The Body Of Jesus.

[toby]

Hi all.
This is an open offer to answer the questions below in an honest and Christian manner.  No debate is asked to be entered into –  just your answers and opinions.  
Thanks.

---

Jesus was a spirit in Heaven before coming to Earth.
Jesus had a body prepared for him when he came as man.

Question:
If he had a body that was 'spiritual' – as has been said in this forum – why did he have to have another body prepared for him?

The premise is this, as their point would suggest:

1) Jesus in Heaven was in a spiritual body.

Q1a) What was IN the spiritual body?
Q1b) What was the spiritual body made of?

——————–

2) A body was prepared for him in the womb of Mary.

Q2) Why was a body prepared for him – he already had one? (Easy answer)

——————–

3) Jesus came to Earth and was born into a flesh and blood body.

Q3) What happened to his 'spiritual body' when he came in his flesh and bone body?

——————–

4) God is also a spirit being.

Q4) Does God have a body?

——————–

5) Scriptures says that the 'body of Jesus is the Church'.

Q5) If the 'body' of Jesus is the Church – and the Church did not formerly exist…until Jesus was raised up in his glorious flesh and bone body, his spiritual body, what body did Jesus have before?

——————–

6) Jesus was raised in a spiritual body which we know was flesh and bone.

Q6a) How did Jesus prove that his spiritual body was real flesh and bone (His blood was drained from the wound in his side – and as a sacrifice as per the well known prophecy).

Q6b) What events occurred surrounding the, now, spiritual body of Jesus that had not been recorded before in his previous natural body?

——————–

7) Jesus is in Heaven now as a spirit being.

Q7) What happened to the flesh and bone body of Jesus between rising into the cloud and entering Heaven?

——————–

8) Jesus was in Heaven as a spirit being;
  Was given a mortal body when on earth to make him a human being;
   Jesus was killed and his mortal body made dead by the release of his spirit;
   His mortal body was made immortal and his spirit put back in it making it alive again;
   Jesus is now back in Heaven as a spirit being.

Q8a) if Jesus had a body as a spirit – what happened to it when he entered the flesh on earth?

Q8b) What BODY was his spirit (Not aspects of his spirit) in when his body was in the grave?

Q8c) if Jesus came into the flesh in his spiritual body (a) –  and was in his spiritual body while dead (b) then how is it said that the body was raised up 'a spiritual body'?

[terraricca]

all those questions and answers are in the” preexistence” of Christ 1 and 2

if you still not satisfied come back here with the un answered questions ,and we can look in to it

Pierre

[Wakeup]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 04 2012,15:59)

Hi all. This is an open offer to answer the questions below in an honest and Christian manner.  No debate is asked to be entered into –  just your answers and opinions.   Thanks. Jesus was a spirit in Heaven before coming to Earth. Jesus had a body prepared for him when he came as man. Question: If he had a body that was 'spiritual' – as has been said in this forum – why did he have to have another body prepared for him? The premise is this, as their point would suggest: 1) Jesus in Heaven was in a spiritual body. Q1a) What was IN the spiritual body? Q1b) What was the spiritual body made of? ——————– 2) A body was prepared for him in the womb of Mary. Q2) Why was a body prepared for him – he already had one? (Easy answer) ——————– 3) Jesus came to Earth and was born into a flesh and blood body. Q3) What happened to his 'spiritual body' when he came in his flesh and bone body? ——————– 4) God is also a spirit being. Q4) Does God have a body? ——————– 5) Scriptures says that the 'body of Jesus is the Church'. Q5) If the 'body' of Jesus is the Church – and the Church did not formerly exist…until Jesus was raised up in his glorious flesh and bone body, his spiritual body, what body did Jesus have before? ——————– 6) Jesus was raised in a spiritual body which we know was flesh and bone. Q6a) How did Jesus prove that his spiritual body was real flesh and bone (His blood was drained from the wound in his side – and as a sacrifice as per the well known prophecy). Q6b) What events occurred surrounding the, now, spiritual body of Jesus that had not been recorded before in his previous natural body? ——————– 7) Jesus is in Heaven now as a spirit being. Q7) What happened to the flesh and bone body of Jesus between rising into the cloud and entering Heaven? ——————– 8) Jesus was in Heaven as a spirit being;   Was given a mortal body when on earth to make him a human being;    Jesus was killed and his mortal body made dead by the release of his spirit;    His mortal body was made immortal and his spirit put back in it making it alive again;    Jesus is now back in Heaven as a spirit being. Q8a) if Jesus had a body as a spirit – what happened to it when he entered the flesh on earth? Q8b) What BODY was his spirit (Not aspects of his spirit) in when his body was in the grave? Q8c) if Jesus came into the flesh in his spiritual body (a) –  and was in his spiritual body while dead (b) then how is it said that the body was raised up 'a spiritual body'?

