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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2011,05:29) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,12:12) his translation of john 1:1 is ; and the word was A GOD. i totally was amazed about their wording,it totally gives another meaning to what God is saying,
Wakeup,“A god” IS the correct translation of John 1:1c. And you can read our discussion about it in the thread called “Blatant Corruption in the NWT”.
That is also the place for you to list ONE scripture in which you think the NWT wording is faulty.
Who knows? Maybe they do have a couple of messed up translations. But so far, not one person on this site has been able to show me one – despite the fact that those same people are eager to jump on the “NWT is Faulty” bandwagon. Perhaps you will be the first one here to not only claim fault in the NWT, but to also SHOW that fault?
Go to the thread, read about John 1:1, and feel free to post any single verse you think the NWT has wrong. I will happily discuss all verses with you there………….one at a time.
I'll even be willing to go over John 1:1 again, showing you that even many Trinitarian scholars agree that “a god” is one of the THREE grammatically possible translations of 1:1c.
Mike B.In the beginning was a God and that God was with yhwh,the same was in the beginning with yhwh. Does this suit you better?
An angel was a God, and he was with God,and everything was made by him.
Without him(the angel) was not anything made that was made.And the angel was made flesh,and dwelt among us.
IS THIS WHAT YOU BELIEVE? there was God and .A. God next to him. Well I have news for you.
Isiah 43:10. YE ARE MY WITNESSES,saith the Lord,and my servant whom I have chosen:That ye may know and believe me,and understand that IAM HE: before me there was no God formed,neither shall there be after me.
11. I even I am the lord;and BESIDE me there is no saviour
15. I am the Lord your holy one,the creator of israel your King.
isiah 44:8. fear ye not, neither be afraid: have I not told thee from that time,and have declared it? YE ARE MY WITNESSES. IS THERE A GOD BESIDE ME? YEA,THERE IS NO GOD;I KNOW NOT ANY.
ISIAH 45:21—–AND THERE IS NO GOD ELSE BESIDE ME;A JUST GOD AND A SAVIOUR;THERE IS NONE BESIDE ME.
V22. Look unto me and be ye saved,all the ends of the earth:FOR I AM GOD AND THERE IS NONE ELSE.But mike B. says NO there is A GOD next to God,and that God is his messenger: well thats fine Mike.
you have a nice one.
wakeup.
Wakeup,
I assume that you are on HN to learn as well as teach, right? I am willing to invest my time with you so we can learn together about all that you just posted…………..IF you are in fact WILLING to learn.
Are you?
Quote Isiah 43:10.
…….before me there was no God formed,neither shall there be after me.This is how NETBible translates the same verse:
No god was formed before me, and none will outlive me.It is evident from scripture that there are MANY gods and MANY lords, right? Jesus is called “god”, but isn't God Almighty, right? Same with Satan, right? So to read Is 43:10 as saying Jehovah is the ONLY God in existence is not true to scripture.
Quote 11. I even I am the lord;and BESIDE me there is no saviour
Yet we know from scripture that God SENT many other saviors, right? Jesus is just one of the many. So again, to read this verse as saying Jehovah is the ONLY savior, period, is also not true to scripture.Both of these mean “Without ME, there would be no other god or savior.”
Quote But mike B. says NO there is A GOD next to God
And Wakeup says: It is possible for God Himself to be WITH God Himself in the beginning.Are we learning yet?
Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2011,17:43) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2011,17:05) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,19:21) Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 24 2011,17:24) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 24 2011,15:38) Hi Wake-up, Thank you for adding clearing to show us all your position.
Your latest post, however, presents me with another question…Do you believe this part of John 1:1: …, “and the Word was God.” ?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Edj.Maybe I can make it more clear if I use an example.
Ok, we are created in the image of God,and we also are given each of us our word. My word is me,and your word is you.
but your word is not in charge of you, but you are in charge of your word.Your word can NEVER be in charge of you.
if you are a king in charge, you also can send your word to an other country; and your word will be spoken in that country.Anyone that dishonour your word is dihonouring you.
