The image of the beast, Rev. 13

[IM4Truth]

To know who the image is, we first have to know; who was the beast?
In Daniel 7:4,5,6,and 7, we read about four beasts, and in v. 17 we read what these beasts are;

Dan. 7:17 “These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.”

In other words, these four beasts are four world ruling kingdoms or governments, of which the fourth beast, the Roman beast, is the biggest, the baddest, and the strongest;

Dan. 7:7 “After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.”

In v. 8 we read about a peculiar little horn. The horns on this fourth beast are all Roman Kings; this little horn coming up among them shows he had his beginning during the Roman Empire. It says, this little horn made war with the saints.

Dan. 7:21 “I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them.”

It also says he would say mean things against God; he would have power over the saints, for three and a half years, and wear them out.

Dan. 7:25 “And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.”

Let's ask a question first; what is a saint?

Ps. 50:5 “Gather my saints together unto to me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice.”

Jesus was the first to make a covenant by sacrifice. Everyone that follows in his footsteps has to be willing and ready to sacrifice his life for Christ, make a covenant in blood.
The description given to the little horn in Dan. 7, are very similar to the one in Rev.13. He is called another beast, coming out of the earth, appearing like a lamb;

Rev. 13:11 “And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.”

This beast/ruler came up out from the people. He tried to appear as Christ the Lamb, but what he spoke, his doctrines, were devilish. He too was given forty two month, or three and a half years. The bible counts a year for a day, three an a half years = 1260 days = 1260 years. He too was blaspheming God, and made war with the saints.

Rev. 13:5 “And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.”

His power and influence would become so great, it would reach all over the world.

Rev. 13:7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them; and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

But his ambition for power was held back, because the beast, Rome, was still alive.

Rev. 13:12 “And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.”

This is what Paul was referring too in;

2 Thes. 2:7 “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth (restrained), will let (restrain), until he be taken out of the way.”

A Roman Emperor would not share his power with anyone. In 565 AD, Justinian the last Emperor of the east and the west died. Now he who restrained was taken out of the way. And the little horn becomes the image. He becomes the image because he structures his form of government after the Romans.

Rev. 13:14 “And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.”

His power had grown so much by now, no one would dare stand in his way.

Rev. 13:15 “And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.”

Before I go on let me explain who is the little horn and who is the image, so you stop guessing; The little horn was/is the Pope. The image is the Roman Catholic Church, with the Pope on top, which is Antichrist. What you see in the Pope today, is nothing what he was then.
If you dared to oppose him or disagree with him, you were killed.
Now this next verse has everybody scared to death, but if you read carefully what it says, it want.

Rev. 13:16 “And he causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads.”

Notice that it says “a mark” , That is plural. Indicating there are many “marks”, which are the doctrines of Antichrist, That you can receive in you right hand, excepting it. Or in your forehead, believing it. This has nothing to do with a number. Also his number will identify him for sure.

Rev. 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”

Hear again, people are scared of this verse, because they don't see what it says, it says; “the mark or the name of the beast”. We should know the name of the beast by now, Rome. What was the mark of Rome? The cross. The cross was Rome's mark a 100 years before Christ, unofficially perhaps, however after Constantine won his battle in 312 AD, it became the mark of Rome, and is the mark of the image to this day, and many other Churches.
Only those that had the mark, the cross, or the name, Roman Catholic, Priest, Monks, Bishops, were allowed to buy, being taught, or sell, teach others, the doctrines of Antichrist.

The number of his name; a name can also be a title of a man. The Pope gave himself a title, it is inscribed on his crown, a triple crown called the Tiara. It says on it in Latin; “Vicarivs Filii Dei”, which means, “Vicar of the son of God”. Some Latin letters have also a numerical value;

V I C A R I V S – F I L I I – D E I
5 1 100 0 0 1 5 0 0 1 50 1 1 500 0 1 = 666

Coincident? not with God.

Rev. 13:18 “Here is wisdom, let him that has understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”

The Pope, the Emperor of the Roman Catholic Church, is a beast, a form of government, even if just an image.