Hi Toby.

I can see what you mean;

God is spirit; you agree? Therefore his word is spirit.
God has his word;do you have your word?yes you do.
for the questions you ask, is not someone else but yours.Now your word can effect other people,yes or no.make them feel good or angry,it has power.yes or no?

Let say you are God in heaven; and you decided to bring your word down to earth,but he must be seen by the human eyes.
So you made him flesh;and you speaks through him,he obeys you,even to death.You are very happy with him; because he as a human has a choice,he could say no,as a person.but he obyed to death.

Now you made that human which is your own word into spirit, and that person (spiritis person) now sitting next to you.

Toby; can you only speak one word.or many words can come out of your mouth?many words right.

This person is sitting next to you, and you are also speaking to him and he speaks to you.Because he is a person with an identity;with a choice,and free will.but his will is to do your will only.

Is your word you or some body else? Can it be someone else? no.surely not.

You have given this person all authority and power and in charge, and his name is now the word of Toby.
He is powerfull, but your power.Remember he was your word, that you have turned into flesh.

There is only one God and he has his word,and now is sitting next to his father,because when he was born by the will of God,that makes him Gods son.

Dont forget God can still speak without him,but God chose to speak through him.

The son of man has been given a new body. not flesh anymore. God still speaks to him.

This man Jesus that was wounded is now spirit.But you say but the word was always spirit,so what is the difference; the difference is that he was a person before,and now as a person but in a spirit body.

The word of God sitting next to God.

Its like you are sitting next to your word.But you can still speak to him. Because your words are many not just one.

If you can make a clone of your word,using another person,and make him sit next to you. He does your will.

God can make his word look like anything;sample; the tree of life in the garden. that was Gods word.

wakeup.

[terraricca]

hi

the word of men is good for nothing it is better you silence and listen to wisdom,
words have no power unless you can back up what you say ,if not you are a foolish person,

many people talk ,talk,talk,but no one listen why ?? because the people that talks as nothing to prove that he can backup his words,

do you start to understand ? may be;ok

God his spirit but we do not know what is the fabric of that spirit but do not get confused ,God has a form to cover his spirit being,he has a soul,he can ear,talk, yes he can talk it say so but if there is no one to listen why would he talk????answer this if you can ,why would you talk if there is no one around
why did God start to create ?? is it not in LOVE to do good ?? good to whom it says to his SON the Christ but if you do not believe in the preexistence of Christ then God must have created in anticipation of a SON right then Paul lied to US all because he says that Christ is the first of all creation ,John says the same thing ,

but scriptures say that THE WORD  was created first and all other creation through him,so look it this way ,the SON (WORD OF GOD) was receiving instructions from the father to do all what he says ,

NOW THIS IS POWER,WHAT EVER THE FATHER SAYS GOES AND ONLY COME BACK TO HIM WEN IT IS DONE, WHO CAN SAY BETTER ??SATAN WEN AGAINST THOSE WORDS 0R WILL OF GOD,WITH THE CONSEQUENCES WE KNOW
BUT GOD MADE AND PREDICT THE TOTAL FIXATION OF SATAN DISTURBANCE IN THE UNIVERSE OF ANGELS AND MEN ,SO IT WAS NOW A WAR BETWEEN SATAN AND GOD ,SATAN WITH HIS LIES AND DECEIT AND GOD WITH HIS TRUTH AND TRUE WORDS ,THIS IF YOU READ THE BIBLE YOU SHOULD UNDERSTAND THIS IS THE LIGHT THAT CHRIST IS TEACHING ,THIS IS WHY YOU EITHER BELIEVE SATAN OR GOD WORDS ,

Pierre

[journey42]

Quote (toby @ Feb. 04 2012,15:59)

