- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 09 2006,06:53) Hi Malcolm,
And those of the antichrist were said in 1 Jn to have come out of us[the saved]
Not all that are called Israel are Israel – many are called but few are chosen. I think in one place in the NT it says they came out from us because they were not OF us.Hi,
The sacrificial Lamb walked the earth and his blood was shed that all those who receive the forgiveness in him granted by God will be sprinkled with the blood of that sacrifice unto eternal life.Hi H,
I have pasted part of your post from another thread here because it relates to the death of the sacrificial Lamb of God. You have shown some beautiful scriptures relating to the shedding of his blood on our behalf that we can be forgiven.However while it was the Israelites who sprinkled the blood on the doorposts and the book and the hearers of the Word is is only God who can sprinkle us on the inside with the blood of the Lamb of God. He does this in response to our repentant appeal to Him for forgiveness in water Baptism.
1Peter 3.21
” 21(A)Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you–(B)not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a ©good conscience–through (D)the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”You said:
“Why do believers want to rob salvation of the blood that saves them? Do you not understand the importance of the blood. Without the blood, there would be not remission of sins. What is more important, water or blood? The church for too long has turned it's back on the blood of the lamb. I rebuke all who do this. It is time to change this. For the power is in the blood of the lamb.Heb. 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
Acts 20:28 Take heed, therefore, to yourselves, and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the assembly of the Lord and God which he purchased with his own blood.
Romans 3:25 whom God set forth to be an atoning sacrifice, through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God's forbearance;
Ephesians 1:7 in whom we have our redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off are made near in the blood of Christ.
Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by him, whether things on the earth, or things in the heavens, having made peace through the blood of his cross.
Hebrews 9:12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through his own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption.
Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh: (WEB KJV WEY ASV BBE DBY WBS YLT NAS RSV NIV)
Hebrews 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?Hebrews 12:24 to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better than that of Abel.
Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people through his own blood, suffered outside of the gate.
1 Peter 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, that you may obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with his blood: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1 Peter 1:19 but with precious blood, as of a faultless and pure lamb, the blood of Christ;
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ, his Son, cleanses us from all sin.
Revelation 7:14 I told him, “My lord, you know.” He said to me, “These are those who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb's blood.
Revelation 12:11 They overcame him because of the Lamb's blood, and because of the word of their testimony. They didn't love their life, even to death.”
Hi,
Was Christ the firstfruits of mankind, or was the lamb, according to the flesh, a new creation and a superior being not of dust origin?
If so how can he be able to represent us?
Surely a lamb selected for sacrifice is taken from among the flock ?Hi,
The sacrificial lamb is chosen from the flock. He exists to be able to be chosen. God is not the lamb of God. The Lamb is the Son of God chosen by God to be our sacrifice to restore our relationship with him. This glorious heavenly being had to empty himself of his abilities and his glory to partake of our lowly fleshly estate so he could represent the sheep.
The Lamb is not the one who chooses himself
and dies to satify his own demands for justice.Hi,
Christ is the Lamb of God slain for us. But he is also the high priest who takes the offering through the torn temple curtain on our behalf.
Mark 15:38
And the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom.
Hebrews 10:20
by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,One thing for sure though he was not the God to which he offered himself.
Hi guys,
A question that has been puzzling me is lately is this:
If Jesus is the Lamb of God who died for the sins of the world, if he was the one sent to fulfill all righteousness and the scriptures written of him; then why did Jesus die during Passover and not on the Day of Atonement?
The passover lamb was not a sin offering, guilt offering, peace offering, or any from of offering! It was in no way for the people's sin, but their protection – not once is sin mentioned in relation to this feast. Yet we see Paul, the Writer of Hebrews and John writing that Jesus died for the SIN of the world as the Passover/Pascal Lamb.
The Passover Lamb was not to be offered by the High Priest but by every person in the Land of Israel. This is one memorial feast where the High Priest was not solely involved apart from killing his own passover lamb. How does this work in Jesus case? It was to be one year old, how does this work out. Do we count sheep years and one year is as 33 years?
