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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 15 2010,10:38) Hi KJ,
You do a good Don Quixote attacking windmills everywhere.
Focus on important matters not battling people.
It is necessary to point out bias and preferential treatment don't you think?KJ
Hi KJ,
No your word sideshows are just attention seeking for you and a distraction for real studentsQuote (Nick Hassan @ June 17 2010,07:48) Hi KJ,
No your word sideshows are just attention seeking for you and a distraction for real students
Your recent posts today on “Satan is in the Lake of Fire” show who is and who is not the real student. “Spiritual timing” indeed.KJ
Hi KJ,
Seems nobody here agrees with what you think is commonsense.
Neither does scripture which is spiritual.Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:32)
Not good points Gene. JA sides with ED J by his silence. JA aggressively goes after those who say that Christ is God but not after ED J who says that the Holy Spirit is God the Father.It makes one wonder if JA is just anti-Jesus. Just wondering.
Kangaroo Jack
Hi Kang,Is your silence towards me compliance as well?
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 20 2009,05:16) Hebrews 3:1-6: 1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Verse 3 says that the glory of Christ is the glory of the builder. Verse 4 says that the builder is God. Therefore, Christ is God or He receives equal glory with God.
thinker
Interesting. Fascinating.So, Moses was faithful in all his house. What house was that?
Is that his parents house?
Is that the house, the tent he must have lived in when he was in the desert for forty years?
Is it the congregation of the believers in Israel, that Moses led?
Is the house that Moses was faithful in the entire creation? That is, the entire heavens and earth?Is the house that Christ Jesus built the congregation of those who believe on his name, the works he accomplished?
Is this house that he built include the entire heavens and earth?
God created the heavens and earth.
Jesus Christ was a preacher that taught the things of God. He built his church by preaching and teaching.
Jesus Christ did not build all things, God did.
Jesus Christ built a house not all things.
Thanks for considering this post.
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 15 2010,10:27) Quote (JustAskin @ June 13 2010,06:18) KJ, I do not side with anyone who speaks 'falsely'.
I side with the post or part post that is before me.
None of us has perfect grace from God and knows all so at one point someone speaks truth by revelation of God's Holy Spirit.
When I see that, I agree. Otherwise I may intervene, or post against a poster if I feel the spirit urge.
Do you not read my posts against Edj, against Nick, against Bod, against Mike, against …anyone… I am not partial.
Also, have I not spoken For you, For WJ, For Is1… Where such deserves credit for truth in their post?
I have chosen Mike as my 'Begotten Brother'. I have not held off from refuting even his posts so why would I do that to another whom I have not 'begotten'?
I have written several times that we should acknowledge truth where it is spoken to encourage the brother. But all too often the post reader, andespecially an ooposer, only seems to pick out the parts they want to refute without ever mentioning the agreement point. Did they agree, or just ignored or couldn't be bothered with those parts? It is never credited or refuted.
JA,Does Jesus Christ own us or not?
KJ
Christ “owns” us, the believers. See I Corinthians 3:23.And ye are Christ's and Christ is God's.
We are Christ's.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 09 2010,07:08) Hi KJ,
You may have to enlarge your trinity because Paul too is a builder[1Cor3.10]
Well said.If we take a slightly different vein, we could add from Psalm 18:1-2: God the rock, God the fortress, God the deliverer, God the strength, God the buckler, God the horn and God the high tower in addition to their “God the son” How many more are they willing to add? There is seven more. so we now have a elevenity?
Based on your photo, I conclude you are in the armed forces. If so, thanks for your love for this country and the sacrifices you make for it.
To All…………Jesus ask Peter who do you say i am, peter responded , you are the Christ the son of the Living God, Jesus said back, blessed are you Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood has not revealed that unto you (Jesus was flesh and blood) But my Father who is in Heave Has revealed it unto you, and i say unto you, you are Peter (Jesus recognized who Peter was also by that same power), then went on to say “AND UPON (THIS ROCK) (the power of GOD to get into the minds of people and reveal the truth) I shall build the Church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail. GOD the FATHER (IS) the ONLY true ROCK.
Psa 18:31…..> For who is God save the LORD? or who is a (ROCK) save our GOD.