The scriptures I quoted are from the “King James Version”, the Ryrie study bible.

Read through it slowly and carefully, prove all things.
God bless

[acertainchap]

Hi IM4Truth

Just make sure not to delve too deep into this concept without keeping an open mind for deception and false doctrines. This topic and its meaning are not often understood, and many people have different thoughts and opinions about it.

Be careful not to delve into numerology as this is a form of magic that is condemned according to the Bible. Astrology and tarot card readings are a form of magic and condemned as well.

This looks like numerology to me, so please stop now and walk by faith and get information from learning it from God's word.

[kenrch]

IM4Truth, Who is the beast of the earth?

Rev 13:11 Then I saw another beast rising out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb and it spoke like a dragon.
Rev 13:12 It exercises all the authority of the first beast in its presence, and makes the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose mortal wound was healed.

This beast of the earth exercises all the authority of the first beast in the first beasts presence.The beasts of the earth is who makes the earth worship the first beast.

Rev 13:13 It performs great signs, even making fire come down from heaven to earth in front of people,
Rev 13:14 and by the signs that it is allowed to work in the presence of the beast it deceives those who dwell on earth, telling them to make an image for the beast that was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

Remember John was told to write what he saw. This was a first century man who saw fire come down from heaven. Missiles? Rockets? Space ships?

Rev 13:15 And it was allowed to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast might even speak and might cause those who would not worship the image of the beast to be slain.

So who is this beast of the earth? Some say America who looks like a lamb but speaks as a dragon! Who has gone to the moon and dropped the first atom bomb. Who has great church buildings of every denomination. But are those who destroy the earth.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

I'm not sure I have no revelation on this perhaps you or someone does?

[Proclaimer]

The word “image” can refer to an idol or representative of something.

Here are some random verses with the word “image”.

[kenrch]

It is said that the beast out of the water describes a populated area.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

So land is supposed to repersent a non-populated area or country. What country sprang out of nothing?

[GeneBalthrop]

t8 and kenrch.> issac newton wrote extensively on prophecy as well as a man maned Mede check out the Newton Project on the web he wrote more on bible topics then he Did anything else and some of his personal papers are just now comming to light .

he explains what these different symbols represent i think youl find it interesting Newton is said to be one of the smartest men who ever lived. also read the general scholum he wrote.

[IM4Truth]

acertainchap; I'm not sure what number you referring too, 1260 or 666. In the book of Daniel are
many numbers mentioned, that are for the end time; we are in it. They are meant to
be understood.
I know nothing about Astrology or Tarot Cards, I don't even read horrorscopes.

kenrch: The image of the beast is so called, because it is imitating the beast, the Romans,
in the way it rules and governs. Came out of the earth means, from among the
people, it was after all not a conquering kingdom, it was/is a religious organization.
America is not imitating any Country, it is unique, it fought for the right to be
unique.
Rev. 13:13, let's understand what heaven is. Heaven is a place were God's throne
is, a throne is a symbol of authority, and heaven above is the place of all authority.
There are heavens on earth;

Ps. 50:4 “He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may
judge his people.”

A heaven on earth is a place of religious authority. The Vatican is the heaven of
the image/earth beast. The fire coming down, was from his heaven, he ordered
the torture and executions of the saints, in public, in the sight of men.

1 Pet. 4:12 “Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to
try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.”
1 Pet. 1:7 “That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold
that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto
praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.”

Rev. 13:14, in the sight of the beast, or better with the help and approval of
the new kings of Europe, because Rome was no longer in charge.
Notice; in v. 12 he makes sure all the people worship the beast/Rome, in v. 15
he kills anyone who refuses to worship him, the image.
Read my topic “the deadly wound”
The whore in Rev. 17:15 is the same woman sitting on the beast in Rev. 17:3.
Sitting on many waters means what the bible suggests, all nations of the world,
deceiving them with her false doctrines. Sitting on means, she is influencing all,
but not in control of; she is not riding it.

t8: There are in fact over 90 scriptures referring to an image.

