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Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 26 2010,00:34) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 25 2010,11:39) Hi brother Gene,
I am sorry to say that there is no scripture in O.T to say that Messiah will be cut off in the middle of a week or middle of a time span. These are all the inventions of our Christianity by misinterpreting the Jewish scriptures. Indeed Messiah will come in the last days and establish peace and tranquility in the world. There will be one religion and one King in this world. So far Jesus never fulfilled any one of such requirements as Messiah. No Jew can agree with such views as Jesus fulfilled the messainic requirements. Please read some books as I quoted in my posts. Don't consider 'Jews for Jesus' as real Jewish people. You know they are none but Christians who believe every thing what a trinitarian believe here.Peace and love
Adam
You have not yet explained the Gabriel stone which is too old to be Christian.Stop listening to the yeast of the Pharisees and Saducees and look at the evidence that falsifies their teachings.
When they went across the lake, the disciples forgot to take bread. 6″Be careful,” Jesus said to them. “Be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
7They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn't bring any bread.”
Matthew 16:8-12(NIV) reads:
Quote Aware of their discussion, Jesus asked, “You of little faith, why are you talking among yourselves about having no bread? Do you still not understand? Don't you remember the five loaves for the five thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? Or the seven loaves for the four thousand, and how many basketfuls you gathered? How is it you don't understand that I was not talking to you about bread? But be on your guard against the yeast of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.
Kerwin! You are right, In my above post I proven to Him too about the Messiah in Daniel 9:26. He said that it was not in the Old Testament and it is. I gave Him my understanding and I really believe that because He is reading so much of their material that He is being brainwashed, just my opinion.
IMO it is a hard think so say that Jesus is not the Messiah. When History and Scriptures and the fact that He was resurrected is prove enough. Are there some errors in the Bible , yes, but most is correct. Thank you for showing Him too.
Peace and Love IreneJewish Messiah has not come so far- A Jewish view
In general, debates over whether or not Jesus of Nazareth was the Messiah seem pretty silly to me.
Different religious tradtions apparently have different criteria – job descritions, if you will. Different
criteria will yield diffent conclusions when applied to the same referent.I accept that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christian Messiah. My Christian friends assure me that Jesus is
their Messiah, and I have no reason to call into doubt their words about their Messiah.Oddly enough, at a recent study session at a Mosque I found that Jesus of Nazareth is called Messiah
by Muslims – who also believe (according to my Musim friends) that Jesus will come back at the end
of time to judge the living and the dead. So it may be that Jesus of Nazareth is the Islamic Messiah.Jesus of Nazareth may be the Messiah for many religions but Jesus of Nazareth cannot be the
Jewish Messiah.Why not?
The Jewish Messiah will issue in (or rule during ) a time of world wide peace and justice. Micah 4:3
The Jewish Messiah will issue in (or rule during) a time when all of the world will worship one G-d. Isaiah 66:23
The Jewish Messiah will gather all Jews back to Israel. Isaiah 11:12
The Jewish Messiah will rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem. Ezekiel 37:26-27
The Jewish Messiah will be of the Tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10
[Note that adoption – according to Jewish thought – does not change genealogy. If I am not Kohain, and I am
adopted by a Kohain, I do not become a Kohain.]
The Jewish Messiah be a descendent of King David and King Solomon. 2 Samuel 7:12 – 13
[See above.]
The Jewish Messiah will issue in (or rule during ) a time when all Jews obey the mitzvot. Ezekiel 37:24——————————————————————————–
If you accept these criteria, then when anyone claims to be, or is claimed to be, the Jewish Messiah,
you must ask the obvious questions:Have we lived in an age of universal peace and justice since the arrival of the ostensible Messiah ?
Have all people worshiped one G-d since the arrival of since the arrival of the ostensible Messiah?
Have all Jews returned to Israel since the arrival of the ostensible Messiah ?
Has the temple been rebuilt since the arrival of the ostensible Messiah ?
Etc.
