clergy have also taken to themselves titles such as “Father,” “Holy Father,” “Reverend,” “Most Reverend,” “His Excellency,” and “His Eminence,” which add to their ‘lifting themselves over everyone.’ Yet, Jesus taught regarding religious titles: “Do not call anyone your father on earth.” (Matthew 23:9)

When Paul back in his day stated that the man of lawlessness had already begun his activity, he also said concerning those who reflect that one’s lawless attitude: “For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.”—2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

As early as the third century C.E., ordinary believers had been relegated to the second-class status of laity. The apostate man of lawlessness gradually assumed the reins of power. This power was solidified during the reign of the Roman emperor Constantine, especially after the Council of Nicaea in 325 C.E. Then Church and State became welded together. Thus, the man of lawlessness—the clergy of Christendom—became a centuries-long line of apostates in revolt against the true God, Jehovah. The laws and arrangements that they have followed are their own and not God’s.
–Watchtower, 1990, p 14.

[GeneBalthrop]

David ….some of your points i believe are right, the man of sin definetly came to full view at the Council of Nicaea, But i think this man of sin was a person. Because,

1…the definit article (the) is used meaning a paticular person not just any person.

2…. the definit article (the) is used concerning (THE LIE)
so it can't be any lie but a paticular lie.

3….. and who is setted in the timple of God now, is it not Jesus himself, and is he not being desplayed as God himself.
and don't almost all “Christians” worship him as God.

4….. this false teaching was be held back by the original apostles, but after their death it took root and emerged as the doctrine of the trinity .

5… for that reason i believe the man of sin is not a real person at all, But a Lie about a real person,Jesus himself
and when Jesus comes he will destroy the lie himself. That's why Paul used the term, “He will abolish it with the breath of his mouth, another word's, His words at his return. It's the Lie he will abolish. thank David….gene

[michaels]

to gene ,yahshua said the same things that god stated from the begining,in rev 1:11 and verse 18 read between i am alpha omega the first and the last i am he that liveth and was dead and behold i am alive for ever more,amen and have the keys of hades end death.was this jesus speaking,is he now one with god,or is me missing something, because me dont want to be decieved,for god owns most of these titles,but jesus liveth was dead and now is alive forevermore,wow me just read in 2 thes 2 ,for god will send them strong delusion that they should believe the lie that they all might be judged who believe not the truth, but had pleasure in un righteousness.so how can the name of jesus be above every name,is it because gods name is in the name,yahshua,me dont know any thing about a trinity for god has not shown me that,but who knows gods ways,to say jesus couldent be one with god,and does it even matter,for if we repent and sin no more,keeping his commandment,we have life ,god is still god,what will jesus have to judge you for if you sin no more,nothing! for the father has made him the judge but if he is one with god that makes god the judge,so dont worry god will judge all who have sin. if jesus is not god and we worship him,then we are in sin,so this would be aposticy,for we should worship god,but the real aposticy taught today,is grace,that you dont have to keep any of gods laws anymore,the ones paul taught,hmmm and how many worship paul,for they say if they sin they dont need repent for they have garenteed salvation ,for they say there flesh witch is dead sins but there spirit is pure and holy made righteous thru crists blood ,they say to live by the spirit,yet they go on in there sins with no regard for god,for they have there sweet jesus,what spirit is this ,the man of sin again ? 1 john chapter 2 ,,do they even know god? who is your god?

[GeneBalthrop]

michael…..> In my opinion Jesus is not God, if he was. why did he say, thou art the (only true God), and also i am going to my God and Your God my Father and Your Father.
Jesus never claimed to be God. There is only one God.
Jesus did his will and so must we.

[michaels]

so would you say god glorified jesus and gave him these titles to use for himself now that he is back in the father,for he came out from the father,so did we,and the righteouss will return in unto him,we are all part of him,the one god,the begining and the end,how did we ever forget him,for he is the light yet we live in darkness,not even knowing him,yet thru it all jesus keeps loveing us that he might one daY LEAD US TO THE FATHER,LOOK TO HIM FOR EVERYTHING, JESUS MAY NOT BE GOD BUT HE IS IN GOD AND GOD IS IN HIM,THEY ARE ONE,do you think jesus to be just an orinary man,because he is yet he is not,for he was not born into sin like the rest of men,god his father haveing no sin ,being pure because he is pure had a son not born into sin,so he never left the father like the rest of us,for he never sinned,so the fathers preasence never left him exept when he died for us and took on the sin of the world ,then because god cant bear the preasence of sin he left jesus for a short time that must have seemed like an eternity to jesus ,never before being without the father,then god brout him back into himself,and jesus is the only one who never left the father for self,jesus only left for me and you,that he could die for us,if he hadent left god by takeing our sin he would still be in god ,a part of the one god,when he left for us god took him right back for he dident leave out of selfishness,but for us,god restored him back into him self ,and yes he is god in god thru god they are one and want to be one with us for we came out from him.

[NickHassan]

Hi m,
Mary was his real mother and she was of sinful flesh-unless you choose the catholic answer to this problem-that she too was perfect and it was an IMMACULATE CONCEPTION.
It is amazing how far men will go to try to justify their doctrines.

[michaels]

jesus is not stealing the glory from god for god sent him that we may have life,god is the one who glorified jesus in himself,still one god,gods spirit is god,no trinity,that me know of ,the spirit of god is god,still no trinity only one god,only one god to worship,yet jesus is in god part of god and worthy of worship and praise,when you praise yahshua you are praiseing god for his name is in him, so you are praising god we can thank jesus and praise god,for god is worthy of all glory and praise,but who are we to tell the father he cant glorify jesus with praise.still one god being praised for jesus is one with the father.

