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Quote Luk 17:21 They can't say, 'Here it is!' or 'There it is!' You see, the kingdom of God is within you.” We can start building Gods kingdom within us.
Alternate translation in the margin or footnote of the KJ and NIV: “among you” and “in your midst.”
Modern Bible's translate it that way as well. Since the vast majority of Bibles and even the KJ margin translates it this way, why is there such a hold on the “within you” translation that conflicts with the context (verse 20)?Quote Can we really understand
How God's kingdom will be?We can understand what the Bible tells us it is. Othewise, what would be the point of the Bible mentioning the kingdom? We should try to understand what the Bible tells us about the kingdom.
We can start building Gods kingdom WITHIN US.
–lineon.Notice who it is that is setting up this kingdom:
REVELATION 1:6
“and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father.”
REVELATION 5:9,10:
“you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God.”Do we place these people (the kingdom) inside of us?
Just as people make up a government and are in the government, the Bible indicates that people would make up the kingdom. (Verses above.)
So when you ask if the kingdom is yet “in his people” I have to wonder what influenced you to say that. It has to be this lonely verse. All other verses make plain what God's kingdom is. This is the only verse in the whole Bible that people use to show that God's kingdom is “within” people:
LUKE 17:21
“neither will people be saying, ‘See here!’ or, ‘There!’ For, look! the kingdom of God IS WITHIN YOU.”
(KJ, NIV)
(Both the KJ margins and the NIV footnote give alternate translations: (“among you” and “in your midst”)I have to think the alternate translations are the correct ones. Here's why.
…1. CONTEXT! Read Luke 17:20 and 21. (Not just 21)
(He “answered” the pharisees. His statement was directed towards them. Do you think the kingdom of God is in the hearts of the pharisses? Jesus called them “hypocrites” and “serpents” and said “how are you to flee from the judgement of Gehenna?”
Is God’s kingdom in such ones?
..2. MODERN BIBLES translate it “in your midst” or “among you.” (Even KJ and others that have “within you” also have “among you” as an alternate translation in the margins.)
…3. MANY SCRIPTURES SHOW KINGDOM TO BE A GOVERNMENT –dan 2:44; Is 9:6,7; 1 cor 15:24; Rev 1:6; 5:9,10.I personally find it fascinating how influencial the KJ Bible is. It wouldn't be so bad if people considered the alternate translation of the translators for this one and only verse that people get this idea from.
david
Hi David
Eph 2:20 You are built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus himself is the cornerstone.
For you for me to be built on the foundation of the prophets
we have to have the the stones of the kingdom in our heart
and in our head here are some of the stones,Gal 5:22 But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. There are no laws against things like that.This is what I meant with the kingdom in us.
Quote Hi David Eph 2:20 You are built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus himself is the cornerstone.
For you for me to be built on the foundation of the prophets
we have to have the the stones of the kingdom in our heartThis scripture says nothing of Jesus or the apostles being in our hearts.
Quote Gal 5:22 But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. There are no laws against things like that.This is what I meant with the kingdom in us.
So what you meant was goodness, gentleness, etc, should be in our heart.
But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is. The scriptures indicate that the kingdom is a government–it is people. Neither of those scriptures say anything about God's kingdom being in men's hearts.
Hi David
But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is.
Is the kingdom of our God all about murder, raping, stealing, twisting the word of God that the future priets of the kingdom, will talk about?
Rev 21:5 The one sitting on the throne said, “I am making everything new.” He said, “Write this: 'These words are faithful and true.'”
Our God will renew everything that includes language, 'goverments', so we will not quiet understand how every thing will pan out. i.e. the new kingdom
Hi,
Romans 14:17
for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.The rule of God and His Son includes by the Spirit within men.
Quote Hi David But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is.
–lineon.
My point exactly.
Yet, you used that scripture which spoke of those things to prove that the kingdom (not joy, peace, etc) were inside of people.
Quote Our God will renew everything that includes language, 'goverments', so we will not quiet understand how every thing will pan out. i.e. the new kingdom Yet the Bible speaks of the kingdom a lot. Surely you have some thoughts.
Quote Is the kingdom of our God all about murder, raping, stealing, twisting the word of God that the future priets of the kingdom, will talk about? I'm not so much speaking about what the kingdom is “about” or what it will mean for mankind–all the blessings.
This thread is about what the kingdom of God “is.”
“The kingdom of God–what is it”?
Quote (david @ Feb. 18 2009,06:43) Quote Hi David Eph 2:20 You are built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus himself is the cornerstone.
For you for me to be built on the foundation of the prophets
we have to have the the stones of the kingdom in our heartThis scripture says nothing of Jesus or the apostles being in our hearts.
Quote Gal 5:22 But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. There are no laws against things like that.This is what I meant with the kingdom in us.
So what you meant was goodness, gentleness, etc, should be in our heart.
But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is. The scriptures indicate that the kingdom is a government–it is people. Neither of those scriptures say anything about God's kingdom being in men's hearts.
But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is.Hi David
I just want to set the record straight.
The above words, ” But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is.”Quote (lineon @ Feb. 19 2009,08:41) Quote (david @ Feb. 18 2009,06:43) Quote Hi David Eph 2:20 You are built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets. Christ Jesus himself is the cornerstone.
For you for me to be built on the foundation of the prophets
we have to have the the stones of the kingdom in our heartThis scripture says nothing of Jesus or the apostles being in our hearts.