If you apply this set of criteria, Jesus of Nazareth cannot be the Jewish Messiah.Let's look at the first criteria. Here's what Micah (4:3, JPS translation) says the Messiah will do:
nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more
they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid
Jesus did not usher in age of universal peace – nation shall not lift up sword againts nation! Wars cannot happen after the Messiah comes.
There was war in Jesus's lifetime. Wars have continued nearly unabated since his lifetime.We do not live in an age of universal justice or freedom from fear – and none shall make them afraid. The Holocaust cannot
happen after the Messiah comes! Can there be any doubt about that?Pogroms cannot happen in an age of universal justice – whether against the Cambodian people, the people of Darfur, or the Jews.
Can anyone say of the residents of Darfur they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig-tree; and none shall make them afraid?Can any serously argue that the Jewish Messiah would issue in an age where his followers would sing his prayer – the Lord's Prayer – while
burning Jewish children alive?Therefore – by the very first criteria – the Jewish Messiah has not come.
gollamudi,
Once again your source seems ignorant of the fact that with God a day can a thousand years and a thousand years a day.
Do you understand the concept I speak of?
Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 28 2010,15:07) So what way your “day=1000 year” theology related to Jewish Messiah?
You sound like an unbeliever but I suppose you could state it is the theology of Mosses as it is covered in a prayer attributed to him.Psalms 90:4(NIV) reads:
Quote For a thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.To use our timescales to limit God is rather silly and yet your sources, who should better, commonly do it.
Why won't you address the Gabriel Stone? It harms your creditability to dodge it as an issue since it tells us what some early Jews thought of the Anointed One.
gollamudi,
Let us speak of Micah 4:3 and the lack of credibility of some calling themselves Jew. This passage in Micah parallels what is written in the book of the prophet Isaiah 2nd Chapter versus 1 to 5. The prophet uses the words last days which can mean any particular length of kind God chooses it to mean.
He simply does not tell us preferring to keep that knowledge to himself. Should we be foolish to interpret that as being a number of actual days then that is on us.
What is also interesting about these words of the prophet is that without transition that his next ones speak of those that have abandoned their people the house of Jacob.
Both Isaiah and Micah speak of the Law going out from Zion. That would be the message of the gospel and it has not completed its work yet.
Wait for the Lord for he is faithful.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 28 2010,22:42) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 28 2010,15:07) So what way your “day=1000 year” theology related to Jewish Messiah?
You sound like an unbeliever but I suppose you could state it is the theology of Mosses as it is covered in a prayer attributed to him.Psalms 90:4(NIV) reads:
Quote For a thousand years in your sight
are like a day that has just gone by,
or like a watch in the night.To use our timescales to limit God is rather silly and yet your sources, who should better, commonly do it.
Why won't you address the Gabriel Stone? It harms your creditability to dodge it as an issue since it tells us what some early Jews thought of the Anointed One.
Hi brother Kerwin,
i don't think you will also be led by these so called apocalyptic material like Gabriel stone?
Here is one of the critics on Gabriel stone;“I appreciate your sentiment. But the truth is that a conservative or liberal agenda does not drive my scholarship. I am a scholar who works from a historical-critical and literary-critical perspective, and the outcome of my investigations do not matter to me except that they are built from the evidence with critical integrity. I analyze the material and what it tells me it tells me. If the Gabriel Stone told us that the Jews anticipated a messiah who would be resurrected in three days, I would tell you that. But it doesn't. It isn't even a close call. In fact, the Christian tradition had a real problem on its hand with the crucifixion and resurrection of the messiah. The Jews that the first Christians (who were Jews) were trying to convert were unconvinced by their arguments. This is why Paul says that the cross was a stumbling block to Jewish conversion.”
source:
http://forbiddengospels.blogspot.com/2009….of.htmlgollamudi,
I am not led by them as I happen to believe they are heresy in many cases but it does tell us something about Jewish beliefs of the time period.
The lady who blog you linked to did mention a hypothosis I had not heard previously though I am aware there is much debate in the scientific community of the correct translation of the tablet.
