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Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 04 2010,17:30) So it was only figurative overstatement?
Jesus is well known for using figurative language.I looked but found no evidence what he states was altered later except that he states approximately the same thing one other place in Mathew and once in Luke and in both the three days and three nights are not included.
Adam………the Jewish perspective is for them, But GOD'S Perspective is for HIS whole CREATION not Just the Jews a tiny part of man kind. Jesus came to save the world not (JUST) the Jews, through the forgiveness of our sins before GOD, You said we are to atone for our own sins, but how is that possible when sin (any sin) is a death sentence, “The soul that sins (IT) shall DIE or Parish”. Have you and the Jew not ever sinned, it think we all have at times in our lives, So GOD Justice is upon Us ALL. SO the only way GOD's Justice could be satififed is some Payment (MUST) apply of His Justice is not served. GOD out of HIS Love for us ALL made a way to satify that JUSTICE so we can by accepting that price for our salvation be forgiven, That price tag was the Blood of Christ Jesus , He was the atoning Sacrifice of GOD, for our sins and thereby the Righteous Judgements of GOD was satisfied.
The Jew are focusing on themselves , not on the Plan of GOD dealing with (ALL) Humanity. YOu also said all those called were ignorant , but that is Not true , Paul was by no means a ignorant man. He was highely educated, and what about Nicodemus who came to Jesus at night and said He Know Jesus was from God because no man could do those things Jesus was doing without GOD being with him.
Why Can't Jews Be For Jesus?
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from http://www.shamash.org/lists/scj-faq/HTML/faq/17-03.html and http://www.aish.com/jewishi….sus.asp
The question above is a typical one asked by Christian Missionaries. The answer is easy, if one understands Jewish beliefs.
Jews do not believe that the Messiah is a part of G-d, or Divine in any way, more than any other person. Jews look only to G-d for our salvation, and when the time comes for G-d to bring the anointed king, then it shall happen. Jews do not concern ourselves with the messiah's identity, for the messiah is a person and the messiah's coming does not change our relationship with G-d. Jews do not accept the notion that Scripture “foretells” that G-d would robe Himself in flesh; in fact, to Jews, this idea is idolatry, and we stand against it.
The reason why Jews do not accept Jesus as the messiah is straightforward: he did not meet the requirements in the job requisition! G-d outlined these requirements in the Bible. The key aspect of proof is in the state of the world. According to the Bible, amongst the most mission of the messiah includes returning the world to return to G-d and G-d's teachings; restoring the royal dynasty to the descendants of David; overseeing the rebuilding of Jerusalem, including the Temple; gathering the Jewish people from all over the world and bringing them home to the Land of Israel; reestablishing the Sanhedrin; restoring the sacrificial system, the Sabbatical year and Jubilee. This simply has not happened. Judaism has no notion of the messiah not doing these things on the first visit, let along needing a second visit to do these things. Whenever these things are described in the Tanakh, the description says that the messiah will come and do these things – once.
Oh you want specifics? According to the Torah, the Messiah will:
Ezekiel 37:26-28: Build the Third Temple (besides saying that the Messiah will build the Third Temple, this chapter also details the exact dimensions that the Third Temple would have – precluding the Third Temple from simply being an allegory in Christian tradition)
Isaiah 43:5-6: Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel
Isaiah 2:4: Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. “Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall man learn war anymore.”
Zechariah 14:9: Spread universal knowledge of the G-d of Israel – uniting the entire human race as one: “G-d will be King over all the world – on that day, G-d will be One and His Name will be One”
Jesus fulfilled none of these messianic prophecies. Additionally:
Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy could only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (~300 BCE) the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, thus prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets (Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi). Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
Jesus was not descended from King David. Per Genesis 49:10 and Isaiah 11:1, the Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David. However, according to the Christian claim that Jesus was the product of a virgin birth, he had no father — and thus could not have possibly fulfilled the messianic requirement of being descended on his father's side from King David! The Christian idea of a virgin birth is derived from a verse in Isaiah describing an “alma” as giving birth. The word “alma” has always meant a young woman, but Christian theologians came centuries later and translated it as “virgin.” This accords Jesus' birth with the first century pagan idea of mortals being impregnated by G-ds. Isaiah 7:10 – 16
10: And God spoke to Ahaz and said
11: “Come on, ask me for a sign [that your enemies will be defeated]”
12: “Hmm… I dunno…”
13: Then he said “Come on, King [Ahaz]. You're quick to not trust people, but you're not going to trust God either?”
