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Hi All,
Here is the new topic “The Jewish Messiah”. I am interested to know more about this topic. Recently I received an e-mail from a well educated Jew. Here is how he argues that Christian Jesus did not fulfill the requirement of Jewish Messiah post.Messiah Wanted!
I. Introduction
Christianity is based on the claim that Jesus is the Messiah who fulfilled all the prophecies in the Hebrew Bible. In fact, many Christian missionary websites list hundreds of “Old Testament” prophecies, along with passages from the New Testament as “evidence” of their fulfillment by Jesus. The reality is that the messianic agenda, as described in the Hebrew Bible, consists of a mere handful of significant items, which are to be completed during the reign of (mashi'ah), the promised Jewish Messiah.
Although it is not the spiritual concern of Judaism and of the Jewish community at large whether Christians choose to believe these claims are true, unfortunate situations occur when Christian missionaries use this material for the purpose of Jewish evangelism. They try to convince their Jewish targets, particularly those who are perceived as lacking a good Jewish education, that this is all true and that they need to accept Jesus as Messiah in order to become “completed Jews”.
This essay focuses on what the Hebrew Bible teaches concerning the qualifications and expectations of the . This information is then cast into a “Job Requisition” that serves as a template that for evaluating the suitability of a claimant to this position. Specifically, this template is applied to Jesus, Christianity's candidate for this position, and demonstrates, (a) that he failed to qualify for the job, and (b) even though it is claimed he was appointed to the position, he did not do the job right.
II. Job Requisition: Judaism's Messiah
A “Job Requisition” template for the position of Jewish Messiah, shown in Table II-1, has been developed to describe who, according to the Hebrew Bible, this person will be, what his known attributes are, and what he is expected to accomplish. Further elaboration on its contents follows the table.
Table II-1 – “Job Requisition” for the Position Available
– the Jewish MessiahJob Description
To usher in the messianic era, as foretold in the Hebrew Bible, and to preside over the people of Israel as their king, sitting on the throne of King David.Job Requirements
To execute and successfully complete the messianic agenda, as described in the Hebrew Bible, within one lifetime.Prior Job Experience
NoneQualifications
The successful candidate will have attributes that must include, but not necessarily be limited to, the following:1. Be the seed (a direct descendant) of King David, through King Solomon (e.g., 2 Sam 7:12-16)
2. Be a spiritual and military/political leader (e.g., Is 2:3, 11:2; Dan 7:14)
3. Be married and have children during his term (e.g., Ezek 46:16-17)
Performance Appraisal Criteria:
The successful candidate will be expected to bring about certain conditions as part of his sovereignty, though some will commence prior to his being identified as the Messiah. These must include, but not necessarily be limited to, the following:
1. Arrival of Elijah the Prophet (e.g., Mal 3:23-24[4:5-6][2])
2. Building the Third Temple in Jerusalem (e.g., Ezek 37:26-28)
3. In-gathering of Jewish exiles to Israel (e.g., Is 11:12)
4. Reunification of Judah and Israel into one people (e.g., Ezek 37:22)
5. World peace (e.g., Is 2:4)
6. Universal knowledge of G-d (e.g., Is 11:9)
7. Resurrection of the dead (e.g., Is 26:19)
A. Prior Job Experience
Although Jewish tradition holds that in every generation there lives a person who is worthy of being the promised Jewish Messiah, this job has never before been filled. Consequently, it is not possible to possess any prior job experience.
B. Qualifications
The Qualifications of candidates for the job of Jewish Messiah are the pre-requisites for consideration, and they are specified in the Hebrew Bible.
