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Adam and Kerwin……….One thing we need to establish is the Word Messiah . I think this would add some meaning to something being said here, First of all IMO, there have been many Messiahs in the nation of Israel , Moses was a Messiah, Joshuah was a Messiah, the seventy elders were Messiahs , the Judges were Messiahs, the Prophets, King David was also as well . The word Messiahs simply means and ANOINTED ONE, that is all it Means and Nothing More all who are ANOINTED BY GOD FOR A WORK ARE MESSIAHS. Adam as You and Kerwin well know Jesus was Most assuredly a ANOINTED ONE OR A MESSIAH. That if the first step here that need to be totally understood by both of you.
Adam you have presented some very good distinction between what is written in the Old and New Testament, And i agree with your findings here. But nothing said prevents Jesus from being the Atoning Sacrifice for the People of GOD as well as being the Messiah, Did not the Blood of Goats and Rams represent something (symbolic) to Israel as well as to us all. The blood of goats and sheep and cows could never take away the sin of the people then, it did not change anyone at all, It was symbolic for a Spriturial meaning. When nthe death angel passed over the Houses of Israel , when it saw the Blood applied to the Door Post of the House , that was symbolically representing the door post of our Heart , when we applied the blood of Jesus, given for us on the door post of our hearts we are doing the same thing the Isrealites physically in a spiritual sense. You both understand the right of a kinsman Redeemer right , He could Pay the debt of of any relative, Jesus is our Kinsmen Redeemer because he is (SON OF MAN) in that sense He payed our death sentence pronounced on us by GOD on all sinners , “THE SOUL THAT SINS IT SHALL PARISH”. Adam many thing done in the old testament had their fulfillment in the New Testament. As i said before you as well as all Jews know full well the blood of Bulls and Goats and Lamb could never take away any of our sins now could they it did not take away theirs either as History shows. But just as the Israelites were delivered by the blood on the door posts of their houses they lived in, so is the fulfillment of the blood being applied to the door post of our hearts which is in these bodies we live in. Remember those thing were Shadows of the real thing to come, we who have applied the blood of Christ Jesus to the door posts of our heart are also Passed over and will not come to condemnation All this by the GRACE of GOD , Just as Israel was also Passed-over by the Same LOVING GRACE.
Adam there is a transition between the Physical things and the Spiritual things that must be understood, But i also agree that there are many thing twisted and present Jesus of a false light. Remember Jesus said the thing i am telling you are Spiritual and must be understood in a spiritual sense Brother. The Jews tend to see thing on a more Physical level and miss many of the spiritual understanding of them. Even the Laws are spiritual it say but we are carnal that is those who have not the Spirit of Truth in them and are sold unto slavery . Don;t make that mistake brother , Do not Throw out the Baby with the Wash Adam. Adam it is good that you bring out these discrepancies in the texts, it all help us see more clearly. Keep up you good work brother. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Nov. 26 2010,03:58) Adam and Kerwin……….One thing we need to establish is the Word Messiah . I think this would add some meaning to something being said here, First of all IMO, there have been many Messiahs in the nation of Israel , Moses was a Messiah, Joshuah was a Messiah, the seventy elders were Messiahs , the Judges were Messiahs, the Prophets, King David was also as well . The word Messiahs simply means and ANOINTED ONE, that is all it Means and Nothing More all who are ANOINTED BY GOD FOR A WORK ARE MESSIAHS. Adam as You and Kerwin well know Jesus was Most assuredly a ANOINTED ONE OR A MESSIAH. That if the first step here that need to be totally understood by both of you. Adam you have presented some very good distinction between what is written in the Old and New Testament, And i agree with your findings here. But nothing said prevents Jesus from being the Atoning Sacrifice for the People of GOD as well as being the Messiah, Did not the Blood of Goats and Rams represent something (symbolic) to Israel as well as to us all. The blood of goats and sheep and cows could never take away the sin of the people then, it did not change anyone at all, It was symbolic for a Spriturial meaning. When nthe death angel passed over the Houses of Israel , when it saw the Blood applied to the Door Post of the House , that was symbolically representing the door post of our Heart , when we applied the blood of Jesus, given for us on the door post of our hearts we are doing the same thing the Isrealites physically in a spiritual sense. You both understand the right of a kinsman Redeemer right , He could Pay the debt of of any relative, Jesus is our Kinsmen Redeemer because he is (SON OF MAN) in that sense He payed our death sentence pronounced on us by GOD on all sinners , “THE SOUL THAT SINS IT SHALL PARISH”. Adam many thing done in the old testament had their fulfillment in the New Testament. As i said before you as well as all Jews know full well the blood of Bulls and Goats and Lamb could never take away any of our sins now could they it did not take away theirs either as History shows. But just as the Israelites were delivered by the blood on the door posts of their houses they lived in, so is the fulfillment of the blood being applied to the door post of our hearts which is in these bodies we live in. Remember those thing were Shadows of the real thing to come, we who have applied the blood of Christ Jesus to the door posts of our heart are also Passed over and will not come to condemnation All this by the GRACE of GOD , Just as Israel was also Passed-over by the Same LOVING GRACE.