14:”God's gonna give you a sign. Check out this chick right here. The kid she's bearing is going to be named 'Immanuel'”
15: “He's going to eat the finest food and be a really good kid”
16: “But before he gets hair on his nuts, your enemies will be defeated”
It's well established that all four gospels were written in Greek. The Septuagint (LXX) is a Greek language version of the Hebrew “Old Testament”, which is more than likely what Matthew was quoting from. Isaiah 7:14 in Hebrew reads “this young woman” while Isaiah 7:14 in the LXX reads “this virgin”. In either case, Isaiah 7 is not a messainic prophecy, it's a chapter that deals with King Ahaz and his fear of the neighboring kingdoms. Isaiah wanted King Ahaz to wait for God to give him support instead of making alliances with Assyria. See the history of King Ahaz in the Jewish Encyclopedia.
Besides being literally written in Greek, a lot of Christianity's themes (gods impregnating mortals) are Greek in nature. Nietzsche called Christianity “Platonism for the masses”.In response, it is claimed that Joseph adopted Jesus, and passed on his genealogy via adoption. There are two problems with this claim:
There is no Biblical basis for the idea of a father passing on his tribal line by adoption. A priest who adopts a son from another tribe cannot make him a priest by adoption;
Joseph could never pass on by adoption that which he doesn't have. Because Joseph descended from Jeconiah (Mat. 1:11) he fell under the curse of that king that none of his descendants could ever sit as king upon the throne of David. (Jeremiah 22:30; 36:30).To answer this difficult problem, apologists claim that Jesus traces himself back to King David through his mother Mary, who allegedly descends from David, as shown in the third chapter of Luke. There are four basic problems with this claim:
There is no evidence that Mary descends from David. The third chapter of Luke traces Joseph's genealogy, not Mary's.
Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn't help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not mother. Cf. Num. 1:18; Ezra 2:59.
Even if family line could go through the mother, Mary was not from a legitimate Messianic family. According to the Bible, the Messiah must be a descendent of David through his son Solomon (II Sam. 7:14)
Luke 3:27 lists Shealtiel and Zerubbabel in his genealogy. These two also appear in Matthew 1:12 as descendants of the cursed Jeconiah. If Mary descends from them, it would also disqualify her from being a Messianic progenitor.Tradition teaches that the Messiah will lead the Jewish people to full Torah observance. Deut. 13:1-4 states that all mitzvahs remain binding forever, and anyone coming to change the Torah is immediately identified as a false prophet. Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states its commandments are no longer applicable. (John 1:45 and 9:16, Acts 3:22 and 7:37)
Also read about the Notzrim, who might have had a different view of the Jewish messiah than traditional Judaism.
