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Quote (Gene @ July 26 2009,09:13) Thinker ………where does it say he was not the GOD of Ishmael. GOD is the GOD of ALL People, as Paul plainly said. Is he the God of the Jew only? No he is the GOD of (ALL) People , not the Jews or Israel only. You should Know this brother. IMO peace and love …………………gene
Hi Gene,Thinker has a strange theology he has 3 beings that are God and he won't even let one of these beings be the God of Ishmael…
He reminds me of people that have Idols it's like all these Idols are mine and my gods alone…
Quote (Gene @ July 26 2009,09:13) Thinker ………where does it say he was not the GOD of Ishmael. GOD is the GOD of ALL People, as Paul plainly said. Is he the God of the Jew only? No he is the GOD of (ALL) People , not the Jews or Israel only. You should Know this brother. IMO peace and love …………………gene
Gene,
Where did I say that God was not the God of Gentiles? I said that He was not Ishmael's God.thinker
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 26 2009,12:38) Quote (Gene @ July 26 2009,09:13) Thinker ………where does it say he was not the GOD of Ishmael. GOD is the GOD of ALL People, as Paul plainly said. Is he the God of the Jew only? No he is the GOD of (ALL) People , not the Jews or Israel only. You should Know this brother. IMO peace and love …………………gene
Hi Gene,Thinker has a strange theology he has 3 beings that are God and he won't even let one of these beings be the God of Ishmael…
He reminds me of people that have Idols it's like all these Idols are mine and my gods alone…
bd,
After Sarah asked Abraham to cast Ishmael out of the covenant Abraham hesitated. Then God intervened and told him to do what Sarah said (Genesis 21). God Himself chose not to be Ishmael's God. I had no say in the matter.thinker
thinker……….Sarah never ask Abraham to cast Ishmael out of any thing , Sharh just wanted Hagar to leave because She was envious of Hagar having Abraham's offspring and Her not having any. The covenant had nothing to do with it. Show scripture where (Sarah) ask Abraham to CAST Ishmael out of any (COVENANT). God told Abraham (HE) would establish His covenant with HIS decedent Issac, Shara Had nothing to do with it. But today all may inter into the New Covenant no matter what the race if GOD calls them into it. GOD is the GOD of ALL people says Paul, not the Jew's only. GOD Himself SAID (ALL SOULS ARE MINE)> How can you FAITH profiling Here. Seeing Trinitarians are in no position to question anyone, seeing they are IDOLATERS AND PROGENITORS OF THE LIE ABOUT JESUS BEING A GOD. A lie which HE will abolish at he return. Come out of the Apostate Church while there is still time brother. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,06:50) thinker……….Sarah never ask Abraham to cast Ishmael out of any thing , Sharh just wanted Hagar to leave because She was envious of Hagar having Abraham's offspring and Her not having any. The covenant had nothing to do with it. Show scripture where (Sarah) ask Abraham to CAST Ishmael out of any (COVENANT). God told Abraham (HE) would establish His covenant with HIS decedent Issac, Shara Had nothing to do with it. But today all may inter into the New Covenant no matter what the race if GOD calls them into it. GOD is the GOD of ALL people says Paul, not the Jew's only. GOD Himself SAID (ALL SOULS ARE MINE)> How can you FAITH profiling Here. Seeing Trinitarians are in no position to question anyone, seeing they are IDOLATERS AND PROGENITORS OF THE LIE ABOUT JESUS BEING A GOD. A lie which HE will abolish at he return. Come out of the Apostate Church while there is still time brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Gene,
What Bible are you reading? Sarah asked Abraham to cast Ishmael out:Quote “9and Sarah seeth the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she hath borne to Abraham, mocking, 10and she saith to Abraham, `Cast out this handmaid and her son; for the son of this handmaid hath no possession with my son — with Isaac.'
11And the thing is very wrong in the eyes of Abraham, for his son's sake;
12and God saith unto Abraham, `Let it not be wrong in thine eyes because of the youth, and because of thy handmaid: all that Sarah saith unto thee — hearken to her voice, for in Isaac is a seed called to thee.