Adam there is a transition between the Physical things and the Spiritual things that must be understood, But i also agree that there are many thing twisted and present Jesus of a false light. Remember Jesus said the thing i am telling you are Spiritual and must be understood in a spiritual sense Brother. The Jews tend to see thing on a more Physical level and miss many of the spiritual understanding of them. Even the Laws are spiritual it say but we are carnal that is those who have not the Spirit of Truth in them and are sold unto slavery . Don;t make that mistake brother , Do not Throw out the Baby with the Wash Adam. Adam it is good that you bring out these discrepancies in the texts, it all help us see more clearly. Keep up you good work brother. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………………….gene
Good post it is brother Gene. I do agree with you that Jesus was declared Messiah by early Christianity. But the problem with the writers of N.T; they were so much biased in taking O.T scriptures in bits and parts by taking them out of their original context. This created problem for true Jewish people. This is the reason why N.T incorporated strange doctrines into Jewish Monotheism like Trinity, Preexistence, Divinity of Messiah, Eternal Hell, personal Devils and Satan etc. I find much of N.T deviates from the true path of Monotheism.Thanks and love to you
AdamAdam,
By using the Aggadic Midrashim method of Jewish interpretation the writer displayed he is either a Jew or familiar with Jewish practices. It also makes it likely the intended audience are Jews or at least familiar with Jewish methods of interpretation.
The Aggadic Midrashim method of interpretation is perfectly accepted in some Jewish traditions and informs us more about the practices of Jesus and his disciples in the first century. Therefore no errors are present unlike what your previous source concluded.
The book of Matthew was most likely written to Jewish believers or Gentile believers familiar with Jewish/Christian practices and so was to reinforce belief.
You may object to this Jewish method of interpretation but it does not make it wrong.
Modern Jews have been influenced by modern culture and cannot be compared to their earlier counterparts as you keep doing. The two religion though both called Judaism are quite different.
Thanks brother Kerwin for your information on Jewish midrashim. But I am not interested in such mystified religious ideas. You believe Messiah would be a human I also believe the same and the only difference I have is about Jesus can not be true Jewish Messiah since he had not fulfilled any major prophecies about Messiah. I still expect proofs for that.
Thanks and peace to you
AdamAdam,
Actually he did bring about the new covenant which is a major prophecy he literally fulfilled. The question is do you understand both the prophecy and the new covenant.
I only read through the third requirement that was listed from Ezekiel 46:16. There is a major flaw here.
The Prince or Leader of a nation who shall give any of his inheritance to “the children of His inheritance”
(In this case, when we are speaking of the Messiah and fulfilling this particular prophecy, there is no where indicating that this Prince must be married and have children. This is speaking of “the Children of the Promise” who will inherit the kingdom one day in the future.Jews can't understand this because they do not believe that Yahushua was the Messiah who fulfilled the Pasach and all the details of the Spring Feasts, to the letter.