1. Seed of David through Solomon
The Messiah will be a biological descendant of King David from the branch that goes through Solomon, since Solomon is the one who built the Temple:
2 Samuel 7:12-16 – (12) When your days will be completed and you will lie with your forefathers, then I shall raise up your seed after you, that which will issue from your loins, and I shall establish his kingdom. (13) He shall build a Temple for My sake, and I shall make firm the throne of his kingdom forever. (14) I shall be to him a Father, and he shall be to Me a son; so that when he goes astray I will chastise him with the rod of men and with afflictions of human beings. (15) But My mercy shall not move away from him as I removed [it] from Saul, whom I removed from before you. (16) And your dynasty and your kingdom shall be confirmed before you forever; your throne will remain firm forever. [See also Is 11:1; Jer 23:5, 30:9, 33:15; Ezek 34:23-24, 37:24-25.]
1 Chronicles 22:9-10 – (9) Behold a son will be born to you; he will be a man of peace, and I shall give him peace from all his enemies around about, for Solomon will be his name, and I shall give peace and quiet to Israel in his days. (10) He shall build a House in My Name, and he shall be to Me as a son, and I to him as a Father, and I shall prepare the throne of his kingdom forever. [See also 1 Kgs 8:15-20; 1 Chron 17:11-15, 22:9-10, 28:3-7.]
2. Spiritual and Military/Political Leader of Israel
The Messiah will be steeped in Torah, an authority who will influence all of Israel to follow Torah in an environment created by his spiritual leadership:
Isaiah 2:3 – And many nations shall go, and they shall say, “Come, let us go up to the L-rd's mount, to the House of the G-d of Jacob, and let Him teach us of His ways, and we will go in His paths;” for out of Zion shall the Torah come forth, and the Word of the L-rd from Jerusalem.
The Messiah will defeat and conquer the enemies surrounding Israel. As an ordinary mortal, a “flesh & blood” human being, he lives/will live in a world of recognizable realities of military requirements and political alignments. He will have to deal with these realities, and emerge victorious within the constraints that they engender. Nevertheless, his political leadership will be well recognized throughout the world:
Daniel 7:14 – He has been given dominion, honor, and kingship, so that all peoples, nations, and tongues will serve him; his dominion is an eternal dominion that will never be removed, and his kingship will not be destroyed.
3. Married with Children
Although marriage and children are not stated pre-requisites for being the Messiah, there is a clear indication that the Prince, who is the Messiah/King [see Ezek 34:23-24, 37:24], will have children (via marriage) at some point in time during his reign, and they will be entitled to inherit his property:
Ezekiel 46:16-17 – (16) Thus says the L-rd G-d: “If the Prince gives a gift to any of his sons, it is his inheritance to remain in their possession; it is their property by inheritance. (17) But if he gives a gift of his inheritance to one of his servants, then it shall be his [the servant's] until the year of liberty, and then it returns to the Prince; only to his sons shall his inheritance belong.
C. Performance Appraisal Criteria
The Performance Appraisal Criteria comprise several significant messianic agenda items against which the performance of a qualified candidate for the job of Jewish Messiah must be evaluated.
1. Arrival of Elijah the Prophet
Elijah the prophet will precede the Messiah and “pave the way” for his arrival, heralding the commencement of the messianic era:
Malachi 3:23[4:5] – Behold, I will send you Elijah the Prophet before the coming of the great and awesome day of the L-rd.
2. Building the Third Temple in Jerusalem
The presence of the Third Temple is envisioned in what is, perhaps, one of the most detailed and vivid descriptions of the messianic era to be found in the Hebrew Bible – Chapter 37 in the Book of Ezekiel:
Ezekiel 37:26-28 – (26) And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them, and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever. (27) And My dwelling place shall be over them; and I will be to them for a G-d, and they shall be to Me as a people. (28) And the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever. [See also Is 33:20; Ezekiel Chapters 40-48.]
Later on, in Chapters 40-48, Ezekiel provides detailed descriptions of the Third Temple and the ritual services to be held within its walls.
3. In-Gathering of Jewish Exiles to Israel
The Messiah will repatriate the Jewish people from the Diaspora to the promised land of Israel in preparation for the repair of the schism that followed Solomon's reign:
Isaiah 11:12 – And he [Messiah] shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. [See also 43:5-6; Jer 16:15, 23:3; Ezek 37:21-22; Zech 10:6-10.]