Psa 62:6….> He (ONLY) is my (ROCK) and my Salvation: he is my defense, I shall not be moved. ..> 7..> In GOD is my salvation and my glory: the (Rock) of my strength. and my refuge is in GOD.
peace and love to you all…………………………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 29 2010,04:01) WJ………..Honor a man is one thing but worship as a GOD is quite another IMO. peace and love………………………gene
But Jesus said that “all men should honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father.” You don't honor the Father as a man do you? You honor Him as God. Ergo….Hebrews 3:1-3:
For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God.
Christ is counted worthy of the glory and honor of the builder. The builder is God. Therefore, Christ is honored as God.
No degree in rocket science is needed Gene. All you need is to take off your blinders.
KJ
Quote (martian @ June 29 2010,09:58) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ June 29 2010,05:48) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 29 2010,04:01) WJ………..Honor a man is one thing but worship as a GOD is quite another IMO. peace and love………………………gene
But Jesus said that “all men should honor the Son EVEN AS they honor the Father.” You don't honor the Father as a man do you? You honor Him as God. Ergo….Hebrews 3:1-3:
For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God.
Christ is counted worthy of the glory and honor of the builder. The builder is God. Therefore, Christ is honored as God.
No degree in rocket science is needed Gene. All you need is to take off your blinders.
KJ
No one ever said that Christ did not cooperate with God to build the house. the primary way he did that was to live and teach how a human being walks with God. H does not need to be deity to do any of it. that has more value then him doing it as a God.
Does man need the example of a God overcoming sin?
Does man need an example of a God being raised from the dead?
Does man need the example of a God wallking a godly life on Earth?
NO! He needs a man to use as an example of all these things to take real hope in them.
Hog wash! It CLEARLY says that Christ is counted worthy of the glory of the builder because He IS the builder. The builder is God. Therefore, Christ is God.For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God.
This is a clear cut assertion that Christ is God.
the Roo
Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 07 2010,13:58) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 20 2009,05:16) Hebrews 3:1-6: 1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.
Verse 3 says that the glory of Christ is the glory of the builder. Verse 4 says that the builder is God. Therefore, Christ is God or He receives equal glory with God.
thinker
This is a powerful text for Yeshua's deity. I remember using it in a discussion with a unitarian who held that Christ was a the culmination of a sucession of prophets. He was the greatest of them though still merely a man. But Hebrews 3:1-6 vaporises that idea. The contrast between Moses and Yeshua could not be more emphatic. According to the Hebrew's writer Yeshua is as equivalent to Moses as a builder is to a house. And the builder of all things is……God.
Who built the ark? God? Jesus? Noah? Who built the ark according to scripture? Genesis 6:14,22. Noah built the ark. God did not. Noah obeyed God and Noah built the ark.Who built the tabernacle? Whose design was it? God designed it, gave the design to Moses. Moses oversaw the building of it. Men built it. God did not build it.
Who built the temple? Not God.
Solomon had many people involved with the building of the temple. God gave the design of how to build it. But God did not build the temple. Men built the temple.
Did God build all things? No, the word all is the key.
God built all the things He built. He did build all things everywhere. Did God build idols for people to worship? No, of course not.
God built all things that God needed to build for the benefit of mankind. What man could build for himself, God had them build. The house that Jesus built, is a house that God did not have to build because Jesus Christ was capable of doing it.
Hi B,
Of course God was in him from the Jordan.
Just as the living God is in all the LIVING.[lk20.38]Mike wrote:
Quote First, nothing you posted clearly tells us that Moses was NOT God. What else do you have?
Stephen called Moses an “archon” (ruler) Mike. He did not use the word “theos” in reference to Moses.BUT JESUS IS CLEARLY CALLED BY THE NAME “THEOS” IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. YOU HAVE ADMITTED THAT JESUS IS CALLED GOD MIKE.
Quote Second, I am not a JW, and have never been one. I truly enjoy the NWT, and believe it translates many scriptures better than most other translations…………..but my favorite so far is the NIV. So if you're going to call a particular translation “MY Bible”, then call the NIV that, okay? Not the NWT.
The NIV is Trinitarian and it is your “favorite” Bible?
Quote Third, I like how one of your proofs that Moses isn't God is that he is a SERVANT OF God.