The final fullfillment when this Prince will rule, will not happen until YAH's kingdom is established, when death and the grave are no more. Then they shall see Him coming in the clouds and bow and be afraid, for they will know then what they have refused to believe, when He returns as the Righteous Heir to the thrown of His father David.
I hope ya'all don't fall for the lies of these Pharisee Jewish Rabbis.
Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 28 2010,10:05) Adam, Actually he did bring about the new covenant which is a major prophecy he literally fulfilled. The question is do you understand both the prophecy and the new covenant.
Hi brother Kerwin,
I can't agree your beliefs on Jesus literally fulfilling all Messianic prophecies. I have already brought forth number of arguments on this. Coming to your New Covenant; Jews never viewed Messiah's death as bringing forth of New Covenant. The new covenant is nothing to do with Jesus' crucifixion. Please see the Hebrew scriptures on new covenant no where they claim this human sacrifice for signing of such Christian invented New Covenant. These are the following arguments for that;The only reference in the Hebrew Bible that uses the wording “new covenant” is found in the Book of Jeremiah, Chapters 30-33 (God's promise of restoration), Chapter 31, Line 31:
“³¹Behold, days are comming – the word of HASHEM – when I will seal a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah: ³²not like the covenant that I sealed with their forefathers on the day that I took hold of their hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, for they abrogated My covenant, although I became their Master – the word of HASHEM. ³³For this is the covenant that I shall seal with the House of Israel after those days – the word of HASHEM – I will place My Torah within them and I will write it onto their heart; I will be a God for them and they will be a people for Me. ³⁴They will no longer teach – each man his fellow, each man his brother – saying, 'Know HASHEM!' For all of them will know Me, from their smallest to their greatest – the word of HASHEM – when I will forgive their iniquity and will no longer recall their sin.”
This prophet's word refers to the Messianic Age to come, in which the eternal Mosaic covenant with Israel will be confirmed. Of this Mosaic covenant between God and Israel the Shabbat is declared to be the sign forever (Exodus 31:13-17).[35] Jewish law gives Shabbat the status of being the most important holy day in the Jewish calendar for God was the first to observe it with the cessation of Creation (Genesis 2:1-3) and Judaism accords Shabbat the status of an all joyous holy day. The Tanach describes Shabbat as having the purpose as a “taste” of Olam Haba (the World to Come, the Hereafter) following the Messianic Age (the End of Days).
Jewish View
The Jewish view of the mere wording “new covenant” is no more than a renewed national commitment to abide by God's laws. In this view, the word new does not refer to commitment that replaces a previous one, but rather to an additional and greater level of commitment.[36] Because Jews view the Mosaic covenant as applying only to Jews and any New Covenant merely a strengthening of the already existing one, Jews do not see this phrase as relevant in any way to non-Jews. For non-Jews, Judaism advocates the pre-Sinaitic Seven Laws of Noah. “Unlike Christianity, Judaism does not deny salvation to those outside of its fold, for, according to Jewish law, all non-Jews who observe the Noahide laws will participate in salvation and in the revards of the world to come”.[37]
In his famous 1962 work “The Prophets” Abraham Joshua Heschel points out that Prophecy is not the only instrument of God to change the hearts of Israel, to know that he is God. He tells how the prophet Jeremiah complains that Israel is circumcised in body but “uncircumcised in heart” (9:26), that Jeremiah says “wash your heart from wickedness” (4:14). Heschel analyses that, while the prophet can only give Israel a new word, it is God himself how will give man a new heart: The “new covenant” will accomplish the complete transformation of every individual.[38]
Compare with:
I will give them an undivided heart and I will place a new spirit in them; I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh. ²°so that they may walk in My decrees and observe My laws and fulfill them. Then they will be a people unto Me, and I will be a God for them.|The 1996 Stone Edition Tanach by Mesorah Publications, Ezekiel 11:19-20.