[IM4Truth]

Hello Gene

All the Apostles thought that Jesus would return in their lifetime, at first. What Paul is telling his church is actually a prophecy. He says, not only is Christ not returning soon, but there would be a falling away from the truth first. And, it would be this falling away, that would identify him as the man of perdition, that man of sin, as Antichrist, who caused that falling away.
It has been estimated that Antichrist is responsible for the death of 50 million people, saints, over the period of his reign, 1260 years. No telling how many fell away from the truth for fear of torture and death.
False teachers, Antichrists, had already infiltrated the churches during the time of the Apostles, Gal. 1:6-9, but the one who was holding him, Antichrist, back, were not the Apostles. Antichrist desired to become “Pontifex Maximus”, Chief religious Ruler. There was a problem with that, it was a title of the Roman Emperor, and the Emperor would not share that title with any one, nor did any one dared to claim it while the Emperor was still around.
In 565 A.D. Justinian died, he was the last Emperor of the east and the west; now he who was holding him back was taken out of the way. And the Pope of Rome was more than ready to take his place; in fact, it is the Pope who became the image of the Beast/Rome. Guess who calls himself “Pontifex Maximus” today?
Constantine had stopped the persecution of the Christians in 313 A.D., and did in fact made Christianity the religion of his empire in 324 A.D., and it still is, the “Roman Universal Church”.
It was Constantine who in 321 A.D. changed worshipping on Sabbath to Sunday.
And in 325 A.D. presided over the first Ecumenical Council at Nicea. with over 300 Bishops present, the trinity doctrine was adopted; it was also decided that the commemorating of Christs death no longer be kept, enforced by death, instead the resurrection would be celebrated on Sunday.
All these changes and more over the Centuries; the Mass sacrifice, the confessing of once sins to a priest, are the doctrines of Antichrist.
There is no other Antichrist coming, there is no greater tribulation to come, than the one the saints did already went through, thank God for that; and there is no rapture, at least not the kind we have been hearing about.

Bless you all

[michaels]

mary was born into sin but she,follewed god and turned from sin thru repentance and god will forgive who he will if they mean it from there heart,for god could not go near mary if she had sin for he can not abide in sin,so if mary was in sin there would be no jesus,for god would not be able to put his seed in mary unless she was pure at the time,therefore he was not born into si like me or you,but never left the father.

[942767]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 18 2007,13:33)

I would like every ones opinion of the MAN OF SIN, Who could this person be, i believe he is not a real person but is the false Image of Jesus created by false trinitarian teachings that takes the man Jesus Christ and changes him into very God himself. I would like to see a thread going through 2Thes2 looking at each part of what Paul was telling us. some things to look at is apostasy The Lie holding back temple of God to sit down as GOD lying wonders comming from the midst destroyed by the breath of his mouth mystery of iniquity or lawlessness

Hi Gene:

I would like to point out the scripture states “man of sin”.  It does not say men of sin.  Also,

Rev.13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The scripture states “shall worship HIM”.

Therefore, I do believe that this is an individual as opposed to a group of indviduals.  

My understanding based on these scriptures is that all that are alive at the time that the Anti-Christ comes on the scene will be gathered in either of two bodies.  They will be in the body of Christ or the body of the Anti-Christ.

Those who are alive at the coming of the Lord Jesus for the body of Christ who have worshipped the Anti-Christ will be judged by the seven last plagues.

[GeneBalthrop]

iam4truth…..> there are several points that need to be concidered with the 2thes2 text, one Paul used specific language in this prophesy.
one the man of sin was a person that sit's in the temple of God being desplayed as very God . who is sitting in the timple of God now, and Paul did not mean a fake temple but the real temple of God. Is it not Jesus and is he not being desplayed as very God Himself by all Catholics and prodastent Faiths today which we know are repersentives of false “christanity”..and what is their main teaching , is it not that Jesus is very God. Go to one of their services and thats all you hear is about Jesus and God the Father is hardly ever mentioned.

another point is Paul used the definit article (the) the man of sin that means it is a paticular man not any man, and he was to be displayed as GOD HIMSELF and this IMAGE of Jesus being a God was not brought about by Jesus or the apostles.

and another point is what ever this was it was a lie no a person and it is said that GOD would send a Delusion in order for them to believe (THE LIE) not any lie but a paticular Lie.

thats why Jesus will destroy it(THE LIE) at his comming by the breath of His mouth, in other words, with his own words when he comes.

this lie is the creation of another God which is exactly what the apostased or fallen church has done, it's not a real person it's a lie about Jesus which created another God and is lawless and creates an act of Idolatry, remember John ended that letter where he mentioned the antichrist by sayinf “little children keep yourselves from Idols, John know it was going to be idolatry that would infect the church.

thanks……gene

[GeneBalthrop]

942767…..yes it's the man of sin i doint think i ever said it was men of sin.
Paul said he would come from the midest and the idology of Jesus did come up from the midest of the two religious systems of the Roman Empire the Airus teachings and
Anthenaus teaching Arius said Jesus was not a God and he was a Created being, while Anthenaus Jesus was Fully God and introduced the word (homoousious) GOD from GOD, and when Emperor Constantine agreed to it and made “Christanty” the sate relegion the idology of Jesus being very GOD became established. and that when the man of sin was fully realized as a “christain doctrine” this was (THE LIE) thatn Jesus will destroy at his return, thats why i believe the Man of Sin is not a real person but a lie about Jesus Himself, think about it, it fits.,,thank….gene

[michaels]

how can everyone from the foundationof the world worship him ,unless he is in all times from the foundation till the end,and yes one person thats been here from the foundation of the world,and is still hear today,and they followed after the beast.

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