The Jewish people see the passover as a memorial day of Israel's coming out of Egypt by the Hand of God… and they people celebrate it as that; NOT a day of sacrifice for sin, or atonement for sin… that comes later in the year… on the Day of Atonement. Seventh Month. Not during the Jewish New Year.
The priest did not go into the most holy place on the Passover – He only did this on the Day of Atonement. What is the point of the temple being torn on that day… no one goes into the Holy of Holies during the Passover so this makes no senses. This verse in Mark 15:38 is as bizarre as is the Matthew account of “people coming back to life and walking into the city”… if that truly happened, why was there nothing told in external Biblical writings about this most incredible supernatural event. I dont think this has happened in the history of humanity… it is a remarkable NEWS FLASH – surely there would be something written in the annals of history. If the Jews wanted to hide this as we see supposed in Matthew's gospel that is fair enough, but surely the Romans would have had something written down of this momentous event which took place in their Empire.
To me this cover up makes no sense at all.
IF Jesus died for the sin of the world, then surely as High Priest/Lamb of God, who fulfilled all scripture, he should have died over Yom Kippur. That was the day of atonement which God set for the people of Israel. The day where the sin of Israel was forgiven and the High Priest entered the Most Holy Place. Was this not?
We call Jesus the Lamb, What about the Bull and the other scape goat… who where they?
Lastly the passover lamb was to be eaten and anything that was not eaten was to be burned… What is this burning supposed to symbolise. See how crazy it gets when you turn symbolism into a super spiritual meaning… Does Jesus have to burn in place of us too!!!
I do not know how it all works, but one thing i do know and that is… to completely fulfill something under the OT, then it must be done in the way God scripted out… or it is not a fulfillment. I am struggling to understand why God went to great lengths to let us know what and how to conduct worship… when to prepare the feasts and how to do them… but then not follow this to fulfill the old and usher in the new.
I guess you could suggest Egypt represents sin bondage, oppression, and a place where God's people were outside the promise, therefore Passover/Jesus' death on the cross was to get us out of Egypt/sin by the shedding of blood. But if Christ is to fulfill all Scripture then his death on the Cross, during the Passover, outside the holy place, by Roman soldiers makes no sense as the Passover Lamb, neither can we say it is a sacrifice for our sin because the image of the Passover lamb does not reflect this in any way.
Christ's death does not follow the outlines given by God through Moses.
Artizan007,
Good to see you again!
I am not sure if too many people on this forum are terribly interested in the question that you raise, as most prefer to “throw out the old in favor of the new”. However, I personally find your line of questioning very relevant, as I believe that the new testament is supposed to be a continuation of the faith that formally started with Abraham – not a complete re-write of everything that YHWH had ever instituted.
In that sense, I have come to understand the feasts as symbols of YHWH's plan. I certainly do not understand every nuance. In fact, I am still trying to get a good grasp of the basics, but this is how I would interpret the feasts as they relate to the Messiah:
Passover/Feast of Unleavened Bread – Messiah provides a covering for all those who place his blood on the doorpost of their hearts.
Feast of Weeks/Pentecost/First Fruits – Messiah is the first fruit of the harvest of souls.
Feast of Trumpets – The return of Messiah. (Note that in the Hebrew year, there is a long break between First Fruits and this feast.)
Day of Atonement – Messiah makes direct intercession for us with YHWH.
Feast of Tabernacles – 1000 year reign?
So, to answer your question, I think that the symbolism of Messiah as our passover lamb is not the whole story. The fall feasts, which include the Day of Atonement, have yet to be fulfilled.
These are my researched opinions, but I would certainly love to hear more from you and others.
Hey WhatisTrue,
Thanks for your reply.
Just wanting to know how the Feast of Tabernacles equates to the 1000 year reign of Christ?I do not see the idea of 1000 year reign mentioned anywhere but in Revelation 20. How does one build a biblical doctrine out of one passage, by one author. I cannot see this thought anywhere else in the Scriptures? But maybe I am overlooking something.
Any Ideas?
Artizan007,
As I said, I am still trying to grasp the basics. Personally, I need to do a lot more study in this area. I only offered the previous post as a potential explanation as to the significance of Yeshua as the Passover lamb.