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh .. ³²Not for your sake do I act – the word of the Lord HASHEM/ELOHIM – let this be known to you! Be embarrassed and ashamed of your ways, O House of Israel!|The 1996 Stone Edition Tanach by Mesorah Publications, Ezekiel 36:26 + 32.
The article Jewish Encyclopedia: New Testament states: “The idea of the new covenant is based chiefly upon Jeremiah 31:31-34 (comp. Hebrews 8:6-13, 10:16). That the prophet's words do not imply an abrogation of the Law is evidenced by his emphatic declaration of the immutability of the covenant with Israel (Jeremiah 31:35-36; comp. 33:25); he obviously looked for a renewal of the Law through a regeneration of the hearts of the people.” It is mentioned several times in the Mishna and Talmud, and had been used extensively in kabbalistic literature due to the Gematria value of 135 (number of occurrences in Tanakh) being equal to the word HaSinai (הסיני) in Genesis 10:17. Brit also has the numeric value of 612, which is suggested by some to mean that it is the 'first' mitzvah which is true for the Jewish life cycle. The other use is in relationship to the merit of Ruth being an ancestor to King David, with the name again having same gematria as Brit, linking Davidic covenant with that of all previous, since Ruth was a Moabite by birth, and related to Noah also.Adam,
If the Jews are not linking the new covenant with the Anointed then they are not using the reasoning skills God gave them.
According to Jewish teaching the Messianic Age is an age of righteousness and the results of writing God's commands on a persons heart and mind is a righteous person. It is thus easy to conclude the new covenant is required for the Messianic Age to occur.
The Jews see the same thing I do and thus link the new covenant to the Messianic Age. At least Wikipedia states that. It seems you do to which confuses me as to why you stated the new covenant was not a prophecy of the Messiah.
Scripture does not say that it is a renewed national commitment. It states will write my commands on your heart and mind, i.e. as individuals. The Hebrew nations can commit as individuals but not as a nation.
Isaiah 42 is another one and God even states he will make his servant a covenant, i.e. new covenant, for the people. Jesus sealed that covenant by his self sacrifice, i.e. his mercy.
Quote (gollamudi @ Nov. 29 2010,15:12) Quote (kerwin @ Nov. 28 2010,10:05) Adam, Actually he did bring about the new covenant which is a major prophecy he literally fulfilled. The question is do you understand both the prophecy and the new covenant.
Hi brother Kerwin,
I can't agree your beliefs on Jesus literally fulfilling all Messianic prophecies. I have already brought forth number of arguments on this. Coming to your New Covenant; Jews never viewed Messiah's death as bringing forth of New Covenant. The new covenant is nothing to do with Jesus' crucifixion. Please see the Hebrew scriptures on new covenant no where they claim this human sacrifice for signing of such Christian invented New Covenant. These are the following arguments for that;The only reference in the Hebrew Bible that uses the wording “new covenant” is found in the Book of Jeremiah, Chapters 30-33 (God's promise of restoration), Chapter 31, Line 31:
“³¹Behold, days are comming – the word of HASHEM – when I will seal a new covenant with the House of Israel and with the House of Judah: ³²not like the covenant that I sealed with their forefathers on the day that I took hold of their hand to take them out of the land of Egypt, for they abrogated My covenant, although I became their Master – the word of HASHEM. ³³For this is the covenant that I shall seal with the House of Israel after those days – the word of HASHEM – I will place My Torah within them and I will write it onto their heart; I will be a God for them and they will be a people for Me. ³⁴They will no longer teach – each man his fellow, each man his brother – saying, 'Know HASHEM!' For all of them will know Me, from their smallest to their greatest – the word of HASHEM – when I will forgive their iniquity and will no longer recall their sin.”
