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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2013,20:10) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 20 2013,13:28) Quote
These two things are in opposition to each other, Kathi. One cannot BE the President, and also the SERVANT OF the President. I see no scriptural reason why this obvious and logical fact would be different for Almighty God.And this here is a big road block for you, you will be amazed if you prepare your heart to actually accept this possibility. Pray for God to show you if this is possible.
Instead of praying that God would “open my eyes” to nonsensical things, I will instead thank Him for the gift of common sense that He gave most of us.God is one. And the servant of God is another. See? Common sense.
Thank you God (not Gods).
You ought to seek God's wisdom rather than the common sense of men.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,15:08) Therefore, it's like Satan being called “THE elohim of Ekron” – since there are always qualifyers in the case of Jesus and Satan? And the definite article being used for Jesus doesn't imply HE'S God Almighty anymore than the definite article being used for Satan implies HE'S God Almighty, right?
Absolutely. When preceded with the definite article, then context is important because the definite article identifies WHO the theos is being spoken of.Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,18:18) You ought to seek God's wisdom rather than the common sense of men.
God's wisdom does not contradict his own word.
That is common sense.Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,18:16) I am pretty sure that God would blind your mind to any truth that He has given me because of your attitude shown here.
On the other hand, Jesus had a not so different attitude with the Pharisees. So his actions are not the issue as far as what is true. Of greater importance here is whos' teaching if any is scriptural. I have personally found your understanding to be that, YOUR understanding.Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,10:16) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2013,15:19) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,01:29) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2013,23:46) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2013,01:23) Quote Kathi, this “other truth” will be able to be read by us in the SCRIPTURES, right? It is all scriptural!!
KathiI would say yes to what you say ,But not in the order you present it ,
See,that is we're religion sectarism is build on ,personal interpretation ,
As soon you start personal interpretation ,Christ dies again ,and Gods word is denied again,
And the children of God are killed for those personal reasons.
History in repeat motion ,
Huh?
Kathiwhen you say “its all scriptural ” I understand that you mean that it includes ALL of your new views that you claim to be truth in scriptures ,and so based my answer to this ;
terraricca,
You are so obviously stiff necked. When you start slinging mud before you even hear and see…that is a clear sign. I am pretty sure that God would blind your mind to any truth that He has given me because of your attitude shown here. I wouldn't blame Him, either. A stiff neck=not seeing the glorious gospel.2 Cor 4:4
Those whose intellects The God of this world has blinded, because they do not believe, lest the light of The Gospel of the glory of The Messiah, who is the image of God, should dawn upon them.Job 17:4
For their heart Thou hast hidden From understanding, Therefore Thou dost not exalt them.
Kathiis that the reasons for you to interpret the word of God in your personal views
to me if you have to interpret scriptures with your own mind it seems that it is your personal view that you are putting ahead of God's intended view .
then calling me names or given me certain criteria in which i suppose to see my self in ,is not called for ,
t8, Terraricca
If i am interpreting things according to my personal view, how come I have so much unity with other Christian's? Think about it. It isn't like I am telling you something new if most Christians have been believing this since the early church.
For instance, it seems that:
Most Christians think Jesus is Jehovah.
Most Christians believe the Son is eternal.
Most Christians believe in the unity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Most Christians boldly worship Jesus as their mighty God.There should be unity in understanding among Christians since Christians have the same Holy Spirit teaching them. What I teach on here only appears like they are my unique views because this site is attracting mostly non-fundamental Christians which have a different spirit and/or are blinded to the other. So, if you are being blinded, then I would expect that you cannot understand what is true. It is interesting to observe you.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 22 2013,05:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,15:08) Therefore, it's like Satan being called “THE elohim of Ekron” – since there are always qualifyers in the case of Jesus and Satan? And the definite article being used for Jesus doesn't imply HE'S God Almighty anymore than the definite article being used for Satan implies HE'S God Almighty, right?
Absolutely. When preceded with the definite article, then context is important because the definite article identifies WHO the theos is who is being spoken of.
If you understand that, then why can you not boldly declare Jesus as the God over all and the God of the church? hmmm?Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2013,12:20) Quote (t8 @ Feb. 22 2013,05:06) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 22 2013,15:08) Therefore, it's like Satan being called “THE elohim of Ekron” – since there are always qualifyers in the case of Jesus and Satan? And the definite article being used for Jesus doesn't imply HE'S God Almighty anymore than the definite article being used for Satan implies HE'S God Almighty, right?
Absolutely. When preceded with the definite article, then context is important because the definite article identifies WHO the theos is who is being spoken of.
If you understand that, then why can you not boldly declare Jesus as the God over all and the God of the church? hmmm?
Jesus is the son of God who is over all and in all.
That God works primarily through his son.That is what I proclaim and this is not my personal view. Rather I changed my personal view to that which is in scripture. My mind was renewed..
You need to renew YOUR mind with the Word of God, not renew the Word of God with your mind.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2013,12:20) If you understand that, then why can you not boldly declare Jesus as the God over all and the God of the church? hmmm?
Here is the hmmm moment and the hmmm should be directed at you.Ephesians 4:6
one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.See that. Your view leads you to believe that Jesus is the God over all, when it is actually clearly said that the Father is the one God who is over all. That same Father BTW is Jesus God and our God.
A perfect example why we consider your teachings are false. You go to all these lengths to prove a so-called hidden truth, and then a very real visible truth blows your whole doctrine out of the water.