And so also is Gods word send to another country,(earth).
And the world has dishonoured Gods word.your word is inside you,but not incharge of you.
you are in charge.Just like Jesus the word of God is not in charge of God.(My father is greater than I)(I can do nothing by my self)(the one who sent is greater than the one who is send)The servant is not greater than the master.You and your word are one.Gods word has life in him,all are created by Gods word(Let there be light:word spoken,and there was light.
God can make his word flesh,and he did,and his name is Jesus.A king will give his command,and it will be done.
The kings breath is his word,when he speaks.Everything is made by the breath of his mouth Pslm33:6.
Is this clear now?Thank you seeker of truth.
wakeup.
Hi Wake-up, clear as mud.Quote My word is me,and your word is you.
I don't get it, you say… “My word is me, and your word is you”
…then why wouldn't God's word also be God as John 1:1 says it is?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thank you EdJ.It is fine, maybe next time you can understand.
wakeup.
Hi Wake-up,Then you don't believe …, “and the Word was God.” do you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Wake-up,You didn't answer my question? …will you please answer?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHey Wakeup,
First of all, I think your avatar name is perfect. It's what the world needs to do. I agree with you about Jesus and “the word”, and how it relates to him, the spirit, and his direct Father. I have realized in the past couple of days about how a person's “word” is actually them, expressed in Language. Whatever we have said about Jesus, God, and the holy spirit, will be judged at judgement. Weather or not it will be forgiven for errors is up to God, but as Jesus said, “what comes out of your mouth defiles a person”. Ed is defined by his words here, and in his book. He states “How evil was separated from God”. well, thats him. Mikeboll spends thousands of post proving that by his interpretation of scripture, and a few statements of the bible, that Jesus is separate from God, and it is wrong to worship him. Well, that is “mikebolls word”, him, no separation. Jesus was “the word made flesh” and as stated in John –
“8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.
To us he is. He came straight from the Father, born literally of God through a virgin. A perfect sacrifice for our sins. Perfectly perfect. Glory! To some others he is just a prophet and teacher. Before you bang your head against the wall trying to show the truth against so-called “true knowledge of the bible”, know that someone on here agrees with you, and feels lucky to have not only a perfect teacher and prophet, but LORD and savior also. Glory to him forever. Carry on-Mark
Hi Mark,
It's nice to see you realize God is his Word, and we can count on his word.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgNice to see we agree on this. In addition, “The Word” was made flesh-Jesus. We can count on him.
Peace Ed-Mark
Hi Mark,
“The Word” of God grew and multiplied. (Acts 12:24) did Jesus grow and multiply?
1Cor.14:36-38 What? came “The Word” of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that
I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Dec. 29 2011,05:19) Hi Mark, “The Word” of God grew and multiplied. (Acts 12:24) did Jesus grow and multiply?
1Cor.14:36-38 What? came “The Word” of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that
I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Oh absolutely Ed. Once the word became flesh and spoke as the Father, his word that he personally spoke grew and multiplied in thos who believed them (his words). You multiply them when you quote them here, from the four gospels. come to think of it, his word was REALLY multiplied when the printing press came to be and multilpied the bible.As far as Ignorance, we'll see at the gate who is ignorant. Peace
Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 28 2011,06:15) 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. To us he is. He came straight from the Father,
Wait a minute, Mark.The verse says “has seen THE FATHER“. Do you believe that Jesus is his own Father?
BEING the Father and “coming straight FROM the Father” are two completely different things.
Ed,
Is it possible that there are more than one meaning of “word” in the scriptures? Could it mean “Spokesman of God” in one verse, and refer to a word that God spoke in another?
Or must every instance of “word” mean exactly the same thing in scripture?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2011,12:06) Ed, Is it possible that there are more than one meaning of “word” in the scriptures? Could it mean “Spokesman of God” in one verse, and refer to a word that God spoke in another?
Or must every instance of “word” mean exactly the same thing in scripture?
Hi Mike,“The Words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.” (John 6:63)
“The Words which the LORD of hosts hath sent in his spirit by the former prophets:” (Zech.7:12)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi Mike,
“The Word” of God is Spirit, plain and simple.