Redefining the Roles
In Christianity, the role of the messiah was redefined in order to fit the man's career as written by his followers. As Jesus was said to have been resurrected, the Bible was examined with the purpose of finding evidence that the messiah would be killed without bringing peace to the world or redemption to Israel. There was therefore the expectation of a second coming, at which time Jesus would carry out the task expected of the messiah (because he obviously didn't do it the first time). This also required cr
eation of an explanation for the first coming and its catastrophic end. The net result of all of this was to shift the function of the messiah from a visible level where it could be tested (as in Tanakh, what Christians call the “Old Testament”) to an invisible level where it could not. As a result of this reworking, the messiah's goal the first time around was changed from the redemption of Israel to the atonement for “original sin”. A reworking of Biblical themes.Psalms 22:17
There were also mistakes with respect to Jesus's death and its foretelling. Psalms 22:17 says, “Like a lion, they are at my hands and feet.” The Hebrew word ki-ari (like a lion) is grammatically similar to the word “gouged.” Thus Christianity reads the verse as a reference to crucifixion: “They pierced my hands and feet.” Other scholars have said that Psalms 22:17 has the Hebrew word ki-asi, which would make this verse say “They bound my hands and feet”. As for the events that led up to the crucifixion:
First, the NT says that the trial was on a Friday, and that on the night before, Jesus celebrated the Passover meal with his disciples. Accordingly, that would mean that his trial was on the first day of Passover. Here is a violation of two legal principles — his trial was not on a Thursday or Monday as required, and it was on a holiday when no trials whatsoever could be held.
Second, there were no witnesses of a warning to Jesus and no witnesses of his actual crime. The NT account of his trial shows that he was convicted on his own testimony. This is a severe violation of the Torah.
Third, there is no account in the NT of any call for defense witnesses. Both the second and third points violate Jewish Sahnedrin law in Deut 19:15.
Fourth, the choice of execution methods violates Torah completely. If convicted for Sabbath violation or false prophecy, the appropriate punishment was stoning. Why use a Roman torture method that took days to kill the felon, if it did at all, and resulted in a mutilated corpse?
Fifth, if the trial and execution were indeed held on Friday, there are several problems, including limited time for a trial, and limited time for the execution. A crucifixion on a Friday afternoon was certain to run over through Shabbat and then later. Assuming that the 120 judges of the Sanhedrin would have permitted a crucifixion (which is unlikely), one would doubt that they would have risked having Jesus die on the cross after the Sabbath began Friday night (the Sabbath is on Saturday, not Sunday as later Christians have asserted. Even the word “Sabbath” is used to deonte “Saturday” in Spanish). Because of the Sabbath laws, they would have been unable to carry the corpse to a burial site, and leaving the corpse on the cross overnight would be a Torah violation.
Finally, sixth, there is no record teaching that the court of that era was known to be reckless with the use of the death penalty. Yet, not only was Jesus crucified, but so were two petty criminals, according to the NT, and their crimes did not even justify the death penalty under Jewish law.
Isaiah 53Christians also claim that Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus. Actually, Isaiah 53 directly follows the theme of chapter 52, describing the exile and redemption of the Jewish people. The singular form is used because the Jews (“Israel”) are regarded as one unit. In fact, Isaiah states no less than 11 times in the chapters prior to 53 that the Servant of God is Israel. When read correctly, Isaiah 53 clearly [and ironically] refers to the Jewish people being “bruised, crushed and as sheep brought to slaughter” at the hands of the nations of the world. These descriptions are used throughout Jewish scripture to graphically describe the suffering of the Jewish people (see Psalm 44). Isaiah 53 concludes that when the Jewish people are redeemed, the nations will recognize and accept responsibility for the inordinate suffering and death of the Jews.
Virgin Births and Greek Theology
As for the virgin birth – why did the Christians manufacture a prophecy about a virgin birth? Something that is not required of the Messiah? If not a simple mistranslation, then maybe something else. When the Jews didn't accept Jesus as the Messiah (because the many preconditions for the Messianic era had not been fulfilled), the Church faced the real threat that non-Jews would reject him too. So Paul did two things: He issued an order that said that a Christian no longer had to observe Jewish laws (Acts 15), and he introduced a few pagan myths into the new Christian religion so that it would appeal to the pagan gentiles. One such myth concerned the god Attis, who was worshiped in Western Asia (where Paul actively preached). According to The Golden Bough, by Frazier, Attis was born from a virgin. He later was mutilated and bled to death. The worship of Attis involved an effigy of him that was hung. Afterwards it would be buried in a cave, and when the tomb was reopened, the god Attis would rise from the dead and softly whisper glad tidings of salvation. In the Roman worship of Attis, an animal's blood, symbolic of the blood of Attis, would be poured on worshipers. They believed that his blood would wash away the worshipers sins. (Like Early Christians, worshipers of Attis also practiced celibacy). The two religions are so close that it cannot be a coincidence. Rather, Paul introduced these ideas into the worship of Jesus. Hence, he had to manufacture in Tanakh a prophecy that the Messiah would be immaculately conceived.
