- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2013,19:51) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 23 2013,12:57) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,12:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,01:57) I agree with you William and I am glad that we agree together on the Nicene Creed and both understand the word 'catholic' as meaning universal and not Roman Catholic. I'm not sure, but I think that there are currently maybe four of us active here on HN that agree with the Nicene Creed. Maybe there should be another poll about it. Thanks for answering my question. 
Kathi and all others,If my memory is correct the Nicene creed is not just Trinitarian as I do not believe it takes a stand on whether or not the Spirit is a separate person that is part of Yawheh.
The teaching that Yawheh is multiple persons that is one individual sounds more like a disorder than reasonable discovery/revelation. It is a break in the teaching that Jesus is God and God's Word cannot be broken.
Hi Kerwin,
I think you need to reread the Nicene Creed. It doesn't mention the Holy Spirit as a person nor does it teach that YHVH is one individual.Here it is in the traditional wording:
I believe in one God,
the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible;And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten of his Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God,
begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven,
and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost
of the Virgin Mary,
and was made man;
and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried;
and the third day he rose again
according to the Scriptures,
and ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
and he shall come again, with glory,
to judge both the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Life,
who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son];
who with the Father and the Son together
is worshipped and glorified;
who spake by the Prophets.
And I believe one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church;
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
I'm pretty sure the first Nicene Creed ended with, “And we believe in the Holy Spirit”, and left it at that.Kathi, according to the creed you posted, who alone is the maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible?
Mike,
I bolded your answer in the creed you quoted. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are involved in creation.So “the Holy Ghost” is the one who created all things? Not the Father, and not Jesus? Hmmmmm…………..
The actual answer, as you well know, is in the first paragraph:
I believe in one God,
the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible;How many Gods? And who is that God? And did He make the heaven, the earth, and all things visible and invisible?
Why would you not answer my question honestly, Kathi?
Here's another question for you:
Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus.Kathi, who EXACTLY, is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the patriarchs?
And who is the servant OF that God?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,15:31) So “the Holy Ghost” is the one who created all things? Not the Father, and not Jesus? Hmmmmm………….. The Holy Spirit created all things Mike, God created all things through the Holy Spirit and through his word.
[1] In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
[2] The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
[3] And God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light.And, once the Holy Spirit begins to rule in a persons life also, then the light will shine in bit by bit, and they will know the changes.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 26 2013,21:31) So “the Holy Ghost” is the one who created all things? Not the Father, and not Jesus?
Huh? I list all three names and you think I list only one??Read it more closely, Kathi. The one you bolded “proceedeth from the Father [and the Son]”, and is “with the Father and the Son”.
So you are saying that the Holy Spirit, who proceeds forth from the Father and the Son, is the creator of all things. But that's not what you meant to say, is it?
Anyway, the part I bolded is the correct answer to my question. All things were created by the Father alone, through His holy servant Jesus Christ. This is the part of that creed that is accurate. After that, it turns into mumbo-jumbo.
Would you address the other scripture I asked you about?
Quote (2besee @ Jan. 26 2013,22:31) 1) The Holy Spirit created all things Mike……….. 2) ……God created all things through the Holy Spirit and through his word.
Which one of your statements is the truth, 2B? They say different things.Did God Almighty create all things?
Or did the Holy Spirit of God create all things?
Don't forget the words of Tertullian: He who creates is one, and he through whom the thing was created is another.
(And “NO”, it's not important WHO originally said those words. It only matters whether or not those words are accurate and true. Paul seems to think so, for he points out, more than once in scripture, that God created THROUGH Jesus .)
Consider that God created me THROUGH my parents. That fact does not equate my parents with God, or make them “The Creator”.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 28 2013,19:40) Read it more closely, Kathi. The one you bolded “proceedeth from the Father [and the Son]”, and is “with the Father and the Son”. So you are saying that the Holy Spirit, who proceeds forth from the Father and the Son, is the creator of all things. But that's not what you meant to say, is it?
Anyway, the part I bolded is the correct answer to my question. All things were created by the Father alone, through His holy servant Jesus Christ. This is the part of that creed that is accurate. After that, it turns into mumbo-jumbo.
Would you address the other scripture I asked you about?
I said the Father, Son and Spirit are all present and involved in the creation of all things in heaven and on earth.The God of our Fathers is YHWH who is God of gods and Lord of lords. The God of gods sent the Lord of lords to be both the Son of God and Son of Man to serve His purposes.
