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this is my two cents
1CO 3:12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
EPH 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
EPH 2:20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,t8,
I do not know what has to be taught before a student-adherent is immersed in water in the name of Jesus. I do know it is important to teach the true Jesus and the true God. (2 Corinthians 11:4)
I also see where anyone in the book of Acts evangelized by teaching their hearers that are saved by grace though Peter did speak of believers of being saved by grace (Acts 15:11) so it may be that it is implied by the message given to those that first hear the gospel.
I am not sure they have to hear the promise of righteousness from God for those that hunger and thirst for righteousness.
What you say is true, but has no bearing on Ray Comfort.
Are evangelists not allowed to preach say the existence of God to an Atheist, the law to someone without the law, etc before delivering the gospel?
If not, I would like to know why. If it is okay, then our conversation about Ray Comfort highlighting the 10 commandments before delivery of the gospel is over.
t8,
If he teaches Jesus is God then he is teaching another Jesus than was taught by Paul or any other of the apostles. My lack of knowledge means than beyond that I can say nothing with confidence.
So it all boils down to Ray Comforts gospel is actually heresy since he thinks Jesus is God,regardless of what else he may say? T8 you agree with that don’t you? If a person worships Jesus as God then surely they must be damned? or does God have a little sympathy in all this?
AndrewAD,
God judges who is damned and who is saved. It is for us to stand in awe of his mercy and justice.
Comfort is a heretic as he teaches a doctrine that is false.
Comfort is a heretic as he teaches a doctrine that is false.
Do you mean the Trinity Doctrine?
If he teaches Jesus is God then he is teaching another Jesus than was taught by Paul or any other of the apostles.
Could it be that he is teaching the right Jesus, but is confused or deceived on this one point. After all, the Jesus he preaches is still the son of God, the messiah, died for humanity, rose from the dead, and is seated at the right-hand of the majesty on high. I think you will find this with most Evangelists and Christian teachers. They curiously have accepted the Trinity Doctrine without question. Such is the powerful deception of this Catholic doctrine. Even Luther didn’t question it from what I can tell.
So it all boils down to Ray Comforts gospel is actually heresy since he thinks Jesus is God,regardless of what else he may say? T8 you agree with that don’t you? If a person worships Jesus as God then surely they must be damned? or does God have a little sympathy in all this?
All I can tell you is that I once believed in that doctrine and God was still with me. In fact I was even given the greatest revelation/vision of my life in that period of my life. But God impressed on me to challenge this doctrine too and I obeyed. It took years to work it through though.
Perhaps God in his mercy considers the situation at hand and works through people despite that doctrine’s influence. But expects in time if we seek that we will investigate all things to see if they are so. But then many are lazy, however, I wouldn’t say that they go to Hell because of this.
There are many things the Church needs to improve on and the messiah comes for a bride without spot and blemish. If he hasn’t returned yet, then perhaps the Church is in the stage of ridding herself from these blemishes? In which case we cannot pronounce judgements of hell for such blemishes.
t8,
In his case it is the Trinity.
Going by Paul’s words to Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11:4) they were tolerating those that preached another Jesus and another gospel. Comfort may be doing it because he is confused or deceived but it is still another Jesus he teaches.
Satan uses people in that way which is why it is wise for each of us to watch our doctrine and our life.
T8,
God uses Satan to do what is right so he certainly uses those that Satan runs a fraudulent scheme on.
Personally I wouldn’t say that Satan is behind his ministry. However, it is one thing to believe in the Trinity and quite another to preach it or make it part of the gospel. I agree that he is completely wrong in this part of his message. As for being of Satan, I wouldn’t make that judgement myself, I don’t think that is a wise thing to do. The truth is, it is people like him who bring people into the Kingdom. Do you bring people into the kingdom with the preaching of the gospel? He has dedicated his life to doing that, whereas my guess is you haven’t. I do not pass such judgement on the man, even though I know he is wrong when it comes to the Trinity.I would like to see him change in that aspect for the sake of the truth.
just a few questions; Jn 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.
Jn 17:17 Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth.Jn 17:6 “I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.
have those scriptures above any value ?
Lk 21:8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.
Mk 13:5 Jesus said to them: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
Mk 13:6 Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many.Mt 24:4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
Mt 24:5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life.
1Jn 1:2 The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.
1Jn 1:3 We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.
1Jn 1:4 We write this to make our joy complete.what was it that we could be deceive of ? truth ? lies? mis representations ? or …..?
t8,
Personally I wouldn’t say that Satan is behind his ministry.
Scripture is harsh on those that either add or subtract from the gospel; for example, it is written ” But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8)
In Galatians 5:19-21 in the AV of the KJV we are told one of the works of the flesh are heresies. In addition when Even deceived Adam she was herself first deceived by Satan and so became the first false preacher.
t8,
Since in general I do not think heresy is blaspheme against the Holy Spirit I take the words Galatians 1:8 as a warning as well as a emphatic argument voicing how Paul felt about protecting those God placed under him.
Nick, I bet you believe in at least one error as Ray Comfort obviously does.
And I am honest enough to admit that I once believed in the same error (as you probably did also) and yet I know through personal testimony, that God was with me despite my imperfect beliefs and he called me out of that particular error.
Patience is a virtue. I am sure we all need to change in some way.
But Ray has something you may not have Nick.
He invites people to God through his message. For that reason, I am not going to judge him as a deceiver as you might do.
It is better to turn men toward God than away. I am sure you agree with that statement.
Sometimes when we teach people about God or preach about him, we may say things that are not actually true by reason of not being perfect ourselves.
That said, I believe that Ray Comfort should remove that message from the gospel he preaches. What is wrong with preaching Jesus who is the son of God and the messiah. What believer in scripture could argue against that?
Scripture is harsh on those that either add or subtract from the gospel; for example, it is written ” But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8)
I agree that people should not preach a different Jesus. There is no point in that.
Notice the emphasis on Jesus as God. It is a different gospel to the one preached in scripture for sure. Everything else seems right, accept for that one point.
Seems a shame to go to all that effort to bring people into the kingdom, but to stumble over that.
I wonder how many he and his ministry have preached their gospel to and have gone on to follow Jesus Christ as true disciples.
Nick your comments do not hit the nail on the head IMO. I was the one that pointed out that he includes Jesus as God in his gospel. So I am not defending that.
What I am not doing is getting on the ‘let’s call this man a deceiver’ bus.
I believe that we can be genuine Believers and still have error in our doctrine and even our gospel. But I also believe that someone who loves God and his son will also love truth and not hate it when he hears it. I would like to present my case to Ray Comfort as to why Jesus is not God, rather than just condemn the man and ignore him through lack of love and concern.
Evangelists are important and they get many of their ideas from teachers and there are many teachers who are guilty of installing false doctrine into the Church. I don’t want to condemn the man as I feel you are doing. Especially considering that he has a heart for the lost and spend his time snatching people from the flames. Whereas you and I do not have that same passion, let’s face it. I do not want to speak harshly of Ray Comfort and despite his blatant error which concerns me, I think a lot of other things he preaches are good and true.
Blessed are those who lead men to Christ and to his God. We should not be the kind of people that turn people away from the truth because of arrogance and pride. If we love one another then we will do something about it. Considering your view of him, what are you going to do about it? Leave him to perish according to what you believe?
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