This prophet's word refers to the Messianic Age to come, in which the eternal Mosaic covenant with Israel will be confirmed. Of this Mosaic covenant between God and Israel the Shabbat is declared to be the sign forever (Exodus 31:13-17).[35] Jewish law gives Shabbat the status of being the most important holy day in the Jewish calendar for God was the first to observe it with the cessation of Creation (Genesis 2:1-3) and Judaism accords Shabbat the status of an all joyous holy day. The Tanach describes Shabbat as having the purpose as a “taste” of Olam Haba (the World to Come, the Hereafter) following the Messianic Age (the End of Days).
Jewish View
The Jewish view of the mere wording “new covenant” is no more than a renewed national commitment to abide by God's laws. In this view, the word new does not refer to commitment that replaces a previous one, but rather to an additional and greater level of commitment.[36] Because Jews view the Mosaic covenant as applying only to Jews and any New Covenant merely a strengthening of the already existing one, Jews do not see this phrase as relevant in any way to non-Jews. For non-Jews, Judaism advocates the pre-Sinaitic Seven Laws of Noah. “Unlike Christianity, Judaism does not deny salvation to those outside of its fold, for, according to Jewish law, all non-Jews who observe the Noahide laws will participate in salvation and in the revards of the world to come”.[37]
In his famous 1962 work “The Prophets” Abraham Joshua Heschel points out that Prophecy is not the only instrument of God to change the hearts of Israel, to know that he is God. He tells how the prophet Jeremiah complains that Israel is circumcised in body but “uncircumcised in heart” (9:26), that Jeremiah says “wash your heart from wickedness” (4:14). Heschel analyses that, while the prophet can only give Israel a new word, it is God himself how will give man a new heart: The “new covenant” will accomplish the complete transformation of every individual.[38]
Compare with:
I will give them an undivided heart and I will place a new spirit in them; I will remove the heart of stone from their flesh and give them a heart of flesh. ²°so that they may walk in My decrees and observe My laws and fulfill them. Then they will be a people unto Me, and I will be a God for them.|The 1996 Stone Edition Tanach by Mesorah Publications, Ezekiel 11:19-20.
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh .. ³²Not for your sake do I act – the word of the Lord HASHEM/ELOHIM – let this be known to you! Be embarrassed and ashamed of your ways, O House of Israel!|The 1996 Stone Edition Tanach by Mesorah Publications, Ezekiel 36:26 + 32.
The article Jewish Encyclopedia: New Testament states: “The idea of the new covenant is based chiefly upon Jeremiah 31:31-34 (comp. Hebrews 8:6-13, 10:16). That the prophet's words do not imply an abrogation of the Law is evidenced by his emphatic declaration of the immutability of the covenant with Israel (Jeremiah 31:35-36; comp. 33:25); he obviously looked for a renewal of the Law through a regeneration of the hearts of the people.” It is mentioned several times in the Mishna and Talmud, and had been used extensively in kabbalistic literature due to the Gematria value of 135 (number of occurrences in Tanakh) being equal to the word HaSinai (הסיני) in Genesis 10:17. Brit also has the numeric value of 612, which is suggested by some to mean that it is the 'first' mitzvah which is true for the Jewish life cycle. The other use is in relationship to the merit of Ruth being an ancestor to King David, with the name again having same gematria as Brit, linking Davidic covenant with that of all previous, since Ruth was a Moabite by birth, and related to Noah also.
Perfect. We now have the two opposing views which is the culmination of the division of Yisra'el and Yehudah under Reoboam and Jeroboam.Look closely at the division, the differences. The truth is that Reoboam “made the yoke of the people heavy.”
While Jeorboam on the other hand, “removed the yolk completely and invented new holy days, and appointed anyone person he wished, to be priest.” This is against Torah.
The exact same thing is true today. Jews add to the Torah with their takanot and ma'asim, the traditions and laws or men. This against Torah.
You all must agree, at least those of us who study the Word, that Judah and Isra'el are still divided.
According to Prophecy these two will be made one again in the future. They will have one Torah, and one King, and they will keep the original Sabbaths.
The New Covenant is a perfect example of what happened to Yisra'el because of Reoboam and Jeroboam.
Please let me explain the true New Covenant from the proper perspective.