Quote Gal 5:22 But the spiritual nature produces love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
Gal 5:23 gentleness, and self-control. There are no laws against things like that.This is what I meant with the kingdom in us.
So what you meant was goodness, gentleness, etc, should be in our heart.
But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is. The scriptures indicate that the kingdom is a government–it is people. Neither of those scriptures say anything about God's kingdom being in men's hearts.
But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is.Hi David
I just want to set the record straight.
The above words, ” But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is.”
Sorry david I made a hash of that post.What I wanted to say, these words “But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is.”
where written by you.
I just wanted to set the record sraight.Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding. That's funny. I was agreeing with myself and even said: “my point exactly.”
Hi david
You have 6945 posts under your belt
You know exactly how these posts work
And what they look like.That post in question, 'But love, joy, peace etc is not what the kingdom is.'
The way it was posted looked like
As if I wrote those words.With your experience in posting
You might have done that on purpose.With your mocking answer, Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding. That's funny. I was agreeing with myself and even said: “my point exactly.”
Which is human nature to answer like that,
Politicians also rely on their human nature
And they usally turn out to be liars and hypocrites.I am not saying you are the above
But your sarcastic answer indicates it.Don't jump on your high horse and deride me
With all types of words.I am not belittling you I am only pointing
Out to you what I read into a sarcastic answer.Quote With your experience in posting
You might have done that on purpose.Lineon, No, I didn't do that on purpose. And My answer wasn't “mocking,” or at least, not meant to be. (I'm not sure how it is.) It was confusing at first going back. I had thought you said that. (I always “quote” another persons posts and put in bold either scriptures or what I want to stand out. I thought you wanted those words to stand out. I'm just used to seeing quotes quoted in the box.)
I responded, by saying, 'my point exactly.' I found it funny that I was agreeing with myself. (That's funny isn't it?)Quote Which is human nature to answer like that,
Politicians also rely on their human nature
And they usally turn out to be liars and hypocrites.Here is what I said:
Quote Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding. That's funny. I was agreeing with myself and even said: “my point exactly.”
So, I apologized. I realized how odd it was that I was agreeing with myself and said it was “funny.”I'm not sure how you take any part of that to be mocking???
Quote I am not saying you are the above
But your sarcastic answer indicates it.
Which of my words specifically are sarcastic. Although I am sometimes guilty of this, this is not one of those times. I'm not sure which words you think are sarcastic?
I said I was sorry for the misunderstanding. I thought it was funny that I was agreeing with myself and then explained that. I see no sarcasm in that, do you?Quote Don't jump on your high horse and deride me
With all types of words.LINEON, once again, WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Are you really upset about that one sentence above, where I said: “Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding. That's funny. I was agreeing with myself and even said: “my point exactly.”
Maybe i should have put the “that's funny” as the third sentence.
Now, can we return to the topic–God's kingdom–what is it?
I'm not so much asking what it is about or not about–But what it actually is.
Lineon, what do you think?
Hi david
Thank you for your explanation
about the posts.To my mind there is not much
to talk about, but there is much
to look forward too because our hope is
alive too what will happen in the future.Our hope is for a new earth and new heaven
2Pe 3:13 But we look forward to what God has promised-a new heaven and a new earth-a place where everything that has God's approval lives.
Every thing will be made new,
to me that is fantastic a new lanuage,
no swear words, no derogatory terms
and hopefully no goverments
because we will all know what to do
and the priests of God will teach
all nations to be obedient to God.Quote To my mind there is not much
to talk about, but there is much
to look forward too because our hope is
alive too what will happen in the future.–Lineon.
This is similar to the almost universal response we get when we ask people in the minisistry about the kingdom. They all expect to be there but have no idea what it is. It's the same with heaven. They all expect to be there, but have no idea what the scriptures say or what they say about what those who go to heaven will be doing there. I think it is important to know what the kingdom is.
Quote Every thing will be made new,
to me that is fantastic a new lanuage,
no swear words, no derogatory terms
and HOPEFULLY no goverments–Lineon.
[CAPS ADDED FOR EMPHASIS]This is why learning what the kingdom is, is so important.
The Bible specifically says God's kingdom will bring an end to all human governments.
1 CORINTHIANS 15:24
“Next, the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power.”DANIEL 2:44
““And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;”1 CORINTHIANS 2:6
“Now we speak wisdom among those who are mature, but not the wisdom of this system of things nor that of the rulers of this system of things, who are to come to nothing.”There, now you don't have to hope in such things. You will “know” such things.
Hi david
You have not said any thing new.
Seems like my hope is not like your hope.
Rom 15:13 May God, the source of hope, fill you with joy and peace through your faith in him. Then you will overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
This is my type of hope.
Quote by Lineon altered by david.
Every thing will be made new,
to me that is fantastic a new lanuage,
no swear words, no derogatory terms
and HOPEFULLY no govermentsdavid As you can see from the post above,
that you have altered my post.
I did not shout at you which you indicate
by altering my 'hopefully' into and HOPEFULLY no goverments
This indicates that I want to argue with you
by shouting at you. I don't want to argue with you.I think it is highly unethical of you to alter my post
this is the first time I have seen it done
on heaven.net and I also think the moderators
should look at this type attitude.I would like an apology.
Hi lineon,
What do you think the role of priests will be in the millenial kingdom?
Teachers?1 Peter 2:5
you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.1 Peter 2:9
But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.Revelation 1:6
To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.Revelation 5:10
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.I expect they will rather like the Jewish priesthood leading worship, seeking grace and interceding with our God all around the world alongside the work of the Son.
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