13As to the son of the handmaid also, for a nation I set him, because he [is] thy seed.'
14And Abraham riseth early in the morning, and taketh bread, and a bottle of water, and giveth unto Hagar (placing [it] on her shoulder), also the lad, and sendeth her out; and she goeth on, and goeth astray in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba”
Sarah said that Ishmael shall not be an heir. She asked Abraham to cast Ishmael out and he didn't want to do that. Then God told Abraham to do what Sarah said and Abraham did it. Abraham cast Ishmael out by the word of Sarah and God.
Are you a Muslim now?
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 27 2009,09:55) Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,06:50) thinker……….Sarah never ask Abraham to cast Ishmael out of any thing , Sharh just wanted Hagar to leave because She was envious of Hagar having Abraham's offspring and Her not having any. The covenant had nothing to do with it. Show scripture where (Sarah) ask Abraham to CAST Ishmael out of any (COVENANT). God told Abraham (HE) would establish His covenant with HIS decedent Issac, Shara Had nothing to do with it. But today all may inter into the New Covenant no matter what the race if GOD calls them into it. GOD is the GOD of ALL people says Paul, not the Jew's only. GOD Himself SAID (ALL SOULS ARE MINE)> How can you FAITH profiling Here. Seeing Trinitarians are in no position to question anyone, seeing they are IDOLATERS AND PROGENITORS OF THE LIE ABOUT JESUS BEING A GOD. A lie which HE will abolish at he return. Come out of the Apostate Church while there is still time brother. IMO peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Gene,
What Bible are you reading? Sarah asked Abraham to cast Ishmael out:Quote “9and Sarah seeth the son of Hagar the Egyptian, whom she hath borne to Abraham, mocking, 10and she saith to Abraham, `Cast out this handmaid and her son; for the son of this handmaid hath no possession with my son — with Isaac.'
11And the thing is very wrong in the eyes of Abraham, for his son's sake;
12and God saith unto Abraham, `Let it not be wrong in thine eyes because of the youth, and because of thy handmaid: all that Sarah saith unto thee — hearken to her voice, for in Isaac is a seed called to thee.
13As to the son of the handmaid also, for a nation I set him, because he [is] thy seed.'
14And Abraham riseth early in the morning, and taketh bread, and a bottle of water, and giveth unto Hagar (placing [it] on her shoulder), also the lad, and sendeth her out; and she goeth on, and goeth astray in the wilderness of Beer-Sheba”
Sarah said that Ishmael shall not be an heir. She asked Abraham to cast Ishmael out and he didn't want to do that. Then God told Abraham to do what Sarah said and Abraham did it. Abraham cast Ishmael out by the word of Sarah and God.
Are you a Muslim now?
thinker
AMuslim is one who submits to God that is all it means so don't be racist about it.ALL real Christians submit to God as Jesus did so if they were in Arab speaking countries they would say they are Muslims essentially meaning they are submitters as Christ was.
You don't believe that Christ submitted to God because you believe that Christ is God and hence you don't submit to God because you believe you are a god.
Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,17:13) Thinker ………where does it say he was not the GOD of Ishmael. GOD is the GOD of ALL People, as Paul plainly said. Is he the God of the Jew only? No he is the GOD of (ALL) People , not the Jews or Israel only. You should Know this brother. IMO peace and love …………………gene
Hi GBThen why did Jesus say “you are of your Father the devil”?
Only believers in Jesus death, burial and resurrection are Gods children, those born of him.
Why do you side with a muslim who doesn't even believe Jesus died for your sins?
WJ
Hi WJ,
So when Thomas said MY LORD AND MY GOD he was not worshiping Jesus as God in your view but recognising two?Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2009,15:07) Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,17:13) Thinker ………where does it say he was not the GOD of Ishmael. GOD is the GOD of ALL People, as Paul plainly said. Is he the God of the Jew only? No he is the GOD of (ALL) People , not the Jews or Israel only. You should Know this brother. IMO peace and love …………………gene
Hi GBThen why did Jesus say “you are of your Father the devil”?
