The bodies of satan, demons, and angels

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2013,20:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2013,06:44) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 31 2013,18:13) Mike, You do not believe angels are non-corporeal beings. I believe angels are spirits who possess spiritual bodies.  The standard definition of “non-corporeal” is useless when discussing things not of this world.  I've listed examples where that word doesn't even always apply when discussing certain things that ARE of this world. Kerwin, is it possible that angels ARE spirits, like the scriptures say?  And that they have spiritual bodies, like the scriptures say?  And that just because human beings can't readily SEE those bodies doesn't mean they aren't bodies? Mike, You are using an English definition of spirit that may not be supported  by the Koine Greek word that it is translated to.  The lexicons I have read are vague or even more vague about the meanings.

I asked you a direct question, Kerwin.  And once again, as usual, you decided not to answer it in a direct manner.  

Did you know that one of the definitions of “spiritual” is “that which belongs to a spirit”?  Did you know that definition is from Thayer's Lexicon?  So maybe you're reading the wrong lexicons.

A “spiritual body” is “a body which belongs to a spirit”.  Paul contrasts “spiritual body” against the “natural body” we received from the first Adam. He says we will receive a “spiritual body” and be “like those of heaven”.

And about the word “spiritual”, Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words says:

(a)the angelic hosts, lower than God but higher in the scale of being than man in his natural state, are 'spiritual hosts,' Eph 6:12;

(i) the resurrection body of the dead in Christ is 'spiritual,' i.e., such as is suited to the heavenly environment, 1Cr 15:44;

Notice how Vine also contrasts the “spiritual” state of angelic hosts against the “natural” state of man.

I could probably quote hundreds of scholars who understand this simple concept, Kerwin.  But would it do any good?

[2besee]

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2013,00:07)

2Besse Salvation comes from truth. The basics can be found in all versions, but it when it comes to the finer details, the newer versions will not reveal. Can you spot the difference?  And then tell me why I think it's my right to question. KJV HOSEA 11:12   Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints. NIV HOSEA 11:12  Ephraim has surrounded me with lies, Israel with deceit. And Judah is unruly against God, even against the faithful Holy One.

Journey, yes, so that is an error. But most translations have translated it correctly.

If it is a major PROBLEM then regardless of which translation we have, the spirit of God will lead us to CHECK, when something is not right.

That also goes for the KJV which has errors.

I guess it goes to show… Do we trust the “letter” 100%, or God.

[2besee]

The very fact that the KJV and a few others WRONGLY TRANSLATED the word evil, in crucial parts of scripture, puts me off the KJV as a choice. But, if one has the KJV, and cannot get another version, then the spirit should lead them away from that error of thinking.

[Wakeup]

Quote (2besee @ Nov. 04 2013,10:20)

The very fact that the KJV and a few others WRONGLY TRANSLATED the word evil, in crucial parts of scripture, puts me off the KJV as a choice. But, if one has the KJV, and cannot get another version, then the spirit should lead them away from that error of thinking.

2Besee.

I have found no errors in the kjv.
All is in harmony.
The error must be in the reader.
God has the power to preserve His Word;
for us to seek in confidence.

The words used are very unique,
It goes through my bone and marrow.

wakeup.

[journey42]

The translators of the KJV were so corrupt, they implied that whoever believed in Jesus has everlasting life.

But man who studies the bible in a college knows better.  Yes the same men who make profit from publishing new bibles did not think it was necessary to state exactly who you have to believe in to have everlasting life.  Just believe, and you will have everlasting life.
Believe in who?

KJV
John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

NIV
John 6:47   Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life.

NLV
John 6:47   I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life.

ESV
John 6:47   Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

NASB
John 6:47   Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

HCSB
John 6:47   I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life.

Net Bible
John 6:47  I tell you the solemn truth, the one who believes has eternal life.

Gods Word Bible
John 6:47   I can guarantee this truth: Every believer has eternal life.

ASB
John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

ERV
John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life.

That was very wicked of the KJV translators to imply that we have to believe IN CHRIST to have everlasting life,
for they have offended Muslems, Budists, Krishna's, and the NWO who want us to believe in ….their leader who is soon to show his face – The False Prophet.

