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Kerwin………1 Ti 2:14 And Adam was (NOT) decieved, but she being decieved was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she (women) shall be saved in (through) childbearing, if (they) (women) continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Kerwin, this is talking to women and them being save in or through childbearing, (Not) saved (BY) childbearing, it is said that a women greatest chance of death is in the berth process, she is closer to death then only time of her life. IMO
peace and love………………..gene
Nick………..daaaaaa, see what happen when you fail to use your GOD given sense>
peace and love………………….gene
Gene wrote:
Quote 1 Ti 2:14 And Adam was (NOT) deceived, but she being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she (women) shall be saved in (through) childbearing, if (they) (women) continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
So according to you Adam did not sin because he was deceived but he sinned as an act of defiance to God. That is certainly not the idea I get from scripture.
If your claim is true then Adam has “no sacrifice for sins left but only a fearful expectation of judgment and the raging of fire that will consume the enemies of God.” At least Eve still had the chance of salvation.
Hebrews 10:26-31(NIV) reads:
Quote If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Hi KW,
All sin is defiance of God and His law.
Adam had no law.Sin is not ascribed where there is no law.
Romans 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.I would not condemn Adam lest you do so to yourself.
Kerwin……….No you have taken me wrong , i Simply said Adam Knew what he was doing, now was he deliberately defining GOD willfully , No i don't think so, But Adam understood that taking to himself the Knowledge of good and evil would give him wisdom and make him more like GOD. Eve understood that before He did even if she was decieved into defying act.
I believe it all was in the plan and will of GOD in the first place. And scripture shows that both were blind because after the eat both of their eyes were opened, right< look the man has become as we are , to know good and evil. GOD never said He sinned here, in fact the first place scripture mentions sin was with Cain, who rose up and slue his brother Able, I believe that was the first real sin, While sin (entered) into the world through Adam it does not say Adam himself Sinned.
But Cain did and was forewarned by GOD before it happened, and after it did happen GOD Marked Him (the sinner), As the sinner. Cain both lied and murdered, Jesus even said that Satan or the Adversary was a murder and liar in the beginning and I believe this mark was the beginning of the adversarial spirit Jesus was referencing. So while sin entered the world (Through) Adam, it might not mean Adam sinned. How could Adam or EVE have sinned when theirs eye were blind. That would be like telling a baby they he sinned when he did not even know what sin as. This is just what (I) think i am not preaching it as some kind of doctrine. The article Chosenone posted is and excellent article covering this and i believe it is pretty much on. IMO
peace and love……………..gene
G,
You have quoted the lies of the serpent.
Should we?Adam was incapable of handing the information he gained from his folly as his reactions showed.
Nick…….where does it say the serpent lied to her, “for God does know that you shall be as he is knowing good and evil, and God said “Look the man has become as we are knowing good and evil”. So if GOD said they became as we are then where is the lie. That was not the lie, the lie was , You shall not surely die, that was the LIE. The women told the serpent that GOD said in the (DAY) we eat we shall surely die, now many say they did not die (in the day they ate it) but they fail to realize that a thousand years is as a day with GOD , so they did die in the day they ate in GOD'S timing. And all after have died in the day they eat, no one has lived over a thousand years,. That was the LIE not that they shall become like GOD Knowing good and evil.
Nick………your accusations are toward me are EVIL and Wicked, my GOD reward you according to you foolishness. Till you learn to watch your mouth.
gene
Quite so G,
Sorry.
He was alike to God in understanding good and evil.
But he was unable to cope with the information and graceless so could not use itQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2009,04:47) Hi KW,
All sin is defiance of God and His law.
Adam had no law.Sin is not ascribed where there is no law.
Romans 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.I would not condemn Adam lest you do so to yourself.
Pardon me,I distinctly remember God telling Adam and not Eve that he was not to eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. That is a law and so at least one law existed.
It is not my doctrine that condemns Adam but what Gene has interpreted a certain scripture to say when measured according to the standards but forth in Hebrews. I do not teach Adam was not deceived but rather he was not deceived by Satan but was instead deceived through and by Eve.