The Lord(YHVH) gave “The Word”: great was the
company of those that published it. (Psalms 68:11)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgEd, is there more than one meaning of “word” in the scriptures or not? Don't pull a Gene on me – just answer the question, okay?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 29 2011,12:04) Quote (mikeangel @ Dec. 28 2011,06:15) 9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. To us he is. He came straight from the Father,
Wait a minute, Mark.The verse says “has seen THE FATHER“. Do you believe that Jesus is his own Father?
BEING the Father and “coming straight FROM the Father” are two completely different things.
Completely differant, and yet the same. Impossible for us to do or comprehend, but, “They are”. Peace-MarkMark,
That's just a nonsense statement designed to protect you from your own flawed logic and understanding.
If the doctrine is totally debunked by the actual scriptural words, the believers of that doctrine say things like “Well, WE don't have to understand it.” And, “It is a mystery.”
Come to think of it, that is often how pastors “explain” the Trinity Doctrine to those who point out that it makes no sense.
From the JWs:
The Encyclopedia Americana notes that the doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be “beyond the grasp of human reason.”Monsignor Eugene Clark says: “God is one, and God is three. Since there is nothing like this in creation, we cannot understand it, but only accept it.”
Cardinal John O’Connor states: “We know that it is a very profound mystery, which we don’t begin to understand.”
And Pope John Paul II speaks of “the inscrutable mystery of God the Trinity.”
Thus, A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge says: “Precisely what that doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves.”
“Mystery”? “Beyond the grasp of human understanding”? Those are “cover-up” words, Mark.
If you can't even EXPLAIN your doctrine, then why push it?
And if you know that Jesus ISN'T the Father, then it only makes YOU look foolish to use John 14:9 as a trinity proof text.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 30 2011,11:40) Ed, is there more than one meaning of “word” in the scriptures or not? Don't pull a Gene on me – just answer the question, okay?
Hi Mike,With regard to God's word I would say the meaning is always the same.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgWas Jesus an angel?
NO.
Though angels are messengers, and like angels, Jesus was sent to preach His Fathers message, this in itself can not define the Son as a mere angel…or a common servant…Galatians 4
1> Now I say, That the heir, as long as He is a child, differs nothing from a servant, though He be Lord of all,
2> But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the Father..As long as He is a Child > (Flesh)
DIFFERS nothing from a servant> (human or angelic, He was being LIKENED to a SERVANT, this does not mean He is a mere servant, just LIKENED to a servant)
THOUGH He be LORD OF ALL.
BUT is UNDER TUTORS > Jesus was ministered to by ANGELS after His 40 day fast for example.
UNTIL the TIME appointed of His Father> when Jesus ascended, God commanded ALL of His angels to worship Him…
The Lamb came of age.UNTIL He come of age…resurrected …UNTIL then..He was just LIKE a servant…BUT He is NOT truly a servant, He is the Son, the HEIR, and He must learn OBEDIENCE as a servant/child/Son/heir would UNTIL that Son/Servant/Heir/Child COMES OF AGE to claim His rightful INHERITANCE.
Hebrews 5
8> Though He were a Son, yet learned He OBEDIENCE by the things which He suffered.Michael already had OBEDIENCE and was/is obedient.
Michael had no need to learn OBEDIENCE.Jesus is not just a mere servant, but came AS a servant.
Angels ARE servants, they do not come AS servants, they ARE servants…
Jesus came AS a servant.
Clear separation between the two.Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 30 2011,00:42) Hi Mike, With regard to God's word I would say the meaning is always the same.
Okay Ed,Thanks for your direct answer. I guess we disagree on this as well as many other scriptural things.
I see “word of God” sometimes simply meaning words, or commandments, or prophesies God has spoken.
Other times, I think it refers to God's purpose or plan, such as “My word will not come back to me without accomplishing their purpose.”
And a couple of times, it refers to Jesus, who is called by the title “the Word of God” because he is God's head spokesman.
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