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Ed,
What context are you using to reach that conclusion since you are stating a definite on what Paul meant by his words and not just stating that the meaning you derive from the passage is true.
Hi Ed:
I am not sure that I do agree with that statement:
This is what I believe is meant:
Trying to obey the Law without the Spirit of God dwelling within will kill because it will bring condemnation since you cannot obey the Law without sin, and even with the Spirit of God dwelling within us, we still fall short of perfect obedience, and without the blood of Christ, we could not stay in the Spirit. Salvation is by grace without the sacrifice of our Lord we could not be saved.
1 John 5
10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Love in Christ,
MartyIt’s the letter of the law that kills,
but it’s the spirit of the law gives life.Ed,
What context are you using to reach that conclusion since you are stating a definite on what Paul meant by his words and not just stating that the meaning you derive from the passage is true.
HI Kerwin,
“for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.” (2 Cor 3:6)
It’s the letter of the law that kills,
when the commandment came I died (Romans 7:9)but it’s the spirit of the law gives life.
the commandment was ordained to life (Romans 7:10)Go back and reRead 2Cor 3:6-11 and then tell me that it’s not referring to “THE LAW”
_______________
God bless
ED JDear Miia, ask the many converts to Mormonism if they find inspiration in the book of Mormon.Joseph Smith knew the bible well and his stories are inspired by bible stories, themes and morals.
Of course if you approach it with the presumed hateful notion that it’s heretical you won’t find any inspiration in it but only ire.
Can you read a book by Benny Hinn,Joyce Meyer,or Rick Joyner and find inspiration? even if you don’t agree with all they may say? take the same approach to the book of Mormon. You don’t have to become a Mormon to do so.
Dear Marty,
Yes God did use heretics according to this site to approve of the Christian bible .Have you heard of St Athanasius? the great trinitarian of which doctrine this site despises. And examine the council that finally approved of our New Testament;they were orthodox trinitarians, and or catholics which most on this site despise. Many trinitarian protestants despise their rituals and dogma even. And yet all the fundamentalists worship the bible or books they approved to be God’s word. Did God really approve of this? just because men of all sort of Christian belief say so?
And Marty I presume you must be a charismatic by claiming that God sends servants to preach his true word followed by signs. So if signs follow that must be the”true word”? So whatever the preacher says is the real word of God if signs follow? Did not the Jesus in Matthew condemn some who said we did many wonderful works and miracles in your name but he claims he never knew them and calls them workers of iniquity. The scientologists claim many signs and miraculous conversions as others of other religions have too. So miraculous claims prove nothing except maybe faith of any sort can produce “miracles”.
Hi AndrewAD:
Dear Marty,
Yes God did use heretics according to this site to approve of the Christian bible .Have you heard of St Athanasius? the great trinitarian of which doctrine this site despises. And examine the council that finally approved of our New Testament;they were orthodox trinitarians, and or catholics which most on this site despise. Many trinitarian protestants despise their rituals and dogma even. And yet all the fundamentalists worship the bible or books they approved to be God’s word. Did God really approve of this? just because men of all sort of Christian belief say so?
And Marty I presume you must be a charismatic by claiming that God sends servants to preach his true word followed by signs. So if signs follow that must be the”true word”? So whatever the preacher says is the real word of God if signs follow? Did not the Jesus in Matthew condemn some who said we did many wonderful works and miracles in your name but he claims he never knew them and calls them workers of iniquity. The scientologists claim many signs and miraculous conversions as others of other religions have too. So miraculous claims prove nothing except maybe faith of any sort can produce “miracles”.
My Comments:
Just because men are preaching and teaching that which they think to be the Word of God does not mean that God is using them. If they are heretics, as you say, why would God send them to handle His Word and mislead people. When I was first saved, I was full of zeal and thought that I go out like an Apostle and save the world, but God stopped me from doing because I was not ready to teach others. One cannot teach others unless one is first taught himself. God may have allowed to do what they did, and caused good to come out of what they did, and so, yes maybe he did use them in this way. He allowed Nebuchadnezzar to take Israel captive in the Babylonian captivity in order to discipline them. Or he allowed Joseph to be sold into slavery because He fore-saw the end result.
Jesus warns of false prophets that come to you in sheep’s clothing, and God says the following about those so called prophets that were in opposition to Jeremiah’s prophecy.
Jeremiah 23:21 I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied.