There is only one covenant of “the promise” as given to the Son's of ELohim from Abraham through the Messiah. I am speaking knowing that Yahushua is the Messiah, and i also follow Torah.
It is true that the New Covenant is not brand new. The New Covenant as prophecied even unto Mosheh (Moses) means that the Torah which was once written on two tablets of stone (Old Covenant) is now written in the hearts of men to walk in it with joy and love (New Covenant).
The Hebrew word for new when speaking of the covenant, and the moon, is CHODESH which means to shoot forth. Picture an old olive tree where new shoots spring up a ways away from the
original, but never the less are of the same root.These new shoots are the original tree living on and on and on.
So the New Covenant is the same covenant YHWH ELohim gave to Abraham in a new cycle, like the moon.
Joshua the son of Nun is a good example of how the new covenant works. The next generation renews their vows to our heavenly Father, before arriving in the promised land, and this goes on from generation to generation.
But there is more to this than meets the eye.
There was a time when YHWH ELohim “divorced Isra'el” because He saw her as a whore who bowed to other foreign might ones. This event occured AFTER the division of the 12 tribes between Reoboam and Jeroboam. Yisra'el today is also called Ephrayim, and Ephrayim are the inheritors of the covenant promise given to Abaham. YHWH told Abraham that he would become the father of many Gentiles! (translated poorly as nations)
YHWH ELohim did not divorce Judah at that time, because the Messiah had to come through the lineage of Judah and this had not happen yet. YHWH keeps His promises always, even to Isra'el whom He divorced.
Now moving forward to the death of Yahushua the Messiah. It dosen't take much studying to see that all the curses written in Torah against an “adulterous bride” came upon Him as He was nailed to the stake.
Yahushua Messiah came from the loins of David. He took the curse of the adulterous Bride, also called “The Lost Sheep of the House of Yisra'el.”
Physical baptisim teaches that we must die to self, in order to live. We must be immersed in the Name Yahushua. Wehen we do this, we are professing the belief that He died because we transgresse the original covenant. We profess that we will from now on walk in Torah which is what Yahushua did. We make Yahushua our Master and our Teacher.
We must be graffed back into the original Olive Tree, the Tree of Life. We repent and we return to the One true ELohim, YHWH of Hosts.
This change means that we have left the false religions of this world, wordhipping false might ones like the Gentiles that we had become. We will no longer worship their false elohim in keeping false holy days, and man-made sabbaths. We now walk in Torak, we walk in the light. We embrace all the Good things our ABBA first gave us at Mt. Siani.
This renewing of the covenant is only possible because we believe and be obey. We walk as a new person, completely forgiven of our sin debts, and may return to the covenant, this time out of love, a personal choice we all must make in order to live in YAH's kingdom.
Oh the grace and mercy of our Father is a wonderous thing to behold!Yisra'el inheritance was given to each son individually by Jacob who is called Israel by YHWH ELohim. Read each carefully and you will see that to Judah the Prince of Shalom would come, and to Joseph and his offspring, namely Ephrayim, the inheritance of the promise of the covenant.
Remember these words, “When the fullness of the Gentiles (Ephrayim) comes in, then the Messiah will return.
The Lost Sheep must return and follow Yahushua Messiah back to true worship of YHWH ELohim as written in the covenant, the Torah.
Love to you all in the Messiah Yahushua and YHWH our Elohim.
Laurel
Now you know the truth.Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 30 2010,07:21) Interesting Laural, thanks.
Hi Shimmer,Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 30 2010,02:33) Physical baptisim teaches that we must die to self, in order to live.
Do you know what this means?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Laurel @ Nov. 30 2010,09:31) Shimmer you are very welcome, and sorry for all the spelling errors.
It was interesting thanks Laural. And dont worry about spelling errors !Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2010,09:35) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 30 2010,07:21) Interesting Laural, thanks.
Hi Shimmer,Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 30 2010,02:33) Physical baptisim teaches that we must die to self, in order to live.
Do you know what this means?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ah yes Ed. Why ?Have you been Baptised ?
