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Quote (t8 @ Feb. 14 2013,02:15) Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 14 2013,21:10) Jesus is the only begotten God of God.
My Bible says, he is the son of God.
I will stick with that. Thanks Kathi, but no thanks.
When people say no, then that usually means no, they don't want what you are offering.
Lol. That was a campaign here in NZ a while back.
Obviously we have clearly rejected your teaching and I don't know one person who agrees with you.
So why is no not good enough?
So, when I said “Jesus is the only begotten God of God.t8 says “My Bible says, he is the son of God.”
He thinks that the fact that his Bible says Jesus is the Son of God somehow refutes what I said. This is a bizarre response and typical of what I get from t8. He doesn't address the actual thing that I am saying.
If I said that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. He might then say, but my Bible says that He is the Lamb of God. So what kind of argument is that? And then He and Mike think that they have refuted what I said by that kind of response. Good grief. Where is the logic in this?
Then, going back to what I actually did say, I respond with scripture that calls Jesus the only begotten God and it seems they do not acknowledge that I just showed them scripture to support what t8 erroneously thinks he refuted. Then he and Mike go on and on about how I don't accept scripture when in this situation, they are the ones who do not accept scripture. This is like reading crazy people's arguments. Where do they get this bizarro confusion…the God of this world has blinded the mind of the intellect so they cannot see the glory of the gospel I suppose.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 15 2013,19:38) So, when I said “Jesus is the only begotten God of God. t8 says “My Bible says, he is the son of God.”
God of Gods when taught by the second century fathers was in reference to the nature of the son.They believed he had the nature of his Father, so that Jesus was theos in nature.
“Do you not know that you can partake in divine nature”.
“And our lowly bodies will be transformed into a body like his”.
“First comes the physical then the spiritual”.So yes, when they taught about the nature of the son, they taught that he was theos of Theos. In other words, he had divine nature from the Divine himself.
It does not mean that Jesus is YHWH along with the Father.
God is not 'THEM', HE is a 'HIM'.
If you were honest, you would call God 'THEM' because that is what you teach. But I don't see you put that sort of confidence in your own view. Or perhaps it is part of the deception. Use the same language as the Bible but change the definition when suitable. That way it is harder to detect that you are a false teacher. Because most people would immediately be suspicious if you said what you taught.
I waited patiently for God to help me; then He listened and heard my cry.
I waited patiently for God to help me; then THEY listened and heard my cry.Be strong! Be courageous! Do not be afraid of them! For the Lord your God will be with you. He will neither fail you nor forsake you.
Be strong! Be courageous! Do not be afraid of them! For the Lord your God will be with you. THEY will neither fail you nor forsake you.I have said it before and say it again. If you believe you are right, use the word “THEY” please. Be consistent.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 14 2013,21:07) The thing about that is, you would have been the one put to flight!
Ah, but after the Nicene Creed, the people momentarily came back to their senses, and banished ATHENASIUS for a long time. Arius was back in, and Athenasius was put to flight.Satan didn't stand long for that, though…. and soon things were back to the way the god of this age wants them – people worshipping the creation instead of the Creator.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 14 2013,21:09) Mike, You have already been kicked out of Christian message boards, haven't you? What does that tell you?
It tells me that Trinitarians are AFRAID to have someone in their midst telling the TRUTH of the scriptures. They must immediately banish those people, before the truth becomes accepted by their blind sheep.(It is the same reason the early church didn't want everyday people having their own copies of the scriptures. It's harder to teach the lie when people have access to the truth.
Thank God for the internet – at least for the purpose of letting the whole world discover the truth of the Hebrew and Greek words written in scripture. We are no longer “caged” into what the Trinitarian “fathers” tell us the Bible says. We can now read it for ourselves.)Kathi, this is the reason I'm against t8 relegating certain people to a “Heritics” section, or whatever. I for one am not AFRAID to stand and scripturally defend my doctrine……. unlike those people who banished me from that other site because they WERE afraid. Bring whatever claim you got to this site. And if it's actually taught in the scriptures, I'll be the first to convert. But if not, then be prepared to either scripturally defend your claims, or be chastised for making claims you CAN'T defend.
Mike, I am glad you are committed to refuting them. It solves the problem. But if we cannot keep up with the spam of false doctrine, I will look at implimenting something in that case.
It is not as if I am casting false teachers into prison, because there are plenty of places where they can teach their doctrines including here.