4. Reunification of Judah and Israel into One People
The messianic agenda calls for the restoration of a unified kingdom for the people of Israel:
Ezekiel 37:22 – And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be as two nations, and they shall not be divided into two kingdoms anymore. [See also the “lead-in”, Ezek 37:16-21; Is 11:13.]
5. World Peace
The Messiah will be recognized as a fair judge and peacemaker, and in the messianic era, disputes between countries will be settled through peaceful means and not by war:
Isaiah 2:4 – And he [the Messiah] shall judge among the nations, and he shall reprove many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, and they shall not learn war anymore. [See also , Is 11:6-8, Micah 4:3-4.]
6. Universal Knowledge of G-d
There will prevail a universal knowledge of G-d that will put an end to destruction and violence:
Isaiah 11:9 – They shall not harm and not destroy on all of My holy mountain; for the land shall be as filled with the knowledge of the L-rd, as the waters cover the sea bed. [See also Jer 31:33[34]; Zech 14:9.]
7. Resurrection of the Dead
Most, but not all, of the dead will come back to life. The righteous will live in bliss, and the wicked will live in misery:
Isaiah 26:19 – May Your dead live, 'My corpses shall rise; awaken and sing, you who dwell in the dust, for a dew of lights is your dew, and [to the] earth You shall cast the slackers. [See also Ezek 37:12-13; Dan 12:2.]
III. Christianity's Candidate – Appraisal of Qualifications & Performance
According to the New Testament, the Messiah of Christianity is Jesus. Rather than accept (on faith) the claims made by Christian missionaries about Jesus being the (Jewish) Messiah promised in the Hebrew Bible, he will be considered here as an applicant for the position of Jewish Messiah, whose credentials and performance will be evaluated using the requirements listed in the “Job Requisition”.
Prior Job Experience
According to the explanation given in Section II.A, and as Christianity's candidate for the job, Jesus satisfied this criterion.
Qualifications – Did Jesus Qualify for the Job?
1. Seed of David through Solomon
Although the New Testament authors claim that Jesus was the “son of David” (e.g., Mt 1:1; Mk 12:35), the manner of his allegedly miraculous “Virgin Birth” (e.g., Mt 1:18-25; Lk 1:27-35) rules out the possibility of a Davidic lineage for him. According to Jewish Law (e.g., Num 1:18), and as confirmed by recent genetic research, tribal lineage – a blood right – is passed exclusively by a father to his biological sons (via the Y-Chromosome) and, therefore, cannot be transmitted in any other manner, including adoption. Since, according to the New Testament, the Holy Ghost, not Joseph, impregnated the “Virgin Mary”, Jesus has no identifiable tribal lineage.
Another problem with the claim to the Davidic throne by Jesus is the matter of the two hopelessly irreconcilable genealogies in the New Testament (Mt 1:1-17; Lk 3:23-38). Christians still cannot agree on whether the genealogy in the Gospel of Luke belongs to Joseph or to Mary. Either way, this is a moot point, since that genealogy goes through Solomon's brother Nathan and, too, a female's genealogy is irrelevant to lineage according to the Hebrew Bible. Perhaps this is the reason that Paul, recognizing the problems with these two genealogies, wrote:
1 Timothy 1:4(KJV) – Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.
Titus 3:9(KJV) – But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Note here how Paul, to whom Christian missionaries refer as “Rabbi”, teaches Christians that some parts of the Bible – genealogies in this case, which include those of Jesus – are akin to fables and foolish questions, which must not be given heed and should be avoided.
2. Spiritual and Military/Political Leader of Israel
When did Jesus serve as spiritual and military/political leader of a unified people of Israel? Though Jesus is referred to as “King of the Jews” in the Four Gospels (e.g., Mt 27:29; Mk 15:9; Lk 23:38; Jn 18:39), there is no historical record or other validated evidence to substantiate that Jesus ever served in such a capacity. Moreover, there exists no extant factual evidence that he was ever recognized as a Torah scholar and authority, or that he ever led soldiers to war and was victorious on the battlefield.