I was Baptised when I was 15.
Now as i'm older I live for God. And live as God wants me to. I do Gods will and not my own. I will die for God if need be. I live with only what I have, and desire nothing more. Does that pass Ed ?
Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 30 2010,08:39) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2010,09:35) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 30 2010,07:21) Interesting Laural, thanks.
Hi Shimmer,Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 30 2010,02:33) Physical baptisim teaches that we must die to self, in order to live.
Do you know what this means?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ah yes Ed. Why ?Have you been Baptised ?
I was Baptised when I was 15.
Now as i'm older I live for God. And live as God wants me to. I do Gods will and not my own. I will die for God if need be. I live with only what I have, and desire nothing more. Does that pass Ed ?
Hi Simmer,YHVH doesn't want us to die, only to
kill the (ego) carnal mind. (Eph.4:23)Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for
it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
but ‘i am’ carnal, sold under sin. (Click Here)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgGreetings Laurel:
Unless one be born again, he cannot see/perceive the Kingdom of God. In the new covenant there is no Jew or Gentile or male or female or circumcised or uncircumcised. In spirit all are ONE. The Jews of old had Jesus killed. They couldn't even do it themselves because of their law, so they threatned insurrection in the city and forced Pilot to have him killed. The blood of the death of Jesus was on the hands of the Jews. We may not want to admit that but it is the truth.Jesus is the messiah of God and his words are the foundation of the new city, the new Jerusalem. Jesus is the capstone, the stones of the building, the rock of foundation, the new living temple of God. Made without hands.
If the master Jesus had wanted anyone to live by the torah he would have said so, it was avaliable. If he didn't use all the various old testament names for God then they are unnecessary for our learning.Jesus clearly cursed the fig tree and commanded that no one eat her fruit ever again!!
Had the old covenant with the law been able to cleanse the worshipers of sin permantly there would have been no reason for another. The law led us to Christ. The law was a schoolmaster to teach us. Yet it was powerless over sin.
Jesus wasn't the lost sheep of the house of Israel. The Jews were predominatly in darkness and sin. They were vipers, and like snakes with venom/poison in their mouths, they ordered people around and never lifted a finger to help. The Jews of the old testament were blind guides of the blind. TKQuote (Laurel @ Nov. 30 2010,02:33) Perfect. We now have the two opposing views which is the culmination of the division of Yisra'el and Yehudah under Reoboam and Jeroboam. Look closely at the division, the differences. The truth is that Reoboam “made the yoke of the people heavy.”
While Jeorboam on the other hand, “removed the yolk completely and invented new holy days, and appointed anyone person he wished, to be priest.” This is against Torah.
The exact same thing is true today. Jews add to the Torah with their takanot and ma'asim, the traditions and laws or men. This against Torah.
You all must agree, at least those of us who study the Word, that Judah and Isra'el are still divided.
According to Prophecy these two will be made one again in the future. They will have one Torah, and one King, and they will keep the original Sabbaths.
The New Covenant is a perfect example of what happened to Yisra'el because of Reoboam and Jeroboam.
Please let me explain the true New Covenant from the proper perspective.
There is only one covenant of “the promise” as given to the Son's of ELohim from Abraham through the Messiah. I am speaking knowing that Yahushua is the Messiah, and i also follow Torah.
It is true that the New Covenant is not brand new. The New Covenant as prophecied even unto Mosheh (Moses) means that the Torah which was once written on two tablets of stone (Old Covenant) is now written in the hearts of men to walk in it with joy and love (New Covenant).
The Hebrew word for new when speaking of the covenant, and the moon, is CHODESH which means to shoot forth. Picture an old olive tree where new shoots spring up a ways away from the original, but never the less are of the same root.
These new shoots are the original tree living on and on and on.
So the New Covenant is the same covenant YHWH ELohim gave to Abraham in a new cycle, like the moon.
Joshua the son of Nun is a good example of how the new covenant works. The next generation renews their vows to our heavenly Father, before arriving in the promised land, and this goes on from generation to generation.