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
He who is called the false prophet of the the Latter days will make fire come down from the sky, and so yes, false prophets can do miracles, but they are delusions, like those that a magician can do. They are not real.
When God confirms His Word, the miracles are real, they are not delusions. He confirmed the Word of Jesus and the Apostles. But also, Jesus states that we will know his disciples:
John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
John 9:
25 He answered and said, Whether he be a sinner or no, I know not: one thing I know, that, whereas I was blind, now I see.
26 Then said they to him again, What did he to thee? how opened he thine eyes?
27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?
28 Then they reviled him, and said, Thou art his disciple; but we are Moses’ disciples.
29 We know that God spake unto Moses: as for this fellow, we know not from whence he is.
30 The man answered and said unto them, Why herein is a marvellous thing, that ye know not from whence he is, and yet he hath opened mine eyes.
31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.
32 Since the world began was it not heard that any man opened the eyes of one that was born blind.
33 If this man were not of God, he could do nothing.
By Charismatic, I assume that you mean that I may believe the “gifts of the Spirit” including the “gift of tongues”, and if that is what you mean, the answer is yes, and I believe in the “five fold ministry” of Apostles, Pastors, Evangelists. prophets, and teachers.
Love in Christ,
Marty</div>
Dear Miia, ask the many converts to Mormonism if they find inspiration in the book of Mormon.Joseph Smith knew the bible well and his stories are inspired by bible stories, themes and morals.
Of course if you approach it with the presumed hateful notion that it’s heretical you won’t find any inspiration in it but only ire.
Can you read a book by Benny Hinn,Joyce Meyer,or Rick Joyner and find inspiration? even if you don’t agree with all they may say? take the same approach to the book of Mormon. You don’t have to become a Mormon to do so.
Yes ok. I will take you up on that challenge.
Marty, Ed, regarding posts on p.3,
Could we forget what Paul meant (which is in itself ‘studying the letter’).
As I said, do we follow the letter, (“you search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life”) or do we follow the Spirit (God) whom leads us to His word? (“and it is they that bear witness about me, yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.”)
As a student, I can research people (Joseph Stalin atm), and write essays all about them. But I don’t know them personally. I only know whatever I have studied or observed (the letter). To know Stalin personally, I would have to do more than that.
‘And this is eternal life, that they may ‘know’ you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent’. (JWs falsely render that as ‘take in knowledge of you’… wrong wrong, wrong.)
God can pick out one sentence for you alone, just one sentence, context unnecessary. Do you believe that, or do you not?
Dear Miia,
I’m really not challenging you,but do appreciate your understanding.You may find no inspiration in it if you try reading it. I started but never read it all.It is much longer than the NT. I found many parts humorous and laughed out loud but I can also see how parts can be inspiring just like our Bible.
Hi Mia:
And so, if you were introduced to Stalin, would you then know him? And so, what does Jesus mean when he says: “this is eternal life that you might know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent? When I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, God revealed to me that he is a reality, and that His testimony regarding His uniquely begotten Son was and is true, but I did not really know either one of them until I spent some time in the Word of God and in worship and prayer, and applying the Word in my daily life,
As you stated, the Holy Spirit will lead you to all truths, but it takes time. The scriptures state that we should study to show ourselves approved unto God rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
And maybe the JWs do not understand because they do not have the Spirit of God.
And so, to pick one verse of scripture for you alone and you to totally understand it without the context, I would have to say no.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Mia:
I also have come to know Him in that He has corrected me many a time. And I know that He means what he says and says what He means.
Dear Marty,
You say”Just because men are preaching and teaching that which they think to be the Word of God does not mean that God is using them. If they are heretics, as you say, why would God send them to handle His Word and mislead people.”? That is a good question and don’t you realize that is what goes on constantly. Is a god sending out all these so called modern day apostles? they deceive you to get you to follow them and earn a living by mostly guilt trip tactics, fear mongering,scripture twisting and outright lies. And of course their deceptive spiritual gifts.
I was involved in the charismatic movement for many years I’m ashamed to say. Oh they can quote many verses,brainwash, and enslave you like any other cult. Oh did you receive some great prophecy? I did too and had the zeal to save the world also. I understand just where you are.Did some”word from God” resonate with you just like only God could know that about me? It happened to me too and it’s all of men. Your local psychic/fortune teller can do the same thing. I’m not wanting to discourage you even more but in the long run I know now that for me it was best to escape the deception and get far away from it.