[Wakeup]

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2013,11:57)

The translators of the KJV were so corrupt, they implied that whoever believed in Jesus has everlasting life. But man who studies the bible in a college knows better.  Yes the same men who make profit from publishing new bibles did not think it was necessary to state exactly who you have to believe in to have everlasting life.  Just believe, and you will have everlasting life. Believe in who? KJV John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. NIV John 6:47   Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. NLV John 6:47   I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life. ESV John 6:47   Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. NASB John 6:47   Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. HCSB John 6:47   I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life. Net Bible John 6:47  I tell you the solemn truth, the one who believes has eternal life. Gods Word Bible John 6:47   I can guarantee this truth: Every believer has eternal life. ASB John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life. ERV John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life. That was very wicked of the KJV translators to imply that we have to believe IN CHRIST to have everlasting life, for they have offended Muslems, Budists, Krishna's, and the NWO who want us to believe in ….their leader who is soon to show his face – The False Prophet.

Journey42.

Those are these kind of people.

Matthew 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

wakeup.

[journey42]

kerwin,Nov. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

KJV – Published in 1611 Psalm 119:160   Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. NIV – Published in the 1970's Psalm 119:160   All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.

Quote

There are significant differences between the two but this is not one.  If there is any flaw it is the word “beginning” in the KJV as God's Word has been true since eternity, there is no beginning point at which is was true.

John 1:1   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 

Quote

Interpretation makes them both true as you can say that the KJV  is speaking of the beginning of creation and it is silent of the time before.  The NIV's choice covers from eternity to eternity.

We have a beginning when the heavens and the earth were created.  We know God had no beginning, but there was a beginning when creation started.  So the Word BEGINNING is important, for it corresponds to John 1:1.

Quote

Note: That is not the edition that was published in 1611.  It is an edited version, most likely from the 19th Century.

 
Can you show me where I can view online please if you know?  I'd like to compare.

[journey42]

Kerwin,

If that was the case, then why didn't the new age translators re-translate John 1:1 to say from eternal?

[terraricca]

j42

here you can read the 1611 version ;http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1611-Bible/book.php?book=Hosea&chapter=11&verse=12

[journey42]

Kerwin

Doesn't this show that the New Age Translators are using Private interpretation?  
For they are translating what they think they know (that God is Eternal) and not realising that creation had a beginning.  Not God, but creation?

2 Peter 1:20   Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

[2besee]

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2013,13:57)

The translators of the KJV were so corrupt, they implied that whoever believed in Jesus has everlasting life. But man who studies the bible in a college knows better.  Yes the same men who make profit from publishing new bibles did not think it was necessary to state exactly who you have to believe in to have everlasting life.  Just believe, and you will have everlasting life. Believe in who? KJV John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. NIV John 6:47   Very truly I tell you, the one who believes has eternal life. NLV John 6:47   I tell you the truth, anyone who believes has eternal life. ESV John 6:47   Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life. NASB John 6:47   Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life. HCSB John 6:47   I assure you: Anyone who believes has eternal life. Net Bible John 6:47  I tell you the solemn truth, the one who believes has eternal life. Gods Word Bible John 6:47   I can guarantee this truth: Every believer has eternal life. ASB John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life. ERV John 6:47   Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life. That was very wicked of the KJV translators to imply that we have to believe IN CHRIST to have everlasting life, for they have offended Muslems, Budists, Krishna's, and the NWO who want us to believe in ….their leader who is soon to show his face – The False Prophet.

Journey, Why are you picking and choosing? As if the KJV is the ONLY correct version with that one verse?

Why don't you mention the others too?
Are you of the (so called) KJV only cult? Because it seems to be an obsession.

King James Bible
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that
believeth on me hath everlasting life.

International Standard Version
Truly, I tell all of you emphatically, the one
who believes in me has eternal life.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Timeless truth I speak to you: 'Whoever
trusts in me has eternal life.'”

Jubilee Bible 2000
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes
in me has eternal life.

King James 2000 Bible
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes
on me has everlasting life.

American King James Version
Truly, truly, I say to you, He that believes on
me has everlasting life.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Amen, amen I say unto you: He that believeth
in me, hath everlasting life.