Psalms 110:1
In Matthew 22:41-44, there is a reported conversation between Jesus and the Pharisees concerning the genealogy of the Messiah. The Pharisees said that the Messiah will be the son of David, and Jesus reportedly counted: “'How then does David in the spirit call him 'Lord,' saying: 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool”? If David then called him Lord, how is he his son?' And no one was able to answer him a word, neither did any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.” This conversation could not have happened! Matthew is referring to Psalm 110:1, and is based on a clear mistranslation.
The first “Lord” in the sentence is properly capitalized because it uses the four-letter Hebrew name for G-d, the Yud kay vav kay – … YHWH. We would pronounce that in prayer as “Adonai,” which means Lord and only applies to G-d. The second “Lord” is improperly capitalized because the Hebrew word used at that point is “adoni” which means “my lord” and only refers to a human. So Psalms 110:1 should read: “The Lord said unto my lord, sit at my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool.” So who is the second and lower-cased “lord”? King David. This psalm begins “LeDavid Mizmor” (A song to David as opposed to by David). Accordingly, the song is written for David and makes him the subject of the first sentence. With that knowledge, the rest of the psalm makes perfect sense, G-d is giving much needed comfort to the King of Israel. Alternatively, it can be understood as a psalm written by David to be sung by the Levite choir praising him after his death.
Certainly any Pharisee would have known the meaning of Psalm 110 and would not have been confused by “Adonai” versus “adoni”. It is not so clear that a Greek-educated story teller with little or no Jewish training, and a Christian axe to grind, would have been so knowledgeable. The story in Matthew then must be made up and judged self-serving.
Yet despite the obvious mistranslation, Psalms 110:1, continues to be misused by missionaries to prove that the Messiah sits at G-d's right hand and is like G-d. Judaism, however, believes that the Messiah is a human being, not a god.
True Redemption
For Jews, if the Tanakh's requirements for the messiah have not been fulfilled, then there can only be one explanation: he has not yet come. To Jews, who were often subjected to mockery and contempt when asked where their messiah was, this was a painful stat
ement to make. But it was inescapable. As our forefather's said: Ani M'amin: “I believe with complete faith in the coming of the messiah; and though he may tarry I shall wait for him every day.”Furthermore, Christianity contradicts Jewish theology. In Christianity, the notion of “Trinity” breaks G-d into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (Matthew 28:19). However, the basis of Jewish belief is captured in the Shema: “Hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is ONE” (Deut. 6:4). Jews declare the One-ness of G-d every day, writing it on doorposts (Mezuzah), and binding it to the hand and head (Tefillin). This statement of G-d's One-ness is the first words a Jewish child is taught to say, and the last words uttered before he dies. In Jewish law, worship of a three-part G-d is considered idolatry — one of the three cardinal sins which a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress. This explains why during the Inquisitions and throughout history, Jews gave up their lives rather than convert.