Can anyone tell me what it means creating
To me it mean make things that do not exist
Do I have this right If I have it right ,then their could only be one that create be cause after that is done then the handling of those things does not refer to creation right
So ,if God creates things then hand it over to his son ,and he tell his son what to do with it and so the son with his angels do the foot work so to speak,
And wen all creation is done , tell me who his the one that create all thing
Is it no God YesThrough Christ ,means what. .??? That Christ ad a hole in his being and all things wen through the hole
Ridiculous is it ?So it could well mean that it (creation) was done with Christ being the hands on and direct executor of Gods creation ,so to speak,and that the angel were only servants of God under Christ direction,
This is the way I understand creation , according to what the scriptures reveal it.
T,
I believe you are right regarding the meaning of creation…making something that does not exist.Perhaps God the Father made the building blocks of creation and Jesus put them together in different shapes, i.e. beasts, cattle, fish, dry land, stars, sun, man, etc.
Have you ever taken a bunch of Legos out of the new box and it was just a pile of blocks? Then did you make the item pictured on the box? Well, maybe it was that way with the Father and the Son. The Father provided the legos and the picture so to speak and the Son put them together to look like the picture.
Now read this verse and think about the idea of the legos:
1 Cor 8:6yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 27 2013,09:12) Come help me in the “Beginning” thread, t8. Kerwin is currently on a mission to prove that the Holy Spirit of God is the “only begotten Son of God” – because God, for some reason, has TWO “only begotten Sons”.
Alright, see you there.Hi T, just some thoughts.
I guess that Jesus as the Word is what God created all through. Maybe God told Jesus what to say to speak things into existence. After all. Jesus did say that he only says what he hears the Father say.
In programming you can create things and command them to do things. This is achieved by the code which is usually a bunch of words and numbers with special symbols. But this alone does not create anything because in order for it to make any sense, there needs to be an interpreter.
And interpreter is what takes the code and executes it and outputs the commands of the code. Take HTML, it is just code. View it through Notepad and you see the code. View it through a browser and you see a web page. That is because browsers have inbuilt HTML interpreters. So when you embed text, images, and video in HTML, it will display in a browser.
Without being demeaning, but bringing it down to my level, God is like the programmer and Jesus/Word is like the interpreter and creation is the browser.
Again, just some thoughts from a lowly being trying to put things into his own puny experience.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 29 2013,13:27) Hi T, just some thoughts. I guess that Jesus as the Word is what God created all through. Maybe God told Jesus what to say to speak things into existence. After all. Jesus did say that he only says what he hears the Father say.
In programming you can create things and command them to do things. This is achieved by the code which is usually a bunch of words and numbers with special symbols. But this alone does not create anything because in order for it to make any sense, there needs to be an interpreter.
And interpreter is what takes the code and executes it and outputs the commands of the code. Take HTML, it is just code. View it through Notepad and you see the code. View it through a browser and you see a web page. That is because browsers have inbuilt HTML interpreters. So when you embed text, images, and video in HTML, it will display in a browser.
Without being demeaning, but bringing it down to my level, God is like the programmer and Jesus/Word is like the interpreter and creation is the browser.
Again, just some thoughts from a lowly being trying to put things into his own puny experience.
T8Very good,but we both forgot the ” electricity you know the POWER “
I mean God's Holy Spirit,
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 29 2013,18:27) Hi T, just some thoughts. I guess that Jesus as the Word is what God created all through. Maybe God told Jesus what to say to speak things into existence. After all. Jesus did say that he only says what he hears the Father say.
In programming you can create things and command them to do things. This is achieved by the code which is usually a bunch of words and numbers with special symbols. But this alone does not create anything because in order for it to make any sense, there needs to be an interpreter.
And interpreter is what takes the code and executes it and outputs the commands of the code. Take HTML, it is just code. View it through Notepad and you see the code. View it through a browser and you see a web page. That is because browsers have inbuilt HTML interpreters. So when you embed text, images, and video in HTML, it will display in a browser.
Without being demeaning, but bringing it down to my level, God is like the programmer and Jesus/Word is like the interpreter and creation is the browser.
Again, just some thoughts from a lowly being trying to put things into his own puny experience.
T8.Thats a good analysis.
1. God thinks of something.
2. He speaks out. or command with his word.
3.His word makes it happen.