I did some preaching and prophesying over others too and many thought I was a gift from God but the more I got into it the more I realized I had to be dishonest with myself and others to continue. You learn all the catch phrases and it’s the art of manipulation that makes you successful.I’m not saying all these charismatics are deliberately dishonest but those who are not are self deceived.
Hi AndrewAD:
Dear Marty,
You say”Just because men are preaching and teaching that which they think to be the Word of God does not mean that God is using them. If they are heretics, as you say, why would God send them to handle His Word and mislead people.”? That is a good question and don’t you realize that is what goes on constantly. Is a god sending out all these so called modern day apostles? they deceive you to get you to follow them and earn a living by mostly guilt trip tactics, fear mongering,scripture twisting and outright lies. And of course their deceptive spiritual gifts.
And so, there is no need for anyone to be deceived by those who practice those things which you mention in the above, is there? The Lord Jesus has warned us about false prophets, and he has told us how to recognize his true disciples.
I am not involved in any Charismatic movement. God has shown me that He will bring the church into unity through me, and for now He has told me to go to those in authority in the so called “Orthodox church” when they teach something that I understand differently and give them my understanding, not with the attitude that I am right and they are wrong, hoping that we can discuss or differences, and if we cannot agree after this, hoping that they will agree to join in prayer asking God to bring us into unity by showing us what He meant by the scriptures in question. But what I have found is that they are set in their doctrines, and will not discuss those doctrines that they call he major doctrines of the church, such as the “Trinty”.
As part of my morning prayer every day, I ask God to correct me if I am teaching anything that is not His Word or doing anything that is not His will, and I know that He hears my prayer. He has corrected me many a time.
God has shown me that He will anoint me in a position of authority, and so I am waiting on Him to do this. I will not put myself in any position of authority without His anointing. Unless He confirms what I am teaching, those in authority in the so called “Orthodox church will not believe me. He said that He would bring the church into unity through me. I cannot do it. All I can do is to life my life as an example before them, and to give them my understanding of the Word of God, and that I will do.
Any prophecy that comes to me from man will just be a confirmation of what God has already told me. He has spoken to me in dreams and visions, and even in an audible voice, but currently, he has only spoken to me through dreams.
Love in Christ,
MartyDear Marty,
So God told you that he will bring the church together in unity through you? That is truly amazing and I hope it happens. Do you think you might get an audience with the pope someday? Could that possibly be in the cards?
And so, if you were introduced to Stalin, would you then know him?
Marty,
If I were introduced to Stalin, it would take more than just meeting him. I would have to communicate chiefly by asking questions and listening attentively. I would have to put myself in his shoes and see things from his perspective. That’s a beginning.
And so, what does Jesus mean when he says: “this is eternal life that you might know the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom He has sent?
That we know the Father and Jesus Christ (which is more than just simply learning about them).
Acts 13.22: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart. He will do everything I want him to do.’
As you stated, the Holy Spirit will lead you to all truths, but it takes time.
Indeed.
But, why do you think we have so much error and disunity within Christianity?
I believe that the Holy Spirit calls or chooses some people, and leads them into ‘truth’. However, why not ‘ALL truth”? Why so many errors? The answer I believe is Sin, or worldly distractions. Thus we have so many people with part truth/ part error. Let me guess that every person on this board and all over the net believe they have ALL truth. Really? Could they be wrong in some things. Could YOU be wrong in some things? Could I be wrong in some things? Of course!
The scriptures state that we should study to show ourselves approved unto God rightly dividing the Word of Truth.
As led by the Holy Spirit only I believe. For example, if a person told you to go and read such and such a book in scripture and you did, who is leading who?
And so, to pick one verse of scripture for you alone and you to totally understand it without the context, I would have to say no.
Marty, Really?
So, if you asked God a question, and you did not really know the bible, and God PUT a verse NUMBER and title in your head, and you rose and read, and that answered your particular question exactly to the point, would you not be amazed, especially if it happened all the time? Can God not communicate to us in that way?
Hi Mia:
I also have come to know Him in that He has corrected me many a time. And I know that He means what he says and says what He means.
Yes.
Could I be wrong in some things? Of course!
Hi miia,
But not in the part where you believe God is going to destroy the Earth – right?
But not in the part where Marty believes God is going to Rapture him out – right?
Trying to make spiritual meanings to mean physical things is where the errors beginToo bad you are both blind to see this simple truth.
________________
God bless
Ed J
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