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KJ,
Jesus was the Angel (Don't get hung up on this – any manifestation that is NOT stated as being of God was called Angel) acting on the behalf of God.
God said “I will send my Angel before you”.One cannot “Test an Angel” for Angels only do what they are told to do – and have authority to MAKE IT HAPPEN and that's BAD news for anyone who stands in their way. An angel that does not fulfil it's commission is a 'gone' angel – a 'no more' angel… Therefore they could not have “TEMPTED” Christ – With what can you tempt an Angel? With what did they Tempt Christ?
KJ, the word is not TEMPT, it is “TEST”. They “TESTED” God to prove he was with them? ONE CANNOT TEMPT GOD – NOR DOES GOD TEMPT ANYONE, that is what Scriptures says – and even without Scriptures that is what I would believe.
Now, I would believe that God TESTS people – yes, THAT I can believe – and that the PATIENCE OF GOD can be Tested – and WAS Tested and is being Tested…everyday…
Quote (JustAskin @ June 04 2010,19:30) SF,
To say that one is one has two meanings.A cake cut in two is still one cake by substance but it is not one cake by part.
The original cake is now not the original cake. It has been divided and, physically, can never be put back as the original cake, no matter how minute the scientific, biological or chemical attempt.
Therefore, the divided cake is worth less than the whole cake (The sum of the parts is less than the whole)Now this is earthly. So what of the Spiritual?
God is Spirit. And all things come from God.All things are in God, from God and of God.
So God is always whole at all times because He is never divided 'outside' of Himself…indeed, there is no 'outside' of God.Within God there are many aspects (In my Fathers house there are many mansions…) These aspects include subordinate spirit creations, spirits from the spirit, Sons of God. Theses also, are part of God, so God is still whole, still one God.
Now, God creates Man and puts His Spirit into Man and makes that Man independent. So now God is not whole, except that as long as Man holds to His ways he will be part of God and God is once again 'Whole' (There is nothing able to be lost during the 'parting' nor in the union, unlike with the cake. As it is cut, parts are altered, moved, lost as crumbs, smeared onto the knife, squished together or part.)
Jesus is in perfect union with the Father, the Spirit of the Father is ALWAYS in union with the Father…it is HIS Spirit (What is the problem with this to Trinitarians. A Man has a Spiritm Jesus has a Spirit, The Father has a Spirit, the Father made us in His image…so..by Trinitarian thinking, Jesus is the Image of his Father and that makes him As God, his Father. Man is the image of God but is not AS God our Father!?)
So AS One, that deal with the spiritophysical.
What else, then, can ONE mean.
Let us sing as ONE… Are we then ONE body? Yes, and No.
Yes, we are 'Of One Accord', 'Of One Purpose', 'a united body of singers aiming to make a single performance from our disparate parts'.
No, because we are all individuals, dressed differently, talk differently, think differently, eat differently, have different family, or not. The One is only in the 'purpose', the purpose of singing in union.
So, Jesus is a separate being from the Father, as we are a separate being from him, from Him and from each other of man….but we can be AS ONE in purpose of uniting with the Father, God, in purpose of Worshipping the Father, God.
When this occurs we are said to be, once again, 'Sons of God'.
I have said many times in this forum,'To walk in the ways of God is to be a Son of God'
Think of God as ENERGY.
Energy cannot be created nor destroyed. It is only transformed from one state to another.
Coal is stored energy, made from compressed vegitation, trees, trees are made by energy from the Sun…. Coal, when burned, releases heat energy, also light.
The Sun is heat and light.All elements in the universe is composed of energy, energy that cannot be created nor destroyed but only transformed.
It is power and God is complete power, cimplete energy, the source, the giver and the receiver of energy, of power.
All power, authority, creation, and, ultimate destruction, comes from within God, from Him, to Him and of Him.
JA,God is a cake?
intresting…..
(pulling your tail)I disagree that man was meant to be indepenandt. Man was always mean to rely on God. God is life, if Man is without God than it is death. I mean i dont think that God ever lost anything about himself, its Man who gave God away. ITs like if we had a heart translplate surgery and God gave us his heart so we can live, and we decide to polute it and basically throw it away, and than we die.