Thank you all for your input,
God bless

[kenrch]

Quote (IM4Truth @ June 24 2007,12:49)

acertainchap;   I'm not sure what number you referring too, 1260 or 666. In the book of Daniel are                     many numbers mentioned, that are for the end time; we are in it. They are meant to                     be understood.                     I know nothing about Astrology or Tarot Cards, I don't even read horrorscopes. kenrch:           The image of the beast is so called, because it is imitating the beast, the Romans,                      in the way it rules and governs. Came out of the earth means, from among the                      people, it was after all not a conquering kingdom, it was/is a religious organization.                      America is not imitating any Country, it is unique, it fought for the right to be                      unique.                      Rev. 13:13, let's understand what heaven is. Heaven is a place were God's throne                      is, a throne is a symbol of authority, and heaven above is the place of all authority.                      There are heavens on earth;                      Ps. 50:4  “He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may                                    judge his people.”                      A heaven on earth is a place of religious authority. The Vatican is the heaven of                      the image/earth beast. The fire coming down, was from his heaven, he ordered                      the torture and executions of the saints, in public, in the sight of men.                        1 Pet. 4:12  “Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to                                       try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you.”                      1 Pet. 1:7   “That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold                                       that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto                                       praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.”                       Rev. 13:14, in the sight of the beast, or better with the help and approval of                       the new kings of Europe, because Rome was no longer in charge.                       Notice; in v. 12 he makes sure all the people worship the beast/Rome, in v. 15                       he kills anyone who refuses to worship him, the image.                       Read my topic “the deadly wound”                       The whore in Rev. 17:15 is the same woman sitting on the beast in Rev. 17:3.                       Sitting on many waters means what the bible suggests, all nations of the world,                       deceiving them with her false doctrines. Sitting on means, she is influencing all,                       but not in control of; she is not riding it. t8:                   There are in fact over 90 scriptures referring to an image.                       Thank you all for your input,                        God bless

Quote

The image of the beast is so called, because it is imitating the beast, the Romans, in the way it rules and governs. Came out of the earth means, from among the people, it was after all not a conquering kingdom, it was/is a religious organization.

The image imates Rome in the way it rules and governs…..it was after all not a conquering kingdom. Rome wasn't a conquering kingdom? …it was/is a religious organization.

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire
'come down from heaven on the earth' in the sight of men.

“Down from heaven ON earth”.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The slaughter of saints will be seen as a miracle?

Forgive me Im4Truth. I guess I just don't get it.

I'm not saying you are wrong I'm saying I don't know.

Ken

[IM4Truth]

kenrch: No Ken, you reading it wrong;
The image is not a conquering kingdom;
The image is a religious organization;
The image is imitating Rome;
Rome was a conquering kingdom.

I did explain heaven.

The image has never performed any miracles or wonders, except make people wonder how
a man of God could be so cruel to people.

Ken, what you are guilty of is what all of us are guilty of;
r e a d – s c r i p t u r e s – t o – f a s t -,
influenced by our preconceived opinion of the subject.

Give yourself more time to think.
I really appreciate your input, God bless.

[kenrch]

Quote (IM4Truth @ June 25 2007,11:40)

kenrch:   No Ken, you reading it wrong;             The image is not a conquering kingdom;             The image is a religious organization;             The image is imitating Rome;               Rome was a conquering kingdom.             I did explain heaven.             The image has never performed any miracles or wonders, except make people wonder how             a man of God could be so cruel to people.             Ken, what you are guilty of is what all of us are guilty of;             r e a d – s c r i p t u r e s – t o – f a s t -,             influenced by our preconceived opinion of the subject.             Give yourself more time to think.             I really appreciate your input,  God bless.

Rev 13:11  And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

Rev 13:12  And he [the 2nd beast] exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 13:13  And he [2nd beast] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come DOWN FROM HEAVEN ON THE EARTH  in the sight of men,

If heaven is the vatican that is on the earth, then how does the fire come down from the Vatican on the earth?