But I am against letting false teachers take over. I don't want to be responsible before God for letting people become deceived because I gave these false teachers the platform for making their own disciples.
So long as there are people that will refute their teachings, then that is good. I know that I personally cannot keep up, but combined with other genuine teachers here, we can refute their every lie. And that is one of the purposes of the forum.
3Jn 1:9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will have nothing to do with us.
3Jn 1:10 So if I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, gossiping maliciously about us. Not satisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.
3Jn 1:11 Dear friend, do not imitate what is evil but what is good. Anyone who does what is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil has not seen God.yeah getting kicked out is not new
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 16 2013,16:57) This title is a good one. “The divider of Christians”
Look at the fruit of Kathi's doctrine.
Woe.
And why am I happy to attend Christian churches and you are not if I am the divider. t8, you are the one that has gone against the churches and call them Babylon. That creates quite a division. When was the last time you attended an organized church regularly?Quote “Do you not know that you can partake in divine nature”. Do you not know that you can partake in chocolate cake? Does that mean you become a chocolate cake?
Since when does 'partake of something' mean you 'become the something' you merely partake of?
That is quite a leap!
Mt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
all over the world internet right in the homes
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 17 2013,18:46) And why am I happy to attend Christian churches and you are not if I am the divider.
Kathi, I decided to not take part in Babylon or to feel free to create my own branded religion from the Bible depending on how I feel.If it is scriptural I listen. If the teaching is not, I reject it.
I am not dividing the Church, I am building my life in and on the Church. Upon the rock that Jesus is the son of God and the Messiah, does my faith sit.
I am not responsible for all the other pagan gods and making Jesus out to be anything contrary to the son of God.
I choose not to participate.
Come out of her my people, that you will not be judged with her.
t8,
The problem is that you do not take ALL that Jesus is said to be, as truth. You have chosen not to believe that Jesus is called the theos in scripture, yet He definitely is called that. So, I don't care to follow your conclusions of scripture since they are not based on all that Jesus is. Churches that claim Jesus is called the theos in scripture are called Babylon by you. That is YOU causing division. Going against scripture and encouraging others to do likewise is one who is causing division.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 17 2013,18:49) Quote “Do you not know that you can partake in divine nature”. Do you not know that you can partake in chocolate cake? Does that mean you become a chocolate cake?
Since when does 'partake of something' mean you 'become the something' you merely partake of?
That is quite a leap!
No leap required. Partake means 'Join in'.If Jesus partook of flesh, that doesn't mean he ate flesh like your chocolate cake example. Obviously it means that he became a man. So if we can partake of divine nature, then that means that we can join or have access to that nature.
The chocolate cake example was not a good one because you do not join a chocolate cake, rather you eat it. Partake in that sense is you are joining the group that are eating that cake. You don't really partake in the cake or participate in the cake. Rather you partake or participate with those who are eating the cake.
So Jesus was a participant in flesh and we can be in divine nature.
Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 17 2013,20:25) The problem is that you do not take ALL that Jesus is said to be, as truth.
Wrong. I do accept all he said. Rather it is you that is not accepting. Jesus said, “Ye are gods”. You do not accept that.I accept it and I accept that others are called theos and elohim. Your acceptance is less because some of these scriptures condemn or contradict your view. There is no scripture out that there contradicts the view that there is one God the Father and that he is the true God and he sent his son.
That is my view and it is safe because that view does not originate in me. I was given it in scripture as a gift. I simply accepted it. You can't condemn it because by doing so, you condemn the one who gave it.
t8,
A big road block to your doctrine that all saints will be called theos is the fact that the Bible does not call all the saints theos. Jesus however is called man and god/God. Saints who are men aren't all called gods in the future. You should stop teaching that partaking of divine nature will make us gods when the Bible doesn't call the saints gods in the future anywhere in scripture.
I do accept that Jesus said 'you are gods' but we differ as to about whom that was said. I believe the divine council of the sons of God were regarding heavenly beings not earthly judges. I showed you Psalms 89 to show you this. The earthly judges were never called elohim.
Quote Wrong. I do accept all he said. Once again, you do not accept that scriptures say that the Son is the god/God. So you do not accept all that is said about who He is.
t8,
Whose name did the believer's in YHVH do all things in throughout the OT when they were being pleasing to YHVH?Whose name did the apostle's and early church believer's do all things in throughout the NT after the resurrection?
Please answer each question.
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