Furthermore, Christians believe that G-d came down to earth in human form, as Jesus said: “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). However, in Judaism, the fundamental idea is that G-d is Incorporial, meaning G-d has no physical form. In Judaism, G-d is Eternal, above time, Infinite, beyond space. G-d cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that G-d assumes human form makes G-d small, diminishing both G-d's Unity and Divinity. The Torah says: “G-d is not a mortal” (Numbers 23:19). Judaism says that the Messiah will be born of human parents, with normal physical attributes just like other people. He will not be a demigod, and will not possess supernatural qualities. In fact, an individual is alive in every generation with the capacity to step into the role of the Messiah. (Maimonides – Laws of Kings 11:3)
Lastly, in Christianity, the physical world is viewed as an evil to be avoided. Mary is portrayed as a virgin. Priests and nuns are celibate. Monasteries are in remote, secluded locations. In Judaism, the belief is that G-d created the physical world not to frustrate us, but for our pleasure. Jewish spirituality comes through grappling with the mundane world in a way that uplifts and elevates. Sex in the proper context is one of the holiest acts we can perform. The Talmud says if a person has the opportunity to taste a new fruit and refuses to do so, he will have to account for that in the World-to-Come. Jewish rabbinical schools teach how to live amidst the bustle of commercial activity. Jews don't retreat from life, we elevate it.
So what do Jews say about Jesus, if he wasn't the messiah. The historical Jesus (not the mangod Christianity made him into) accomplished a great deal in turning people away from idolatry and towards a more authentic knowledge of G-d. But he has no special role to Judaism, in fact, no role at all.
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 05 2010,22:01) After all it was only 36 hours as per Matthew 28:1.
I am not sure how you got the exact time of Jesus burial or resurrection since I do not believe either are mentioned.he three days he was buried on three days not that he was buried for 72 hours. That includes only two nights as the Jewish day begins with the sunset and not just after midnight.
I am assuming that by days Jesus meant daylight periods and not 24 hour periods.
If you are look for”flaws” in the new testament biographies of Jesus then you will find them. The ones I know of are unimportant but still exist. The vary from differ colors for the same horse to a different number of people needing healing in different accounts of the same event. I just do not see them as important as I am more concerned about the message of salvation.
Why are the so called Jews of today the synagogue of Satan?
The answer is simple.
God promised them that those who hungered and thirsted for righteousness would be filled and they chose to reject his promise.
In doing so the showed they loved darkness and so are the children of Satan.
As the children of Satan they speak the words of Satan. If they were not the children of Satan then they would tell others how to achieve a righteousness that is like God's.
Of course the false Jews are not the only children Satan has since his children come in many types. Still, they are uniform in rejecting God's promise of righteousness even when they war among themselves.
Take a warning from their disbelief and do not reject God's promise.
Hi brother Kerwin,
Again your Satan concept is entirely different from Jewish. No children will be born a Satan since it is a fallen angel as per Christianity. Don't blame like hellenistic religionist since they only believe this another myth of devil or diobolism. No Hebrew scripture quotes such diobolic existence.goll
synagogue of Satan ;mean that the do not represent God will and truth in there ways;
because by not fulfilling and obey to God and rejecting his son.(Satan only mean adversary)
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 06 2010,17:17) 'Satan only means adversary'.. That is Jewish.
Satan falsely accused Job.hi Kerwin
Goll ,is right in what he said ,just read the scriptures ,Jesus died about the 9 hour on the sixth day
this leaves 3 hours +24 hour for the sabbath day + about 12 hours the following day,because it says ;early the first day before sun up it was still dark ,so it is more or less 39 hours in three days
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2010,22:28) hi Kerwin Goll ,is right in what he said ,just read the scriptures ,Jesus died about the 9 hour on the sixth day
this leaves 3 hours +24 hour for the sabbath day + about 12 hours the following day,because it says ;early the first day before sun up it was still dark ,so it is more or less 39 hours in three days
Thanks for such interpretation brother terraricca. Infact Jesus was in the grave only for 36 hours.Q: Why don't Jews believe Jesus was the Messiah? Aren't the proofs convincing?
A: This is a sensitive issue, and it is hoped that no one will be offended by the candid answer provided here.We do not believe that it is prophesied that the Messiah will be crucified. We do not believe that the Messiah will be the son of G-d. We do not believe that he will be raised from the dead any more than anyone else. We do not believe that he will appear twice, in what some Christians call a second coming. We do not believe that the Messiah will be our “savior” in the sense that he will redeem us from our sins.