3. Married with Children
Was Jesus ever married and did he (biologically) father any children? The authors of the New Testament are silent on this matter. According to the New Testament, Jesus never married nor did he father any children. Though Christians generally refer to themselves as the “spiritual” children of Jesus, this is not the same as biological children, which are also referred to as seed, offspring, and progeny.
“Candidate” Jesus passes the “Prior Job Experience” test. However, he does not possess the requisite “Qualifications” to be a viable candidate for the job.
Conclusion: Jesus failed to qualify as candidate for the job.
Performance Appraisal Criteria – Did Jesus Do the Job Right?
Christianity has claimed Jesus as its Messiah. Therefore, the evaluation process continues in order to determine whether he performed that job as required.
1. Arrival of Elijah the Prophet
Jesus claimed that John the Baptist was Elijah:
Matthew 11:10-14(KJV) – (10) For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (11) Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. (12) And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force. (13) For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. (14) And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to co
me.Yet, according to the New Testament, John the Baptist himself denied it:
John 1:21(KJV) – And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No.
Jesus also claimed that Elijah, when he showed up, was mistreated:
Matthew 17:12(KJV) – But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
Yet, nowhere in the Hebrew Bible is such treatment of Elijah foretold, and his mission will be the opposite of that which is described in the New Testament:
Malachi 4:5-6(KJV)[3:23-24 in the Hebrew Bible] – (5) Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: (6) And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
Moreover, it seems that John the Baptist, alleged to have been Elijah, was rather unsure about Jesus being the Messiah:
Luke 7:19-20(KJV) – (19) And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? (20) When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?
Given that Elijah will be the one announcing the arrival of the Messiah, how is it possible that he will not know who the Messiah is? Does this make any sense? The conclusion is that Elijah has not yet returned.
2. Building the Third Temple in Jerusalem
The authors of the New Testament are silent about Jesus having built the Third Temple in Jerusalem, and there is no mention of the Third Temple built after his death on the cross. The historical record of the first century C.E. testifies to the fact that the Second Temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 C.E., and that the Third Temple has not yet been built.
3. In-Gathering of Jewish Exiles to Israel
The authors of the New Testament are silent on whether this occurred during the lifetime of Jesus. The historical record of the first century C.E. testifies to the fact that not only where the all the Jewish people not repatriated to the Holy Land, they were exiled and dispersed into the Diaspora much more than what happened during the previous exile following the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E.
4. Reunification of Judah and Israel into One People
According to a misquoted verse from the Hebrew Bible, cited in Hebrews 8:8, this was not yet the situation at the time of the writing of Hebrews during the first century C.E. Eight centuries after the destruction of the Northern Kingdom of Israel with its population dispersed into exile by Assyria, only a Judean remnant populated the Holy Land.
5. World Peace
The historical record of the first century C.E. testifies to the fact that war, not peace, was raging all over the region of the Holy Land and elsewhere in the known world of that time.
6. Universal Knowledge of G-d
The historical record of the first century C.E. testifies to the fact that paganism was rampant, and that a new religion, which quickly embraced many of these pagan principles, further diverted people from a universal knowledge of G-d.
7. Resurrection of the Dead
Both the historical record of the first century C.E. and the conflicting accounts in the New Testament lead to the conclusion that no resurrection of the dead ever took place, and that the story of the alleged “rising from the dead” of Jesus is a myth.
The performance of “Candidate” Jesus did not meet the stated “Performance Appraisal Criteria”.
Conclusion: Jesus failed to do the job right.