Darby Bible Translation
Verily, verily, I say to you, He that believes on
me has life eternal.

Webster's Bible Translation
Verily, verily, I say to you, He that believeth
on me hath everlasting life.

World English Bible
Most certainly, I tell you, he who believes in
me has eternal life.

Young's Literal Translation
'Verily, verily, I say to you, He who is
believing in me, hath life age-during;

21st Century King James Version
Verily, verily I say unto you, He that
believeth in Me hath everlasting life.

Amplified Bible (AMP)
I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, he
who believes in Me [who adheres to, trusts
in, relies on, and has faith in Me] has (now
possesses) eternal

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
I tell you for certain that everyone who
has faith in me has eternal life.

Plenty more but need I go on?
Plus, you are taking it out of context.

My RSV has what you call wrong, but look at the context. Anyone would know who we are to believe in.

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of
life; he who comes to me shall not hunger,
and he who believes in me shall never
thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have
seen me and yet do not believe. 37 All that
the Father gives me will come to me; and
him who comes to me I will not cast out.
38 For I have come down from heaven, not
to do my own will, but the will of him who
sent me; 39 and this is the will of him who
sent me, that I should lose nothing of all
that he has given me, but raise it up at the
last day. 40 For this is the will of my
Father, that every one who sees the Son and
believes in him should have eternal life;
and I will raise him up at the last day.”
41 The Jews then murmured at him,
because he said, “I am the bread which
came down from heaven.” 42 They said, “Is
not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose
father and mother we know? How does he
now say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
43 Jesus answered them, “Do not murmur
among yourselves. 44 No one can come to
me unless the Father who sent me draws
him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they
shall all be taught by God.’ Every one who
has heard and learned from the Father
comes to me. 46 Not that any one has seen
the Father except him who is from God; he
has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to
you, he who believes has eternal life. 48 I
am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the
manna in the wilderness, and they died.
50 This is the bread which comes sown
from heaven, that a man may eat of it and
not die. 51 I am the living bread which
came down from heaven; if any one eats of
this bread, he will live for ever; and the
bread which I shall give for the life of the
world is my flesh.

So, no, Journey. Cover your ears, and shake your head, but truth is – there is no perfect translation, the spirit leads us into truth, and what you are doing is (as above).

[2besee]

Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 04 2013,12:31)

2Besee. I have found no errors in the kjv. All is in harmony. The error must be in the reader. God has the power to preserve His Word; for us to seek in confidence. The words used are very unique, It goes through my bone and marrow. wakeup.

Well that's good.

So, why falsely claim that all other Bibles are bad – even evil (is that what you, or Journey is saying?)

That is absolute nonsense!

Wakeup,

[terraricca]

w

Quote

God has the power to preserve His Word;

but he did ,and he did it marvelously ,per ups you do not know what part of the scriptures we really need ,

[journey42]

terraricca,Nov. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

WHEN WAS JUDAH RULETH WITH GOD  AND  FAITHFUL WITH THE SAINTS

Pierre, that is FUTURE.  It hasn't happened yet.  The Saints have not ruled with God yet.  Babylon has been ruling the whole time, oppressing.

Quote

Hos 12:2 The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.KJV Hos 12:2 The LORD has a charge to bring against Judah; he will punish Jacob according to his ways and repay him according to his deeds. NIV

Did not all of Israel fall?  This includes Judah.  

Yes this is what I said, so I am not contradicting myself.

Quote

but that was Judah then, the physical Judah,

Quote

Hos 13:14 “I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death. Where, O death, are your plagues? Where, O grave, is your destruction? SO THIS ALSO IS NOT A PROPHECY BUT FOR THE EARTHLY JUDAH AND ISRAEL PLEASE SHOW THE TIME ,???

This is a prophecy for them back then.  They had not yet been taken over by Assyria. Hosea 13:4 is future thrown in. Future for us now.

Hosea 1:1   The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.

