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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2009,11:25) Hi BD,
Yes he was the son of man.
Mary really was his mother, not a surrogate.
Jesus was the Son of Man before His human birth. He said,Quote No man has ascended into heaven except he who came down from heaven, that is, the son of Man who is in heaven (John 3:13) thinker
Hi TT,
So there are humans in heaven with fragile mortal bodies?
Jesus is the SON of man.Mary really is his mother and gave him half his genes.
He was not a man till conceived in Mary.
But he had been in heaven.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,07:35) Hi TT,
So there are humans in heaven with fragile mortal bodies?
Jesus is the SON of man.Mary really is his mother and gave him half his genes.
He was not a man till conceived in Mary.
But he had been in heaven.
The term “Son of Man” in reference to Jesus is just a title. I have said this before.thinker
Hi TT,
Yes you have had to consign words to different meanings to maintain some supposed support for your untenable doctrine.
Bur Jesus called Mary his mother and we listen to him.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,07:59) Hi TT,
Yes you have had to consign words to different meanings to maintain some supposed support for your untenable doctrine.
Bur Jesus called Mary his mother and we listen to him.
Yes Mary was Jesus' mother. But she did not give Him the name “Son of Man.” This was Jesus self designation. Neither did Mary give Him the title Son of God.” The angel gave that name to Him. All Mary gave Jesus was flesh. That's it.thinker
Hi TT,
So if was just a funny name with no connotations that he was actually a son of man.[adam]He was not the second ADAM [man] as far as you can see?[1Cor15]
Quote (thethinker @ July 17 2009,08:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,07:59) Hi TT,
Yes you have had to consign words to different meanings to maintain some supposed support for your untenable doctrine.
Bur Jesus called Mary his mother and we listen to him.
Yes Mary was Jesus' mother. But she did not give Him the name “Son of Man.” This was Jesus self designation. Neither did Mary give Him the title Son of God.” The angel gave that name to Him. All Mary gave Jesus was flesh. That's it.thinker
I hate to be the bearer of bad news thinker, but Jesus did not give himself the “title” son of man.It was from a Messianic prophecy, like so much else that involved Jesus.
Psalm 8:4 “What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the SON OF MAN, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels…”
Quote (Paladin @ July 18 2009,03:14) Quote (thethinker @ July 17 2009,08:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,07:59) Hi TT,
Yes you have had to consign words to different meanings to maintain some supposed support for your untenable doctrine.
Bur Jesus called Mary his mother and we listen to him.
Yes Mary was Jesus' mother. But she did not give Him the name “Son of Man.” This was Jesus self designation. Neither did Mary give Him the title Son of God.” The angel gave that name to Him. All Mary gave Jesus was flesh. That's it.thinker
I hate to be the bearer of bad news thinker, but Jesus did not give himself the “title” son of man.It was from a Messianic prophecy, like so much else that involved Jesus.
Psalm 8:4 “What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the SON OF MAN, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels…”
Paladin,
I also hate to be the bearer of bad news but Psalm 8 in the first instance is a statement of the authority and dominion of mankind over the creation. It says that the son of man (man) rules over the beasts of the field, the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. This has nothing at all to do with Christ's rule.Jesus applied to Himself the term to Himself specifically when in the first instance it applied to mankind generally.
thinker
Hi TT,
Is it necessary to keep adding theological contexts so we can maintain the SIMPLICITY of the word of God?
2Cor11Quote (thethinker @ July 19 2009,05:58) Quote (Paladin @ July 18 2009,03:14) Quote (thethinker @ July 17 2009,08:06) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,07:59) Hi TT,
Yes you have had to consign words to different meanings to maintain some supposed support for your untenable doctrine.
Bur Jesus called Mary his mother and we listen to him.
Yes Mary was Jesus' mother. But she did not give Him the name “Son of Man.” This was Jesus self designation. Neither did Mary give Him the title Son of God.” The angel gave that name to Him. All Mary gave Jesus was flesh. That's it.thinker
I hate to be the bearer of bad news thinker, but Jesus did not give himself the “title” son of man.It was from a Messianic prophecy, like so much else that involved Jesus.
Psalm 8:4 “What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the SON OF MAN, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels…”
Paladin,
I also hate to be the bearer of bad news but Psalm 8 in the first instance is a statement of the authority and dominion of mankind over the creation. It says that the son of man (man) rules over the beasts of the field, the birds of the air and the fish of the sea. This has nothing at all to do with Christ's rule.Jesus applied to Himself the term to Himself specifically when in the first instance it applied to mankind generally.
thinker
Oh, sorry. I thought it was applied to Jesus.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2009,10:01) Hi P,
Scripture applies to term to any son of ADAM.
Ezekiel for instance.
Yes my friend, but Psalm 8 was quoted in Hebrews 2 and applied directly to resurrected Jesus.Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.Quote (Paladin @ July 19 2009,10:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2009,10:01) Hi P,
Scripture applies to term to any son of ADAM.