Gene wrote:
Quote No you have taken me wrong , i Simply said Adam Knew what he was doing, now was he deliberately defining GOD willfully ,
What you say sounds like you are contradicting yourself. Still if Adam were a slave to sin at the time I could see an explanation for what you wrote but that was not the case.
Instead of dealing with that conundrum we can instead look toward the passage from 1 Timothy and consider its purpose which was to argue women should not teach in the church or have authority over men. Now remembering that we can also remember it was a false teaching of Eve's that led Adam astray while Eve was deceived by the Serpent. Scripture also tells us that it was not Adam who sinned first but rather Eve and it was through and by her that Adam sinned.
We have to be careful not to be tricked by the letter of scripture but instead rely on the Spirit of God to interpret the words of scripture correctly.
Quote (Gene @ May 05 2009,11:32) Nick…….where does it say the serpent lied to her, “for God does know that you shall be as he is knowing good and evil, and God said “Look the man has become as we are knowing good and evil”. So if GOD said they became as we are then where is the lie. That was not the lie, the lie was , You shall not surely die, that was the LIE. The women told the serpent that GOD said in the (DAY) we eat we shall surely die, now many say they did not die (in the day they ate it) but they fail to realize that a thousand years is as a day with GOD , so they did die in the day they ate in GOD'S timing. And all after have died in the day they eat, no one has lived over a thousand years,. That was the LIE not that they shall become like GOD Knowing good and evil. Nick………your accusations are toward me are EVIL and Wicked, my GOD reward you according to you foolishness. Till you learn to watch your mouth.
gene
G,
The Devil was a liar from the beginning according to Jesus.John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.Eve was deceived.
1Tim2
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Gen3
1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Nick……….Indeed an adversarial spirit did lie to Eve , but i was addressing just one part of what it said, i should have been more clear about that. But i still believe that Adam and Eve did not necessarily Sin (deliberately) it was more of an (iniquity) type of sin , being in ignorance at the time, there eyes were not opened to good and evil till after they eat (took to themselves) of the fruit of the knowledge. I still believe the mark of a sinner was put on Cain, remember Cain was forewarned by GOD that sin was crouched at the door or his heart and he had to master it.. I believe that God know all along that Adam and Eve would eat from the tree, in fact i believe it was always in his plan. We need to ask ourselves why would GOD put the tree there in the first place, and it say GOD knows the end from the beginning then He also know Adam and Eve would eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Understanding good and evil is not in itself sin. Sin is to miss the Mark of GOD, as Cain did and he was Marked as such. In fact all have missed the Mark of GOD except Jesus, so if all have sinned that mist include Adam and Eve also, But with them i think it was the type of Sin (iniquity) that i was trying to bring out.The book of Genesis is full of symbolisms. Read the article Chosenone posted it explains a lot. IMO
peace and love………………………….gene
G,
That new knowledge forms the basis of conscience.
The Law then was given to help men follow conscience.
But the schoolteacher just revealed sin and did not enable.
Grace was the enabling answer and that came through Jesus.Nick……..not really following you, are you saying Grace enables us to sin? If so i disagree with that. Please explain what you are saying more in detail.
peace and love………………….gene
G,
The power to be an overcomer is by grace.
Jesus overcame and we follow him.
Grace comes through Jesus.
We must enter the door.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2009,11:39) G,
That new knowledge forms the basis of conscience.
The Law then was given to help men follow conscience.
Scripture states conscience convicted before “new knowledge.” Men had that conscience “apart from the law.”Rom 2:14 For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law.
Rom 2:15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse themHi S,
Yes the lawful behaviour of ignorant gentiles who were never under the written law proves the existence of the conscience law since Adam in all men.When I read in Gen.3 God told Eve because she has disobeyed God and ate of the fruit of the tree of good and evil
, that she will bear children in pain. Since we have 4 children, let me tell you, it hurts.
Also God commanded Adam and Eve not to eat of the Tree of good and evil. IMO It became Sin when they took of the fruit of good and evil.
Peace and Love Irene
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