Does the fire come from the earth, you say that heaven is the vatican that is on earth.  So how do you get that fire on earth came DOWN on earth?

Rev 13:12  And he [the 2nd beast] exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the EARTH AND THEM WHICH DWELL THEREIN to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The 2nd beast exercises all the power of the first beast which was Rome, Rev. 13:12.

The 2nd beast makes fire come DOWN from heaven, Rev. 13:13.

The 2nd beast deceives people by the means of “Miracles”, (the fire that came DOWN from heaven) which he had power to do in the sight of the [first] beast; saying to them [the people] that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the [first] beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.  It is the people, ~MAN~ who makes the Image, Rev 13:14.

The 2nd beasts tells the people they should make an IMAGE to the [first] beast~Rome~, Rev `13:14

Rev 13:15  And he [the 2nd beast] had power to give life unto the image of the [first] beast, that the image of the[first] beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The 2nd beast kills those who don't worship the Image of the first beast.
How do people worship the IMAGE?  By keeping her doctrines instead of God's Word.

Rev 13:16  And he [the 2nd beast] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
What is a mark IN  a forehead?  The mark is the doing of the doctrines of the Image which is not God's Word.

Rev 13:18  Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

As you said the Pope wears a hat or crown that has letters that add up to 666.

So the Catholic church is the Image of the first beast (Rome).  The word Catholic means universal so the name of the Catholic church is The Roman Universal Church.  Would you say that is an Image?

But who is this 2nd beast that causes all this?

SO FAR, Who is the most powerful country on earth?  Who made fire come DOWN from heaven?

IHN&L,

Ken

[IM4Truth]

Hi kenrch

Heaven above is used to show the place of all authority. Heaven on earth is used to symbolize
a place of religious authority. The Vatican is the heaven/place of the Popes authority. Mecca is
the heaven/place for who ever is the authority for the Muslims. The Buddhist, the Hindus, all religions
have a heaven/place of authority.

The second beast is the image, the fire he made come down was not real fire, only God can do that.
It was the fiery trials the saints were put through, ordered down from his heaven/place of
authority.

Yes, the second beast/image ruled exactly as the first beast/Rome did.
After 565 AD, no other Emperor of the east was able to maintain control over the west, so the
second beast/image made himself Ruler. It was not a statue of the first beast/Rome, the second
beast/image had build; “HE” was the image, “HE” made himself Ruler, and if you disagreed, you
were killed, Rev.13:15.

Yes, the Roman Universal Church is the image, and yes the image is the second beast.

All this has nothing to do with dropping bombs, by any country.

Thank you Ken, God bless

[IM4Truth]

Hi kenrch, this reply is to your post under “The mark of the beast.”

I do appreciate your enthusiasm.

Ken, sea and earth are metaphors. Sea does not mean ocean or real water, it means the sea of nations. Coming up out of this sea means, one nation grew stronger than the others and rose up above the rest, conquered them. The beast in Rev. 13:1 is Rome, but it did not rise up great, it had a small beginning;

Dan. 8:9 “And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.”

Earth; means peoples in that nation, Rome. And yes, there were many people from many different conquered nation. It is out of this earth, people, that a certain group, or organization, rose up, grew to the strength of a beast, a form of government. We are forgetting that it took this beast five Centuries, to become a beast; it too started out small;

Dan.7:8 “I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.”

It is this little horn, second beast, from the earth, that appeared as the Lamb, Rev. 13:11.
Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God. This second beast/Lamb, is the impostor. He appeared as Christ, but what he spoke, his doctrines, were devilish. Jesus said;

John 5:43 “I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”

How do you come to the conclusion that Rome and the Church were one beast?

It was the Jews that insisted to crucify Jesus, Rome couldn't find any fault with him.

It was Constantine who stopped the persecution of Christians, in 313 AD.
It was “the little horn, the second beast, out of the earth, the image”, that started the persecution up again in 565 AD.

All these different titles belong to one organization, “The Roman Universal Church”, with the Pope as the head of the Church, he is the Antichrist. It was he who would not allow to buy or sell the word of God, the bible. During the Dark and Middle Ages, if you read or owned a bible, you were executed.

