- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (journey42 @ April 07 2013,08:24) Hi Mike If you guys have been going on about this subject for years now, do you think anyone is going to budge? Has anyone made any progress?
Iron sharpens iron, journey. 90% of my scriptural rebuttals of the Trinity Doctrine came from my debates with Kathi, Worshipping Jesus, and Kangaroo Jack.All three are mentally sharp, and very knowledgeable when it comes to the scriptures.
The more they show scriptures that “prove” Jesus is God, the more I have to delve deeper into scriptures to refute those new scriptures they use.
Kathi is even better than Keith and Jack concerning this, because she never stops coming up with more and more “proof texts”. And each time she does, I have to sharpen my skills and my scriptural knowledge to refute those new claims.
I have just begun a discussion with a new member named Daniel in the “Where is God?” thread. And like all Trinitarians before him, he uses a “flooding” method to get his point across. (Ie: He posts SO many “Jesus is God” scriptures at once that many people would become flustered by the sheer volume – like I used to be.) But because of Kathi, Keith, and Jack, there isn't one scripture he's posted so far that I haven't already THOROUGHLY researched and SCRIPTURALLY refuted before. And since I will be coming at him from a place of scriptural knowledge, with nothing to worry about (because I already know how it ends
), I can try my best to show the humble, helping nature that you always show on this site – instead of attacking him. Perhaps, thanks to those who came before, I will be able to humbly show him some things he hasn't ever been shown by his Trinitarian pastors – things he's never considered.And if it turns out that Daniel is hard-set in his ways, and doesn't want to listen to scriptural truth and common sense, then perhaps there will be someone else later down the road. At any rate, whatever happens, I will “be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.”
There is a reason I do what I do, journey. It is the people on this site who DON'T believe like I do that cause me to delve the deepest into the scriptures.
I'm glad those people are here.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 09 2013,13:16) Quote (journey42 @ April 07 2013,08:24) Hi Mike If you guys have been going on about this subject for years now, do you think anyone is going to budge? Has anyone made any progress?
Iron sharpens iron, journey. 90% of my scriptural rebuttals of the Trinity Doctrine came from my debates with Kathi, Worshipping Jesus, and Kangaroo Jack.All three are mentally sharp, and very knowledgeable when it comes to the scriptures.
The more they show scriptures that “prove” Jesus is God, the more I have to delve deeper into scriptures to refute those new scriptures they use.
Kathi is even better than Keith and Jack concerning this, because she never stops coming up with more and more “proof texts”. And each time she does, I have to sharpen my skills and my scriptural knowledge to refute those new claims.
I have just begun a discussion with a new member named Daniel in the “Where is God?” thread. And like all Trinitarians before him, he uses a “flooding” method to get his point across. (Ie: He posts SO many “Jesus is God” scriptures at once that many people would become flustered by the sheer volume – like I used to be.) But because of Kathi, Keith, and Jack, there isn't one scripture he's posted so far that I haven't already THOROUGHLY researched and SCRIPTURALLY refuted before. And since I will be coming at him from a place of scriptural knowledge, with nothing to worry about (because I already know how it ends
), I can try my best to show the humble, helping nature that you always show on this site – instead of attacking him. Perhaps, thanks to those who came before, I will be able to humbly show him some things he hasn't ever been shown by his Trinitarian pastors – things he's never considered.And if it turns out that Daniel is hard-set in his ways, and doesn't want to listen to scriptural truth and common sense, then perhaps there will be someone else later down the road. At any rate, whatever happens, I will “be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.”
There is a reason I do what I do, journey. It is the people on this site who DON'T believe like I do that cause me to delve the deepest into the scriptures.
I'm glad those people are here.
Yes I hear what you are saying Mike. The same with me in the prophecy section.Look, I didn't mean to offend anybody, especially Pierre. I should of just butted out. I agree as you guys do. To me it's simple, not complicated. So much scripture to back that.
I could join in the debate if I wanted to, I think I would do well, …but what's the point? No ones going to change their view, then I would get frustrated, and it will stop me from learning other things. Surely after a few years you've pulled out all the proof? I know it says somewhere, not sure where, that we can rebuke a person 3 times, then after that leave them alone. It's God that gives understanding, and God that draws men to him, he doesn't really need us, for we all got a copy of the holy bible, and he speaks to us there, but we talk because we like to, and we preach because our intentions are good.