Hi all. This is an open offer to answer the questions below in an honest and Christian manner.  No debate is asked to be entered into –  just your answers and opinions.   Thanks. Jesus was a spirit in Heaven before coming to Earth. Jesus had a body prepared for him when he came as man. Question: If he had a body that was 'spiritual' – as has been said in this forum – why did he have to have another body prepared for him? The premise is this, as their point would suggest: 1) Jesus in Heaven was in a spiritual body. Q1a) What was IN the spiritual body? Q1b) What was the spiritual body made of? ——————– 2) A body was prepared for him in the womb of Mary. Q2) Why was a body prepared for him – he already had one? (Easy answer) ——————– 3) Jesus came to Earth and was born into a flesh and blood body. Q3) What happened to his 'spiritual body' when he came in his flesh and bone body? ——————– 4) God is also a spirit being. Q4) Does God have a body? ——————– 5) Scriptures says that the 'body of Jesus is the Church'. Q5) If the 'body' of Jesus is the Church – and the Church did not formerly exist…until Jesus was raised up in his glorious flesh and bone body, his spiritual body, what body did Jesus have before? ——————– 6) Jesus was raised in a spiritual body which we know was flesh and bone. Q6a) How did Jesus prove that his spiritual body was real flesh and bone (His blood was drained from the wound in his side – and as a sacrifice as per the well known prophecy). Q6b) What events occurred surrounding the, now, spiritual body of Jesus that had not been recorded before in his previous natural body? ——————– 7) Jesus is in Heaven now as a spirit being. Q7) What happened to the flesh and bone body of Jesus between rising into the cloud and entering Heaven? ——————– 8) Jesus was in Heaven as a spirit being;   Was given a mortal body when on earth to make him a human being;    Jesus was killed and his mortal body made dead by the release of his spirit;    His mortal body was made immortal and his spirit put back in it making it alive again;    Jesus is now back in Heaven as a spirit being. Q8a) if Jesus had a body as a spirit – what happened to it when he entered the flesh on earth? Q8b) What BODY was his spirit (Not aspects of his spirit) in when his body was in the grave? Q8c) if Jesus came into the flesh in his spiritual body (a) –  and was in his spiritual body while dead (b) then how is it said that the body was raised up 'a spiritual body'?

Hi Toby

Most say that Jesus had a spirit body before he was born, but the scriptures don't say that.

Before anyone can make any sense of it, you have to understand what the Word is.  

The Word, was spirit in heaven, in the beginning
That's all it was, the Word,
God's Word.
and the Word was with God
this is no ordinary Word
for this Word has power
this Word obeys God
this Word is everything that comes out from Gods mouth
and it is always with God
it never leaves his side,
but God can send his Word anywhere
or transform his Word into anything,
would this Word have a body then?
No.  It is a force,
as everything that comes out of the mouth of God is truth
and truth doesn't have a body, it is a spiritual force
it's alive

John 6:63 …….the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

In the past, God transformed his Word into the tree of life
he transformed it into Michelziedek and also into a rock

But all that was only a stepping stone
to serve a purpose
for these transformations disappeared as quick as they came
But God has a long term purpose
and that was to turn his Word into flesh
and dwell with man

The man Jesus, never existed,
before he was created
but the Word always did
so God prepared himself a body
to put his Word inside

Colossians 1:15   Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

these are Gods words, not mine

God calls his son a creature
because he was created in his mothers womb
he was made

Hebrews 1:4   Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

and born flesh and blood just like us
but christians will say,
this is blasphemous, how can you say such a thing?
Our Lord a creature? he wasn't made?
He was with God in the beginning?

The Word was with God in the beginning
The Word was not made
But Christ,
…..Yes his flesh is created
He didn't just appear like Adam and Eve
although immaculately conceived,
this baby formed and grew in the womb
just like us,
he was made
And God put his Word inside his son,
and as this child grew, so did the Word inside him

Luke 1:80   And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his shewing unto Israel.

Luke 2:40   And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon him

Luke 2:52   And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man.

and because he obeyed his father fully,
he joined with the Word, and became that Word
at his resurrection

So this is why Jesus is so special
because he accomplished what he did in the flesh

and because God's Word was the one that changed us
in the first place
that same Word
who is now transformed into that man we now know
Our Lord Jesus Christ, and identity we can connect with
and because what he did was so loyal,
honourable, and deserving
has been given the highest name, title and position
ever to be given to anyone
The Word of God, King of Kings, Lord of Lords

This same Word who we can connect with now
who shows us the Father
will be waiting for us at the other end
and that Word is now Spirit
and has his very own spirit body
& his own identity

John 3:6   That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Now Christ is Spirit. Not a man made out of flesh and blood.
he has been reborn
and you can only do this when you die,
and are resurrected
Jesus was the firstborn of all creation
our example
we will be raised incorruptible just like him
we will follow the same process
an example of whats to come
for the children of God who seek the kingdom

John 6:63   It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Romans 8:11   But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Jesus now has a Spirit body
and the spirit body would be magnificent
too great for us to even understand
perfect, undefiled, incorruptible, fast,
bright, and able to command anything

I haven't answered all your questions, as I hope this explains.