You are right though. There are a lot of hard questions, without any obvious answers, in this subject area.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 15 2007,10:29) Hi A7,
Try Heb4 aligned with Ps 90
Hi Nick,I have read those versed, but don't know how this explains the 1000 year reign… Where did John get the idea of a thousand year reign. Where does it come from? We need two or three witnesses. Does any of the other prophets or disciples teach this doctrine.
John must have received it as a new revelation, because it does not seem to be spoken anywhere else by anyone else.
The closest I can find is Isaiah 65, but there is nothing about this interim 1000 year reign and in this new heaven and earth, people only live for a limited time and not forever.
Not even Jesus mentions this 1000 year reign, which is something I find a little strange. He only talks about a single return, not a return to reign for a thousand years, then another stint of trial as Satan is released from the abyss, then yet another return… this one being final I hope. So where does John get his stuff from.
Is the 1000 year reign a Jewish concept?
Any one know?
Hi a7,
Some thoughts.
The KINGDOM is throughout the NT revealed fully in the reign on earth.
It is of Christ till restored and put again under God[1Cor 15]
The WEEK of 1000 years is from Genesis though revealed later.
Prophets showed their hope was beyond the grave and beyond hades.
Sons of the resurrection are mentioned by Jesus and those yet 'alive'.
Imperishable heavenly bodies like to the man from heaven are shown[1cor 15]
Their being like to asexual angels, who do not usually die also.
The lion lying with the Lamb and the child in the asp's nest are of earth.
As you say Is 60 onwards and the end of Ezekiel mimics Revelation.Hi A7,
If there was no millenial reign then there would only be no sons of God, no grace, only one resurrection, and judgement would be only according to the works of Matt 25. It makes no sense and makes the fulfilled works of Jesus and the way he showed us unnecessary. Our hopes would be vain and we the most miserable of men as Paul pointed out.Quote (Artizan007 @ May 15 2007,23:59) John must have received it as a new revelation, because it does not seem to be spoken anywhere else by anyone else.
…
Not even Jesus mentions this 1000 year reign, which is something I find a little strange. He only talks about a single return, not a return to reign for a thousand years, then another stint of trial as Satan is released from the abyss, then yet another return… this one being final I hope. …
Yep! John indeed received a new revelation.
He received it from Jesus who received it from Almighty GOD.
Hence Jesus didn't mention it during his earthly ministry because Jesus did not receive this revelation until after his ascension i.e. …(Rev 1:1-2) The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John: 2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.
Now Artizan007, I think you have misunderstood something …
That is, there is solely ONE return.
Jesus returns to earth to inaugurate the Kingdom of GOD upon the earth; Jesus himself will reign from Jerusalem, whereby he will be enthroned on the throne of David.He is NOT going away again … there is NO 2nd return!
The release of satan for a little season [Rev 20.3,7] will happen whilst Christ is here upon the earth with the saints.
Christ isn't going away! The 1000 years in this context is a 1000 years without the influence or interruption of satan.
After the little season, satan will be cast into the lake of fire.
Then after the Great White Throne Judgement, and after the second death; all enemies including Death will be subdued; then 1 Cor 15.28.So again, the 1000 years is especially significant because satan will be bound and powerless!
Hi,
W said in another thread.
“Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, *yet without sin*.Do you think the writer of Hebrews would write he had no sin and then in the next chapter say he needed perfecting?
Heb 5:
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made *perfect*, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;He was tempted like we were and learned what it was to be a man and submit in obedience through his sufferings
“Perfect” Greek, ‘teleioo’ which means;
1) to make perfect, complete
a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
2) to complete (perfect)
a) add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
b) to be found perfect
3) to bring to the end (goal) proposed
4) to accomplish
a) bring to a close or fulfilment by event
1) of the prophecies of the scripturesHe carried out completely the will of the Father and fulfilled all the scriptures concerning himself so he could be a our Faithful High Priest after the order of Melchisedec. Jesus was the perfect sinless Lamb , the only perfecting he needed was the carrying out of the Fathers will.”
Did it write he had no sin or he did not sin?
He was tempted as we are. Temptation is from within. He overcame sin.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