But I'm noticing lately that there is so much pride here amongst brethren. People are using spite as their weapon, when we should be using the scriptures. Spite doesn't prove anything, except that we've run out of things to say. In that case, it's better we say nothing.
Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) Yes I hear what you are saying Mike. The same with me in the prophecy section.
So you are confirming your own understanding on a DEEPER level due to the ones who understand things differently? Isn't that a good thing? You are learning even more scriptures that back your understanding, right? Isn't it good to be prepared for whatever the other guy can throw at you? I'd hate to be in a public place debating a Trinitarian, and have him hit me with a “proof text” I hadn't ever heard before – one that I have no immediate answer for.If that were to happen, it might be the one thing that causes a spectator to remain, or convert to, a Trinitarian. I'd rather be the one throwing out the knock-out blows that the TRINITARIAN has never heard before.
Perhaps then the truth would win some converts.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) No ones going to change their view……
journey, MILLIONS of people who USED TO BE Trinitarians are no longer Trinitarians. t8 is one of them. Millions of Jehovah's Witnesses used to be Trinitarians. Isn't that a close-minded view?Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) ……then I would get frustrated, and it will stop me from learning other things.
Hmmm……… Never had that happen. I only get frustrated when they come up with a “good one” that I hadn't considered before. But then the delving into scriptures to find a way to refute that “good one” is a happy time, not a frustrating one. The frustration doesn't STOP me from learning – it CAUSES me to learn more.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) Surely after a few years you've pulled out all the proof?
There are probably a millions things I haven't even thought of – or been led to. After studying mostly Trinity related scriptures for almost 4 years, I'll bet I've not even scratched the surface of the many ways that flawed doctrine can be solidly refuted.Like I said before, the more they bring up, the more rebuttals I eventually learn.
Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) It's God that gives understanding, and God that draws men to him, he doesn't really need us…….
True, but we are to be the hands and feet just the same, right?Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) But I'm noticing lately that there is so much pride here amongst brethren.
Guilty.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) People are using spite as their weapon, when we should be using the scriptures.
Keep reminding us of that. Eventually it will sink in, and we will become better teachers because of your reminders.Nice chat, journey. It's always a pleasure.
J42
always understand that if you have preconceived and fixed concepts of what scriptures are saying ,they may come from you own mind rather than from the truth of God ,we do not understand Gods mind but we can understand what as been written down for us ,but then again we have to understand it the way God message was intended to be understood ,NOT THE WAY WE WANTED TO BE
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2013,11:34) Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) Yes I hear what you are saying Mike. The same with me in the prophecy section.
So you are confirming your own understanding on a DEEPER level due to the ones who understand things differently? Isn't that a good thing? You are learning even more scriptures that back your understanding, right? Isn't it good to be prepared for whatever the other guy can throw at you? I'd hate to be in a public place debating a Trinitarian, and have him hit me with a “proof text” I hadn't ever heard before – one that I have no immediate answer for.If that were to happen, it might be the one thing that causes a spectator to remain, or convert to, a Trinitarian. I'd rather be the one throwing out the knock-out blows that the TRINITARIAN has never heard before.
Perhaps then the truth would win some converts.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) No ones going to change their view……
journey, MILLIONS of people who USED TO BE Trinitarians are no longer Trinitarians. t8 is one of them. Millions of Jehovah's Witnesses used to be Trinitarians. Isn't that a close-minded view?Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) ……then I would get frustrated, and it will stop me from learning other things.
Hmmm……… Never had that happen. I only get frustrated when they come up with a “good one” that I hadn't considered before. But then the delving into scriptures to find a way to refute that “good one” is a happy time, not a frustrating one. The frustration doesn't STOP me from learning – it CAUSES me to learn more.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) Surely after a few years you've pulled out all the proof?
There are probably a millions things I haven't even thought of – or been led to. After studying mostly Trinity related scriptures for almost 4 years, I'll bet I've not even scratched the surface of the many ways that flawed doctrine can be solidly refuted.Like I said before, the more they bring up, the more rebuttals I eventually learn.
Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) It's God that gives understanding, and God that draws men to him, he doesn't really need us…….
True, but we are to be the hands and feet just the same, right?Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) But I'm noticing lately that there is so much pride here amongst brethren.
Guilty.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) People are using spite as their weapon, when we should be using the scriptures.
Keep reminding us of that. Eventually it will sink in, and we will become better teachers because of your reminders.Nice chat, journey. It's always a pleasure.