Candidate's Score Card:
As was already demonstrated, Jesus did not possess the necessary credentials to qualify him as a candidate for the position of Jewish Messiah. Yet, owing to the fact that he is the declared Messiah of Christianity, it was actually possible to evaluate his performance on the job using the criteria provided in the Hebrew Bible. Together, the results of the two phases of the evaluation clearly demonstrate that Jesus did not meet the requirements that would entitle him to the title of Jewish Messiah. Table III.D-1 replicates the “Job Requisition” and includes a scoring column to indicate whether “candidate” Jesus, the Messiah of Christianity, satisfied each of the listed requirements.
Table III.D-1 – Did Christianity's candidate meet the job requirements?
Category
Requirements
Met?Prior Job Experience : None
YesQualifications
The successful candidate will have attributes that must include, but not necessarily be limited to, the following:
1. Be a direct descendant of King David, through King Solomon (e.g., 2 Sam 7:12-16)
No2. Be a spiritual and military/political leader (e.g., Is 2:3)
No3. Be married and have children during (e.g., Ezek 46:16-17)
NoPerformance Appraisal Criteria
The successful candidate will be expected to bring about certain conditions as part of his sovereignty, though some will commence prior to his being identified as Messiah. These must include, but not necessarily be limited to, the following:
1. Arrival of Elijah the Prophet (e.g., Mal 3:23-24[4:5-6])
No2. Building the Third Temple in Jerusalem (e.g., Ezek 37:26-28)
No3. In-gathering of Jewish exiles to Israel (e.g., Is 11:12)
No4. Reunification of Judah and Israel into one people (Ezek 37:22)
No5. World peace (e.g., Is 2:4)
No6. Universal knowledge of G-d (e.g., Is 11:9)
No7. Resurrection of the dead (e.g., Is 26:19)
NoCriteria Satisfied: 1 “Yes”, 10 “No”
“Candidate” Jesus, the Messiah of Christianity, satisfied one out of the eleven requirements described in the “Job Requisition” for the position of Jewish Messiah. Does he qualify for the title of Jewish Messiah? Would you hire him?
Conclusion: Jesus was a failed candidate for the job of Jewish Messiah.
IV. Summary
According to the requirements stated in the Hebrew Bible, and as the historical record testifies, the position of Jewish Messiah has not yet been filled and remains vacant to this day. Christianity has proclaimed Jesus as it's Messiah, and the New Testament contains the “evidence” of the fulfillment of the messianic prophecies in the “Old Testament”. Christian missionaries to the Jewish people try to impress on their Jewish targets that Jesus is, in fact, the promised Jewish Messiah. These are two incompatible perspectives.
The purpose of the analysis presented in this essay was to resolve this situation, and this is accomplished with the following pair of questions and answers. First, on being a qualified candidate for the job:
Question: Did Jesus, Christianity's “candidate” for the position of Jewish Messiah, qualify for the job?
The scores on the Qualifications in Table III.D-1 provide the answer:
Answer: Jesus did not possess the requisite qualifications for the job.
Second, concerning performance on the job:
Question: Did Jesus, the Messiah of Christianity, do the job right?
The scores on the Performance Appraisal Criteria in Table III.D-1 provide the answer:
Answer: Jesus did not meet the performance objectives of the job.
The events detailed in the Hebrew Bible as part of the messianic agenda did not occur nor have they been fulfilled. In fact, and quite to the contrary, history teaches that exactly the opposite conditions prevailed from the alleged time of the birth of Jesus, during his ministry, and long after his death, even to the present time.
Link:http://www.messiahtruth.com/wanted.html
Please participate in
this debate and write your arguments
Peace to all
AdamGm
It is obvious that your own theology has rejected the very tenets of the Christian faith.
So I am not surprised that you are propogating and seeking to become a non-believing Jew!
WJ
Hi brother WJ,
Thanks for your response on this new thread. You know for sure I am not at all a non-believing Jew. I am still a Christian like you. But I want all of you to define and establish the Jewish Messiah which was the chief tenet of the religion of the Bible and also the religion of our Lord Jesus. Please quote how you can disprove the claims of an hardcore Jew.Peace to you
AdamHi GM,
To satisfy you must the suffering servant fulfill all the criteria?You will find that King Jesus will fulfill the rest.