(Read 2kings chapter 18 and 19)

Hosea 13:9   O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help.
Hosea 13:10   I will be thy king: (I WILL RETURN TO BE YOUR KING AGAIN…FUTURE) where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities?  and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes. (Israel wanted a man for their king, and Saul was the first king.)  
Hosea 13:11   I gave thee a king in mine anger and took him away in my wrath (Saul)
Hosea 13:12   The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid. (Ephraim back then)
Hosea 13:13   The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him: he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children. (EPHRAIM WILL EXPERIENCE SORROWS, HE WILL BE SCATTERED OUT OF ISRAEL WHEN THEY GET ATTACKED BY THE ASSYRIANS)
Hosea 13:14   I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (NOW WE HAVE PROPHECY THAT SKIPS TO FUTURE. MILLENIUM. SEE EZEKIEL 37. SEE ALSO ABOVE VERSE 9.  “ISRAEL HAS DESTROYED THYSELF BUT IN ME IS THINE HELP”.  NOT YET…TO COME..FUTURE)
Hosea 13:15   Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels. (GOING BACK TO EPHRAIM NOW. THEY WILL NOT BE FED TRUTH, AND WILL LOOSE THEIR MATERIAL THINGS).
Hosea 13:16   Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.(THIS HAPPENED WHEN THEY WERE ATTACKED BY ASSYRIA. PAST.)

[Wakeup]

Quote (2besee @ Nov. 04 2013,13:11)

Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 04 2013,12:31) 2Besee. I have found no errors in the kjv. All is in harmony. The error must be in the reader. God has the power to preserve His Word; for us to seek in confidence. The words used are very unique, It goes through my bone and marrow. wakeup. Well that's good. So, why falsely claim that all other Bibles are bad – even evil (is that what you, or Journey is saying?) That is absolute nonsense! Wakeup,

Did we say that Besee?
That you are all bad?
Are we here to condemn others;
or to teach?
It does not matter if anyone does not believe.
No man can come to the Father
less the Father draws him.

wakeup.

[journey42]

2besee,Nov. wrote:

[/quote]
2Bessee

I am showing that there are a lot of new versions that don't acknowledge that we have to believe in CHRIST to have eternal life.  These are popular bibles.  Don't you find it disturbing?

Am I of the KJV only cult?
Do you know who invented this stereotype and encouraged this kind of talk?

Now can you answer me this please?

Psalms 12:6   The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.

Does this sound like to you that his Word is something pretty light?  that would be lost to the gentiles for four generations?

Quote

So, no, Journey. Cover your ears, and shake your head, but truth is – there is no perfect translation, the spirit leads us into truth, and what you are doing is (as above).

Sorry I can't accept that.  The truth is in his words, and he preserved that for us from GENERATION to GENERATION for all Jews and Gentiles included.
 
I happen to know what the NWO has been up to, and they have subtly watered down the Words of God, and used “their own hand picked experts” to provide false, misleading information and facts.

[journey42]

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2013,13:19)

Quote God has the power to preserve His Word; but he did ,and he did it marvelously ,per ups  you do not know what part of the scriptures we really need ,

We don't pick and choose Pierre. We need ALL the scriptures. Every one of them, for all generations. They are all bound together. God's work. One book. To make it easy for us to cross reference. That's how we should be seeking. From the book.

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2013,10:41)

