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“some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest,
as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.” (2 Peter 3:16)Ed, I’m just going to ignore your harassment.
Pity you can not just get over being shown that the numbers in BD’s book and your answer were meaningless, and that Jesus’ words were all that remained.
“Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.” Matthew 24.35
This just shows that men of different opinions about God wrote the books of the bible and men that we call heretics were the ones that approved which books would be in it. Could not God have provided a better example than that and just magically dropped it from heaven written on an asteroid or something?
Dear Andrew,
The Spirit leads us what to read, unlike books page one to the end. God speaks through prayer and then scripture when we and He is ready.
As I told Andrew there are those that do not like the Jesus that is testified in Scripture and so they create their own. Each of us is to beware less we do the same. “Seek first God’s righteousness and kingdom…”
Kerwin, but who would not like Jesus if they know him? The Jesus revealed in the Gospels is Jesus.
I disagree that it’s the letter of the law, Ed. I’ll tell you what I believe it means later.
Hi Ed.
The word used for “letter’ by Paul is ‘gramma’, and in its true context has nothing to do with the law.
1121: gramma: that which is drawn or written, i.e. a letter
Original Word: γράμμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: gramma
Phonetic Spelling: (gram’-mah)
Short Definition: a letter, writings, learning
Definition: a letter of the alphabet; collectively: written (revelation); a written document, a letter, an epistle, writings, literature, learning.“Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.” (matthew 18.3)
A child trusts, and a child learns. A child listens to his heavenly Father.
Miia,
Kerwin, but who would not like Jesus if they know him? The Jesus revealed in the Gospels is Jesus.
1) Those who do not love the light because their deeds are evil (John 3:19)
2) Most people for few will find the narrow gate. (Matthew 7:14)
That is why their is a multitude of false teachings telling people what their itching ears want to hear.
Hi,
What God requires is mercy and not sacrifice.
God offers a heart relationship with Him.
But the mind of man wants control.
Hi Mia:
I believe that the following scriptures will answer your question:
Romans 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
My comments:
And so, yes, we obey the commandments, but is not by the “the letter of the law”, “Don’t do this and don’t do that”, but when you love God and your neighbor you will obey the commandments through the love for them.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Mia:
Thought I would add the following scriptures to what I have written regarding this subject:
Romans 7:
The Law and Sin
7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 10 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 11 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 12 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.Life in the Spirit
8 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.[a] 2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,[c] he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. 6 For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. 7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.Joseph Smith had the right idea that a book dropped from heaven upon golden tablets should be reliable. I’m not saying the book of Mormon is that but I do give the man credit for all his work and he has built a great big Christian church.
And if God had to use heretics to approve of his varied man made book-the bible,then why is not the heretic Joseph Smith’s/or the angel Moroni’s book inspired too? Just read the book of Mormon and you can find inspiration by the spirit.
The “spirit” is just the great fallback or reason for everything and everyone’s varying religious beliefs.Everyone has their “spirit” which amounts to their own mind and opinion.
1) Those who do not love the light because their deeds are evil (John 3:19)
2) Most people for few will find the narrow gate. (Matthew 7:14)
That is why their is a multitude of false teachings telling people what their itching ears want to hear.
Kerwin yes so we can talk ABOUT Jesus till kingdom come, we can make colossal posts ABOUT Jesus, we can profess to being a Christian, we can even attend church. But do we really KNOW Him. Do we let our conversations be with him. Do we follow him and obey his commands, and that of his Father God. Jesus was the humble child of God who listened to, obeyed and trusted his Father. Have we got to that level yet? Do we live our lives for God or for ourselves. Do we search and search, or do we think we know all truth and can never be wrong. I guess these are just some of the questions we need to ask ourselves.
My comments:
And so, yes, we obey the commandments, but is not by the “the letter of the law”, “Don’t do this and don’t do that”, but when you love God and your neighbor you will obey the commandments through the love for them.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Marty.
Do you associate Paul’s use of the word ‘letter’ with law? Why would the law be in opposition to the Spirit if that were the case?
Perhaps Paul meant: Viewing scriptures without the Spirit, (i.e., being too… academic. Relying more on head knowledge than on the Spirit.)