Only believers in Jesus death, burial and resurrection are Gods children, those born of him.
Why do you side with a muslim who doesn't even believe Jesus died for your sins?
WJ
Jesus said you are of your Father the devil because they rejected the one sent by God this is the same reason Abraham rejected his people who like you believed in several beings being God.BTW, Gene didn't say he sided with me he simply said that your belief was not even firmly Monotheistic but you want to pretend he gave me more credit than he actually did.
I would love for Gene to believe as I do but honestly his belief is just fine the way it is. He worships The only true God and that is the only thing that matters to me, it doesn't matter to me what else he believes because whether Jesus was crucified or not all must still repent and be born again.
Quote (bodhitharta @ July 26 2009,23:19) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2009,15:07) Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,17:13) Thinker ………where does it say he was not the GOD of Ishmael. GOD is the GOD of ALL People, as Paul plainly said. Is he the God of the Jew only? No he is the GOD of (ALL) People , not the Jews or Israel only. You should Know this brother. IMO peace and love …………………gene
Hi GBThen why did Jesus say “you are of your Father the devil”?
Only believers in Jesus death, burial and resurrection are Gods children, those born of him.
Why do you side with a muslim who doesn't even believe Jesus died for your sins?
WJ
Jesus said you are of your Father the devil because they rejected the one sent by God this is the same reason Abraham rejected his people who like you believed in several beings being God.BTW, Gene didn't say he sided with me he simply said that your belief was not even firmly Monotheistic but you want to pretend he gave me more credit than he actually did.
I would love for Gene to believe as I do but honestly his belief is just fine the way it is. He worships The only true God and that is the only thing that matters to me, it doesn't matter to me what else he believes because whether Jesus was crucified or not all must still repent and be born again.
BDYou deny your own religion which condemns Christianity.
You say Gene worships the true God yet the qoran condemns Christians!
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2009,15:07) Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,17:13) Thinker ………where does it say he was not the GOD of Ishmael. GOD is the GOD of ALL People, as Paul plainly said. Is he the God of the Jew only? No he is the GOD of (ALL) People , not the Jews or Israel only. You should Know this brother. IMO peace and love …………………gene
Hi GBThen why did Jesus say “you are of your Father the devil”?
Only believers in Jesus death, burial and resurrection are Gods children, those born of him.
Why do you side with a muslim who doesn't even believe Jesus died for your sins?
WJ
WJ……….Jesus was simply saying they were adversaries of HIM and were from an adversarial Spirit, I suppose you also believe PETER was a real SATAN (Being) right, and one of His disciple was an actual (devil being). After all Jesus said they were. GOD said (ALL) SOULS ARE MINE. Do you believe that WJ. And again WJ you don't really believe Jesus truly died, after all GOD CAN'T DIE. But we are told BY Jesus that He really did DIE. Don't you see all the twisting and turning trinitarians have to do to try to support all their false teaching WJ. Worship who Jesus Worshiped and Pray to who Jesus Prayed to and Believe His words. FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. That is simple and clear no need for twisting or changing it's meaning and from the mouth of Jesus himself just believe it WJ> It will simplify your life brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,15:56) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2009,15:07) Quote (Gene @ July 25 2009,17:13) Thinker ………where does it say he was not the GOD of Ishmael. GOD is the GOD of ALL People, as Paul plainly said. Is he the God of the Jew only? No he is the GOD of (ALL) People , not the Jews or Israel only. You should Know this brother. IMO peace and love …………………gene
Hi GBThen why did Jesus say “you are of your Father the devil”?
Only believers in Jesus death, burial and resurrection are Gods children, those born of him.
Why do you side with a muslim who doesn't even believe Jesus died for your sins?
