The Fruit Of Doctrine

[NickHassan]

Hi Shem,
you say
“The entire purpose of God is wrapped up in the plan to make all men like Christ.”

Yes. But making men like Christ is only part of the plan.
God wants men to fellowship with Him and uses them to cleanse his creation of evil.

“The awesome power of the cross is just the beginning. From that mighty work of grace we are legally in the plan of God and can boldly approach Him to change us into the very image of His son.”
No.

It was not a magical event that reconciled all to God.
All men are not yet able to approach God as their Father.
Only those repentant and reborn from above are able to do so.

“Even as Christ represented the character and heart of His Father, so should we represent Christ. Christ is our example.”

Impossible without the action of the Spirit in Christ being active also in us.
Copying Jesus in our strength is uselessness
You MUST BE born again.

[kerwin]

Quote (shem4name @ April 25 2012,05:36)

The premiss of this OP was not the preexistence. It was the fruit of doctrine. If you want to believe that Christ preexisted that's fine with me. As long as you agree that the man that was born and walked on this Earth did so without any advantage in power, knowledge or source of God then we have. If you do not believe this then to what ever measure you change Christ from us, to that same measure do you deny him as our example.

shem4name,

Matthew 6:33
King James Version (KJV)

33But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Romans 1:17
King James Version (KJV)

17For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Matthew 5:6
King James Version (KJV)

6Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Acts 2:38
King James Version (KJV)

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Galatians 5:22
King James Version (KJV)

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,10:51)

Quote (Ed J @ April 23 2012,22:15) Hi Mike, Jesus was the progeny of…………………… Ed, None of your post answers my simple question.  Do you think Jesus was just an ordinary human being like the rest of us, for whom God traded eternal life at His right hand for one bad day on a stake? Or do you think there was something more to Jesus and God's relationship than God just picking one of millions of human beings?

Hi Mike,

I will try to do your question a service.

I believe Jesus in his pre-existent state was GOD,
which includes all of us (the angels) and even Lucifer.

He stepped out of eternity to separate the spirit of Lucifer from the Godhead.
He was born human and just like the rest of us and had what I call a “mind sweep;”
no memories of a pre-existent state, like we have no memories of our pre-existent state.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:01)

Martian, YOUR reasoning says that God can't possibly be an example to us, because He has unfair advantage over us.

Hi Mike,

I agree, that is a bit odd?  

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[shem4name]

Edj I think it is strange that you come up with some “Mind Sweep” teaching. You must be confusing the Bible with a Star trek vulcan book.

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
You say

“I believe Jesus in his pre-existent state was GOD,
which includes all of us (the angels) and even Lucifer.”

The WORD was God.

But Jesus of Nazareth did not pre exist.

Angels and men were never God.

There is no GODHEAD, only God from whom comes His Spirit and from Whom came the Word.

Lucifer was never a part of God.

No preexistent state but you have come to this private interpretation.

Do you not believe in creation?

Are you of the demonic NEW AGE doctrines?

[mikeboll64]

Hi Ed,

When I read your post, I had to double check that it was you, and not Carmel, who posted that stuff.  

I'm sort of with you on the “mind sweep” thing.  I don't believe Jesus had his past memories until the Jordan.  I believe that when he was baptized, the Spirit that came upon him filled him with the memories of his past life in heaven.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Do you agree with his private interpretations including that all men pre exist?
Such ideas are not from our scriptures

The Word spoke through Jesus.[Jn7.16]
No recalled memories for men

[shem4name]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:58)

Hi Ed, When I read your post, I had to double check that it was you, and not Carmel, who posted that stuff.   I'm sort of with you on the “mind sweep” thing.  I don't believe Jesus had his past memories until the Jordan.  I believe that when he was baptized, the Spirit that came upon him filled him with the memories of his past life in heaven.

If what you say is true then Christ made all of his decisions from the Jordan forward on criteria, memories and knowledge not available to us. So much for him as an example. I cnnot make decisions in the same manner as him or based on the info.
That is not even rational within the plan of God.

[shem4name]

Quote (Ed J @ April 25 2012,11:34)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:01) Martian, YOUR reasoning says that God can't possibly be an example to us, because He has unfair advantage over us.   Hi Mike, I agree, that is a bit odd?   God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

It is not just the concept of an example. It is the idea of him being an example that we can actually become like. You cannot become like a creature that is of another nature or being.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2012,19:03)

Hi MB, Do you agree with his private interpretations including that all men pre exist?