These are all fascinating claims to make concerning anyone, but they are all irrelevant to the Messiah for whom the Jews have awaited these three thousand years. None of these things are prophesied in the Jewish Bible.
What then is this Messiah for whom we wait? The Messiah will be a mortal man, born of a normal man and woman. He will be of the undisputed scion of David through his father. He will become uncontested ruler in the Land of Israel over all the People of Israel, that is, all Twelve Tribes of Israel. He will have at least one son, who will be king after the Messiah dies a normal death at an advanced age.
He will be as described by the Prophet Isaiah (Isaiah 11:2-4): “full of wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, knowledge and the fear of G-d . . . he will smite the tyrant with the rod of his mouth, and slay the wicked with the breath of his lips . . .” (Maimonides explains this last as merely a parable, and not to be taken literally.)
Still, the Messiah will primarily be a prince of peace. As it says (Isaiah 52:7) “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announces peace.”
The Messiah will bring an end to all suffering and war. He will rescue the Children of Israel from exile. He will teach the world how to revere truth, and they will all return to G-d (though not necessarily to Judaism). All forms of warfare will be abolished.
The Torah will be strengthened by the teachings and practices of the Messiah. It will not be weakened nor changed in the slightest.
The Jews will no longer be subjugated nor oppressed by other nations. (In fact, there will be no oppression or subjugation anywhere in the world, by anyone against anyone.) The Jews will be free in the Land of Israel. We will have the Holy Temple once again. We will have the full body of the Law restored by the full Sanhedrin and all lesser courts. And the Messiah will do all this on his first try. Indeed, this is how we will know he is the Messiah.
It will be through these signs that he will be recognized. It will not be through miracles, nor through resurrection of the dead, nor through any new creation. It will be through the total Redemption we will undergo (as described in brief above) that we will know the Messiah. And in truth, it is not for the Messiah that we eagerly wait, but for the Redemption itself. The Messiah is merely G-d's messenger and vehicle for that Redemption.
The man the Christians worship may have been a good person, and he may have taught many good things. (Although I hasten to point out that there are many teachings in the Christian Bible that are completely unacceptable to Orthodox Jews, and incompatible to the teachings of the Torah.) But he was not the Messiah for whom we await and have long awaited. He may have been crucified, and that's a horrible thing. But that merely proves to us that he was not the Messiah.
He was not the son of G-d any more than we all are; precisely no more or less. The very thought is repugnant to a Jewish person. G-d having a son in that manner? We shudder at the suggestion.
Nor do we believe he was resurrected. But even if he was, that would not make him the Messiah.
All this that is claimed about Jesus is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the Messiah. There will indeed, come a time when all the dead will be resurrected, but not at the time of the Messiah's coming. That will be later. Much later. (You can read about that here.)
The Jewish faith has no place for most of the Christian Messiah beliefs. Nor is there any way to reconcile Jesus with the Jewish concept of the Messiah. The two concepts have very little in common.
We still await the Messiah, and our faith is still strong.
The Roman day began at midnight so that would be 9 in the morning. The Jewish and Greek day began at sunset of the previous day which would put it somewhere in the wee hours of the morning which I find unlikely. It is certainly not impossible though the time of sunset in April and March of 2010 was 5:30 to 7:00 meaning he would have died before sunrise.
Sunrise was approximately 5:30AM to 6:00 AM at the same time.
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,20:18) Q: Why don't Jews believe Jesus was the Messiah? Aren't the proofs convincing?
A: This is a sensitive issue, and it is hoped that no one will be offended by the candid answer provided here.We do not believe that it is prophesied that the Messiah will be crucified. We do not believe that the Messiah will be the son of G-d. We do not believe that he will be raised from the dead any more than anyone else. We do not believe that he will appear twice, in what some Christians call a second coming. We do not believe that the Messiah will be our “savior” in the sense that he will redeem us from our sins.
These are all fascinating claims to make concerning anyone, but they are all irrelevant to the Messiah for whom the Jews have awaited these three thousand years. None of these things are prophesied in the Jewish Bible.