WJ
WJ……….Jesus was simply saying they were adversaries of HIM and were from an adversarial Spirit, I suppose you also believe PETER was a real SATAN (Being) right, and one of His disciple was an actual (devil being). After all Jesus said they were. GOD said (ALL) SOULS ARE MINE. Do you believe that WJ. And again WJ you don't really believe Jesus truly died, after all GOD CAN'T DIE. But we are told BY Jesus that He really did DIE. Don't you see all the twisting and turning trinitarians have to do to try to support all their false teaching WJ. Worship who Jesus Worshiped and Pray to who Jesus Prayed to and Believe His words. FOR THOU ART THE (ONLY) TRUE GOD. That is simple and clear no need for twisting or changing it's meaning and from the mouth of Jesus himself just believe it WJ> It will simplify your life brother. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Gene,
You are speaking falsely when you say that trinitarians deny that Jesus died. Abraham, Isaac and Jacob “died.” Yet Jesus said they were living.Quote I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not a God of dead men, but of living (Matthew 22:32) If the patriarchs could live though dead then why not Jesus?
thinker
Thinker ……….again with the shell game, Jesus was (DEAD) without life at all. Just like you and I will be,unless we are changed at the return of Jesus, and Jesus would have never raised from the grave if GOD the FATHER did not raise HIM , He was completely dead, helpless, without life. Just the same as you and i and all man kind who died are, ” For the dead Know not nothing in the day they die, there thoughts Parish”. There is (NON) risen yet but Jesus Christ as scripture says. If He was the first risen then no one could have proceeded him not even Abraham or David, as Peter said about David He is both dead and buried he is NOT RISEN. Thinker the SPirit of GOD does not die, but the person does. and until he raised and recieves another body he remains that way. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,13:15) Thinker ……….again with the shell game, Jesus was (DEAD) without life at all. Just like you and I will be,unless we are changed at the return of Jesus, and Jesus would have never raised from the grave if GOD the FATHER did not raise HIM , He was completely dead, helpless, without life. Just the same as you and i and all man kind who died are, ” For the dead Know not nothing in the day they die, there thoughts Parish”. There is (NON) risen yet but Jesus Christ as scripture says. If He was the first risen then no one could have proceeded him not even Abraham or David, as Peter said about David He is both dead and buried he is NOT RISEN. Thinker the SPirit of GOD does not die, but the person does. and until he raised and recieves another body he remains that way. IMO peace and love……………….gene
GeneStudy the scriptures, for death is the “body without the Spirit”.
The seperation of the Spirit/soul that lives in this body or temple is what death is.
Jesus was in hell (Hades) “Alive” for three days and three nights.
Paul said “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord!
WJ
Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,05:15) Thinker ……….again with the shell game, Jesus was (DEAD) without life at all. Just like you and I will be,unless we are changed at the return of Jesus, and Jesus would have never raised from the grave if GOD the FATHER did not raise HIM , He was completely dead, helpless, without life. Just the same as you and i and all man kind who died are, ” For the dead Know not nothing in the day they die, there thoughts Parish”. There is (NON) risen yet but Jesus Christ as scripture says. If He was the first risen then no one could have proceeded him not even Abraham or David, as Peter said about David He is both dead and buried he is NOT RISEN. Thinker the SPirit of GOD does not die, but the person does. and until he raised and recieves another body he remains that way. IMO peace and love……………….gene
Gene,
Your on the same side of the Sadducees on this issue. Jesus and Paul held to the view of the Pharisees. Death does not mean no life at all. If it did, then the universe would have fallen apart when Jesus died because it says that through Him “all things hold together.” Jesus said that He would raise up His body in three days (John 2:19-21). How could He have raised up His body if He had no life at all?The day Adam ate of the forbidden tree he “died.” Did he have no life at all?” Are you saying that Jesus was wrong when He said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were “living?” And if death meant “no life at all” then how could Moses have appeared at the transfiguration with Jesus?