I am also interested in Hosea 6:2 that may well speak of the resurrection of Jesus according to God's hidden knowledge.
Remember that Jesus' students were scattered at his arrest and even Peter denied him.
Hosea 6:2 is the mere speculation of Christianity to prove three-days concept. But it doesn't talk about any thing about Jesus' death and resurrection. It talks about the troubles and comfort given to people of israel.
Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 31 2010,10:46) Hosea 6:2 is the mere speculation of Christianity to prove three-days concept. But it doesn't talk about any thing about Jesus' death and resurrection. It talks about the troubles and comfort given to people of israel.
The students of Jesus are the people of God.Did you know that as early as the First Century Jews believed the Torah contained encoded messages and hidden meanings.
The Kabbalahs for instance believe that by converting letters to numbers they can find a hidden meaning.
My source for that tidbit is the wikipedia entry on Kabbalah.
Other branches of Judaism may have considered that God stated things that hinted at times to come.
Take this scripture.
Zachariah 11:12-13(NIV) reads:
Quote I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
Does it speak of Zachariah or Judas? Could it speak of both?
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 01 2010,00:51) Quote (gollamudi @ Jan. 31 2010,10:46) Hosea 6:2 is the mere speculation of Christianity to prove three-days concept. But it doesn't talk about any thing about Jesus' death and resurrection. It talks about the troubles and comfort given to people of israel.
The students of Jesus are the people of God.Did you know that as early as the First Century Jews believed the Torah contained encoded messages and hidden meanings.
The Kabbalahs for instance believe that by converting letters to numbers they can find a hidden meaning.
My source for that tidbit is the wikipedia entry on Kabbalah.
Other branches of Judaism may have considered that God stated things that hinted at times to come.
Take this scripture.
Zachariah 11:12-13(NIV) reads:
Quote I told them, “If you think it best, give me my pay; but if not, keep it.” So they paid me thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said to me, “Throw it to the potter”-the handsome price at which they priced me! So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them into the house of the LORD to the potter.
Does it speak of Zachariah or Judas? Could it speak of both?
Infact no student(disciple) of Jesus believed such interpretation unless you say that they were also blinded. Resurrection after three days was not at all based on Hebrew scriptures unless N.T writers put words in Jesus' mouth. Can you prove this three days and three nights concept? All Gospels differ in this aspect. They are not reliable in terms of the historical narrations. You say that I need spirit of God for putting them together. I am really fed up by all those permutations and combinations to put them in order. But I could not succeed right from Jesus alleged virgin birth to his ascention. Historians badly commented on these issues. What else you need to nullify them?gollamudi wrote:
Quote In fact no student(disciple) of Jesus believed such interpretation unless you say that they were also blinded.
Do you have evidence to back up this conclusion?
It is you that is blinded as you seem to have trouble thinking like a Jew or at least certain Jews.
Have you ever read a scripture that you believe applies to you even though is was written for another? I assure you that I have.
Even now God speaks to us through scripture as well as through other ways.
You don't read scriptures with critical mind that's why you don't get such doubts. No disciple of Jesus believed in such resurrection after three days otherwise they could have not doubted Jesus' post-resurrection appearances. Gospels are proof for that. What else you need? Jews never believed that their Messiah will be dead and resurrected after three days. It was purely the invention of Christian writers.
Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 04 2010,15:41) You don't read scriptures with critical mind that's why you don't get such doubts. No disciple of Jesus believed in such resurrection after three days otherwise they could have not doubted Jesus' post-resurrection appearances. Gospels are proof for that. What else you need? Jews never believed that their Messiah will be dead and resurrected after three days. It was purely the invention of Christian writers.
Hindsight is sometimes 20/20 with prophecy.There is a reason for that. If the leaders who urged that Jesus be crucified had known they were fulfilling prophecy then they would have been wise, according to the world's standards, to avoid doing so.
Jesus told some Jews destroy this temple and I will raise it again in three days. His students which heard that challenge did not understand what it meant until after Jesus' resurrection when it was fulfilled.