Married to the church his children are many.
Hi brother Nick,
Thanks for your response. The most primitive Christology of N.T according to John A.T Robinson says that Jesus came into this world not as Messiah but as prophet like Moses or like a servant of Yahweh. Yes I also believe that Jesus did not fulfill most of the Messianic requirements during his first coming but will fulfill all of them when he comes again. But no Jew accepts this claim that Messiah will have two comings.
Please share more
Thanks and peace to you
AdamHi GM,
Please quote me correctly.
He fulfilled some… being preceded by John, was a son of David, all men of any race can be one in him, and he entered Jerusalem as a king on the donkey… for example.Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 06 2009,03:28) Hi brother Nick,
Thanks for your response. The most primitive Christology of N.T according to John A.T Robinson says that Jesus came into this world not as Messiah but as prophet like Moses or like a servant of Yahweh. Yes I also believe that Jesus did not fulfill most of the Messianic requirements during his first coming but will fulfill all of them when he comes again. But no Jew accepts this claim that Messiah will have two comings.
Please share more
Thanks and peace to you
Adam
GMCould you supply your source for the quote of AT Robertson?
WJ
Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 06 2009,03:12) Hi brother WJ,
Thanks for your response on this new thread. You know for sure I am not at all a non-believing Jew. I am still a Christian like you. But I want all of you to define and establish the Jewish Messiah which was the chief tenet of the religion of the Bible and also the religion of our Lord Jesus. Please quote how you can disprove the claims of an hardcore Jew.Peace to you
Adam
GMOk I stand corrected, but have I not read of your doubts concerning Jesus and the corruption of the NT scriptures?
WJ
Here is another argument of a Jew
Jesus' genealogy, as we have it in the Christian Scriptures, does not allow him to be the Messiah:
1) If the virgin birth is true (which is highly unlikely since it goes against the grain of supporting Jesus’ messianic claim) then Jesus cannot be the Messiah.
2) If you trace Jesus' line through Joseph (by which you claim Jesus inherits the throne by adoption) in Matthew's genealogy, then you run into the curse of Jeconiah, and Jesus cannot be the Messiah.
3) If you trace Jesus’ line through Luke's genealogy (regardless of whether you attribute it to Joseph or Mary) Jesus cannot be the Messiah because it doesn't include King Solomon; it includes his brother, Nathan, eliminating any legitimate claim to the throne.
Please comment
AdamHi GM,
He is the son of David according to scripture
He is the son of a virgin according to scripture.Is scripture no longer your teacher?
Mattherws account:
Matthew's genealogy traces the ancestors of Joseph, the legal father of Jesus.
Abraham to David:
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, Perez, Hezron, Ram, Amminadab, Nashon, Salmon, Boaz, Obed, Jesse, David,
David to Captivity:
David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa, Jehoshaphat, Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, Amon, Josiah,
Release to Christ:
Jeconiah, Shealtiel, Zerubbabel, Abiud, Eliakim, Azor, Zadok, Achim, Eliud, Eleazar, Matthan, Jacob, Joseph, Jesus Christ
Matthew and Luke showed that Joseph was a legal parent, but not a genetic parent to Jesus.
By virtue of being Mary's husband, Joseph was considered the father of Jesus.
Since Jesus was born into Joseph's family, he was a legal heir.
Through Joseph, Jesus obtained a rightful claim to the throne of David.
NOTE: The Jerusalem Talmud indicates that Mary was the daughter of Heli (Haggigah, Book 77, 4). Joseph was the son-in-law of Heli. Luke could rightfully call Joseph the “son of Heli” because this was in compliance with use of the word “son” at that time. Moreover, designating a son-in-law as a son had scriptural precedent. Thus, Joseph was the son of Jacob, and the son-in-law of Heli.
Joseph, the father of Jesus, was one of Jehoiakim's descendants (through Jeconiah). Joseph's offspring could not claim David's throne because of the curse. Jesus laid claim to the throne of David (Luke 1:32, Acts 2:30, Hebrews 12:2). If Jesus had been born of Joseph, the curse would have been contradicted.
