The divider of Christians

[Proclaimer]

LU, you lame excuse that God is means one essense or unity just opens the floodgates to anyone adding as many persons as they like to that unity.

Of course the floodgates are already open and many have taken to their chosen number.

The LORD thy God is one / Mike, T8, Terr, Others
The LORD thy God is two / Kathi
The LORD thy God is three / KJ, Is
The LORD thy God is four / Edj

I guess on the outset Kathi, you have a three in four chance of teaching others to break the commandments.

Of course once we drill down and look at the scripture, you have a 100% of teaching others to break the commandments.

The LORD thy God is two / The LORD thy God is Biune / The LORD thy God is THEY / The LORD thy God is a unity of two
This is what you are teaching people.

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2012,03:13)

Pierre, Is there a 'witch heaven?'

kathi

wich one,two ,three,four ,five ……………???

[terraricca]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 05 2012,05:12)

Pierre, Do you know what a witch is? Definition of WITCH 1 : one that is credited with usually malignant supernatural powers; especially : a woman practicing usually black witchcraft often with the aid of a devil or familiar : sorceress — compare warlock 2 : an ugly old woman : hag 3 : a charming or alluring girl or woman 4 : a practitioner of Wicca 5 : witch of agnesi http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/witch Now, really I know you are not talking about a heaven where witches live. I was just kidding with you. YHWH the Son is the ruler with the Father over all heavens and earth, to answer your question.

K

ok I miss spell it ,but did you understood

what heaven his that

can Christ be in the heaven were his father has his place

if you say yes ;then how could a creation be in the place of the one that created him

[Lightenup]

Pierre,
I already answered you. He is not a creation, He is the one, together with the Father, that created creation.

[Lightenup]

t8,
Believe what you want.
For me there is the YHWH Echad, the eternal unity…one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.

[Lightenup]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2012,18:12)

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2012,16:16) In a husband/wife relationship the husband is the head of the wife but yet they are one and yet they are equal. Do you disagree with this statement? Kathi, ALL beings are equal in some ways.  This is not a good analogy to support your point. Humans and God are equal in that we both think thoughts.   Humans and Jesus are equal in that they've walked the earth as human beings.   Humans and angels are equal in that they are both lower than God. Humans and birds are equal in that they both have two eyes.   Humans and cockroaches are equal in that they both breathe air. Are you getting my point?   So yes, Jesus and the God who created him are equal in that they both rule over others.  And in that they both are spirit beings.  And in many other ways as well.  But that doesn't mean they are EQUAL – equal, any more than us walking the earth makes us EQUAL – equal to Jesus. Are you saying that you don't agree with Paul, who said that men are the head of women, Jesus is the head of men, and God is the head of Jesus? Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 04 2012,16:16) Btw, be my guest and walk away from our discussions if you wish. I know I came at you pretty hard in that last post, Kathi.  But in my defense, it IS frustrating at times when you're dealing with people who just claim things because they WANT those things to be true – without any regard for whether the things they claim make any sense, or whether they're scriptural. 1.  Kathi, WHO EXACTLY is the Almighty God of Jesus? 2.  Is it possible for two or more beings to share the same or similar titles WITHOUT it meaning that they are a compound unity?  YES or NO?

Mike,

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I know I came at you pretty hard in that last post, Kathi. But in my defense, it IS frustrating at times when you're dealing with people who just claim things because they WANT those things to be true – without any regard for whether the things they claim make any sense, or whether they're scriptural.

Like I said, just walk away if you want.

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1. Kathi, WHO EXACTLY is the Almighty God of Jesus? 2. Is it possible for two or more beings to share the same or similar titles WITHOUT it meaning that they are a compound unity? YES or NO?

1. YHWH the Father naturally.
2. No, not the titles 'First and Last.'

Quote

Are you saying that you don't agree with Paul, who said that men are the head of women, Jesus is the head of men, and God is the head of Jesus?

I don't disagree with Paul but I think that the men that are head of the women are their husbands, not just all men in general, for instance, my grown sons are not in authority over me. I also have pointed out to you that one having authority over another does not mean they are unequal in type.

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So yes, Jesus and the God who created him are equal in that they both rule over others. And in that they both are spirit beings. And in many other ways as well.

Jesus wasn't created, He was begotten. He, as the second power of YHWH, is the exact reproduction of the first power of YHWH, the Father.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 07 2012,20:00)

t8, Believe what you want. For me there is the YHWH Echad, the eternal unity…one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.

But if you are honest, it is also correct according to what you say that “The LORD thy God is two”.

This is after all what you are teaching and it is a true sentence regarding what you teach.