“Man is the image of God but is not as God our Father!?”
but i dont understand such a thing, of course we cannot be the father. But Christ who created the universe, who solomon says in Ecc that everything that is made now has already been made. in other words Jesus created everything, there is nothing new. Collosians presents the idea that life consists out of Jesus. does life consists out of Us?Jesus and us are very different, in many ways.
1) Man is not God,
2) Jesus is not like us, sinners. (we all fell short)
3) His birth and purpose was so different,
4) yet Jesus partcipated in many events, before his birth, yet we have not done anything before birth. probably only in Gods mind.
5) If God is above space, time and matter, would it limit God to partcipate in Time? is this division?Again think the way people view trinity, is not the same as a choir full of people being one body.
I think the trinity view is usually compared as water. being vapor, liquid, and solid, yet the very same substance depending on circumstance.
to further explain this, in other words.
When there is pain, God is Jehovah-RAFA our healer.
God cannot be our healer if there is no pain.
God has full potentential to be healer at any time, but if there is no pain, than God cannot be a healer.Get what im saying?
here is another one, Mercy.
Mercy is nothign without justice. You cant have mercy if Justice does not exist. for what are you pardoned for if there is no just commandments to obey.Hate is nothing without Love. because one loves what is holy, one will hate everything that is not holy.
Thats the way i view God.
I dont know what to tell you about energy.
If anything i would consider God to be Life.
Life is the point of living. Energy does mean something is living. I perfer to look at God as the center of life, the very core, the Living God.But energy, i dont have enough knowledge of such to comment on that. it depends on defintion and what is said to be energy. most people think of energy like the Sun as you stated. when you say energy i think of the Sun, when i hear life, i think about God.
Much love JA,
You cut my cake,
ill cut yours as well,
(
)Hi JA,
Many times the ANGEL of God was sent to the Israelites.
Seven such spirits are in front of his throneHi JA,
Mal 3.1f speaks of the messenger of the covenant. Is this what you refer to as messenger can be read as angel? There are no supporting proofs though.Quote (JustAskin @ June 08 2010,07:41) SF, You have your cake – and you can eat it.
(Actually, does anyone know what that means?)
JA,lol. i heard the expression in spanish witch means they give you cake but you want to eat and choose what you want.
idk if that makes any sense lol. basically they give you a gift and you want to choose what you want as well.
Quote (JustAskin @ June 06 2010,07:33) KJ, Jesus was the Angel (Don't get hung up on this – any manifestation that is NOT stated as being of God was called Angel) acting on the behalf of God.
God said “I will send my Angel before you”.One cannot “Test an Angel” for Angels only do what they are told to do – and have authority to MAKE IT HAPPEN and that's BAD news for anyone who stands in their way. An angel that does not fulfil it's commission is a 'gone' angel – a 'no more' angel… Therefore they could not have “TEMPTED” Christ – With what can you tempt an Angel? With what did they Tempt Christ?
KJ, the word is not TEMPT, it is “TEST”. They “TESTED” God to prove he was with them? ONE CANNOT TEMPT GOD – NOR DOES GOD TEMPT ANYONE, that is what Scriptures says – and even without Scriptures that is what I would believe.
Now, I would believe that God TESTS people – yes, THAT I can believe – and that the PATIENCE OF GOD can be Tested – and WAS Tested and is being Tested…everyday…
JA,Jehovah told the people not to provoke His Messenger (Exodus 23:20-25). God called His Messenger “Jehovah your God” (vs. 25). We know this was Jesus!
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 09 2010,10:47) JA, Jehovah told the people not to provoke His Messenger (Exodus 23:20-25). God called His Messenger “Jehovah your God” (vs. 25). We know this was Jesus!
Unfounded conjecture, Roo. See my new post in Echad.mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2010,12:21) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 09 2010,10:47) JA, Jehovah told the people not to provoke His Messenger (Exodus 23:20-25). God called His Messenger “Jehovah your God” (vs. 25). We know this was Jesus!
Unfounded conjecture, Roo. See my new post in Echad.mike
I saw your post in Echad and refuted it there. The conjecture is yours.the Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 11 2010,12:21) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 09 2010,10:47) JA, Jehovah told the people not to provoke His Messenger (Exodus 23:20-25). God called His Messenger “Jehovah your God” (vs. 25). We know this was Jesus!
Unfounded conjecture, Roo. See my new post in Echad.mike
I saw your post in Echad and refuted it there. The conjecture is yours.the Roo
That's right, Roo. Just keep running.