Therefore if you are stating that Jesus' students did not know what would happen before he was resurected then I agree. On the other hand Jesus did.
goll
if you read scriptures with critical mind you have no faith in God,you may know god exist but you have no faith,
Jonah 3 days in the fish is a preview of Jesus dead and resurrection ,as you say there still good opposition against the truth but we getting closer to the end.
Hi brother Terraricca,
Can you prove this so called three days and three nights from N.T? It is again a mess how the writers of Gospels made it.Is Jesus Really the Jewish Messiah?
Let's examine the facts from a Jewish point of view. Not only do the Christians believe that Jesus is their Messiah, but they think that he is the Messiah as foretold by the Jewish Prophets of the Bible, and they try to prove it with quotes from the Bible and missionary organizations such as the Jews for Jesus, which try to entice Jews into converting to Christianity by telling them that they can accept Jesus as their Messiah and still be Jews. Because of these false claims by these missionary groups, Jews must have the facts in order to reaffirm our belief that all the Christian claims that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah is false.
Here are some of the points which demonstrate the blatant discrepancies and inconsistancies in the Missionaries' arguments in favor of Jesus.
The Jewish Messiah is to be a mortal human being born to two mortal parents. He is neither to be a god, nor a man born of supernatural or virgin birth. There is nothing in the Bible that states that the Messiah would be a god or God-like, or that he would be born to a virgin. The concept of the former contradicts the Jewish concept of God being above and beyond taking human form and limitations. Jews believe that only God should be worshipped, not a being of His creation, not even the Messiah himself. Besides, nowhere in the Bible is there any virgins giving birth. This idea is only found in pagan mythology, where virgins often bare offsping of gods. The only purpose of the concept of virgin birth is to attract pagans to Christianity.
The Jewish Messiah is supposed to return the Jews to the Holy Land, but Jesus lived while the Jews were still there before they were exiled by the Romans. How can he return them to their land if they were still living in it?
The Messiah is to rebuild the Jerusalem Temple, but Jesus lived while the Temple was still standing.
The Bible states that the Messiah will redeem Israel, but 30 years after Jesus died, Jerusalem was destroyed, and the Jews were exiled by the Roman to suffer 1900 years of persecution, mostly by the followers of Jesus.
The Prophets of the Bible foretold that all the nations of the world will acknowlege and worship the one true God (Isaiah 11.9, 45, and Zephaniah 3), but nothing like this happened after Jesus died; in fact, Islam develpoed and became the religion of many nations while Christianity splintered into many sects which constantly fight each other, and almost two-thirds of the human race worships idols. The world is very far from monotheism even to this day.
The Messiah's influence will extend to all who will worship God in the Jerusalem Temple. As the Prophet states, “My House will become the House of Prayer for all the Nations. This has clearly not taken place yet; therefore, the Messiah hasn't come yet.
A new spirit will fill the world man will no longer sin or commit crimes, especially the Jews (Deutteronomy 30: 6, Isaiah 60:21, Jeremiah 50:20, and Ezekiel 36:21). Soon after the days of Jesus, ignorance of God, science, and philosophy filled the earth, and the Dark Ages began.
If Jesus was God, why did he pray to and talk to himself?
The true Messiah will reign as King of the Jews. Jesus' carrer as a wandering preacher and “faith healer” lasted only three years until he was crucified by the Romans as a common criminal without any official postition or authority whatsoever.
One of the Messiah's main tasks is to bring world peace by ending wars and arms manufacturing (Isaiah 2:4). Yet, Christian nations are very war-like, and wars continue to be fought to this day.
Mark 13:30 and Matthew 4 states that the prophecies about the Messiah would take place during Jesus' generation, but nothing was accomplished after 2,000 years.
Nohwere does the Bible say that the Messiah would come once, die, and return in a “second coming”. Such a concept was a Christian concept meant to rationalize Jesus' failure to function in any way as the Messiah or fulfill the Hebrew Bible's prophecies.
The Bible says that the Messiah would be descened from King David. If Jesus is the “Son of God”, how could he be descened from King David from his father's side?