Mike B.Trinies dont use rules of debate,they can say silly things
just to escape when cornered;and post many many scriptures and use strange words to confuse.There is no scripture that can proof that jesus is God,and God is Jesus. Some even say that Jesus is the sun god,
instead of the son of God. And God died on the cross for us.
So we are without God for 3/half days,cause he is in his grave. if he really died,who resurrected him? They say God:
But then he did not really die,it would be a fake death.
From here on they will start using colourful words to come out of the hole.I say these are good scriptural evidence to proof that
Jesus is not God.1.My god,my God why have you forsaken me?
2. Into thy hands I commend my spirit.
3.Father glorify thou me with the glory I had before the world was.
4.When the 1000yrs are expired,the son himself will also be subject to the father.(God subject to God?).
5.psalms 110. *The Lord* said unto *my Lord*,sit thou on my right hand untill *I* make *your* enemy your footstool.
6.Isaiah 44:6.Thus said the lord the *king of israel*,AND HIS REDEEMER the *Lord of host*: I am the first and I am the last and beside me there is no God.
They will use this to proof their doctrine;but it wont work
because it says; the Lord the king of israel *AND HIS* redeemer,the LORD OF HOST.As I said its a deep mystery;only him whom the son will reveal him can see through the mystery.
wakeup.
How about, “I go to my God and your God”?
That pretty much sums it up, eh? If the God of Jesus is not some triune being made up of a father and a son, then neither is our God – because Jesus said they are one and the same.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 05 2013,01:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 03 2013,21:32) All throughout the prophets, Kathi. Many times, after God let Israel be beaten down for her sins, He used similar language when referring to His coming vengeance against the nations that He let beat Israel down. Read Joel 3 for one such time. (Verse 13 even has the metaphoric “grape” language.)
I asked you when did YHVH do the event listed in Isa 63, not when did He bring victory to a confrontation. Isa 63 has Him coming from Edom and Bozrah:Isa 6
1Who is this coming from Edom,from Bozrah, with his garments stained crimson?
Edom and Bozrah represent Babylon and Babylon represents Rome, if I remember correctly.
LU,Bozrah was the capital city of Edom, the land of the Edomites. It is called Busaira, Jordon in modern days. What you heard sounds like a Roman, Catholic interpretation.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 11 2013,12:03) How about, “I go to my God and your God”? That pretty much sums it up, eh? If the God of Jesus is not some triune being made up of a father and a son, then neither is our God – because Jesus said they are one and the same.
Mike B.Here is also a good one.
Revelation 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. ***I AM THE ROOT AND THE OFFSPRING OF DAVID, AND THE BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR***.
He is deffenitely not Jehovah God.(period).
wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2013,11:34) Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) Yes I hear what you are saying Mike. The same with me in the prophecy section.
So you are confirming your own understanding on a DEEPER level due to the ones who understand things differently? Isn't that a good thing? You are learning even more scriptures that back your understanding, right? Isn't it good to be prepared for whatever the other guy can throw at you? I'd hate to be in a public place debating a Trinitarian, and have him hit me with a “proof text” I hadn't ever heard before – one that I have no immediate answer for.If that were to happen, it might be the one thing that causes a spectator to remain, or convert to, a Trinitarian. I'd rather be the one throwing out the knock-out blows that the TRINITARIAN has never heard before.
Perhaps then the truth would win some converts.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) No ones going to change their view……
journey, MILLIONS of people who USED TO BE Trinitarians are no longer Trinitarians. t8 is one of them. Millions of Jehovah's Witnesses used to be Trinitarians. Isn't that a close-minded view?Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) ……then I would get frustrated, and it will stop me from learning other things.
Hmmm……… Never had that happen. I only get frustrated when they come up with a “good one” that I hadn't considered before. But then the delving into scriptures to find a way to refute that “good one” is a happy time, not a frustrating one. The frustration doesn't STOP me from learning – it CAUSES me to learn more.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) Surely after a few years you've pulled out all the proof?
There are probably a millions things I haven't even thought of – or been led to. After studying mostly Trinity related scriptures for almost 4 years, I'll bet I've not even scratched the surface of the many ways that flawed doctrine can be solidly refuted.Like I said before, the more they bring up, the more rebuttals I eventually learn.
Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) It's God that gives understanding, and God that draws men to him, he doesn't really need us…….
True, but we are to be the hands and feet just the same, right?Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) But I'm noticing lately that there is so much pride here amongst brethren.