God bless you brother

[terraricca]

All

Yes scriptures say that Christ per existed his coming on earth has a man,

But many have no understanding of scriptures only opinions pe conceive ones strongly inbeded in their mind and heart so that they have become blind to the truth of God,

Refusing the way scriptures are written and so change them ,refusing the words of Christ himself and his disciples and that many will be saved by there written words

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2012,19:32)

All Yes scriptures say that Christ per existed his coming on earth has a man, But many have no understanding of scriptures  only opinions pe conceive ones strongly inbeded in their mind and heart so that they have become blind to the truth of God, Refusing the way scriptures are written and so change them ,refusing the words of Christ himself and his disciples and that many will be saved by there written words

Why don't you address me Pierre?

I have a name?
If you feel so strong about your statement, then give proof.

It says
In the beginning was the Word
and the Word was WITH God
and the WORD was God

Who was with God in the beginning?
THE WORD

and the Word was MADE flesh
When was God's WORD made flesh?
T H I N K   A B O U T   I T

Everything that comes out of the mouth of God is
HIS WORD – TRUTH

If you want to run with what the christian world believe, go for it.  For I tell you now, there are not many that understand the scriptures they quote.

Truth makes sense
Confusion doesn't
truth is logical
confusion is false doctrine
and false doctrine
is lies

I'm weary of your snarly remarks
produce your case please
give scripture
and some logic too please
insults and accusations will get you no-where
I thought you were genuine?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 05 2012,03:44)

Why don't you address me Pierre? I have a name? If you feel so strong about your statement, then give proof. It says In the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the WORD was God

Hi Journey,

Perhaps you will join me and your friend Wakeup in the thread I started for him. Look for a thread called “For Wakeup”.

There is one simple question there I've been hoping he will answer, so I can move on to explaining John 1:1 to him.

I've done much research into it, and I think you'll find what I have learned interesting.

[Pastry]

journey42

You said,

“””Most say that Jesus had a spirit body before he was born, but the scriptures don't say that.”””

I say,

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Why is God invisible? he is spirit.

What is the image Jesus was created in? spirit.

Did Jesus come to earth as a spirit? NO!

Hbr 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels (spirit); but he took on him the seed of Abraham (flesh).

Georg

[mikeboll64]

Georg,

If you add Phil 2:6 into your post, where it is clear that Jesus was existing in the (spirit) form of God before he emptied himself and was made into the likeness of a human being, you will have a hat trick.

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 06 2012,03:44)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2012,19:32) All Yes scriptures say that Christ per existed his coming on earth has a man, But many have no understanding of scriptures  only opinions pe conceive ones strongly inbeded in their mind and heart so that they have become blind to the truth of God, Refusing the way scriptures are written and so change them ,refusing the words of Christ himself and his disciples and that many will be saved by there written words Why don't you address me Pierre? I have a name? If you feel so strong about your statement, then give proof. It says In the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the WORD was God Who was with God in the beginning? THE WORD and the Word was MADE flesh When was God's WORD made flesh? T H I N K   A B O U T   I T Everything that comes out of the mouth of God is HIS WORD – TRUTH If you want to run with what the christian world believe, go for it.  For I tell you now, there are not many that understand the scriptures they quote. Truth makes sense Confusion doesn't truth is logical confusion is false doctrine and false doctrine is lies I'm weary of your snarly remarks produce your case please give scripture and some logic too please insults and accusations will get you no-where I thought you were genuine?

J42

I agree but the rule will be for every scripture presented an explanation is required with another scripture ,
not with opinions,

and if one scripture does not line up with any presentation we have to bring another scripture to support the first scripture or a third one and so on,

if you accept this condition i am yours and even Mike ,t8,and Georg,

so let go to what MIKE as made ” thread called “For Wakeup”.

so see you there,

Pierre

[toby]

Thank you all for your responses – there were some really powerfull posts.  Again thankyou.  Just remember though please, the only requirement is to answer the questions as you see fit.  No debate is asked to be entered into.  Thanks.