Missionaries constantly and deliberatly distort the meaning of the prophets' words in order to substantiate their claims; for example, the Hebrew term in Isaiah , “almah” means “young woman”, not “virgin”. Honest Christian scholars now admit this is a “pious fraud”, and they translate the word correctly in the “Reverse Standard Version” of the Bible.
If Jesus' raising from the dead was so important to demonstrate who he was, why did it take place in secret instead of in the presence of his “thousands' of followers?
Jesus claimed that he didn't intend to change the laws of Moses (Matthew 5), but he later abrogated some of the laws, and his followers later abolished or changed nearly all of them; for example, Christians still eat pork and fail to celebrate Yom Kippur or Rosh Hashanna despite what the Torah says. The Torah constantly says that its laws are eternal, and they can't be abolished or changed.
Judaism believes that God is eternal, above, and beyond time. He can't be born, die, suffer, “become flesh”, or be divivded into sections (“Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”).
If Jesus was the Messiah, why does the New Testiment admit that not one of the rabbis of the time accept his claim? Why did all the educated men and prominent men reject him?
If Jesus was the Messiah, why did most of his own people, the Jews of that time, reject him, including his own family? Why did his followers consist almost completely of a handful of poorly educated people?
Jesus ordered his followers to preach to the Jews only, not the Gentiles (Matthew 10), but his followers did the exact opposite. He clearly considered himself th Messiah of the Jews only, but he is accepted by foreign nations, and not the Jews.
The purpose of the Messiah is to bring us to the day when all the Jews will observe the Torah and to teach it to all humankind who will accept its truths. Nowhere in the Torah does it state that the Messiah will abolish it. The Torah is eternal.
Nowhere in the Torah does it state that forgivness of a person's sins can be brought about by someone else's death. Each man isaccountable for his own sins, and each man must repent of his own sins by changing his ways and seeking God's forgiveness.
Matthew 1 and Luke 3 both give different accounts of Jesus being descended from King David through his father Joseph.
If Jesus was the “Son of God”, why did he say on the cross, “My God, my God, why did thou foresake me?” instead of “My Father”?Another Jew says like this:
Why Jesus was NOT the Jewish Messiah
——————————————————————————–
A word before I begin: This post is NOT an attack on Christianity.
Jews, as a rule, do not comment on the truth or falsehood of any other faith, and that includes the Christian faith; we have no right. We only claim to know how God chose to speak to US. If He chose to speak to another people in another manner, that is no business of ours, and we have no warrant to say yea or nay. Only in the matter of literally worshiping idols as divine beings do we pronounce judgment, and that is rather rare in the modern world.
In my own, personal belief, Jesus was indeed sent by God to bring the light of Torah to the rest of the world. The Jews will always be “a small people”–the Book says so–and surely the rest of humanity was not meant to be left in the darkness of idol-worship. If not for Jesus, and perhaps even more for Paul, my own Celtic ancestors might have continued to paint themselves blue and worship trees.
The battle has never been between Christians and Jews, anyway. We are on the same side. On the other side are today's idol-worshippers–those who worship things; money, power, fame, gratification, status. May we both always remember that.
This post is on the rather more limited topic of why the Jews did not, and do not, accept Jesus as our Messiah. That some few have, and do, does not matter. Peace to them, but there are reasons why very few Jews who are familiar with and committed to their faith and tradition ever have, or ever will, believe in Jesus. This post is an effort to explain some of the most important.
To begin, then; Jesus, to put it plainly, simply did not perform the very specific actions that the Messiah was expected to do. There can be no “wiggle room” here; the tradition has been constant for thousands of years, and has not changed. It is not that there are certain “prophecies” that the Messiah has to “fulfill”; the Messiah is DEFINED by certain acts. To do them was to be the Messiah, and the meaning of the word “Messiah” was “the man who does these things.”
Jesus did not do them. He was not the Messiah. There is no “therefore,” because the phrases are synonymous.