What! You use the word “servant” in reference to Jesus as proof that He is not God. You have argued this a million times. But now the word “servant” does not imply that Moses is not God. Honestly Mike! Jesus was a servant but was exallted to the status of “Son” which in Hebrew culture implied equality with the father. Hebrews 3 says that Moses was a “servant” in God's house and that Jesus is a “Son” in God's house. It says that Jesus receives “much more glory” than Moses which is the glory of the builder (God). Therefore, Jesus receives the glory God receives.Quote For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.[/color] Jack, do you claim that the KJV version is grammatically IMPOSSIBLE? I know you have your “preferred” version, but can you PROVE that the KJV version is a complete IMPOSSIBILITY?
Okay make up your mind Mike. You have just said that your “favorite” Bible is the NIV which agrees with the NWT. Yet you invoke the KJV.
The KJV is based in inferior manuscripts. The word “God” was added by some scribes. The Critical text which is based in the oldest manuscripts does NOT have the word “God” next to “despotes.” The NIV which you have now admitted is your favorite Bible does NOT have the word “God” next to “despotes.”
Quote 4 For certain individuals whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are ungodly people, who pervert the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. You said that I may call the NIV your “favorite” Bible. OKAY, YOUR “FAVORITE” BIBLE SAYS THAT JESUS IS OUR ONLY SOVEREIGN (DESPOTES) AND LORD!
You're really a piece of work Mike. You say that the NIV is your “favorite” Bible but then invoke the KJV which disagrees with the NIV.
Back to Moses. In numbers 20:16 Moses include himself ammong the delivered. He said,
Quote 16 When we cried out to the LORD, He heard our voice and sent the Angel and brought us up out of Egypt; now here we are in Kadesh, a city on the edge of your border.
Note that Moses included himself among the delivered.WHERE IS JESUS EVER INCLUDED AMONG THE DELIVERED MIKE?
Jack
Mike wrote:
Quote Third, I like how one of your proofs that Moses isn't God is that he is a SERVANT OF God. Yet you try to contrast that to Jesus, when in fact, Jesus is called a SERVANT OF God 4 different times in the Book of Acts. And each time refers to Jesus AFTER he was EXALTED to the right hand of HIS God.
TO ALL,It is the author to the Hebrews who makes the contrast between Jesus and Moses.
Quote 1 Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, 2 who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house. 3 For this One has been counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as He who built the house has more honor than the house. 4 For every house is built by someone, but He who built all things is God. 5 And Moses indeed was faithful in all His house as a servant, for a testimony of those things which would be spoken afterward, 6 but Christ as a Son over His own house, whose house we are if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end. Hebrews 3:1-6
The contrast is CLEAR! Moses was a servant and Jesus is SON OVER HIS OWN HOUSE. How can Jesus be a servant in His own house? Then it says, that we are His house.Mike did not reply to this at all. Instead he engages in pretext from the book of Acts and pits Acts against Hebrews. Mike says that Acts teaches that Jesus is called “servant” after His exaltation. But the word “after” is not in the text. The book of Acts says that God exalted His servant Jesus. It does NOT say that Jesus remained servant after He was exalted.
How was Christ truly exalted if He remained a servant after He was exalted?
Again, the book of Acts CLEARLY says that God exalted His servant Jesus. It does not say that Jesus remained a servant. This is special pleading on Mike's part. Hebrews 3 EXPLICITLY says that Jesus is “SON OVER HIS OWN HOUSE” in contrast to Moses who was a servant.
PLEASE COMMENT ON THE CONTRAST BETWEEN MOSES AND JESUS IN HEBREWS CHAPTER THREE MIKE!
KJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Aug. 07 2011,07:37) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 06 2011,15:15) Moses was also GIVEN power by his God to do many signs and wonders.
Did Moses have “all authority and power?”Did “all things “consist by Moses”?
Did Moses “uphold all things by the word of his power”?
Did Moses “redeem and purify the people of God to himself”?
Did Moses have “a name above every name”?
Was Moses the “Souce of our salvation and eternal life”?
Was Moses “submitted to YHVH”?
Moses was given power by proxy, but Jesus is the source of all things to the creation.
Was “all things made by Moses and for Moses”?
When will your eyes be opened to see that Jesus is the “God of all creation” and that makes him God Almighty!
WJ
Keith,Mike soon forgets doesn't he? It has been pointed out to him a ZILLION times that Moses was servant in the house of God IN CONTRAST to Christ who is SON over HIS OWN house which He builds HIMSELF and receives the glory GOD RECEIVES (Hebrews 3:1-6.)
Yet Mike still wants to continue to belittle Jesus to his own damnation! I would not want to be Mike on my death bed!
Jack
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