Guilty.Quote (journey42 @ April 08 2013,23:17) People are using spite as their weapon, when we should be using the scriptures.
Keep reminding us of that. Eventually it will sink in, and we will become better teachers because of your reminders.Nice chat, journey. It's always a pleasure.
Thanks Mike.I do wish you guys would come over to the prophecy section. We need people there with good reasoning skills like yourselves.
Come on, it's exciting. You will learn the same way over there
Quote (t8 @ April 10 2013,11:17) I like your post journey42.
Thank T8.I like the way you debate by the way, not just in this section, but over in the skeptics/aetheists section also.
Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2013,17:36) I do wish you guys would come over to the prophecy section.
I read some of it. I just don't know enough to put my two cents in yet. And there are so many people saying so many different things, and using so many scriptures as support that I get lost in it all.Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,11:27) Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2013,17:36) I do wish you guys would come over to the prophecy section.
I read some of it. I just don't know enough to put my two cents in yet. And there are so many people saying so many different things, and using so many scriptures as support that I get lost in it all.
Hi MikeOk, but don't let it intimidate you. Yes there are a few people saying different things and that is good because it gives us a chance to open up the scriptures even more. The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised.
Quote (journey42 @ April 12 2013,10:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,11:27) Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2013,17:36) I do wish you guys would come over to the prophecy section.
I read some of it. I just don't know enough to put my two cents in yet. And there are so many people saying so many different things, and using so many scriptures as support that I get lost in it all.
Hi MikeOk, but don't let it intimidate you. Yes there are a few people saying different things and that is good because it gives us a chance to open up the scriptures even more. The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised.
j42Quote The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised. this comment is enough to have controversy because it is you and your family that deciding how and when it is or is not ,
Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2013,13:10) Quote (journey42 @ April 12 2013,10:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,11:27) Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2013,17:36) I do wish you guys would come over to the prophecy section.
I read some of it. I just don't know enough to put my two cents in yet. And there are so many people saying so many different things, and using so many scriptures as support that I get lost in it all.
Hi MikeOk, but don't let it intimidate you. Yes there are a few people saying different things and that is good because it gives us a chance to open up the scriptures even more. The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised.
j42Quote The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised. this comment is enough to have controversy because it is you and your family that deciding how and when it is or is not ,
Pierre,It is up to YOU to look into those scriptures, not written by us, but by God himself, to discern the truth.
We three believe the same word. We are not divided. We have different ways of explaining, but are pointing to the same thing. You get offended because these scriptures often prove you wrong. Is that fair? Are YOU being truthful.
If I'm corrected with scripture, I will humble myself. I have yet to see you do that Pierre.
Quote (journey42 @ April 13 2013,13:12) Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2013,13:10) Quote (journey42 @ April 12 2013,10:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,11:27) Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2013,17:36) I do wish you guys would come over to the prophecy section.
I read some of it. I just don't know enough to put my two cents in yet. And there are so many people saying so many different things, and using so many scriptures as support that I get lost in it all.
Hi MikeOk, but don't let it intimidate you. Yes there are a few people saying different things and that is good because it gives us a chance to open up the scriptures even more. The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised.
j42Quote The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised. this comment is enough to have controversy because it is you and your family that deciding how and when it is or is not ,
Pierre,It is up to YOU to look into those scriptures, not written by us, but by God himself, to discern the truth.
We three believe the same word. We are not divided. We have different ways of explaining, but are pointing to the same thing. You get offended because these scriptures often prove you wrong. Is that fair? Are YOU being truthful.
If I'm corrected with scripture, I will humble myself. I have yet to see you do that Pierre.
j42in my reply to you i have told you that you would claim the last word ,
and so their is nothing that any one can do ,like when i told you that most scriptures related to Israel (physical) as been accomplish and fulfilled in 70 AD and sins Christ we do no longer talk about the physical nation of Israel but about the spiritual one with the city of God being Jerusalem,
but you came up with some scriptures that you have decided that this was not fulfilled and so should be to come ;;this is your own view not in scriptures , and so you declared yourself true and all other true-less ,so how could you be corrected because you are in fact controlling the outcome ,
Quote (terraricca @ April 14 2013,13:25) Quote (journey42 @ April 13 2013,13:12) Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2013,13:10) Quote (journey42 @ April 12 2013,10:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,11:27) Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2013,17:36) I do wish you guys would come over to the prophecy section.