Further, Jesus claimed (or it was claimed for him) that he had power and authority that no Jew could or would claim for any man, far beyond any that were ever attributed to the coming Messiah; and he took on a role that no Jew, at any time from Abraham forward, had ever contemplated that any man, Messiah or no, would ever be called upon to fulfill. There was no need for it.
Jesus fulfilled one and only one attribute of the Messiah; he was of the tribe of Judah. Much is made of this in two of the Gospels, Matthew and Luke, with elaborate genealogies given for Mary, and, oddly, for Joseph. Other than that, St. Paul and the Gospels to the contrary, Jesus did nothing expected of the Messiah.
Three such expectations will suffice for our purposes: (1) The Messiah was to be a military, or at least a political, leader, an actual, rightful King. (2) He would restore the independence of Israel and free it from foreign (at the time, Roman) rule. (3) Most importantly, he would institute a reign of perfect peace, justice, liberty and piety that would shortly extend over all the earth. It seems rather clear that none of these occurred; most glaringly the last, which was and has always been the most important sign and task of the Messiah (The short answer, for many Jews, to the question “Why don't you believe in Jesus?” is “Oy! Look around!”).
The Messiah was the coming King who would restore the line of David, free Israel, and being peace to the world; he would institute the Messianic Age. He was named for it, and it would be named for him. The two would come together, or not at all. They were one.
At the end of Jesus's life, these things had not happened. The Messiah had not come.
As if all that wasn't enough, Jesus, or his followers, made claims for him that were alien to Judaism, and that in fact were often blasphemous from a Jewish point of view. For starters, that Jesus was God incarnate. It would be hard to think of an idea more repugnant to Jews, then or now. The oldest and most fundamental and nonnegotiable tenet of Judaism is that God is One, which means a good deal more than “one God.” Among other things, it means that God is unique and indivisible, and shares His Essence and Being with no one and nothing. A “Trinity” is inconceivable for Jews. It would be easier for us to begin chowing down on ham-and-oyster sandwiches than to accept the claim that a man could be, in any sense, God.
The Messiah was never conceived to be anything other than an ordinary mortal man; anointed by God, to be sure, but no more a God himself than King David was. There is no hint of such a thing in any Jewish tradition; it is about as likely as the High Priest carving a stone idol and placing it in the Holy of Holies. It was, and remains, quite literally unthinkable.
Second, Jesus was said to be the literal son of God. This was way beyond bizarre. The idea that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of Moses and Sinai, could or would come down to earth and father a human child is as foreign to Judaism as temple prostitution. That is a Greek idea, not a Jewish one–consider Zeus and Hercules–and it may be no coincidence that Paul was speaking to Greeks, not Jews, when he formulated it. There has never been anything within a light-year of that idea anywhere in all the enormous tradition and long history of the Jewish people. It is, again, unthinkable.
Third, Jesus claimed the power and authority to forgive sins.
All sins.
Now this is difficult, because this is not widely known: Jews do not believe that God Himself has that power. God can forgive sins against Himself–ritual offenses, broken vows, and so on–but no more; a sin against another human must be forgiven by that person, or not at all.
This is why there can be no forgiveness for murder. The only one with the power to forgive is dead. This is also why the Jews of today cannot “forgive” the Holocaust. You must ask the six million for that forgiveness; we have no right to give it.
By claiming this power, Jesus was not claiming to be coequal with God, but in fact greater than God. No wonder some tore their robes when they heard him speak.
And again, as if all this were not enough–it is claimed that Jesus was the sacrifice that saves all men from their sins, and that this salvation is accessed by believing in it.
This seems simple; but for Jews, there are no less than six separate problems here. First, the idea that people need to be saved from their sins in the first place. Jews have never believed in “Original Sin,” or that all people are born sinful. We believe that everyone has an impulse to do good, and an impulse to do evil, and that these remain with us all our lives; our job is to follow the first and resist or co-opt the second to the best of our ability.