Ezekiel for instance.
Yes my friend, but Psalm 8 was quoted in Hebrews 2 and applied directly to resurrected Jesus.Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
No problem with what you said above. But Jesus called Himself the Son of Man before He inspired the author of Hebrews to apply the Psalm to Him.
thinker
Hi TT,
When did Jesus, a man anointed by God's Spirit, start calling himself the Son of man?
Do you think the Son of a man is God?
How odd.Quote (thethinker @ July 19 2009,11:16) Quote (Paladin @ July 19 2009,10:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2009,10:01) Hi P,
Scripture applies to term to any son of ADAM.
Ezekiel for instance.
Yes my friend, but Psalm 8 was quoted in Hebrews 2 and applied directly to resurrected Jesus.Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
No problem with what you said above. But Jesus called Himself the Son of Man before He inspired the author of Hebrews to apply the Psalm to Him. thinker
That's alright thinker.Just keep posting those little rationalizations.
It doesn't matter what scripture says, or when it was published , just so you can fit it into your little trinitarian theme.
Quote (Paladin @ July 20 2009,00:40) Quote (thethinker @ July 19 2009,11:16) Quote (Paladin @ July 19 2009,10:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 19 2009,10:01) Hi P,
Scripture applies to term to any son of ADAM.
Ezekiel for instance.
Yes my friend, but Psalm 8 was quoted in Hebrews 2 and applied directly to resurrected Jesus.Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour. 6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet: 7 All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field; 8 The fowl of the air, and the fish of the sea, and whatsoever passeth through the paths of the seas. 9 O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth!
Heb 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool? 14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. 2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; 3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; 4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? 5 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
No problem with what you said above. But Jesus called Himself the Son of Man before He inspired the author of Hebrews to apply the Psalm to Him. thinker
That's alright thinker.Just keep posting those little rationalizations.
It doesn't matter what scripture says, or when it was published , just so you can fit it into your little trinitarian theme.
Refute me then. How would we have known that Psalm 8 applied to Christ without the author to the Hebrews telling us? The Psalm at its face value is simply talking about man generally. Read it man!thinker
Thinker……….The whole Psalm is talking about (MAN) Jesus is SON OF MAN , Notice it says but we do not (YET) see everything under (MAN) but what do we (NOW) See ? we see a son of Man (JESUS) the FIRST born of (MANY BRETHREN) the first to attain to having all things under his feet , which all man will eventually have under their feet also. Jesus is One of US , not separate in any way. He is Just the (FIRST of MANY), (WE ARE JOINT HEIRS) with him. Come out of that foolish TRINITARIAN teaching Brother. IMO
peace and love to and yours………………………..gene
Quote (Gene @ July 24 2009,05:14) Thinker……….The whole Psalm is talking about (MAN) Jesus is SON OF MAN , Notice it says but we do not (YET) see everything under (MAN) but what do we (NOW) See ? we see a son of Man (JESUS) the FIRST born of (MANY BRETHREN) the first to attain to having all things under his feet , which all man will eventually have under their feet also. Jesus is One of US , not separate in any way. He is Just the (FIRST of MANY), (WE ARE JOINT HEIRS) with him. Come out of that foolish TRINITARIAN teaching Brother. IMO peace and love to and yours………………………..gene
Gene,
But it was unknown before the book of Hebrews was written that Psalm 8 was talking about Jesus.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 24 2009,05:47) Quote (Gene @ July 24 2009,05:14) Thinker……….The whole Psalm is talking about (MAN) Jesus is SON OF MAN , Notice it says but we do not (YET) see everything under (MAN) but what do we (NOW) See ? we see a son of Man (JESUS) the FIRST born of (MANY BRETHREN) the first to attain to having all things under his feet , which all man will eventually have under their feet also. Jesus is One of US , not separate in any way. He is Just the (FIRST of MANY), (WE ARE JOINT HEIRS) with him. Come out of that foolish TRINITARIAN teaching Brother. IMO peace and love to and yours………………………..gene
Gene,
But it was unknown before the book of Hebrews was written that Psalm 8 was talking about Jesus.thinker
Please express to me if I step out of line in responding to you, for it is my intent to respond to the image of God, with whom I disagree. I will let YOU be the judge.I think you are in error on this because, though WE did not know Psalm 8:5 applied to Jesus till the book of Hebrews told us, you have correctly pointed out, that in no way implies Jesus did not know it. He knew all the scriptures better than any other man who lived, and THAt is why he applied the term to himself. HE knew it was to be applied to him, and expressid it correctly.
Since the Psalm was written centuries prior to Jesus' application of the term to himself, and he knew the Psalms intimately, it is reasonable to say he knew the Psalm was applied to him, even as the book of Hebrews later confirms for us.
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