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Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2011,08:25) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 24 2011,02:09) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 23 2011,07:08) Kerwin Quote God rules all his creation. His word rules those kingdoms, organizations, and individuals who seek his righteousness and so his kingdom. His Spirit rules all of those that live according to it and so have received it. if God rules all his creation ,why is it that Christ show us to pray for ;;Mt 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray:
“ ‘Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
Mt 6:10 your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.is this not seams to contradict you view
is rules = love ??Pierre
Pierre,It does not contradict my view as God’s rule in heaven is not the same as God’s rule on earth” as he suffers the presence of sin on earth. It will be when God finishes putting all things under the feet of Jesus.
Yes, Jesus is teaching us to petition God that a time when all things are united in love.
KerwinQuote It will be when God finishes putting all things under the feet of Jesus. 1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27 For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.lease check your statement ,you are confusing God and Christ
Pierre
Pierre,Quote Ephesians 1:22 King James Version (KJV)
22And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Quote Hebrews 2:8 King James Version (KJV)
8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
I reread my words and I stated just as these scriptures do, and that is that God is putting all things under Jesus' feet.
But when God is finished Jesus will turn all things over to God for the time that a king is required will be at an end.
Kerwin….. Heb 2:6-9……> But one in a certain place testified saying what is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visits him? 7….> Thou made him a little bower than the angles; thou crowned him with glory and honor, and did set him over the works of thy hands (mankind) 8……> Thou hast put all things in subjection under his fee (mankind's feet) For in that he put all in subjection under Him (mankind) he left nothing that is not put under Him (mankind) But (NOW) we see not (YET) all things put under Him (mankind) 9….> But (what doe we see (NOW) we see Jesus, who (just like us) was made a littler lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that by the grace of GOD should taste death for EVERY MAN>
Kerwin…….>God put all things under Man is what that is saying not Jesus at that point of that scripture, notice as it proceed it then goes in talking about Jesus later. Another words as it say we do not yet see all thing under (MAN) but what do we SEE? we see Jesus, a son of Man, like we are, who also was made a little lower then the Angels (like we are) Crowned with Glory and Honor. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2011,14:12) Kerwin….. Heb 2:6-9……> But one in a certain place testified saying what is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visits him? 7….> Thou made him a little bower than the angles; thou crowned him with glory and honor, and did set him over the works of thy hands (mankind) 8……> Thou hast put all things in subjection under his fee (mankind's feet) For in that he put all in subjection under Him (mankind) he left nothing that is not put under Him (mankind) But (NOW) we see not (YET) all things put under Him (mankind) 9….> But (what doe we see (NOW) we see Jesus, who (just like us) was made a littler lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that by the grace of GOD should taste death for EVERY MAN> Kerwin…….>God put all things under Man is what that is saying not Jesus at that point of that scripture, notice as it proceed it then goes in talking about Jesus later. Another words as it say we do not yet see all thing under (MAN) but what do we SEE? we see Jesus, a son of Man, like we are, who also was made a little lower then the Angels (like we are) Crowned with Glory and Honor. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Gene,Hebrews 6 is stating what is mankind that…
It applies to Jesus because he is human being and Paul is using it as a type to teach the rest of the quote to teach how Jesus was made king of everything in heaven and on earth.
The literal interpretation of the scripture is about mankind being put over all the creations on earth.
Two different interpretations of the same passage but both are true.
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2011,20:46) kerwin Quote But when God is finished and wen is that
Pierre
Pierre,After Judgement day which occurs after the end of the Messianic Age(1000 years) is the tome I believe it will be.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2011,00:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2011,14:12) Kerwin….. Heb 2:6-9……> But one in a certain place testified saying what is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visits him? 7….> Thou made him a little bower than the angles; thou crowned him with glory and honor, and did set him over the works of thy hands (mankind) 8……> Thou hast put all things in subjection under his fee (mankind's feet) For in that he put all in subjection under Him (mankind) he left nothing that is not put under Him (mankind) But (NOW) we see not (YET) all things put under Him (mankind) 9….> But (what doe we see (NOW) we see Jesus, who (just like us) was made a littler lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that by the grace of GOD should taste death for EVERY MAN> Kerwin…….>God put all things under Man is what that is saying not Jesus at that point of that scripture, notice as it proceed it then goes in talking about Jesus later. Another words as it say we do not yet see all thing under (MAN) but what do we SEE? we see Jesus, a son of Man, like we are, who also was made a little lower then the Angels (like we are) Crowned with Glory and Honor. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Gene,Hebrews 6 is stating what is mankind that…
It applies to Jesus because he is human being and Paul is using it as a type to teach the rest of the quote to teach how Jesus was made king of everything in heaven and on earth.