4.It came to being. it is done.The making of the word into flesh.
1. God had a thought.
2. He gives a command with his word.
3. A sperm was created.
4. Place it in mary's womb.
5. His son was born.
6. God is his Father.All humans are born that way; the uniting of the sperm and egg.That makes him as us,his brethren.
Some say differently; they say its the uniting of the Holy spirit and the egg. Well this does not make him like us. This only makes him a hybrid.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 29 2013,12:05) Quote (t8 @ Jan. 29 2013,18:27) God is like the programmer and Jesus/Word is like the interpreter and creation is the browser.
T8.Thats a good analysis.
We are told that God ALONE created all things. I couldn't venture a guess as to what it means that God created those things THROUGH Jesus.I can only parrot the words of scripture on this one.
Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 28 2013,23:00) So it could well mean that it (creation) was done with Christ being the hands on and direct executor of Gods creation ,so to speak,and that the angel were only servants of God under Christ direction…………
Hi Pierre,Like I just said, I really don't know how to understand it. I will point out to you that angels and Jesus are also called gods in scripture. Your analysis seems to say that MANY gods created all things, when we know from scripture that one God created all things.
I do understand your point that Jesus and the angels did the “manufacturing at the plant”, but CHRYSLER ALONE “created” the car.
I simply don't know.
If you don't know Mike, then you should stop acting like you do when you say Jesus did not create one thing.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 28 2013,20:58) I said the Father, Son and Spirit are all present and involved in the creation of all things in heaven and on earth.
No you didn't! You HAVE said that many times, but what you did this time was bold some words of the creed – words that spoke of the Holy Spirit proceeding forth from the Father and the Son.Kathi, do you agree that the creed you posted literally lists “the Father Almighty” as the “maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible”?
It does, you know.
Also, when are you going to address Acts 3:13, and the question I asked about it?
Mike did you see that I bolded that part about the Father too? And the part about the Son? Then mentioned all three?
I addressed Acts 3:13 already.
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 26 2013,17:35) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 25 2013,19:51) Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 23 2013,12:57) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2013,12:32) Quote (Lightenup @ Sep. 26 2012,01:57) I agree with you William and I am glad that we agree together on the Nicene Creed and both understand the word 'catholic' as meaning universal and not Roman Catholic. I'm not sure, but I think that there are currently maybe four of us active here on HN that agree with the Nicene Creed. Maybe there should be another poll about it. Thanks for answering my question.
Kathi and all others,If my memory is correct the Nicene creed is not just Trinitarian as I do not believe it takes a stand on whether or not the Spirit is a separate person that is part of Yawheh.
The teaching that Yawheh is multiple persons that is one individual sounds more like a disorder than reasonable discovery/revelation. It is a break in the teaching that Jesus is God and God's Word cannot be broken.
Hi Kerwin,
I think you need to reread the Nicene Creed. It doesn't mention the Holy Spirit as a person nor does it teach that YHVH is one individual.Here it is in the traditional wording:
I believe in one God,
the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible;And in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten of his Father before all worlds,
God of God, Light of Light,
very God of very God,
begotten, not made,
being of one substance with the Father;
by whom all things were made;
who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven,
and was incarnate by the Holy Ghost
of the Virgin Mary,
and was made man;
and was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered and was buried;
and the third day he rose again
according to the Scriptures,
and ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of the Father;
and he shall come again, with glory,
to judge both the quick and the dead;
whose kingdom shall have no end.And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Life,
who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son];
who with the Father and the Son together
is worshipped and glorified;
who spake by the Prophets.
And I believe one holy Catholic and Apostolic Church;
I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins;
and I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN.
I'm pretty sure the first Nicene Creed ended with, “And we believe in the Holy Spirit”, and left it at that.Kathi, according to the creed you posted, who alone is the maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible?
Mike,
I bolded your answer in the creed you quoted. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are involved in creation.
Evidence, Mike, see what I bolded in the creed. Then see the mention of all three names.Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 29 2013,18:54) Mike did you see that I bolded that part about the Father too? And the part about the Son?
No. But I see it now! Sorry.Which one is EXPLICITELY said to be “maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible”?
Quote (Lightenup @ Jan. 29 2013,18:54) I addressed Acts 3:13 already.
I apparently didn't see that either. Could you tell me which page your answer is on?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