Also, God had promised David that one of his physical descendants would reign on the throne of his kingdom forever (2 Samuel 7:12-13). As explained above, Joseph was excluded from being the genetic father of the future king of Israel.
It was impossible to fulfill the requirements of both curse and promise by natural means. One man had to be both heir to and offspring of David, without being the genetic descendant of Jehoiakim. This problem required a divine solution.
God created a solution through the miracle of the virgin birth. Although Joseph was one of Jehoiakim's offspring (through Solomon), Mary was not. She was a descendant of Nathan, one of David's other sons (Luke 3:31). God's promise to David was fulfilled because Mary was the biological parent of Jesus.
The virgin birth also addressed the curse God had pronounced upon Jehoiakim. Kingship was an inherited right. By Joseph, Jesus inherited a legal claim to the throne of David. However, he was exempt from the curse of Jehoiakim because Joseph was not his genetic father.
So the miracle of the virgin birth accomplished God's will in two ways. First, it granted Jesus a legal claim to the throne of David. And second, it maintained the integrity of the curse God had pronounced upon Jehoiakim. Indeed, Jesus was not one of Jehoiakim's offspring.
CT………..Very well put, I believed you have Nailed it, as Jodi would say. Good in depth post, Sounds solid and accurate. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 06 2009,21:15) Which scriptures brother Nick?
Whether Christian or Jewish?
Hi GM.
A wise storeman can take good things , both new and old , from his storehouse.But you choose between them?
Islam shows how Jesus is this same Jewish Messiah because of the fact that it states that Jesus did not die but was raised up to God alive meaning that he could fulfill all those things in a single lifetime which is why when he returns he will be as described in revelations
Revelation 1:13-15 (King James Version)
13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Obviously if Jesus had died on the cross and was raised from the dead at that time he would not have continued to age as is shown here in revelation but he has aged because he did not die and when he returns it will show the military strategy of patience and the bible makes certain that you understand that it is quote possible for someone to live for 1000 years so it is quite acceptable to believe that Jesus will return being the oldest person to ever live and then after a thousand year reign he too will die and then the resurrection will come and all things will then be fulfilled.
The fact is if Jesus died on the cross he could not be the Jewish Messiah but if God has raised God up to himself until his enemies are under his feet then he must be alive.
Hi BD,
Kind of you to share your deceptions.
But we hope to follow Jesus through death and resurrection while your hope seems to be in your own righteousness.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 07 2009,06:07) Hi BD,
Kind of you to share your deceptions.
But we hope to follow Jesus through death and resurrection while your hope seems to be in your own righteousness.
What you see as deceptions are similar to what an elementary student sees when looking at college work(they just don't understand it yet)Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 06 2009,21:26) Mattherws account: Matthew's genealogy traces the ancestors of Joseph, the legal father of Jesus.
Abraham to David:
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, Perez, Hezron, Ram, Amminadab, Nashon, Salmon, Boaz, Obed, Jesse, David,
David to Captivity:
David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa, Jehoshaphat, Joram, Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Manasseh, Amon, Josiah,
Release to Christ:
Jeconiah, Shealtiel, Zerubbabel, Abiud, Eliakim, Azor, Zadok, Achim, Eliud, Eleazar, Matthan, Jacob, Joseph, Jesus Christ
Matthew and Luke showed that Joseph was a legal parent, but not a genetic parent to Jesus.
By virtue of being Mary's husband, Joseph was considered the father of Jesus.
Since Jesus was born into Joseph's family, he was a legal heir.
Through Joseph, Jesus obtained a rightful claim to the throne of David.
NOTE: The Jerusalem Talmud indicates that Mary was the daughter of Heli (Haggigah, Book 77, 4). Joseph was the son-in-law of Heli. Luke could rightfully call Joseph the “son of Heli” because this was in compliance with use of the word “son” at that time. Moreover, designating a son-in-law as a son had scriptural precedent. Thus, Joseph was the son of Jacob, and the son-in-law of Heli.