terraricca,Nov. wrote: [/quote] Quote WHEN WAS JUDAH RULETH WITH GOD  AND  FAITHFUL WITH THE SAINTS Pierre, that is FUTURE.  It hasn't happened yet.  The Saints have not ruled with God yet.  Babylon has been ruling the whole time, oppressing. Quote Hos 12:2 The LORD hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.KJV Hos 12:2 The LORD has a charge to bring against Judah; he will punish Jacob according to his ways and repay him according to his deeds. NIV Did not all of Israel fall?  This includes Judah.   Yes this is what I said, so I am not contradicting myself. Quote but that was Judah then, the physical Judah, Quote Hos 13:14 “I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death. Where, O death, are your plagues? Where, O grave, is your destruction? SO THIS ALSO IS NOT A PROPHECY BUT FOR THE EARTHLY JUDAH AND ISRAEL PLEASE SHOW THE TIME ,??? This is a prophecy for them back then.  They had not yet been taken over by Assyria. Hosea 13:4 is future thrown in. Future for us now. Hosea 1:1   The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel. (Read 2kings chapter 18 and 19) Hosea 13:9   O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself; but in me is thine help. Hosea 13:10   I will be thy king: (I WILL RETURN TO BE YOUR KING AGAIN…FUTURE) where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities?  and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes. (Israel wanted a man for their king, and Saul was the first king.)   Hosea 13:11   I gave thee a king in mine anger and took him away in my wrath (Saul) Hosea 13:12   The iniquity of Ephraim is bound up; his sin is hid. (Ephraim back then) Hosea 13:13   The sorrows of a travailing woman shall come upon him: he is an unwise son; for he should not stay long in the place of the breaking forth of children. (EPHRAIM WILL EXPERIENCE SORROWS, HE WILL BE SCATTERED OUT OF ISRAEL WHEN THEY GET ATTACKED BY THE ASSYRIANS) Hosea 13:14   I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes. (NOW WE HAVE PROPHECY THAT SKIPS TO FUTURE. MILLENIUM. SEE EZEKIEL 37. SEE ALSO ABOVE VERSE 9.  “ISRAEL HAS DESTROYED THYSELF BUT IN ME IS THINE HELP”.  NOT YET…TO COME..FUTURE) Hosea 13:15   Though he be fruitful among his brethren, an east wind shall come, the wind of the LORD shall come up from the wilderness, and his spring shall become dry, and his fountain shall be dried up: he shall spoil the treasure of all pleasant vessels. (GOING BACK TO EPHRAIM NOW. THEY WILL NOT BE FED TRUTH, AND WILL LOOSE THEIR MATERIAL THINGS). Hosea 13:16   Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.(THIS HAPPENED WHEN THEY WERE ATTACKED BY ASSYRIA. PAST.)

j42

those comments are your stories not God's revelation to his prophets ,

and like I said before ;God's view seems to be out of your reach ,

lack of truth in God's plan

[terraricca]

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 04 2013,17:51)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 04 2013,13:19) Quote God has the power to preserve His Word; but he did ,and he did it marvelously ,per ups  you do not know what part of the scriptures we really need , We don't pick and choose Pierre.  We need ALL the scriptures.  Every one of them, for all generations.  They are all bound together.  God's work.  One book. To make it easy for us to cross reference.  That's how we should be seeking.  From the book.

j42

you really do not know the scriptures in the deep ,

not all books are there we know some are missing ,but this is not what i am talking about ;

but you should read the all scriptures ,and listen to it ,not with what you have already predetermined in your mind and heart ,about men's way

[2besee]

Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 04 2013,22:37)

Quote (2besee @ Nov. 04 2013,13:11) Quote (Wakeup @ Nov. 04 2013,12:31) 2Besee. I have found no errors in the kjv. All is in harmony. The error must be in the reader. God has the power to preserve His Word; for us to seek in confidence. The words used are very unique, It goes through my bone and marrow. wakeup. Well that's good. So, why falsely claim that all other Bibles are bad – even evil (is that what you, or Journey is saying?) That is absolute nonsense! Wakeup, Did we say that Besee? That you are all bad? Are we here to condemn others; or to teach? It does not matter if anyone does not believe. No man can come to the Father less the Father draws him. wakeup.

Wakeup,
I did not say that. Please try reading things correctly, before you answer.
BIBLES, except the KJV. Not people, I didn't say people.
So isn't that what you say: that all other BIBLE (versions) are of evil – I'm sure I saw you, or Journey say that somewhere?

We are called and drawn to scripture.
It is God's tool to speak to us.
Whichever Bible(s) we become used to is for us, all different.
When we try to read scriptures from another version, it can seem odd to us.
NOT that it is wrong – just not what we are used to.
A few versions may be deliberately manipulated to match a view (such as the JWs version) but they are not (from what I have seen) widely available.
Most translations are accurate enough for what we need, and if there are errors, we will, hopefully, be shown.

It's as simple as that.
Nothing more I can say.

Except that God has no part in “evil”.
Try looking up what the word evil means, and then look up what the word should be (ra = adversity; calamity) and adjust your view, if your are able to.

[Author]

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