Nope.

[shem4name]

Quote (Ed J @ April 25 2012,11:34)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:01) Martian, YOUR reasoning says that God can't possibly be an example to us, because He has unfair advantage over us.   Hi Mike, I agree, that is a bit odd?   God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Christ's call to the church is to follow him. the name Christian itself means follower of Christ. How can I follow Christ if all the decisions he made are based on criteria not available to me?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shem4name @ April 24 2012,19:12)

If what you say is true then Christ made all of his decisions from the Jordan forward on criteria, memories and knowledge not available to us.

Yep.  Do you think the Israelites were unable to use Samuel as an example, and follow him as their ruler because he was receiving information from God that the rest of them weren't privy to?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shem4name @ April 24 2012,19:15)

Quote (Ed J @ April 25 2012,11:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:01) Martian, YOUR reasoning says that God can't possibly be an example to us, because He has unfair advantage over us.   Hi Mike, I agree, that is a bit odd?   God bless Ed J It is not just the concept of an example. It is the idea of him being an example that we can actually become like. You cannot become like a creature that is of another nature or being.

Martian,

You have to get over yourself. You seem to think that by your own power you can become like Jesus is now in heaven.

You are to follow the simple examples he showed us: mercy, sacrifice, compassion, love God, etc……………and if you are ever made to be like him in heaven, it will still not be because of anything YOU ever did, but because of God's grace and gift.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shem4name @ April 24 2012,19:21)

How can I follow Christ if all the decisions he made are based on criteria not available to me?

I take it then that you are NOT a follower of God?

[Ed J]

Quote (shem4name @ April 25 2012,11:36)

Edj I think it is strange that you come up with some “Mind Sweep” teaching. You must be confusing the Bible with a Star trek vulcan book.

Hi Martin,

That is just a term to illustrate the absence of memories.
Do let made-up words become a stumbling block to you.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2012,11:38)

Hi ED, You say “I believe Jesus in his pre-existent state was GOD, which includes all of us (the angels) and even Lucifer.” The WORD was God. But Jesus of Nazareth did not pre exist. Angels and men were never God. There is no GODHEAD, only God from whom comes His Spirit and from Whom came the Word. Lucifer was never a part of God. No preexistent state but you have come to this private interpretation. Do you not believe in creation? Are you of the demonic NEW AGE doctrines?

Hi Nick,

Stating what you believe is great, but
what you believe is not necessarily truth.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:58)

Hi Ed, When I read your post, I had to double check that it was you, and not Carmel, who posted that stuff.   I'm sort of with you on the “mind sweep” thing.  I don't believe Jesus had his past memories until the Jordan.  I believe that when he was baptized, the Spirit that came upon him filled him with the memories of his past life in heaven.

Hi Mike,

You know how if you hold a paperclip to a magnet for a while,
the paperclip becomes magnetized enough to attract other paperclips?
Well Jesus could not sin, because of the nature of who he was before his birth.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 25 2012,12:03)

Hi MB, Do you agree with his private interpretations including that all men pre exist? Such ideas are not from our scriptures The Word spoke through Jesus.[Jn7.16] No recalled memories for men

Hi Nick,,

                        Our Preexistence

2Tm.1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling,
not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace,
which was given [[[us]]] in Christ Jesus before the world began, (John 15:27)

                       “The Word” in us!

John 15:27 And ye also shall bear witness (by the HolySpirit),
because [[[ye]]] have been with me from the beginning.
Acts 12:24 But “The word” of God grew and multiplied.

                   Jeremiah's preexistence:  

Jer.1:5 Before I(YHVH) formed thee in the belly I knew thee;
and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
and I(YHVH) ordained thee(Jeremiah) a prophet unto the nations.

                   Preexistant fallen Angels

Jude:1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you,
feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of
winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (shem4name @ April 25 2012,12:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 25 2012,11:58) Hi Ed, When I read your post, I had to double check that it was you, and not Carmel, who posted that stuff.   I'm sort of with you on the “mind sweep” thing.  I don't believe Jesus had his past memories until the Jordan.  I believe that when he was baptized, the Spirit that came upon him filled him with the memories of his past life in heaven. If what you say is true then Christ made all of his decisions from the Jordan forward on criteria, memories and knowledge not available to us. So much for him as an example. I cnnot make decisions in the same manner as him or based on the info. That is not even rational within the plan of God.

Hi Martin,

Do you believe Jesus lived a life free of sin before his baptism?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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