The literal interpretation of the scripture is about mankind being put over all the creations on earth.
Two different interpretations of the same passage but both are true.
Kerwin……..Wrong, it is all one statement about Mankind, Jesus being One of Mankind, who has now attained and received that Glory and Honor God has Planned for all MANKIND. Paul was giving us an example, giving us the Hope of what we also can attain to and showing it was in God's Plan for mankind in the very beginning. IMOQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2011,20:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2011,00:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2011,14:12) Kerwin….. Heb 2:6-9……> But one in a certain place testified saying what is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visits him? 7….> Thou made him a little bower than the angles; thou crowned him with glory and honor, and did set him over the works of thy hands (mankind) 8……> Thou hast put all things in subjection under his fee (mankind's feet) For in that he put all in subjection under Him (mankind) he left nothing that is not put under Him (mankind) But (NOW) we see not (YET) all things put under Him (mankind) 9….> But (what doe we see (NOW) we see Jesus, who (just like us) was made a littler lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that by the grace of GOD should taste death for EVERY MAN> Kerwin…….>God put all things under Man is what that is saying not Jesus at that point of that scripture, notice as it proceed it then goes in talking about Jesus later. Another words as it say we do not yet see all thing under (MAN) but what do we SEE? we see Jesus, a son of Man, like we are, who also was made a little lower then the Angels (like we are) Crowned with Glory and Honor. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Gene,Hebrews 6 is stating what is mankind that…
It applies to Jesus because he is human being and Paul is using it as a type to teach the rest of the quote to teach how Jesus was made king of everything in heaven and on earth.
The literal interpretation of the scripture is about mankind being put over all the creations on earth.
Two different interpretations of the same passage but both are true.
Kerwin……..Wrong, it is all one statement about Mankind, Jesus being One of Mankind, who has now attained and received that Glory and Honor God has Planned for all MANKIND. Paul was giving us an example, giving us the Hope of what we also can attain to and showing it was in God's Plan for mankind in the very beginning. IMO
Gene,I erred as the passage we are currently discussing comes from Hebrews 2 and not Hebrews 6.
The writer of Hebrews 2 is quoting Psalm 8:4-6 which is literally about the creation of mankind and God appointing him king of everything on earth as you can see by reading it in the context of the whole of Psalms 8. It is through this reign that Adam’s sin bound all the earthly creation was subject to corruption.
The writer of Hebrews 2 is simply applying that passage as a teaching to demonstrate why the world to come is not subject to angels, such as some claim Jesus to be. That is why he wrote:
Quote Hebrews 2
King James Version (KJV)5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
So Jesus was not created a angel, since an angel was not given the kingship of the world, but he instead was created a human being who was given that kingship as truest of humankind and he was later elevated to have kingship even over “the powers of this dark world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places”.
It is true that Jesus gives those that believe the power to overcome “the powers of this dark world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms” and this passage can be used to teach that but it is not
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2011,22:13) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2011,20:46) kerwin Quote But when God is finished and wen is that
Pierre
Pierre,After Judgement day which occurs after the end of the Messianic Age(1000 years) is the tome I believe it will be.
Kerwinis that your best guest ?
Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2011,09:23) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2011,22:13) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2011,20:46) kerwin Quote But when God is finished and wen is that
Pierre
Pierre,After Judgement day which occurs after the end of the Messianic Age(1000 years) is the tome I believe it will be.
Kerwinis that your best guest ?
It is my belief that is the time spoken of in this Scripture.
Quote Revelation 21
King James Version (KJV)6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 26 2011,04:29) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 25 2011,20:55) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2011,00:19) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 24 2011,14:12) Kerwin….. Heb 2:6-9……> But one in a certain place testified saying what is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visits him? 7….> Thou made him a little bower than the angles; thou crowned him with glory and honor, and did set him over the works of thy hands (mankind) 8……> Thou hast put all things in subjection under his fee (mankind's feet) For in that he put all in subjection under Him (mankind) he left nothing that is not put under Him (mankind) But (NOW) we see not (YET) all things put under Him (mankind) 9….> But (what doe we see (NOW) we see Jesus, who (just like us) was made a littler lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; that by the grace of GOD should taste death for EVERY MAN> Kerwin…….>God put all things under Man is what that is saying not Jesus at that point of that scripture, notice as it proceed it then goes in talking about Jesus later. Another words as it say we do not yet see all thing under (MAN) but what do we SEE? we see Jesus, a son of Man, like we are, who also was made a little lower then the Angels (like we are) Crowned with Glory and Honor. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Gene,Hebrews 6 is stating what is mankind that…
It applies to Jesus because he is human being and Paul is using it as a type to teach the rest of the quote to teach how Jesus was made king of everything in heaven and on earth.