So you didn't find the first to third person wording that Jesus used very similar to someone else?
Thank you God for continuing to lead me to the truth that refutes everything these trintarians say. Amen.
Mikebolll said:
Quote So you didn't find the first to third person wording that Jesus used very similar to someone else?
I didn't bother look for it because I expect you to indicate the page# and which post down from the page. When you say, “see my reply on Echad” you should give page number or link to the page. I had thought you were speaking about another example of the use of the first and third persons that I had already answered.Moses commanded the people not to tempt Jehovah as they tempted Him in Massah (Deut. 6:16). Paul said that it was Christ they tempted. (1 cor. 10:9). Ergo….
the Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 17 2010,06:14) Paul said that it was Christ they tempted. (1 cor. 10:9). Ergo….
How do you figure that? Just curious. The Greek says “kurios” in my interlinear.And this is the first to third person wording Jesus uses. He must have learned this also from his Father and God.
Matthew 19:28 NIV
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.Do you still think the first to third person wording in Exodus proves there are more than one Jehovah? Be HONEST.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 17 2010,15:16) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 17 2010,06:14) Paul said that it was Christ they tempted. (1 cor. 10:9). Ergo….
How do you figure that? Just curious. The Greek says “kurios” in my interlinear.And this is the first to third person wording Jesus uses. He must have learned this also from his Father and God.
Matthew 19:28 NIV
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.Do you still think the first to third person wording in Exodus proves there are more than one Jehovah? Be HONEST.
mike
Mike,Berry's Interlinear says “the Christ.” The NU text from which the NWT is based also says “the Christ.” Paul had just said that the Rock which guided the people was “the Christ” (vs. 4).
καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πνευματικὸν1 ἔπιον πόμα·2 ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς1 ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας3, ἡ πέτρα3 δὲ ἦν ὁ Χριστός.
http://www.biblewebapp.com/reader/
The words in bold are “the Christ.” It does not matter if some manuscripts read “Lord” in verse 9 for all the manuscripts agree that it was “the Christ” which guided the people in verse 4. Therefore, the Christ and the Lord are one and the same.
Again, your own NWT is based in the NU text which says “the Christ” in verse 9. Yet the translators changed it to “Jehovah.” Why did they do that?
Also, in verse 4 Paul called Christ “the Rock.” So Paul knew something Jehovah didn't know because Jehovah said that He knows no other “Rock” besides Himself (Is. 44:8). Jehovah said this after saying that He would become Israel's “goel” (blood relative purchaser, vs. 6).
Jehovah said that He would become Israel's blood relative purcahser. Who became Israel's blood relative purchaser Mike? It was not the Father for sure. See Strong's# 1350.
There is no moonwalking away from this one Mike! The Father was NOT Israel's blood relative purchaser. Therefore, Jehovah-Goel is none other than Jesus Himself, “the Rock” of verse 8!
Mike:
Quote And this is the first to third person wording Jesus uses. He must have learned this also from his Father and God. Matthew 19:28 NIV
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.Do you still think the first to third person wording in Exodus proves there are more than one Jehovah? Be HONEST.
There is only one subject in Matthew 19. But there are clearly TWO subjects in Exodus 23:20-25:Quote 20 “Behold, I send My Messenger before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. 22 But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. 23 For My Messenger will go before you and bring you in to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites and the Jebusites; and I will cut them off. 24 You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and completely break down their sacred pillars.
25 “So you shall serve Jehovah your God, and HE will bless your bread and your water. And I will take sickness away from the midst of you.This passage clearly refers to TWO subjects. Jehovah said of His Messenger, “MY name is in HIM. It is obvious that the first person “MY” is not the same as the third person “HIM.” There are TWO subjects mentioned.
The first and third persons are distinguished as TWO subjects throughout the section. So it would be natural to think that the third person called “Jehovah” in verse 25 is the Messenger who shares Jehovah's name in verse 21.
You should train yourself to allow a text to speak on its own before you throw other texts into it. You employ the “pretext” method which is not a valid method of interpretation. Show where Christ is speaking of TWO subjects in Matthew 19.
the Roo
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 18 2010,03:06) There is only one subject in Matthew 19. But there are clearly TWO subjects in Exodus 23:20-25:
Prove it I'm still waiting.
mike
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