And then there are verses like this:
Romans 9:5 And the Patriarchs; and from them The Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is The God Who is over all, to Whom are praises and blessings to the eternity of eternities, amen.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2013,04:18) t8, Terraricca If i am interpreting things according to my personal view, how come I have so much unity with other Christian's? Think about it. It isn't like I am telling you something new if most Christians have been believing this since the early church.
For instance, it seems that:
Most Christians think Jesus is Jehovah.
Most Christians believe the Son is eternal.
Most Christians believe in the unity of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Most Christians boldly worship Jesus as their mighty God.There should be unity in understanding among Christians since Christians have the same Holy Spirit teaching them. What I teach on here only appears like they are my unique views because this site is attracting mostly non-fundamental Christians which have a different spirit and/or are blinded to the other. So, if you are being blinded, then I would expect that you cannot understand what is true. It is interesting to observe you.
KathiQuote If i am interpreting things according to my personal view, how come I have so much unity with other Christian's? there are a billion of Catholic Christians in the world ;
do you believe they are the true church of God and do they teach the truth of Christ and his disciples
because they out number the righteous in truth should then the righteous been declare wrong and evil ???remember that at the time of Christ their only was about 500 people in Israel that ad followed Christ
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 21 2013,21:59) Right and it was never my teaching that the article means that the theos with it meant God Almighty. I do not have a theology based on the article.
Cool.
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 22 2013,04:08) God's wisdom does not contradict his own word.
That is common sense.
Well put.terraricca,
I don't believe that one denomination is the only true denomination. Jesus has His followers and worshipers in several denominations.Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 22 2013,16:40) And then there are verses like this: Romans 9:5 And the Patriarchs; and from them The Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is The God Who is over all, to Whom are praises and blessings to the eternity of eternities, amen.
Romans 9:5 NASB ©
whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.NRSV ©
to them belong the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, comes the Messiah, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen.KJV
Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.From NETNotes:
Or “the Christ, who is over all, God blessed forever,”or “the Messiah. God who is over all be blessed forever!”
or “the Messiah who is over all. God be blessed forever!”
The translational difficulty here is not text-critical in nature, but is a problem of punctuation.
Kathi, this is another one of those “MOSES IS GOD ALMIGHTY” texts that I keep showing you. It is worded in such a way that if someone desparately WANTED Moses (or Jesus in this case) to be God Almighty, they could turn to their favorite translation of this verse, and just ignore the vast majority of scriptures that list Jesus as someone other than and lesser than his God and our God.
I mean, just think it out, Kathi. If this verse was about Moses instead of Jesus, everybody in the world would understand that the “God over all” was the Father. They wouldn't even CONSIDER the alternate translation that suggested Moses, the servant OF God, was the “God over all” who was mentioned, right? This would just be God-given common sense, right?
So why is it that so many of you lose that God-given common sense when it comes to that other servant OF God, Jesus Christ?
Kathi, suffice to say that our God is also Jesus' God. So OBVIOUSLY, the “God over all” would NOT BE the one who has a God of his own. Again, this is just God-given common sense. God, in His wisdom, GAVE this common sense to us. You need to start using it.
Mike,
You lean on what you call 'common sense' continually. What you seem to lack is God's wisdom. There is a difference.1 Cor 2:1And I, when I came to you, brothers,a did not come proclaiming to you the testimonyb of God with lofty speech or wisdom. 2For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 3And I was with you in weakness and in fear and much trembling, 4and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
6Yet among the mature we do impart wisdom, although it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to pass away. 7But we impart a secret and hidden wisdom of God, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. 8None of the rulers of this age understood this, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.Common sense says:
Sons do not pre-exist their conception…Jesus did.
Lions aren't also Lambs…Jesus is.
The First cannot also be the Last…Jesus is the First AND the Last.
The Root cannot also be the Shoot…Jesus is the Root AND the Shoot of Jesse.
God cannot be a servant…Jesus is called both.
God cannot become also a man…Jesus did.
Two cannot be one…The Father and Son are ONE.So, there goes common sense if you want to believe the truth about Christ.
Your argument about Moses is lame. Who's name are all things done throughout the OT? Please answer this.
Who's name are all things done throughout the NT after the resurrection? Please answer this too.Is Moses your answer for either? If not, then don't waste the reader's time with this argument anymore.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2013,17:31) Mike,
You lean on what you call 'common sense' continually. What you seem to lack is God's wisdom. There is a difference.
What you fail to realise Kathi is that a lie often lacks in common sense. Take the Trinity for example. It is really a loony doctrine that when tested leaves this once defense. God is beyond our understanding.Another example is that killing yourself when a comet approaches Earth so you can hitch a ride on the mother spaceship to Planet Heaven is also seriously lacking in common sense.
While common sense cannot determine the deep things of God, it is certainly a great sense for helping to weed out loony doctrines.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2013,12:40) And then there are verses like this: Romans 9:5 And the Patriarchs; and from them The Messiah appeared in the flesh, who is The God Who is over all, to Whom are praises and blessings to the eternity of eternities, amen.
I see. When you don't like a scripture, then quote another one that can be more easily manipulated.That tactic never paints the person who uses it in a good light. The first reaction people have is to wonder why they can't refute the scripture and they instinctively know that there is a good chance that it is a diversionary tactic.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 23 2013,19:36) T8,
Do you believe that Jesus is called the mighty God and that He is over all now?
He is not over the Father. Apart from that, he certainly was made lord by God, so yes, he is over all, and even if he is not, I believe the overall plan is that all things will be made subject to Christ, so that he can redeem it back to God and hand it back to God.
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