I did address heaven and fire in my last reply.

Thanks again Ken, God bless

[kenrch]

Quote (IM4Truth @ June 27 2007,03:15)

Hi kenrch, this reply is to your post under “The mark of the beast.” I do appreciate your enthusiasm. Ken, sea and earth are metaphors. Sea does not mean ocean or real water, it means the sea of nations. Coming up out of this sea means, one nation grew stronger than the others and rose up above the rest, conquered them. The beast in Rev. 13:1 is Rome, but it did not rise up great, it had a small beginning; Dan. 8:9 “And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.” Earth; means peoples in that nation, Rome. And yes, there were many people from many different conquered nation. It is out of this earth, people, that a certain group, or organization, rose up, grew to the strength of a beast, a form of government. We are forgetting that it took this beast five Centuries, to become a beast; it too started out small; Dan.7:8 “I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.” It is this little horn, second beast, from the earth, that appeared as the Lamb, Rev. 13:11. Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God. This second beast/Lamb, is the impostor. He appeared as Christ, but what he spoke, his doctrines, were devilish. Jesus said; John 5:43 “I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.” How do you come to the conclusion that Rome and the Church were one beast? It was the Jews that insisted to crucify Jesus, Rome couldn't find any fault with him. It was Constantine who stopped the persecution of Christians, in 313 AD. It was “the little horn, the second beast, out of the earth, the image”, that started the persecution up again in 565 AD. All these different titles belong to one organization, “The Roman Universal Church”, with the Pope as the head of the Church, he is the Antichrist. It was he who would not allow to buy or sell the word of God, the bible. During the Dark and Middle Ages, if you read or owned a bible, you were executed.   I did address heaven and fire in my last reply. Thanks again Ken,  God bless

According to scripture water means a populated area, a multitude etc.

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Rev 13:11 And I beheld ANOTHER beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

The beast from the earth, the 2nd beast, exercises all the power of the first beast (Rome) that was before the 2nd beast.

Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

The little horn is the image of the first beast Papal-Rome. Isn't that the reason the little horn was more stout. The combination of church and government?

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the [first] beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Notice that it is Miracles that the 2nd beast performed. I don't believe that slaughter of the saints was considered a Miracle. The image is created by man it is man's religion that is in direct opposition to God's law, Dan. 7:25. Rome and the church didn't perform any Miracles to slaughter the saints they used swords, spears and other ancient weapons. How do you get fire means the slaughter of the saints and how is that a Miracle?

Are you saying that just the RUC is the 2nd beast? If so then what do the two horns represent?

Was it just the church that crucified Jesus? Was it the church that physically nailed Jesus to a cross? No! I think Rome had a little to do with it. Together Rome and the church makes the first beast. Together a secular government and the Image will make the second beast.

IM4Truth is what you have a revelation from God? Did the Holy Spirit give you a revelation about the second beast? Because if not then you are guessing just as I am!

IHN&L,

Ken

[IM4Truth]

Ken, all I can say is, I tried

[kenrch]

Quote (IM4Truth @ June 27 2007,23:16)

Ken, all I can say is, I tried

IM4Truth, I appreciate your input we should all share our thoughts on scripture but to me if it didn't come from the Holy Spirit then it is just OUR thoughts even though they appear to line up and come together. It's always healthy to discuss scripture.
It has been my experience that if not from the Holy Spirit then in some way we have missed something. It may be close but not quite right.

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

We as humans are always in a hurry we want to know NOW! I'm always willing to share my thoughts and studies on biblical subjects, sort of an educated guess, but nevertheless still a guess not coming from the Spirit of Truth. If on the other hand you are sure that the Holy Spirit gave you something to share please share that as well.
I don't want to discourage anyone from sharing their beliefs, as I said it's healthy to discuss scripture. But for me unless the Holy Spirit bears witness with my spirit then it is just an opinion. Perhaps you are correct and I'm (for some reason) not ready for that truth. For the most part I respect everyone on the forum and that includes YOU!