As a friendly reminder:

Quote

Hi all. This is an open offer to answer the questions below in an honest and Christian manner.  No debate is asked to be entered into –  just your answers and opinions.   Thanks. Jesus was a spirit in Heaven before coming to Earth. Jesus had a body prepared for him when he came as man. Question: If he had a body that was 'spiritual' – as has been said in this forum – why did he have to have another body prepared for him? The premise is this, as their point would suggest: 1) Jesus in Heaven was in a spiritual body. Q1a) What was IN the spiritual body? Q1b) What was the spiritual body made of? ——————– 2) A body was prepared for him in the womb of Mary. Q2) Why was a body prepared for him – he already had one? (Easy answer) ——————– 3) Jesus came to Earth and was born into a flesh and blood body. Q3) What happened to his 'spiritual body' when he came in his flesh and bone body? ——————– 4) God is also a spirit being. Q4) Does God have a body? ——————– 5) Scriptures says that the 'body of Jesus is the Church'. Q5) If the 'body' of Jesus is the Church – and the Church did not formerly exist…until Jesus was raised up in his glorious flesh and bone body, his spiritual body, what body did Jesus have before? ——————– 6) Jesus was raised in a spiritual body which we know was flesh and bone. Q6a) How did Jesus prove that his spiritual body was real flesh and bone (His blood was drained from the wound in his side – and as a sacrifice as per the well known prophecy). Q6b) What events occurred surrounding the, now, spiritual body of Jesus that had not been recorded before in his previous natural body? ——————– 7) Jesus is in Heaven now as a spirit being. Q7) What happened to the flesh and bone body of Jesus between rising into the cloud and entering Heaven? ——————– 8) Jesus was in Heaven as a spirit being;   Was given a mortal body when on earth to make him a human being;    Jesus was killed and his mortal body made dead by the release of his spirit;    His mortal body was made immortal and his spirit put back in it making it alive again;    Jesus is now back in Heaven as a spirit being. Q8a) if Jesus had a body as a spirit – what happened to it when he entered the flesh on earth? Q8b) What BODY was his spirit (Not aspects of his spirit) in when his body was in the grave? Q8c) if Jesus came into the flesh in his spiritual body (a) –  and was in his spiritual body while dead (b) then how is it said that the body was raised up 'a spiritual body'?

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 06 2012,03:53)

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 06 2012,03:44) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 05 2012,19:32) All Yes scriptures say that Christ per existed his coming on earth has a man, But many have no understanding of scriptures  only opinions pe conceive ones strongly inbeded in their mind and heart so that they have become blind to the truth of God, Refusing the way scriptures are written and so change them ,refusing the words of Christ himself and his disciples and that many will be saved by there written words Why don't you address me Pierre? I have a name? If you feel so strong about your statement, then give proof. It says In the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God and the WORD was God Who was with God in the beginning? THE WORD and the Word was MADE flesh When was God's WORD made flesh? T H I N K   A B O U T   I T Everything that comes out of the mouth of God is HIS WORD – TRUTH If you want to run with what the christian world believe, go for it.  For I tell you now, there are not many that understand the scriptures they quote. Truth makes sense Confusion doesn't truth is logical confusion is false doctrine and false doctrine is lies I'm weary of your snarly remarks produce your case please give scripture and some logic too please insults and accusations will get you no-where I thought you were genuine? J42 I agree but the rule will be for every scripture presented an explanation is required with another scripture , not with opinions, and if one scripture does not line up with any presentation we have to bring another scripture to support the first scripture or a third one and so on, if you accept this condition i am yours and even Mike ,t8,and Georg, so let go to what MIKE as made ” thread called “For Wakeup”. so see you there, Pierre

Yes Pierre

But we don't have enough room to quote the whole bible in here!

and when we do spoon feed you,
we get attacked for writing long essays
and if we keep it short
you say, not enough information
and when we provide scripture
you say
lies
you people can't be pleased
always complaining
nothing ever good enough

If some could say, “please provide scripture,
so I can look it up for myself,
to see if you're telling the truth”
instead of warning the thirsty
with accusations that the messenger
is telling lies and speaking crap
then that would be the right way to go about it.

Some of you forget your manners
and don't take into consideration
that some of us are well armed
and you treat us as outcasts
like the way they treated the appostles

The Lord sent some to you
can you not see it?
Soak in what you can
for some won't be here with you for too long.
The Lord is rounding up all that is his
and the hungry will hear
you will not be resurrected unless you have
the holy spirit in you
the spirit of truth

Some don't go for new converts, the unbelievers
but some are sent to sharpen the brothers
all part of that same tree
called for a specific purpose

The ark is still opened
but only for a short while
there is a cut off period
do you know when?

I will see you on that other post then
and you are sincerely in my prayers Pierre

Sorry Toby
for distracting the topic
I'm signing off here with Pierre

[toby]

Quote (journey42 @ Feb. 06 2012,11:52)

Sorry Toby for distracting the topic

Journey, no problem.

[NickHassan]

Hi J,
All will be raised.
But the first resurrection precedes the second [unto judgement] by 1000 years.

[Author]

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