You are a Sadducee!
thinker
thinker……….We haqve a delimima Jesus said He could do (Nothing HIMSELF) The Father in me (HE) doth the works. There are three places that say (GOD) raised Jesus from the GRAVE, and One that says (destory this temple and in three days (I) GOD , shall raise (IT) up. That was GOD the FATHER talking First person (THROUGH) Jesus, God who was (IN) Christ Jesus is The same GOD who is (IN) all true Christians , via the SPIRIT of GOD in them, but that does not make them a GOD, why because GOD Said there is (NO) other GOD besides ME> Thinker just believe what GOD and Jesus said and everything will fall into place brother. IMO
peace and love…………….gene
thinker……..In the day that ADAM ate he did die, a thousand years is as a day with GOD , so ADAM did DIE in the DAY he ate . Infact no one has lived over a thousand so all who ate die in the day they eat of sin. Jesus is the only one who has not ate of the forbidden fruit of sin. So he did not dies for HIS sins but he DIED for OUR SINS. AS scripture says. Scripture does not lie the Doctrine of the trinity does lie. It distorts our view of GOD the FATHER and Jesus our brother it is an IDOLATROUS TEACHING, and turns the image of Jesus into the MAN OF SIN> IMO
peace and love……………………gene
Quote (Gene @ July 28 2009,05:52) thinker……….We haqve a delimima Jesus said He could do (Nothing HIMSELF) The Father in me (HE) doth the works. There are three places that say (GOD) raised Jesus from the GRAVE, and One that says (destory this temple and in three days (I) GOD , shall raise (IT) up. That was GOD the FATHER talking First person (THROUGH) Jesus, God who was (IN) Christ Jesus is The same GOD who is (IN) all true Christians , via the SPIRIT of GOD in them, but that does not make them a GOD, why because GOD Said there is (NO) other GOD besides ME> Thinker just believe what GOD and Jesus said and everything will fall into place brother. IMO peace and love…………….gene
Gene,
It is no dilemna for the Trinitarian. Jesus did not mean that He did not have the power to do something on His own. He clarified what He meant by saying that He could do nothing but what He SEES the Father doing. In other words, He could not act OPPOSITE of His Father. This is what He meant. In the same discourse He said that He has the same power to raise the dead as the Father has,Quote For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom He will (John 521)
There it is! The Son has the same power to raise the dead as the Father has!The scripture says that after His crucifixion Jesus went down to hades and preached to spirits. How could He have done this if death meant “no life at all” as you say? He said that He would raise up His body in three days. How if He had no life at all? Was He lying when He said that Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were living? How were they “living” if death means “no life at all?” The resurrection had not happened YET when Moses appeared with Him at the transfiguration. So death for Moses could not have meant “no life at all.”
The Jews were divided on this issue into the Sadducees and the Pharisees. It is clear that you side with the Sadducees when Jesus and Paul clearly sided with the Pharisees.
thinker
Gene said::
Quote thinker……..In the day that ADAM ate he did die, a thousand years is as a day with GOD , so ADAM did DIE in the DAY he ate . Exactly! He died in the very day he ate. But he still had life. Therefore, death does NOT mean “no life at all.” Your view of death is totally unscriptural.
thinker
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2009,05:19) Quote (Gene @ July 27 2009,13:15) Thinker ……….again with the shell game, Jesus was (DEAD) without life at all. Just like you and I will be,unless we are changed at the return of Jesus, and Jesus would have never raised from the grave if GOD the FATHER did not raise HIM , He was completely dead, helpless, without life. Just the same as you and i and all man kind who died are, ” For the dead Know not nothing in the day they die, there thoughts Parish”. There is (NON) risen yet but Jesus Christ as scripture says. If He was the first risen then no one could have proceeded him not even Abraham or David, as Peter said about David He is both dead and buried he is NOT RISEN. Thinker the SPirit of GOD does not die, but the person does. and until he raised and recieves another body he remains that way. IMO peace and love……………….gene
GeneStudy the scriptures, for death is the “body without the Spirit”.
The seperation of the Spirit/soul that lives in this body or temple is what death is.
Jesus was in hell (Hades) “Alive” for three days and three nights.
Paul said “To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord!
WJ
So Jesus's body died for your sins? If that is the case then why be crucified he would have eventually died and given his body up anyway.So in what way did he take the place of sinners?
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