Example, I used to read scriptures only as God led me to (which was daily). I would pray and God would lead me to scriptures. I had no true knowledge of scripture, and I would trust God as speaking to me directly through wherever he led me to in scripture (like a path or a way of conversation). However, later on I became the opposite. I either listened to a certain denomination’s understanding which meant books to study and trusting in man. Or afterward I used my own mind and thoughts (on forums) reading everything in context, and answering without the spirit. There is a difference, and the difference is obvious.
Jeremiah 17.
Thus says the Lord:
“Cursed is the man who trusts in man
and makes flesh his strength,a
whose heart turns away from the Lord.
He is like a shrub in the desert,
and shall not see any good come.
He shall dwell in the parched places of the wilderness,
in an uninhabited salt land. (“You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor?” Matt 5.13).“Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord,
whose trust is the Lord.
He is like a tree planted by water,
that sends out its roots by the stream,
and does not fear when heat comes,
for its leaves remain green,
and is not anxious in the year of drought,
for it does not cease to bear fruit.”Just read the book of Mormon and you can find inspiration by the spirit.
Andrew, you think so? Please tell more!
Miia.
It is possible to get to that level so some have done so but that is not so much an issue than for each of us to seek the truth through faith that Jesus is promised one of God.
Jesus told us “ask, seek, and knock” so it is up to us to do he instructs us.
Hi AndrewAD:
You say:
Joseph Smith had the right idea that a book dropped from heaven upon golden tablets should be reliable. I’m not saying the book of Mormon is that but I do give the man credit for all his work and he has built a great big Christian church.
And if God had to use heretics to approve of his varied man made book-the bible,then why is not the heretic Joseph Smith’s/or the angel Moroni’s book inspired too? Just read the book of Mormon and you can find inspiration by the spirit.
The “spirit” is just the great fallback or reason for everything and everyone’s varying religious beliefs.Everyone has their “spirit” which amounts to their own mind and opinion.
My Comments:
Apparently, you are unaware of the doctrines of the Mormon church which does claim to be a Christian church, but it is not. Jesus stated that “upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it”.
God does not use heretics to approve of his varied man made book, the bible, but when He sends his servant to preach and teach His Word, He will confirm it with miracles and signs and wonders following. If someone is not teaching His Word, he will not confirm it, otherwise he would be confirming something that he did not say. The biggest miracle is when a man’s life is transformed through the gospel of Jesus Christ.
It is true that everyone has his spirit, either the spirit of Christ, or the spirit of anti-Christ, and he will gather all of humanity to himself in one of these two bodies, the Body of Christ, or the body of Anti-Christ.
And so, if you read the book of Mormon and find inspiration by the spirit, maybe so, but not by God’s Spirit.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Mia:
You say:
Hi Marty.
Do you associate Paul’s use of the word ‘letter’ with law? Why would the law be in opposition to the Spirit if that were the case?
Perhaps Paul meant: Viewing scriptures without the Spirit, (i.e., being too… academic. Relying more on head knowledge than on the Spirit.)
Example, I used to read scriptures only as God led me to (which was daily). I would pray and God would lead me to scriptures. I had no true knowledge of scripture, and I would trust God as speaking to me directly through wherever he led me to in scripture (like a path or a way of conversation). However, later on I became the opposite. I either listened to a certain denomination’s understanding which meant books to study and trusting in man. Or afterward I used my own mind and thoughts (on forums) reading everything in context, and answering without the spirit. There is a difference, and the difference is obvious.
My Comments:
Yes, I do associate when Paul uses the statement “not of the letter but of the spirit” that by the “letter” he is speaking of the “Law of Moses, or the Ten Commandments”. The Law is not in opposition to the Spirit, but “trying to obey the Law without the Spirit of God dwelling within is impossible, and even with the Spirit of God dwelling within us, we still fall short of perfect obedience, and without the blood of Christ, we could not stay in the Spirit. Salvation is by grace without the sacrifice of our Lord we could not be saved.
The Apostle Paul states the following:
Romans 7:
12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! Nevertheless, in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it used what is good to bring about my death, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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