The literal interpretation of the scripture is about mankind being put over all the creations on earth.
Two different interpretations of the same passage but both are true.
Kerwin……..Wrong, it is all one statement about Mankind, Jesus being One of Mankind, who has now attained and received that Glory and Honor God has Planned for all MANKIND. Paul was giving us an example, giving us the Hope of what we also can attain to and showing it was in God's Plan for mankind in the very beginning. IMO
Gene,I erred as the passage we are currently discussing comes from Hebrews 2 and not Hebrews 6.
The writer of Hebrews 2 is quoting Psalm 8:4-6 which is literally about the creation of mankind and God appointing him king of everything on earth as you can see by reading it in the context of the whole of Psalms 8. It is through this reign that Adam’s sin bound all the earthly creation was subject to corruption.
The writer of Hebrews 2 is simply applying that passage as a teaching to demonstrate why the world to come is not subject to angels, such as some claim Jesus to be. That is why he wrote:
Quote Hebrews 2
King James Version (KJV)5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.
So Jesus was not created a angel, since an angel was not given the kingship of the world, but he instead was created a human being who was given that kingship as truest of humankind and he was later elevated to have kingship even over “the powers of this dark world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places”.
It is true that Jesus gives those that believe the power to overcome “the powers of this dark world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms” and this passage can be used to teach that but it is not
Kerwin………….It is ALL about MANKIND and Jesus is Just One of Many He was the First to attain, But God has Placed all of mankind over his creation and crowned them with Glory and Honor, we do not see that happening (NOW) but what do we see Kerwin what we see is the First of Mankind to fulfill that statement of Glory and Honor that is Jesus but he is Just the First Not the only one who ever will. Jesus' accomplishment give us the rest of MANKIND that same Hope of Glory and Honor He has. IMOpeace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene
Gene: I do so agree with you. Christ “in us” is the hope of glory. Jesus is our lord and master but also our brother and first born of many. The spirit/life force/truth of God has come to us through Jesus. The words of God are the Kingdom of God, within each person. Spirit is within and without. Spirit is everywhere which is wonderful because there is no place anyone can be where God is not. Where the Kingdom is not. Where the fruit of the spirit is not. Its all personal, accepted within the mind/heart of those who accept and believe.
The earth and the fulness thereof was given to mankind through Adam. God is at “arms length” pertaining to the functions on the earth. That's why we need to pray. When we give God access to work on our behalf then it is so. If God were controlling the functions and movements of the earth there would be peace, love and joy. God would not have the mess man has created.
God now can come into those who accept and believe and express his love through any of his perfected creation that will allow God to rule. The truth is so wonderful sometimes I have a hard time typing way to fast. God bless you in everything you do and say my brother. These are my opinions, TKGene,
Quote Kerwin………….It is ALL about MANKIND and Jesus is Just One of Many He was the First to attain, But God has Placed all of mankind over his creation and crowned them with Glory and Honor, we do not see that happening (NOW) but what do we see Kerwin what we see is the First of Mankind to fulfill that statement of Glory and Honor that is Jesus but he is Just the First Not the only one who ever will. Jesus' accomplishment give us the rest of MANKIND that same Hope of Glory and Honor He has. IMO I sense a communications breakdown.
Quote Psalm 8:5
King James Version (KJV)5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
Mankind already is a little lower than the mighty and crowned with glory and honor since God has given them dominion over everything on earth but not in heaven.
That is why creation is presently subject to corruption and is currently being delivered by, for, and through Jesus Anointed even as this passage from Romans teaches.
Quote Romans 8
King James Version (KJV)20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.It is not the heavens that mankind will be given dominance over in the Age To Come but the new earth.
On the other hand Jesus currently has dominion over both the heavens and the earth though there is evidence he will surrender that throne; for a time will come when we no longer require a king just as was the plan in the beginning.