[Proclaimer]

And for US LU, we believe that the LORD thy God is one. The Father.

No matter how you cut it, this is how we view this and “The LORD thy God is two” works for your view, just as “The LORD thy God is three” works for KJ & Is.

Shall we stop the pretend game and just admit that is correct. You can legitimately say that the LORD thy God is two because you believe that there are 2 persons.

If you say this is not correct, then you are saying you are not correct. That is the funniest part about it.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 06 2012,18:33)

Two powers of YHWH does not break the commandment. This was a common understanding amongst the Jews of the first century according to the canonical literature as well as the non-canonical literature. If there is one power with another that is the exact representation of the first, then we have two powers that are equal. This is not hard.

Don't play word games, Kathi. Do you, or do you not believe in and worship two individual Almighty Gods?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 07 2012,00:13)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 06 2012,18:12) 1.  Kathi, WHO EXACTLY is the Almighty God of Jesus? 2.  Is it possible for two or more beings to share the same or similar titles WITHOUT it meaning that they are a compound unity?  YES or NO? 1. YHWH the Father naturally. 2. No, not the titles 'First and Last.'

1.  That is the correct answer, Kathi.  YHWH the Father is the God of Jesus, and therefore the God of us.  Jesus himself said that his God was also our God.  That should be the end of all the “Jesus is our Almighty God” theories.

2.  Does this answer mean that you now accept the fact that Jehovah and Jesus both being a Lord over other lords doesn't include them in some “compound unity Godhead thing”?

I will discuss the “first and last” thing with you, but I'm just making sure we are on the same page on all the other titles.

[Lightenup]

Jesus is the Almighty God as the Son, not as the Father. I have been saying that all along, and yes I believe they are one. The Jews understood a Godhead even in the first century. They just didn't realize that Jesus was the second power of YHWH. The understanding of a Godhead did not challenge monotheism.

I worship one Almighty YHWH Echad, an eternal unity, Mike.

[Proclaimer]

And you worship the Father as God and you worship the son as God.

The LORD thy God is two according to you. This is a true statement of your faith and yet you cannot even say it publicly. Are you ashamed of your own doctrine?

Kathi believes that the LORD thy God is two, but is too ashamed to say it outright. Instead she disguises it so that it fits in biblical language so as to not be exposed. But at the end of the day, she believes that the LORD thy God is two and teaches others to break the commandments as she does.

[Lightenup]

t8,
A unity is usually more than one, duh.

If you do not have theos the Son, you do not have theos the Father, t8. I have declared what I believe openly in my signature. In the context of the shema, I believe in the YHWH Echad, the eternal unity. I believe in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ together with their Spirit. All are worshiped by most Christians that I know and the apostles.

[Lightenup]

Stop acting like a bully, t8. This is not second grade.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 09 2012,17:30)

t8, A unity is usually more than one, duh.

So you agree that to you, the LORD thy God is two.

So why not say it because then you would be clear.

I think you are afraid to say it that way even though it is what you teach.

And why are you afraid to say it?

I think you know the answer.

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 09 2012,17:32)

Stop acting like a bully, t8. This is not second grade.

I could say you are bullying us with your doctrine. You know we reject it as false, and yet you keep ramming it down eveyone's necks when you get the chance. And who is encouraging you to do this? No one. Not one member on Heaven Net is asking for more of this. But I am not calling you a bully even though I could, given your definition of that word.

But here is what I think. If the truth is bullying you, then that is not my problem.

My concern is to say the truth. How that truth is perceived or received is out of my jurisdiction. Jesus was the same. He spoke the truth and many disliked him. So what? He spoke the truth anyway. Sure he died for that. But I am willing to as well.

[Lightenup]

t8,

The truth never bullies me, you do. If you don't want me to tell you what I believe stop asking me what I believe. You are the one asking the questions. I am just answering you. If you feel bullied because I simply answer you, then stop asking. Simple.

[Lightenup]

Quote

the LORD thy God is two

The LORD is two powers, the Father and the Son.

How many who were ever called 'the theos' in the entire Bible were involved in creation, t8?

[Proclaimer]

So the LORD is two (The Father and Son) is what you teach.

The LORD is one, the Father is what we teach.

For us, there is one God the Father is what Paul taught.
We are with Paul in this truth, you are not.

We are also with Jesus Christ the truth, who testified that the Father is the true God.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

So we are with Jesus in this truth and you are not.

And this is eternal life of which we receive. What iof your doctrine then?

[Lightenup]

How many persons that have ever been called 'the theos' do we need to know, believe in and serve in order to have eternal life, t8?

[Author]

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