IHN&L,

Ken

[IM4Truth]

Ken, how do you know when you are let by the Holy Spirit, and when not?

[kenrch]

Quote (IM4Truth @ June 28 2007,23:50)

Ken, how do you know when you are let by the Holy Spirit, and when not?

It's unlike anything I have ever experienced! When the Holy Spirit visits me my spirit rises up! And there are the fruits of the Spirit especially LOVE which makes me spiritually HIGH!

Is that your experience? When the Spirit wants me to know something it always seems that my mind is on something else when HE visits. My mind may be completely on something else…. say work.. but then when He vists, the thoughts that were in my mind disappear and I'm completely tuned to Him. It is SOooooooooooo Wonderfull! And just think that is only a taste of what is to come!!!!

I hope that answers your question.

IHN&L,
Ken

[kenrch]

Oh, of course if it is not the Spirit then one would not be sure. And if you are not sure then it is your thoughts or the other guy.
When the Holy Spirit visits there is NO Doubt!!

God Bless,

Ken

[942767]

Hi IAM4Truth:

I promised you that I would print off your post entitled “The image of the Beast” and then make what ever comments that I had in response to your post.

You say:

“The little horn was/is the Pope.  The image is the Roman Catholic church”.

While it is true that the Catholic church has persecuted those who disagreed with their doctrine, my understanding is that the little horn is the Anti-Christ who will set himself in the temple showing himself that he is God, and that this is a future event that is described in 2 Thessalonians 2.  My understanding is that the Roman Catholic church is the “Babylonian whore, the Mother of Harlots”.

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Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name F17 of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded F18 to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? 5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue F19 forty and two months. 6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

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Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life F20 unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive F21 a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

It appears that the Ten horns or ten kingdoms and the little horn will come from the nations that made up the Roman Empire based on the following scripture:

Daniel 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. 26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. 27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions F56 shall serve and obey him.

Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. .

My understanding of the second beast that has two horns are the Muslims with the two sects, the Shia and the Sunni.  The appear to serve God, but their message is false, therefore, the look like a lamb but speak as a dragon, and they will cause those who believe their message to be deceived and therefore they will worship the Anti-Christ or his image which is that of idolatry.

The scripture states that those who worship the Anti-Christ will receive of the wrath of God, seven last plagues which I see as a future event which will happen after the rapture.

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9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

This is the extent of my understanding on this subject.

God Bless

[IM4Truth]

Hello, 942767

Thank you for your response.

The ten horns in Dan. 7:24, are the same horns mentioned in v. 7, so is the beast, the fourth beast, which is Rome. Horns are symbolic for Kings and Rulers, for power. Ten is not a number of individuals, it is the number of completion, or total, meaning all included. These kings that would arise out of this kingdom, are all the Roman Emperors that would rule Rome.
The little horn from Dan. 7:8, is in fact the Antichrist, he is the one that persecuted the saints, wore them out.
The ten horns on the beast in Rev. 17:12, have a different meaning. They are all the kings, nations, that make up the beast/head number seven. All these kings gave their power to this beast/government, the “League of Nation”.
Muslims have nothing to do with Antichrist. It was this religious organization, that later became the “Roman Universal Church”, that tried to appear as Christ “the Lamb”, but spoke as the Devil, because his, Antichrists doctrines, are false.
As it says in the scriptures of your quote; “if any man worship the beast and his image”, the beast was Rome, and his image was the “Roman Catholic Church. Receiving his mark in your forehead; the Catholic Church baptizes the infant by pouring water out of a cup on the infants forehead, making the sign of the cross. For the adults to receive “A MARK”, (look up Rev. 13:16) in their right hand, is to except the doctrines of the Church; and in their forehead, is to believe the doctrines and supporting the Church.
I have a topic on the rapture, you would do me a favor if you would read it, since otherwise I would have to do a lot of retyping, and I'm only using two fingers to do that, and my wife's fingernails have scratched of some of the letters.

Thank you again, and God bless

[Author]

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