Quote 1 Samuel 8
New International Version (NIV)7 And the LORD told him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king.
What part or parts of this are you disagreeing with and why?
Quote (ftk @ Sep. 27 2011,22:29) Gene: I do so agree with you. Christ “in us” is the hope of glory. Jesus is our lord and master but also our brother and first born of many. The spirit/life force/truth of God has come to us through Jesus. The words of God are the Kingdom of God, within each person. Spirit is within and without. Spirit is everywhere which is wonderful because there is no place anyone can be where God is not. Where the Kingdom is not. Where the fruit of the spirit is not. Its all personal, accepted within the mind/heart of those who accept and believe. The earth and the fulness thereof was given to mankind through Adam. God is at “arms length” pertaining to the functions on the earth. That's why we need to pray. When we give God access to work on our behalf then it is so. If God were controlling the functions and movements of the earth there would be peace, love and joy. God would not have the mess man has created.
God now can come into those who accept and believe and express his love through any of his perfected creation that will allow God to rule. The truth is so wonderful sometimes I have a hard time typing way to fast. God bless you in everything you do and say my brother. These are my opinions, TK
ftk………..you have it right brother. it is quite a blessing to understand that Our GOD is Awesome and very near us Brother.peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Kerwin……………The saints will also have that Glory and Honor Jesus is NOW HAVING, remember Jesus said Father I give them the Glory you have Given Me also that where i am they may be also. Kerwin Don't separate Jesus from our from our EXACT IDENTITY Lest you fall into the same trap the Trinitarians and Preexistences have. IMO
peace and love to you and yours brother………………………………………………………………….gene
Here is something interesting. The scripture Paul is quoting at Hebrew 2:7….in the New Testament came from Psalms, 8:5…. and it uses the word “Elohyim” that is translated as “angels”….!….for thou hast made him a little lower than “Elohyim” and hast crowned him with glory….! Wow!! TK
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 27 2011,21:04) Kerwin……………The saints will also have that Glory and Honor Jesus is NOW HAVING, remember Jesus said Father I give them the Glory you have Given Me also that where i am they may be also. Kerwin Don't separate Jesus from our from our EXACT IDENTITY Lest you fall into the same trap the Trinitarians and Preexistences have. IMO peace and love to you and yours brother………………………………………………………………….gene
Gene,I believe you are referring to this passage where Jesus asks God to grant those who believe a glory God has already given him.
Quote John 17:22
King James Version (KJV)22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
Earlier in the same prayer he asked for a glory that was reserved for him but which he had not yet been given by God.
Quote John 17:5
King James Version (KJV)5And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
They are clearly two different glories. One is the glory of God's saintly spirit while the other is the to reign over everything in heaven and on earth. Only Jesus obtains the glory to reign.
I know the difference between the human emperor and God, even though homage is done to both. I also know it is not to an angels that the new world will be subjected even though angels were created with a little more authority than mankind.
Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 26 2011,23:38) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 26 2011,09:23) Quote (kerwin @ Sep. 25 2011,22:13) Quote (terraricca @ Sep. 24 2011,20:46) kerwin Quote But when God is finished and wen is that
Pierre
Pierre,After Judgement day which occurs after the end of the Messianic Age(1000 years) is the tome I believe it will be.
Kerwinis that your best guest ?
It is my belief that is the time spoken of in this Scripture.
Quote Revelation 21
King James Version (KJV)6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
kerwin1Co 15:23 But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
1Co 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.1Co 15:28 When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
Rev 22:4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
Rev 22:6 The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.”think on those as well as those you have quoted,
Pierre
Quote (ftk @ Sep. 28 2011,02:24) Here is something interesting. The scripture Paul is quoting at Hebrew 2:7….in the New Testament came from Psalms, 8:5…. and it uses the word “Elohyim” that is translated as “angels”….!….for thou hast made him a little lower than “Elohyim” and hast crowned him with glory….! Wow!! TK
ftk……….I never realized that before but it does make sense Because man is superior to Angels but a little lower then GOD is. Thanks ftk ,you have brought out a very good point to consider brother. Perhaps it should have very well been translated “Elohim” there then. Thanks brother, I will check it out.peace and love to you and yours………………………………..gene
Ftk………I did go and checked it out it appears you are right Brother it should be rendered “Elohim” or GOD in the text in Hebrews. Good Job Brother.
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………..gene
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