But there is more to this than meets the eye.
There was a time when YHWH ELohim “divorced Isra'el” because He saw her as a whore who bowed to other foreign might ones. This event occured AFTER the division of the 12 tribes between Reoboam and Jeroboam. Yisra'el today is also called Ephrayim, and Ephrayim are the inheritors of the covenant promise given to Abaham. YHWH told Abraham that he would become the father of many Gentiles! (translated poorly as nations)
YHWH ELohim did not divorce Judah at that time, because the Messiah had to come through the lineage of Judah and this had not happen yet. YHWH keeps His promises always, even to Isra'el whom He divorced.
Now moving forward to the death of Yahushua the Messiah. It dosen't take much studying to see that all the curses written in Torah against an “adulterous bride” came upon Him as He was nailed to the stake.
Yahushua Messiah came from the loins of David. He took the curse of the adulterous Bride, also called “The Lost Sheep of the House of Yisra'el.”
Physical baptisim teaches that we must die to self, in order to live. We must be immersed in the Name Yahushua. Wehen we do this, we are professing the belief that He died because we transgresse the original covenant. We profess that we will from now on walk in Torah which is what Yahushua did. We make Yahushua our Master and our Teacher.
We must be graffed back into the original Olive Tree, the Tree of Life. We repent and we return to the One true ELohim, YHWH of Hosts.
This change means that we have left the false religions of this world, wordhipping false might ones like the Gentiles that we had become. We will no longer worship their false elohim in keeping false holy days, and man-made sabbaths. We now walk in Torak, we walk in the light. We embrace all the Good things our ABBA first gave us at Mt. Siani.
This renewing of the covenant is only possible because we believe and be obey. We walk as a new person, completely forgiven of our sin debts, and may return to the covenant, this time out of love, a personal choice we all must make in order to live in YAH's kingdom.
Oh the grace and mercy of our Father is a wonderous thing to behold!Yisra'el inheritance was given to each son individually by Jacob who is called Israel by YHWH ELohim. Read each carefully and you will see that to Judah the Prince of Shalom would come, and to Joseph and his offspring, namely Ephrayim, the inheritance of the promise of the covenant.
Remember these words, “When the fullness of the Gentiles (Ephrayim) comes in, then the Messiah will return.
The Lost Sheep must return and follow Yahushua Messiah back to true worship of YHWH ELohim as written in the covenant, the Torah.
Love to you all in the Messiah Yahushua and YHWH our Elohim.
Laurel
Now you know the truth.
Hi Laurel,
Greetings. Good post it is as per Christianity is concerned. But you have already assumed that Jesus was the Jewish Messiah which is debatable here in this thread. I have brought out much argument on how Jews view that Jesus can not be their true Messiah since he had not fulfilled any major prophecies of Messiah. Jewish New Covenant is nothing to do with Christian alleged New Covenant. It is purely Christian writers took Hebrew scriptures in bits and parts to prove their ideas. I am sorry I can't agree with your views.Peace to you
AdamQuote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2010,08:51) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 30 2010,08:39) Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2010,09:35) Quote (shimmer @ Nov. 30 2010,07:21) Interesting Laural, thanks.
Hi Shimmer,Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 30 2010,02:33) Physical baptisim teaches that we must die to self, in order to live.
Do you know what this means?God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ah yes Ed. Why ?Have you been Baptised ?
I was Baptised when I was 15.
Now as i'm older I live for God. And live as God wants me to. I do Gods will and not my own. I will die for God if need be. I live with only what I have, and desire nothing more. Does that pass Ed ?
Hi Simmer,YHVH doesn't want us to die, only to
kill the (ego) carnal mind. (Eph.4:23)Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for
it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual:
but ‘i am’ carnal, sold under sin. (Click Here)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Ed,
If you don't mind would you explain your interpretaion of the verse you posted here. I was wondering what you meant by your comment, then attaching this perticular verse to your comment?
Thanks,
Laurel
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