What then is this Messiah for whom we wait? The Messiah will be a mortal man, born of a normal man and woman. He will be of the undisputed scion of David through his father. He will become uncontested ruler in the Land of Israel over all the People of Israel, that is, all Twelve Tribes of Israel. He will have at least one son, who will be king after the Messiah dies a normal death at an advanced age.
He will be as described by the Prophet Isaiah (Isaiah 11:2-4): “full of wisdom and understanding, counsel and might, knowledge and the fear of G-d . . . he will smite the tyrant with the rod of his mouth, and slay the wicked with the breath of his lips . . .” (Maimonides explains this last as merely a parable, and not to be taken literally.)
Still, the Messiah will primarily be a prince of peace. As it says (Isaiah 52:7) “How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of the messenger who announces peace.”
The Messiah will bring an end to all suffering and war. He will rescue the Children of Israel from exile. He will teach the world how to revere truth, and they will all return to G-d (though not necessarily to Judaism). All forms of warfare will be abolished.
The Torah will be strengthened by the teachings and practices of the Messiah. It will not be weakened nor changed in the slightest.
The Jews will no longer be subjugated nor oppressed by other nations. (In fact, there will be no oppression or subjugation anywhere in the world, by anyone against anyone.) The Jews will be free in the Land of Israel. We will have the Holy Temple once again. We will have the full body of the Law restored by the full Sanhedrin and all lesser courts. And the Messiah will do all this on his first try. Indeed, this is how we will know he is the Messiah.
It will be through these signs that he will be recognized. It will not be through miracles, nor through resurrection of the dead, nor through any new creation. It will be through the total Redemption we will undergo (as described in brief above) that we will know the Messiah. And in truth, it is not for the Messiah that we eagerly wait, but for the Redemption itself. The Messiah is merely G-d's messenger and vehicle for that Redemption.
The man the Christians worship may have been a good person, and he may have taught many good things. (Although I hasten to point out that there are many teachings in the Christian Bible that are completely unacceptable to Orthodox Jews, and incompatible to the teachings of the Torah.) But he was not the Messiah for whom we await and have long awaited. He may have been crucified, and that's a horrible thing. But that merely proves to us that he was not the Messiah.
He was not the son of G-d any more than we all are; precisely no more or less. The very thought is repugnant to a Jewish person. G-d having a son in that manner? We shudder at the suggestion.
Nor do we believe he was resurrected. But even if he was, that would not make him the Messiah.
All this that is claimed about Jesus is irrelevant. It has nothing to do with the Messiah. There will indeed, come a time when all the dead will be resurrected, but not at the time of the Messiah's coming. That will be later. Much later. (You can read about that here.)
The Jewish faith has no place for most of the Christian Messiah beliefs. Nor is there any way to reconcile Jesus with the Jewish concept of the Messiah. The two concepts have very little in common.
We still await the Messiah, and our faith is still strong.
Thinking for yourself does not mean you parrot what others say.What do you think?
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 07 2010,20:40) I started believing a lot of what an orthodox Jew believes.
I have more respect for the Orthodox Jews as they seem to be more sincere in their beliefs but they are still Pharisees whose doctrine was false 2000 years ago and has only evolved since then.I believe they will admit they are the descendants of the Pharisees.
kerwin
the pharesees could not understand Christ 2000 years later still do not,GOLL looking to fallow men not Christ ,he looks for religion ,not God inside him ,is choice is for the outside only ,The problem with our Christianity is it doesn't reply the queries of Jewish views which are strongly supported by their scriptures. I showed some of the examples how our N.T material (I mean the historical narrations) contradict itself for which there is no consensus arrived so far right from Virgin Birth to ascention of Jesus. How can you say what Christians follow is only truth? I see there are lot of holes in Christians theology. If you filter every thing there will be nothing that is left which is called a reliable theology.
Please think over brothers
Adam
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