Joseph, the father of Jesus, was one of Jehoiakim's descendants (through Jeconiah). Joseph's offspring could not claim David's throne because of the curse. Jesus laid claim to the throne of David (Luke 1:32, Acts 2:30, Hebrews 12:2). If Jesus had been born of Joseph, the curse would have been contradicted.
Also, God had promised David that one of his physical descendants would reign on the throne of his kingdom forever (2 Samuel 7:12-13). As explained above, Joseph was excluded from being the genetic father of the future king of Israel.
It was impossible to fulfill the requirements of both curse and promise by natural means. One man had to be both heir to and offspring of David, without being the genetic descendant of Jehoiakim. This problem required a divine solution.God created a solution through the miracle of the virgin birth. Although Joseph was one of Jehoiakim's offspring (through Solomon), Mary was not. She was a descendant of Nathan, one of David's other sons (Luke 3:31). God's promise to David was fulfilled because Mary was the biological parent of Jesus.
The virgin birth also addressed the curse God had pronounced upon Jehoiakim. Kingship was an inherited right. By Joseph, Jesus inherited a legal claim to the throne of David. However, he was exempt from the curse of Jehoiakim because Joseph was not his genetic father.
So the miracle of the virgin birth accomplished God's will in two ways. First, it granted Jesus a legal claim to the throne of David. And second, it maintained the integrity of the curse God had pronounced upon Jehoiakim. Indeed, Jesus was not one of Jehoiakim's offspring.
Hi brother Constitutionalist,
No learned Jew will agree with the genealogies given by Matthew and Luke. If you are interested please gothrough the detailed discussion on genealogies of Matthew and Luke in the given link.http://www.messiahtruth.com/torahchat/counter-index.html/
under the topic “Genealogical Scams and Flimflams”
If that link is not working try this one
http://www.virtualyeshiva.com/I believe both the genealogies are developed from Jewish scriptures as per the understanding of the Gospel writer but are not literal.
Please think over
Adamgollamudi's source wrote:
Quote Be the seed (a direct descendant) of King David, through King Solomon (e.g., 2 Sam 7:12-16)
Your source is ignorant of what scripture actually states or he is conveniently forgetting that the promise through King Solomon was negated by King Salomon's own actions.
1 King 11:31-39(NIV) reads:
Quote Then he said to Jeroboam, “Take ten pieces for yourself, for this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'See, I am going to tear the kingdom out of Solomon's hand and give you ten tribes. But for the sake of my servant David and the city of Jerusalem, which I have chosen out of all the tribes of Israel, he will have one tribe. I will do this because they have forsaken me and worshiped Ashtoreth the goddess of the Sidonians, Chemosh the god of the Moabites, and Molech the god of the Ammonites, and have not walked in my ways, nor done what is right in my eyes, nor kept my statutes and laws as David, Solomon's father, did.
” 'But I will not take the whole kingdom out of Solomon's hand; I have made him ruler all the days of his life for the sake of David my servant, whom I chose and who observed my commands and statutes. I will take the kingdom from his son's hands and give you ten tribes. I will give one tribe to his son so that David my servant may always have a lamp before me in Jerusalem, the city where I chose to put my Name. However, as for you, I will take you, and you will rule over all that your heart desires; you will be king over Israel. If you do whatever I command you and walk in my ways and do what is right in my eyes by keeping my statutes and commands, as David my servant did, I will be with you. I will build you a dynasty as enduring as the one I built for David and will give Israel to you. I will humble David's descendants because of this, but not forever.' ”
In addition your source did not say what scriptures backed up his claim that the promise must be through Solomon. The Messiah is a descendant of David but not necessary a descendant of Solomon who lost the kingdom for his descendants because of his rebellious behavior.
John in his Revelations refers to certain Jews as the synagogue of Satan and for good reason.
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