Second, St. Paul to the contrary, Jews have never taught, nor do we believe, that we are obligated to fulfill “the whole of the Law” or face eternal damnation. We believe that, since God made us, He knows our imperfection and our weakness, and does not demand that we be perfect and without fault or flaw. That would be the act of an unjust God, and we do not believe that God is unjust.
Third, Jews do not believe that any human can bear the sins of another. That principle is underlined in the Torah over and over again. Each man bears his own sins, and that cannot be changed.
Fourth, we do not believe that a “sacrifice” is necessary to obtain forgiveness for sins, whether animal or human (and the idea of a human sacrifice is so far from any Jewish belief or practice that it is barely comprehensible that anyone would even propose it as a possib
ility). It is true that animal sacrifices were performed in the Tabernacle and later in the Temple, but it is clear throughout the Torah and the Prophets that the sacrifice itself was meaningless without the repentance and devotion of the individual human heart accompanied by righteous deeds. No reward or punishment after death is mentioned in the Torah; both rewards and punishments were described in terms of THIS world and THIS life.Fifth, in Judaism, “belief” accomplishes precisely nothing by itself. There is no Creed in Judaism, no specified set of acceptable beliefs. What one “believes” is all but insignificant next to what one does, and no amount of “belief” cancels or ameliorates the results of one's actions.
Believing the proper “doctrines” in Judaism is utterly irrelevant to anything at all. Put simply: if I am in need, what do I care what you “believe”? Will you help me, or not? Nothing else matters. As John Wesley, the founder of Methodism, said; “The devils in Hell believe all the right doctrines; and for all that, they be but devils.”
Sixth, Jews are not even certain that there is a Heaven at all. Judaism has rather little concern with the afterlife; it isn't mentioned in the Torah, and belief in it seems to have been entirely absent from its teachings in the early years of our religion. Even those Jews who do believe in Heaven spend little time or energy thinking and talking about it. The point of the Jewish religion is THIS life. The next, we leave to God.
As you can see, though Judaism and Christianity share an ethic, basic values, and many religious practices, our views of the nature and structure of the relationship between God and man, the nature and importance of sin and the means of its forgiveness, the significance of the afterlife, and many other matters, are so different that they really do constitute entirely separate religions. That one was derived from the other, and that we share a large body of Scripture, no longer matters. We have both changed over the centuries, and we read those Scriptures differently.
We stand beside each other as brothers; but we have long since taken separate paths. We ought to respect one another and work together where our ideals and ethics converge–which is almost everywhere. Where our beliefs differ, we should agree to disagree and leave each other alone.
One more note: It is wholly illegitimate and improper for a follower of any faith to attempt to dictate to a follower of another what the beliefs of the other's religion OUGHT to be, then castigate him because they do not follow his prescription. No one has any warrant to point out passages of “prophecy” in our own Scriptures that we do not, and have never, read as such, and overrule the traditions and beliefs that we have held for more than three thousand years–and tell us what we ought to think and believe. No one has that right.
We have no warrant to deny that Jesus is your Savior, or to deny that, for you, any belief you may hold about him is or may be true. That is between you and God, and is none of our business.
But in the same way, it is not your right to insist that we abandon our own beliefs and convictions in favor of an understanding of our own Scriptures that we have never held.
Thank you for reading. May we all work together for the good of the Kingdom of God and forgive each other our disagreements.
I'll close with a saying from the Talmud. When the sages of old disagreed and could find no way to reconcile their differences, they would often allow both rulings to stand as equally acceptable options in Jewish law. When asked how this was possible, it was said that “When Elijah comes, he will explain which of us was right–or why we both were.”
Peace to all
Source: http://forums.carm.org/v/showthread.php?t=208530Quote (gollamudi @ Feb. 04 2010,16:15) Hi brother Terraricca,
Can you prove this so called three days and three nights from N.T? It is again a mess how the writers of Gospels made it.
I believe what Matthew demonstrates Jesus using in Matthew 12:40 is hyperbole or in other words a figurative overstatement. I state this because Jesus was only in the grave three days and two nights. The three days were not whole days either.I would conclude that Jesus as a law observing Jew rested on the Sabbath day.
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