I read some of it. I just don't know enough to put my two cents in yet. And there are so many people saying so many different things, and using so many scriptures as support that I get lost in it all.
Hi MikeOk, but don't let it intimidate you. Yes there are a few people saying different things and that is good because it gives us a chance to open up the scriptures even more. The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised.
j42Quote The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised. this comment is enough to have controversy because it is you and your family that deciding how and when it is or is not ,
Pierre,It is up to YOU to look into those scriptures, not written by us, but by God himself, to discern the truth.
We three believe the same word. We are not divided. We have different ways of explaining, but are pointing to the same thing. You get offended because these scriptures often prove you wrong. Is that fair? Are YOU being truthful.
If I'm corrected with scripture, I will humble myself. I have yet to see you do that Pierre.
j42in my reply to you i have told you that you would claim the last word ,
and so their is nothing that any one can do ,like when i told you that most scriptures related to Israel (physical) as been accomplish and fulfilled in 70 AD and sins Christ we do no longer talk about the physical nation of Israel but about the spiritual one with the city of God being Jerusalem,
but you came up with some scriptures that you have decided that this was not fulfilled and so should be to come ;;this is your own view not in scriptures , and so you declared yourself true and all other true-less ,so how could you be corrected because you are in fact controlling the outcome ,
PierreYou have been shown proof for the last two years, and rejected the scriptures. If you didn't have such a negative attitude, then maybe you could of excelled in knowledge. We can only water, but it's God that gives the increase. If he is not increasing your knowledge, then it best you take it up with him. Maybe you are not weaned off the milk yet, for if you were, you would not say half the things the say. But we need resistance, and we need untruths, because it gives us an opportunity to open up the scriptures even more. There is a light that shines in the darkness, and that light is truth. It cannot be comprehended by all.
Quote (journey42 @ April 06 2013,23:28) Quote (terraricca @ April 06 2013,14:59) I start to believe that Kathy is like a car salesman ,that as a rotten car to sell ,he knows but it does not stop him from trying to sell it to an unaware individual ,:D
Pierre,From what I've read, Kathy is a real lady, and doesn't have spite in her heart. If she believes different to us, then you shouldn't demean her.
Thank you Journey42! May God bless you!!Quote (journey42 @ April 14 2013,10:22) Quote (terraricca @ April 14 2013,13:25) Quote (journey42 @ April 13 2013,13:12) Quote (terraricca @ April 13 2013,13:10) Quote (journey42 @ April 12 2013,10:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 12 2013,11:27) Quote (journey42 @ April 11 2013,17:36) I do wish you guys would come over to the prophecy section.
I read some of it. I just don't know enough to put my two cents in yet. And there are so many people saying so many different things, and using so many scriptures as support that I get lost in it all.
Hi MikeOk, but don't let it intimidate you. Yes there are a few people saying different things and that is good because it gives us a chance to open up the scriptures even more. The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised.
j42Quote The answers are in the scriptures, and not everything is symbolised. this comment is enough to have controversy because it is you and your family that deciding how and when it is or is not ,
Pierre,It is up to YOU to look into those scriptures, not written by us, but by God himself, to discern the truth.
We three believe the same word. We are not divided. We have different ways of explaining, but are pointing to the same thing. You get offended because these scriptures often prove you wrong. Is that fair? Are YOU being truthful.
If I'm corrected with scripture, I will humble myself. I have yet to see you do that Pierre.
j42in my reply to you i have told you that you would claim the last word ,
and so their is nothing that any one can do ,like when i told you that most scriptures related to Israel (physical) as been accomplish and fulfilled in 70 AD and sins Christ we do no longer talk about the physical nation of Israel but about the spiritual one with the city of God being Jerusalem,
but you came up with some scriptures that you have decided that this was not fulfilled and so should be to come ;;this is your own view not in scriptures , and so you declared yourself true and all other true-less ,so how could you be corrected because you are in fact controlling the outcome ,
PierreYou have been shown proof for the last two years, and rejected the scriptures. If you didn't have such a negative attitude, then maybe you could of excelled in knowledge. We can only water, but it's God that gives the increase. If he is not increasing your knowledge, then it best you take it up with him. Maybe you are not weaned off the milk yet, for if you were, you would not say half the things the say. But we need resistance, and we need untruths, because it gives us an opportunity to open up the scriptures even more. There is a light that shines in the darkness, and that light is truth. It cannot be comprehended by all.
Wisdom will stand on his own production
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
